Student Protests

11 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
am totally disgusted and I wholly condemn such disgraceful behaviour. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.

Really? If I have a view on something I have a view on it for a number of reasons. Someone rioting in London in support of that view or against that view wont change my opinion on the matter. I dont really care what a few people in minority do its not as though every student in the UK is in London rioting.
I dont actually support their cause but if I did this would not change my view point.
Adressing the rest of the thread. I dont actually have a problem with paying tax for higher education if There were a lot of changes made. Uni is too much of a holiday. Courses need to be cut to more essential courses and the amount of years a course takes needs to be severely shortened and intensified. I dont mind paying for a student to go to uni and train for XXXXXX job thats useful to society or mankind in an intense learning environment. What you get right now is students doing wanky courses of no use to anyone other than them and even thats debatable. Students going to uni just so they dont have to go to work for another three years and they fancy a bit of a party. Still on the streets drunk at 7am and going to lectures. Having a learning life experience which includes a university employee who visits three times a week and cleans your cooker and toilet confused

??: All of those I wouldn't pay tax for biggrin

Yes really! I support the right for peaceful protest, but I do not support violence.
I strongly feel that to keep the general public behind a cause and with the hope of gaining more support you must keep the moral high ground
I also think that many people feel the same way, it is very easy to loose support for a cause by behaving outside of the law. If the protest had gone off as intended we would be talking about what the students feel is important, as would the media, but instead we and the media are talking of there poor behaviour

11 Nov 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
am totally disgusted and I wholly condemn such disgraceful behaviour. I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.

Really? If I have a view on something I have a view on it for a number of reasons. Someone rioting in London in support of that view or against that view wont change my opinion on the matter. I dont really care what a few people in minority do its not as though every student in the UK is in London rioting.
I dont actually support their cause but if I did this would not change my view point.
Adressing the rest of the thread. I dont actually have a problem with paying tax for higher education if There were a lot of changes made. Uni is too much of a holiday. Courses need to be cut to more essential courses and the amount of years a course takes needs to be severely shortened and intensified. I dont mind paying for a student to go to uni and train for XXXXXX job thats useful to society or mankind in an intense learning environment. What you get right now is students doing wanky courses of no use to anyone other than them and even thats debatable. Students going to uni just so they dont have to go to work for another three years and they fancy a bit of a party. Still on the streets drunk at 7am and going to lectures. Having a learning life experience which includes a university employee who visits three times a week and cleans your cooker and toilet confused

??: All of those I wouldn't pay tax for biggrin

Yes really! I support the right for peaceful protest, but I do not support violence.
I strongly feel that to keep the general public behind a cause and with the hope of gaining more support you must keep the moral high ground
I also think that many people feel the same way, it is very easy to loose support for a cause by behaving outside of the law. If the protest had gone off as intended we would be talking about what the students feel is important, as would the media, but instead we and the media are talking of there poor behaviour
By your way of thinking we should all still be paying poll tax then lol

People rioted about that so we lost the morale high ground and should of backed off and stumped up Poll tax. Not likely, there always some dipstick who will smash a window they are only ever a small proportion of the overall movement.
Yes people are talking about the student behavior but I do believe that only highlights the issue, people will always ask what this is about. I also think the government dont come out of this smelling of roses either. Most people I have spoken too around work and elsewhere today think this is only the start with all the other cuts to come and are seeing this as a return to the old Tory Britain.

11 Nov 2010

And where were rent-a-mob when their beloved Labour party broke an election manifesto promise not to introduce tuition fees in the first place?
Not a murmur if I remember.....
Where were the riots when Labour more than doubled council tax bills.....

11 Nov 2010

Quote by swcpl2005
And where were rent-a-mob when their beloved Labour party broke an election manifesto promise not to introduce tuition fees in the first place?
Not a murmur if I remember.....
Where were the riots when Labour more than doubled council tax bills.....

The students have never been quiet about this. Have been working in the sector for the last 7 years nearly and there are always posters and meetings about this subject. Not that I attend them but I see them all round the building in the student papers etc.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
By your way of thinking we should all still be paying poll tax then People rioted about that so we lost the morale high ground and should of backed off and stumped up Poll tax. Not likely, there always some dipstick who will smash a window they are only ever a small proportion of the overall movement.
Yes people are talking about the student behavior but I do believe that only highlights the issue, people will always ask what this is about. I also think the government dont come out of this smelling of roses either. Most people I have spoken too around work and elsewhere today think this is only the start with all the other cuts to come and are seeing this as a return to the old Tory Britain.

Yes, I did not riot, I liked the poll tax, It suited me very well at the time :thumbup:
I will happily protest within the law, but never condone public unrest.
That was mob rule, law abiding people will have been totally terrified inside that building and that is unacceptable in my view.

12 Nov 2010

I don't think many people really condone violence. what I would like to know or put to the discussion is. If people's peaceful means of demonstrating go unheeded by government, just brushed aside and ignored, changing nothing. How then after all peaceful protests have failed?
The implementation of the poll tax caused quite a stir when it was brought in but nothing was really done until this sort of thing happened

Did this happen because it had an effect on people from all walks of life and in all sorts of occupations? I think it's worth considering.
Because students are only one section of society then is it possible that a lot of other sections of society are thinking "Who gives a flying f*ck" it doesn't make a difference to my life at this point in time. It hasn't the mass appeal and effect of things such as the poll tax had.
As for any conspiracy I don't think that's the case although maybe the powers that be rubbed their hands together and gurgled in glee at the press opportunity that presented itself and jumped full on the bandwagon.
I don't condone violence although as an end resort... I can see the point.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
By your way of thinking we should all still be paying poll tax then People rioted about that so we lost the morale high ground and should of backed off and stumped up Poll tax. Not likely, there always some dipstick who will smash a window they are only ever a small proportion of the overall movement.
Yes people are talking about the student behavior but I do believe that only highlights the issue, people will always ask what this is about. I also think the government dont come out of this smelling of roses either. Most people I have spoken too around work and elsewhere today think this is only the start with all the other cuts to come and are seeing this as a return to the old Tory Britain.

Yes, I did not riot, I liked the poll tax, It suited me very well at the time :thumbup:
I will happily protest within the law, but never condone public unrest.
That was mob rule, law abiding people will have been totally terrified inside that building and that is unacceptable in my view.
Missed the point by a country mile Blue. You said you loose support for a cause when people riot. I believe in causes because I have looked at information and made a decision. If someone else wants to riot about that it wont change my view point on it that would be ridiculous.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by Lost
I don't think many people really condone violence. what I would like to know or put to the discussion is. If people's peaceful means of demonstrating go unheeded by government, just brushed aside and ignored, changing nothing. How then after all peaceful protests have failed?

Thankfully, we live in a democracy where we are governed by the rule of law and the ballot box not by the gun or by mobs roaming the streets.
There is a democratic process by which Government is held to account and it everyone's right to make their voice heard - peacefully. It is an unfortunate fact of life that one man's meat is another's poison and so it is impossible to please everyone all of the time. The Students were perfectly entitled to voice their concerns in a peaceful way and to lobby their MP to try influence his understanding of matters in the hope that he might vote in the opposition lobby. The debate in the chamber of the House and in Committee also provides opportunities for the legislature to make up their minds before the matter is voted on. It then goes to the upper House before receiving Royal Assent. The Lords have in the past sent legislation back to the lower House to think again and so it is that democracy is served.
In the end, the legislature is bound to do what is best for the Country, not just sections of it. Some people will naturally be disaffected but that is the way the Rule of Law works here. The more vociferous few should not necessarily overrule the silent majority and it the purpose of Parliament to champion the cause of right as much as any other.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
By your way of thinking we should all still be paying poll tax then People rioted about that so we lost the morale high ground and should of backed off and stumped up Poll tax. Not likely, there always some dipstick who will smash a window they are only ever a small proportion of the overall movement.
Yes people are talking about the student behavior but I do believe that only highlights the issue, people will always ask what this is about. I also think the government dont come out of this smelling of roses either. Most people I have spoken too around work and elsewhere today think this is only the start with all the other cuts to come and are seeing this as a return to the old Tory Britain.

Yes, I did not riot, I liked the poll tax, It suited me very well at the time :thumbup:
I will happily protest within the law, but never condone public unrest.
That was mob rule, law abiding people will have been totally terrified inside that building and that is unacceptable in my view.
Missed the point by a country mile Blue. You said you loose support for a cause when people riot. I believe in causes because I have looked at information and made a decision. If someone else wants to riot about that it wont change my view point on it that would be ridiculous.
I don't think I have missed the point at all, If one is very much into what people are protesting for then you may remain in support, but however, if you are not, it is easy to loose support for a cause when people use irresponsible methods, particularly if it drags on for a long time.
Here is my quote; I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
As I said, I can not support people once they have turned to violence

12 Nov 2010

Quote by Lost
I don't think many people really condone violence. what I would like to know or put to the discussion is. If people's peaceful means of demonstrating go unheeded by government, just brushed aside and ignored, changing nothing. How then after all peaceful protests have failed?
I don't condone violence although as an end resort... I can see the point.

I marched many times, in London and towns in Dorset to try and protect the right for people to hunt with hounds and protect many jobs. Sadly we did not stop the bill becoming law, using the above logic we should have resulted to violence, But we did not, and I feel we would have lost much of the public support that we had, if people had done so.
As it was the hunting campaign gained much support and worked as a massive recruiting exercise for the hunts, more people hunt now than before the ban! Luckily the hunting ban has proved unenforceable.

12 Nov 2010

Down the ages many protests have turned violent, but once the change has come about people forget the violence.
For instance "Votes for Women", there was a lot of damage done to property by the largely middle class women wanting the right to vote. Apparently over one night the Suffragettes broke every window in every shop in Oxford street and set fire to the post boxes and in the context of the time was probably more outrageous that the recent events.
John

12 Nov 2010

Sky news claims someone has been arrested on suspicion of dropping that fire extinguisher from Millbank.
I hope they catch whoever did it, and punish them seriously for it.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by essex34m
Sky news claims someone has been arrested on suspicion of dropping that fire extinguisher from Millbank.
I hope they catch whoever did it, and punish them seriously for it.

I agree, that is thuggish behaviour, but for the grace of god they could have been a much more serious charge

12 Nov 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Sky news claims someone has been arrested on suspicion of dropping that fire extinguisher from Millbank.
I hope they catch whoever did it, and punish them seriously for it.

I agree, that is thuggish behaviour, but for the grace of god they could have been a much more serious charge
I think it should be a charge of attempted murder.

12 Nov 2010

Quote by essex34m
Sky news claims someone has been arrested on suspicion of dropping that fire extinguisher from Millbank.
I hope they catch whoever did it, and punish them seriously for it.

I agree, that is thuggish behaviour, but for the grace of god they could have been a much more serious charge
I think it should be a charge of attempted murder.
Agreed :thumbup:

12 Nov 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
By your way of thinking we should all still be paying poll tax then People rioted about that so we lost the morale high ground and should of backed off and stumped up Poll tax. Not likely, there always some dipstick who will smash a window they are only ever a small proportion of the overall movement.
Yes people are talking about the student behavior but I do believe that only highlights the issue, people will always ask what this is about. I also think the government dont come out of this smelling of roses either. Most people I have spoken too around work and elsewhere today think this is only the start with all the other cuts to come and are seeing this as a return to the old Tory Britain.

Yes, I did not riot, I liked the poll tax, It suited me very well at the time :thumbup:
I will happily protest within the law, but never condone public unrest.
That was mob rule, law abiding people will have been totally terrified inside that building and that is unacceptable in my view.
Missed the point by a country mile Blue. You said you loose support for a cause when people riot. I believe in causes because I have looked at information and made a decision. If someone else wants to riot about that it wont change my view point on it that would be ridiculous.
I don't think I have missed the point at all, If one is very much into what people are protesting for then you may remain in support, but however, if you are not, it is easy to loose support for a cause when people use irresponsible methods, particularly if it drags on for a long time.
Here is my quote; I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
As I said, I can not support people once they have turned to violence
I still think you have. If 10000 people are affected by a cause you initially support. 1000 of those march in London and 200 riot. You stop supporting the cause ditching the 9800 people who did feck all. Nice logic there.

Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Down the ages many protests have turned violent, but once the change has come about people forget the violence.
For instance "Votes for Women", there was a lot of damage done to property by the largely middle class women wanting the right to vote. Apparently over one night the Suffragettes broke every window in every shop in Oxford street and set fire to the post boxes and in the context of the time was probably more outrageous that the recent events.
John

Rightly or wrongly there are some events in history where the violent act was necessary to highlight the cause and make the change. The one you have mentioned above for starters and the Poll tax riots for another. I believe the Poll tax would have remained had it not been for the riots.

13 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
Rightly or wrongly there are some events in history where the violent act was necessary to highlight the cause and make the change. The one you have mentioned above for starters and the Poll tax riots for another. I believe the Poll tax would have remained had it not been for the riots.

And I believe that many would have been better off with the "poll tax" as opposed to what replaced it...

13 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
Rightly or wrongly there are some events in history where the violent act was necessary to highlight the cause and make the change. The one you have mentioned above for starters and the Poll tax riots for another. I believe the Poll tax would have remained had it not been for the riots.

Indeed. This idea that the freedoms we enjoy were won by patient negotion using the 'democratic' structures in place is nonsense. Even the most cursory reading of history will tell you that, won't it Tweeky? ;)
The vast majority of the freedoms we enjoy were taken by force. I don't like violence, but I find it somewhat ironic that some of the people who enjoy the freedoms we have and are vocal in their defence of them sometimes seem not to understand how they were won in the first place?
N x x x ;)

13 Nov 2010

Quote by tweeky
I still think you have. If 10000 people are affected by a cause you initially support. 1000 of those march in London and 200 riot. You stop supporting the cause ditching the 9800 people who did feck all. Nice logic there.

I do understand your point, and will agree you make a valid point. But I can only say the way I feel.
I will try to explain my thoughts in a more clear way. If you have strong thoughts on an issue weather that be for it or against it, a few people who upset the apple cart will not effect your strong views. However there will be millions of people who may not fall in either camp, or just do not care either way.
These people will see bad behaviour and make up their minds over the media storm rather than the real issues that will be important to those who marched/protested peacefully.
I look back at the minors strike in the 80s and for many who did not live in mining areas and had to listen to the constant reports of violence and rioting, we soon lost sympathy for them.
When I was marching and campaigning for hunting I was very aware that those who fully support or fully appose hunting will never have their views changed no matter how much you debate with them, the people you are aiming at are the ones who have not made up their mind yet. For that reason I felt behaviour and first impressions are paramount.
In my view public support is the all important edge you require, I feel if you do not have this no one in power will ever listen. To gain and keep that support, good behaviour is a must.

13 Nov 2010

These people will see bad behaviour and make up their minds over the media storm rather than the real issues that will be important to those who marched/protested peacefully.

Only if they have no conception whatsoever of context or simple arithmetic, and rely on the Red Tops to tell them what to believe? confused

N x x x ;)

13 Nov 2010

I do understand your point, and will agree you make a valid point. But I can only say the way I feel.
I will try to explain my thoughts in a more clear way. If you have strong thoughts on an issue weather that be for it or against it, a few people who upset the apple cart will not effect your strong views. However there will be millions of people who may not fall in either camp, or just do not care either way.
These people will see bad behaviour and make up their minds over the media storm rather than the real issues that will be important to those who marched/protested peacefully.
I look back at the minors strike in the 80s and for many who did not live in mining areas and had to listen to the constant reports of violence and rioting, we soon lost sympathy for them.
When I was marching and campaigning for hunting I was very aware that those who fully support or fully appose hunting will never have their views changed no matter how much you debate with them, the people you are aiming at are the ones who have not made up their mind yet. For that reason I felt behaviour and first impressions are paramount.
In my view public support is the all important edge you require, I feel if you do not have this no one in power will ever listen. To gain and keep that support, good behaviour is a must.

Then as a Hunt supporter, did you change your mind and stop supporting Hunting with foxes after the incident shown below?
15 September 2004: Ferry and seven other pro-hunting protesters illegally entered the House of Commons Chamber in protest at anti-hunting legislation. After the protest, armed police were temporarily placed at all entrances to the chamber — the first time MPs have had such a guard. After a short adjournment, the House then went on to approve the Bill by a majority of 356 to 166. All eight (Ferry, 22, Shrewsbury; Luke Tomlinson, 27, Gloucestershire; David Redvers, 34, Gloucestershire; Richard Wakeham, 36, York; Nicholas Wood, 41, Wiltshire; John Holiday, 37, Herefordshire; Robert Thame, 35, Berkshire and Andrew Elliot, 42, Herefordshire) were convicted of offences under the Public Order Act 1986 and each fined £350 and given 18-month conditional discharges.
As Neil has said, just about every major change in human history had some degree of violence attached to it. I'd say it's because of human nature that the violence occurs and as human nature is very difficult to alter then I'd say the pattern will stay the same.
John

13 Nov 2010

Quote by bluexxx
I don't condone violence, even if it is directed against the Tories.
And, yes the violence today has distracted from the real cause, and has given the real cause a negative slant that we did not want.
However, I want to just reply to this point, if I may.

As an ordinary tax payer I do not wish to pay for higher education. If you wish to go on to higher education you will have to pay for it, sounds far to me.

So, as an ordinary tax payer, you do not wish to benefit from higher education?
If so, when you are ill you do not wish to be treated by medical professionals who have received university education?
You do not wish your children to be taught by teaching professionals who have received a university education?
You do not wish to be protected by people in the police and legal institutions who have received a university education?
You do not wish to benefit from research and technological advances from those who have received a university education?
I could go on, but I think I have made my point.
Modern society cannot exist without higher education. We all, in modern society, benefit from those who have been to university. Every day. We may not realise it but we do. As tax payers, we should pay for services that benefit society - that includes the education necessary to keep society running.
And it must be remembered that not everyone who gets a degree is highly paid yet who benefit society greatly.
That is all.
Blue whilst I see your point to a degree, most of the professions you have mentioned are public sector workers which are then paid by the tax payers, although provide a good service will not get the UK out of the problems it is in.
For that we have to look at the private sector and businesses for employment.
Let’s not forget that some of the largest UK business men have not had a higher education that has been funded by Tax Payers.

13 Nov 2010

Following on from the last post some funny thoughts I was having last night. In 1992 I trained as a painter decorator on a YT scheme paid for by the government. Not only did I train I got paid to at the top level I think I was on £42 per week including Travel expenses. Similar courses run today you can leave school and train as an electrician, bricky, painter all for free and get paid too. Swap the boot to the other foot and to be a student doing the same thing which is training for your job ultimately. Though to be a student you have to saddle yourself with debt confused

??: When you think about it will a teacher earn more than a decent electrician? probably not. When I start to think about it this way I can begin to see more of the Students point of view.

13 Nov 2010

Quote by neilinleeds
These people will see bad behaviour and make up their minds over the media storm rather than the real issues that will be important to those who marched/protested peacefully.

Only if they have no conception whatsoever of context or simple arithmetic, and rely on the Red Tops to tell them what to believe? confused

N x x x ;)
Well, like it or not its a fact

13 Nov 2010

Quote by Geordiecpl2001

I do understand your point, and will agree you make a valid point. But I can only say the way I feel.
I will try to explain my thoughts in a more clear way. If you have strong thoughts on an issue weather that be for it or against it, a few people who upset the apple cart will not effect your strong views. However there will be millions of people who may not fall in either camp, or just do not care either way.
These people will see bad behaviour and make up their minds over the media storm rather than the real issues that will be important to those who marched/protested peacefully.
I look back at the minors strike in the 80s and for many who did not live in mining areas and had to listen to the constant reports of violence and rioting, we soon lost sympathy for them.
When I was marching and campaigning for hunting I was very aware that those who fully support or fully appose hunting will never have their views changed no matter how much you debate with them, the people you are aiming at are the ones who have not made up their mind yet. For that reason I felt behaviour and first impressions are paramount.
In my view public support is the all important edge you require, I feel if you do not have this no one in power will ever listen. To gain and keep that support, good behaviour is a must.

Then as a Hunt supporter, did you change your mind and stop supporting Hunting with foxes after the incident shown below?
15 September 2004: Ferry and seven other pro-hunting protesters illegally entered the House of Commons Chamber in protest at anti-hunting legislation. After the protest, armed police were temporarily placed at all entrances to the chamber --- the first time MPs have had such a guard. After a short adjournment, the House then went on to approve the Bill by a majority of 356 to 166. All eight (Ferry, 22, Shrewsbury; Luke Tomlinson, 27, Gloucestershire; David Redvers, 34, Gloucestershire; Richard Wakeham, 36, York; Nicholas Wood, 41, Wiltshire; John Holiday, 37, Herefordshire; Robert Thame, 35, Berkshire and Andrew Elliot, 42, Herefordshire) were convicted of offences under the Public Order Act 1986 and each fined £350 and given 18-month conditional discharges.
As Neil has said, just about every major change in human history had some degree of violence attached to it. I'd say it's because of human nature that the violence occurs and as human nature is very difficult to alter then I'd say the pattern will stay the same.
John
Firstly this was not a violent act, but in answer to your question I was very disappointed it happened. I did not stop supporting hunting but I would not support what they did.
I have not said anywhere that I would stop supporting a cause but would not support violent protest.
My Quote;
I fully support the right to peacefully protest, but once the thugs turn to violence I soon loose all support.
Whether riots work or not, for me I can not condone it. so often the violence is against other Innocent people, like the innocent people in Milbank Tower going about their lawful everyday work and lives, also the police.

13 Nov 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
Sky news claims someone has been arrested on suspicion of dropping that fire extinguisher from Millbank.
I hope they catch whoever did it, and punish them seriously for it.

I agree, that is thuggish behaviour, but for the grace of god they could have been a much more serious charge
With a precedent being set by another two thugs throwing concrete off a bridge and getting away with murder, as the police could not prove intent.........then don't hold your breath on this one.
Some student union official will be in the press to say that they were not understood and they wouldn't hurt a fly.
Just thankful it missed, but if it hit it would still be manslaughter and them being guilty of a violent criminal act, just like the the other two.
Dave_Notts

14 Nov 2010

firstly let me say.....I do not condone and never will condone violence.
However I said in another thread.....that to watch for a 2011 year of unrest and a summer of riots. So many people will be thrown out of work....they will be fighting for their own and their families survival .... this is not just public sector workers. I work for a large multi national company...or should I say I did !! We had a meeting a week ago and they stated that due to the change in government and its policys they have had a economic projection for the UK done. The answer is they came back with is a double dip recession is forcast for 2011....without doubt. Therefore they have decided to cut their UK work force by 25%. Just so happens one is me. Many more across the country will follow. A large number of people all feeling threatened and scared for their familes future........yep I think you will find these student riots were small fry, to what you are going to see this coming year !!!!

15 Nov 2010

Quote by flower411
I`ve mentioned it before.
When the last government set it`s heart on destroying peoples livlihoods in the countryside there were many protests but they didn`t involve this sort of mindless violence.
Why does it have to involve mindless violence ? And when it does shouldn`t the police deal with it like for like ?
We either have a democracy or we have rule of the mob but you can bet your life the members of the violent mobs would soon come bleating to the authorities if they got hurt by somebody fighting back. It`s pathetic, the way these people think they can throw their toys out of their prams because they are not getting their own way.
On the radio the other day there was an article about farm workers coming from all over eastern europe to work here because it`s impossible to get English people to do the work. Why won`t they do it ? ......Because it`s hard work and they`d rather sponge off the rest of us !!!

Which is why IDS' new philosophy on making work pay is the right way to go. Even the Labour opposition benches are finding it hard to challenge the plan.

15 Nov 2010

Quote by flower411
On the radio the other day there was an article about farm workers coming from all over eastern europe to work here because it`s impossible to get English people to do the work. Why won`t they do it ? ......Because it`s hard work and they`d rather sponge off the rest of us !!!

Thats not the only part of it though. They also come and do the job for far less meaning employers then want to pay less for the job devaluing the whole sector. Eastern Europeans are quick to take the low pay 45+ hour a week jobs because to them its good money to send home. I'll say right now I wouldn't do it. 45 hour week crap wages, no chance lol

In edit: I once trained for work in a specific field about 5 years ago, the going rate then was £8-£9 an hour for the job. The employment service then brought in a training scheme giving a qualification for that job which lots of Eastern Europeans took. The going rate for that job dropped to £6 and under in the local paper. Ive a friend whos one of the remaining supervisors and he says around 85% of the staff are now Polish or other Eastern Europeans. There are some English left who have worked in the field for years on older contracts but the management like them to leave when possible cus they can change the contract slightly and pay a Eastern European a lot less money. Needless to say I dont work in that field anymore I work where I still get over the £9 an hour.

15 Nov 2010

Posted this on another thread but It's more relevent on this one;
Going back to the discussion on the Police force and the fire extinguisher incident at the student protest,I agree the student was a idiot for doing that,however,I do seem to recall Police officers actually causing the death of a civilian at the G20 protest in London, didn't the Police get let off ?

But of course it's not the first time a civilian has been killed by British Police,there has been many over the years,maybe the most contentious being the Stockwell shooting of Brazilian student Jean Charles de Menezes,who was shot 7 times in the head of the Police force at the time,Ian Blair, gave a VERY misleading press conference to the media,full of lies and half fact a lot of people still think the version they read in the media was the truth,there was no effort from the Police to correct any of this .

CCTV footage

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason for the low Police numbers around Millbank, was deliberate, maybe a protest of sorts over the upcoming cuts in the Police force.
Also the TV news found information from websites and social networking sites, talking about anarchists infiltrating the protest,posted weeks beforehand,why couldn't the Police find the same information,or weren't they looking ?

Are you sure?