Quote by kentswingers777well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
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terrorist alert level raised
Quote by gulsonroad30664well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
Are you really saying that the British Government was responsible for all the deaths on that day?
Quote by Max777well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
Are you really saying that the British Government was responsible for all the deaths on that day?
Seems he is....utter madness.
Luckily enough there is still a level of free speech or otherwise comments like that would have him locked up in the Tower.
People with conspiracy theories like that some would say can be dangerous.
Quote by kentswingers777well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
Are you really saying that the British Government was responsible for all the deaths on that day?
Seems he is....utter madness.
Luckily enough there is still a level of free speech or otherwise comments like that would have him locked up in the Tower.
People with conspiracy theories like that some would say can be dangerous.i have never said who i think was responsible for all the deaths on that day because i do not know. i do know that the information we were given, see home office narrative, does not add up. neither does the government explaination of the death of dr. david kelly. neither do the lies we were told to justify the invasion of iraq. these questions do not make me a dangerous "con spiracy theorist" but it does mean i can think and have a contradictory veiw to that of the government and media. and dangerous to who, liars?
Sex God
Quote by flower411
Did we have the same kind of terrorist alert when the IRA were more active? I can remember the "Be alert" posters, but was there such a fuss? I can't remember for sure.
No we didn`t ...but they were white and Christian
Oh yes we had alerts. Back then the alerts were...how shall I say, non-political. One lone nut did not make a campaign.
As for who the terrorist are, it may be more apt to ask what their connection with America was. The IRA had the passive approval of the USA and sometimes the President was of Irish extraction. American money was very useful, it purchased a lot of weapons.
Know the Americans are 100% behind the 'War on Terror'; we have to expect some hype.
Travis
Sex God
Quote by
Did we have the same kind of terrorist alert when the IRA were more active? I can remember the "Be alert" posters, but was there such a fuss? I can't remember for sure.
No we didn`t ...but they were white and Christian
Oh yes we had alerts. Back then the alerts were...how shall I say, non-political. One lone nut did not make a campaign.
As for who the terrorist are, it may be more apt to ask what their connection with America was. The IRA had the passive approval of the USA and sometimes the President was of Irish extraction. American money was very useful, it purchased a lot of weapons.
Know the Americans are 100% behind the 'War on Terror'; we have to expect some hype.
Travis...................after all we must be seen to do our masters bidding.
It's the same old story, they tell us there is a problem, we react the predicted amount of irrational fear, and the government give us our solution by putting the security services on high alert. I wonder how many of the people they have forced us to live among and forbidden us to say anything against will be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act while we are in this state of high alert? I wonder how long ago MI5 wrote their little shopping list?
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
Quote by gulsonroad30664well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
Are you really saying that the British Government was responsible for all the deaths on that day?
Seems he is....utter madness.
Luckily enough there is still a level of free speech or otherwise comments like that would have him locked up in the Tower.
People with conspiracy theories like that some would say can be dangerous.i have never said who i think was responsible for all the deaths on that day because i do not know. i do know that the information we were given, see home office narrative, does not add up. neither does the government explaination of the death of dr. david kelly. neither do the lies we were told to justify the invasion of iraq. these questions do not make me a dangerous "con spiracy theorist" but it does mean i can think and have a contradictory veiw to that of the government and media. and dangerous to who, liars?
To what home office narrative do you refer?
Sex God
Quote by BrightonGeezer
It's the same old story, they tell us there is a problem, we react the predicted amount of irrational fear, and the government give us our solution by putting the security services on high alert. I wonder how many of the people they have forced us to live among and forbidden us to say anything against will be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act while we are in this state of high alert? I wonder how long ago MI5 wrote their little shopping list?
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
MI5 do not go around arresting people. MI5 like MI6 is an intelligence gathering service. Sometime planting miss-information, but mostly it gathers information.
Special Branch may make some arrests, but they are the Police, with Police Powers.
007 style spying was never spying and was more to do with SOE. Intelligence has always been kept away for the politicians. The most blatant exception being Blair appointing an unexpected new head of MI6, but that was as a reward for his 'report' into weapons of mass destruction.
Before that the job would go to the deputy, even if the job is in theory in the PM's gift.
Travis
Quote by Max777well kenty, like we were all sold a bum steer over global warmin....on the 7th july 2005 the train that the muslim bombers caught to be on the tubes and tavistock square bus that was the only london bus diverted that day, WAS CANCELLED so they could'nt be there and a government commissioned exercise was taking place at exactly the same time at exactly the same locations. but that's all coincidence, and, three weeks later, jean charles demenzies, a sub contract electrician who worked on the underground, is shot by mistake ? kenty, you joined the dots over the global warming scam, now put your critical thinking to further use.
Nice to see some have faith in our security system Bluefish.
I really do not understand that comment...not at all.
Are you really saying that the British Government was responsible for all the deaths on that day?
Seems he is....utter madness.
Luckily enough there is still a level of free speech or otherwise comments like that would have him locked up in the Tower.
People with conspiracy theories like that some would say can be dangerous.i have never said who i think was responsible for all the deaths on that day because i do not know. i do know that the information we were given, see home office narrative, does not add up. neither does the government explaination of the death of dr. david kelly. neither do the lies we were told to justify the invasion of iraq. these questions do not make me a dangerous "con spiracy theorist" but it does mean i can think and have a contradictory veiw to that of the government and media. and dangerous to who, liars?
To what home office narrative do you refer?events of 7th july 2005 of course. there was no court hearing, no judicial enquiry, no coroners report.
Quote by kentswingers777
Ok one life lost which of course is not acceptable, but some would say had he not of ran, or had he of returned home when his visa expired etc etc.
We at that time were on a very high state of alert after I think 52 innocent people were butchered on 7/7, and countless others injured. I really do not know what you think they should have done on that day?
They should have no doubt approached him very calmly in a controlled manner, and asked him ever so nicely if her was carrying anything that was likely to detonate if he pulled the pin. Come on....these guys are trained to kill if need be.
Yes his death was sad but in their eyes after 7/7, he ran and they in that situation opened fire. Remember as far as I know nobody was charged with killing him..or am I wrong?
What about the countless lives the security forces save, when they arrest would be terrorists planning bombing campaigns?
Oh thats ok then
No of course it is not, but I see you fail to answer the rest of my comment though.
So easy for us sitting in our computer chairs to say what we would have done, IF we was in that situation.
None of us can say what we would have done, but their JOB is to protect the public and I believe that is what they thought they were doing under those circumstances, at that particular time.
So are you going to give me an answer to the rest or only answer the bit you had an answer too?contrary to early police reports, it has since been proven beyond all reasonable doupt that de menzies visa had not run out, he was not running, did not have a big coat on with wire hanging out, did not jump any barriers, did not resist arrest, WAS pushed to the ground and 6 bullets fired at point blank range into him ! FACT followed by police apology to his family with compensation and a public apology for having made a mistake ! FACT. join the dots kenty. mi5, mi6 and special branch do not exist to protect the public. they protect the state.
Yeah but you join the dots up to anything and everything. Being open minded and "thinking critically" doesn't just mean automatically rejecting the the official version of events and jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwaggons.
I'm still waiting to see the Home Office narrative that you referred to?
I'm still waiting to see the Home Office narrative that you referred to?
Quote by Max777look it up, its in the public domain. i dont paste and copy.
Yeah but you join the dots up to anything and everything. Being open minded and "thinking critically" doesn't just mean automatically rejecting the the official version of events and jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwaggons.
I'm still waiting to see the Home Office narrative that you referred to?
Quote by gulsonroad30664look it up, its in the public domain. i dont paste and copy.
Yeah but you join the dots up to anything and everything. Being open minded and "thinking critically" doesn't just mean automatically rejecting the the official version of events and jumping on the conspiracy theory bandwaggons.
I'm still waiting to see the Home Office narrative that you referred to?
I have looked up many things and there's nothing that makes me believe any of the tosh that you serve up. That's why I'm asking to see what you are referring to.
Sorry to be pedenatic here but I think a URL on SH (if they are allowed )to documents that are quoted OR an extract from the source document with a reference actually is very useful in setting a balanced context to an argument. I find it boring when I read about a source without knowing how to see it for myself. I have done this myself in the past when I was talking about statistical data I was pulled up quite rightly.
Quote by
It's the same old story, they tell us there is a problem, we react the predicted amount of irrational fear, and the government give us our solution by putting the security services on high alert. I wonder how many of the people they have forced us to live among and forbidden us to say anything against will be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act while we are in this state of high alert? I wonder how long ago MI5 wrote their little shopping list?
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
MI5 do not go around arresting people. MI5 like MI6 is an intelligence gathering service. Sometime planting miss-information, but mostly it gathers information.
Special Branch may make some arrests, but they are the Police, with Police Powers.
007 style spying was never spying and was more to do with SOE. Intelligence has always been kept away for the politicians. The most blatant exception being Blair appointing an unexpected new head of MI6, but that was as a reward for his 'report' into weapons of mass destruction.
Before that the job would go to the deputy, even if the job is in theory in the PM's gift.
Travis
I know MI5 don't go in and make the arrests themselves, they gather the inteligence and send the boys round. I have been there when a late friend of mine was arrested by Special Branch, and some not all of what they had on him was straight from MI5. GCHQ provide a lot for them by tracking comunications, and of course pinpointing your whereabouts from the tracking device on your mobile phone. They new my friend was up north, they probably even knew who was there with him including me. They had the building we were in guarded by uniformed officers while they sat in an unmarked car nearby. As my friend left they simoly followed him for a couple of miles then stopped his car and arrested him. I remember an officer from Lancashire Constabulary stopping me as I left and just calling me by my full name, even my best friends dont know my middle name and it was my first ever visit, I live in Brighton FFS!
It might sound like a Mickey Mouse story to you, but it was bloody scary, and if it is their business to know, then they know already.
Quote by
It's the same old story, they tell us there is a problem, we react the predicted amount of irrational fear, and the government give us our solution by putting the security services on high alert. I wonder how many of the people they have forced us to live among and forbidden us to say anything against will be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act while we are in this state of high alert? I wonder how long ago MI5 wrote their little shopping list?
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
MI5 do not go around arresting people. MI5 like MI6 is an intelligence gathering service. Sometime planting miss-information, but mostly it gathers information.
Special Branch may make some arrests, but they are the Police, with Police Powers.
007 style spying was never spying and was more to do with SOE. Intelligence has always been kept away for the politicians. The most blatant exception being Blair appointing an unexpected new head of MI6, but that was as a reward for his 'report' into weapons of mass destruction.
Before that the job would go to the deputy, even if the job is in theory in the PM's gift.
Travis
The Branch aren't the Branch any more in many areas. Once the Met started moving things round in the 70s (the old X squad went into the Anti Terrorist Branch as a response to the rise of the Provos and the Angry Brigade) the designations changed in various areas. The remains of the Met Branch disappeared into SO15 when it was re-merged with the Anti Terrorist Squad - they're called something like Counter Terrorism Command or somesuch now. There have been mini turf wars between CTC and their regional counterparts as to who does what since the old Branch ethos deteriorated....
SOE went out of existence after WWII - the sort of wet work SOE would have done was taken over by a mix of Six and the various bonkers sections of special forces, with agent running remaining at Six. The difference between Five and Six is not role but geography - Five are supposed to stay within UK borders, although that was always a bit blurred when the six counties was involved, and has become blurred more recently with Five liaison officers frequently going abroad to met their counterparts elsewhere (including Guantanamo). It always was a bit blurred - Six ran the Littlejohns of course, who infiltrated the Stickies while living in the six counties - though the story about the Littlejohns setting up a sticky for a car bomb carried out by Six operatives always struck me as a bit bonkers - it was more likely to be the stickies or the provos taking out a rogue...
Nowadays I'd guess you'd say Five deal with threats within the UK, even if that means going abroad to deal with them. Partly it's about Five doing a lot more on terrorism to justify their existence post cold war - their whole array of anti subversion work became a bit pointless when there was no red menace any more.
Sex God
Quote by awayman
It's the same old story, they tell us there is a problem, we react the predicted amount of irrational fear, and the government give us our solution by putting the security services on high alert. I wonder how many of the people they have forced us to live among and forbidden us to say anything against will be arrested under the prevention of terrorism act while we are in this state of high alert? I wonder how long ago MI5 wrote their little shopping list?
As I said, it's same old same old, and when this government is replaced by that toffee nosed twat Cameron and his chums nothing will change, except maybe the rhetoric.
MI5 do not go around arresting people. MI5 like MI6 is an intelligence gathering service. Sometime planting miss-information, but mostly it gathers information.
Special Branch may make some arrests, but they are the Police, with Police Powers.
007 style spying was never spying and was more to do with SOE. Intelligence has always been kept away for the politicians. The most blatant exception being Blair appointing an unexpected new head of MI6, but that was as a reward for his 'report' into weapons of mass destruction.
Before that the job would go to the deputy, even if the job is in theory in the PM's gift.
Travis
The Branch aren't the Branch any more in many areas. Once the Met started moving things round in the 70s (the old X squad went into the Anti Terrorist Branch as a response to the rise of the Provos and the Angry Brigade) the designations changed in various areas. The remains of the Met Branch disappeared into SO15 when it was re-merged with the Anti Terrorist Squad - they're called something like Counter Terrorism Command or somesuch now. There have been mini turf wars between CTC and their regional counterparts as to who does what since the old Branch ethos deteriorated....
SOE went out of existence after WWII - the sort of wet work SOE would have done was taken over by a mix of Six and the various bonkers sections of special forces, with agent running remaining at Six. The difference between Five and Six is not role but geography - Five are supposed to stay within UK borders, although that was always a bit blurred when the six counties was involved, and has become blurred more recently with Five liaison officers frequently going abroad to met their counterparts elsewhere (including Guantanamo). It always was a bit blurred - Six ran the Littlejohns of course, who infiltrated the Stickies while living in the six counties - though the story about the Littlejohns setting up a sticky for a car bomb carried out by Six operatives always struck me as a bit bonkers - it was more likely to be the stickies or the provos taking out a rogue...
Nowadays I'd guess you'd say Five deal with threats within the UK, even if that means going abroad to deal with them. Partly it's about Five doing a lot more on terrorism to justify their existence post cold war - their whole array of anti subversion work became a bit pointless when there was no red menace any more.
Yes there was a lot of cut backs after WW2, SOE and a number of other special units were cut. It could be said that a whole array of 'wet' functions have been take over by the SAS; sudo wars, anti-terrorist and assistance to friendly nations. However never in the way that the CIA prop up and supported Saddam, Pol Pot and any number of nasties around the world.
Yes the Mets Special Branch has been absloved, but others have not. Each force is indipendant and some retain a Special Branch.
