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Thatcher Child vs Son of Brown

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When Ed Miliband discovered William Hague's comment to a US embassy official, buried within the latest Wikileaks material, that he, Mr Cameron and Chancellor George Osborne were "children of Thatcher" the Labour leader must have thought he had struck gold.
Mr Cameron has spent a lot of time and energy trying to prove that he is not one of Thatcher's children, now here was his trusted Number Two, the foreign secretary, apparently letting the cat out of the bag.
But the prime minister was able to turn the jibe back on Mr Miliband simply by invoking the name of Mr Miliband's old boss at the Treasury and Number 10. I'd rather, said Mr Cameron, be a child of Thatcher than a son of Brown.
Politicians love the "children of....." taunt - conjuring up, as it does, Village of the Damned-style images of blank-eyed young people, imbued with a more concentrated and therefore scarier brand of their parents' ideology.
"Be afraid, be very afraid. They are all Thatcher's children," cried Labour supporting comedian Eddie Izzard during the general election.
It remains to be seen if the term catches on outside the narrow confines of the Westminster Village.
Your views ?
Personally, can we be orphans as wouldn't want to be associated with either
And?
You post things that are current news items, just as a statement - which people will possibly have read anyway if they're interested. Do you want comment, debate or what?
Quote by Freckledbird
And?
You post things that are current news items, just as a statement - which people will possibly have read anyway if they're interested. Do you want comment, debate or what?

Freckle
Would help if when creating this, it hadn't error'd .............again
comment and debate is the intent
Quote by HnS
And?
You post things that are current news items, just as a statement - which people will possibly have read anyway if they're interested. Do you want comment, debate or what?

Freckle
Would help if when creating this, it hadn't error'd .............again
comment and debate is the intent
OK, which bit and what's your viewpoint? For a long time on here, it's been kind of etiquette to post your own viewpoint first, as thread starter.
Freckle
The Poll's not showing (again), but have edit'd in the missing bits.
re etiquette, noted, however always thought better to place the content/subject in and then comment.
If we judge them on how successful a prime minister they were, then Thacher wins hands down.
I started work in 1981, about two years after she took the Torys to power, I personally found her inspirational, so I would be very happy to be a, "Thatcher's child".
Quote by Bluefish2009
If we judge them on how successful a prime minister they were, then Thacher wins hands down.
I started work in 1981, about two years after she took the Torys to power, I personally found her inspirational, so I would be very happy to be a, "Thatcher's child".

based on that format you must think that Tony Blair was the best Prime minister this country ever had then......he turned a ram shackled very left wing labour party into a 3 times elected party....was never defeated at the polls...and was not ousted by his own party....oh..and he never had mass riots on the streets.
Quote by deancannock
If we judge them on how successful a prime minister they were, then Thacher wins hands down.
I started work in 1981, about two years after she took the Torys to power, I personally found her inspirational, so I would be very happy to be a, "Thatcher's child".

based on that format you must think that Tony Blair was the best Prime minister this country ever had then......he turned a ram shackled very left wing labour party into a 3 times elected party....was never defeated at the polls...and was not ousted by his own party....oh..and he never had mass riots on the streets.
only because he banned them (since repealed).
Quote by GnV
If we judge them on how successful a prime minister they were, then Thacher wins hands down.
I started work in 1981, about two years after she took the Torys to power, I personally found her inspirational, so I would be very happy to be a, "Thatcher's child".

based on that format you must think that Tony Blair was the best Prime minister this country ever had then......he turned a ram shackled very left wing labour party into a 3 times elected party....was never defeated at the polls...and was not ousted by his own party....oh..and he never had mass riots on the streets.
only because he banned them (since repealed).
This is correct, even piecful protest's were curtailed and not permitted anywhere near where new Labour felt threatened by them. Anyone with an oppisit veiwpiont were rubbished or silenced. His restrictions on civil libertys were nothing to be proad of.
I feel Tony Blairs legacy is the lies and faulse information he fed us to take us into an illegal war. He lead us into 5 wars and then let Brown starve the troops of resourses and equipment.
I find it very hard to find anything likeable about the man!
and Mrs Thatchers legacy is.....Race Riots in the streets.....Industry sold off or closed down....to the point where we no longer have a manufacturing base.....riots in the streets over the Poll tax....the sight of Yuppies shouting loads of money to the unemployed.....she drove a wedge in this country between the have and have nots. Her own party saw her as a liability and kicked her out.
Whilst we talk about the legality of war......was the direct ordering by Mrs Thatcher of the sinking of the Argintinian boat " The Belgrano " legal????. It was clearly outside the war zone waters......and as was later found to be no more than a cargo ship with innocent sailors on !!
We can make a case for and against any leader. I was no great fan of Blair's either....but if you still have to accept he won three elections.....and was never actually defeated at the polls. He introduced the national min wage...he introduced human rights act and freedom of information act....he helped to oversee and bring peace to Northern Island.
As say..always two sides to every story !!!
Quote by deancannock
It was clearly outside the war zone waters......and as was later found to be no more than a cargo ship with innocent sailors on !!

The General Belgrano was a cruiser. This is a warship.
An exclusion zone is for the benefit of civilian ships sailing in the vicinity. It is not a safe/unsafe area for warships.
The Captain of the General Belgrano and the Argentine Government declared the sinking as legitimate.
Sorry, Dean. The two cannot be compared
Dave_Notts
Quote by deancannock
and Mrs Thatchers legacy is.....Race Riots in the streets.....

I don't recall race riots...
Quote by deancannock
Industry sold off or closed down....to the point where we no longer have a manufacturing base.....

It was the unions who closed the industry and manufacturing base in the UK, not the Thatcher government. It just happened on her shift, so to speak. The unions made UK workers unaffordable so industry champions went elsewhere. Remember "Red Robbo" at the Austin plant in Birmingham and dear old Arfur Scargill?
Quote by deancannock
riots in the streets over the Poll tax....the sight of Yuppies shouting loads of money to the unemployed..... she drove a wedge in this country between the have and have nots. Her own party saw her as a liability and kicked her out.

The "yuppie" culture was an inevitable development following the Union sponsored decimation of British Industry taking the Country closer to a "serviced based" work culture. These young thriving service companies saved Britain from certain death at the time but, of course, was the forerunner to the later collapse of the banking industry (allegedly). As for her departure, like Bliar it was time to go. Three terms in office is unhealthy as the isolation from reality that comes with high office takes its toll.
Quote by deancannock
Whilst we talk about the legality of war......was the direct ordering by Mrs Thatcher of the sinking of the Argintinian boat " The Belgrano " legal????. It was clearly outside the war zone waters......and as was later found to be no more than a cargo ship with innocent sailors on !!

Hmmmm The UK used merchant ships too for troop carrying but that didn't stop the argy bargies firing Exocet missiles at them! During WWII the German U Boats attacked the Arctic Convoys between Russia Iceland and the UK.
Quote by deancannock
We can make a case for and against any leader. I was no great fan of Blair's either....but if you still have to accept he won three elections.....and was never actually defeated at the polls. He introduced the national min wage...he introduced human rights act and freedom of information act....he helped to oversee and bring peace to Northern Island.

As did Margaret Thatcher of course and she was never defeated at the polls either wink
As for the FoI Act, he was also the one who denied the people the right to peaceful protest. A good record on Human Rights? Very debatable that one.
Quote by deancannock
As say..always two sides to every story !!!

Sometimes three :lol2:
Quote by Dave__Notts
It was clearly outside the war zone waters......and as was later found to be no more than a cargo ship with innocent sailors on !!

The General Belgrano was a cruiser. This is a warship.
An exclusion zone is for the benefit of civilian ships sailing in the vicinity. It is not a safe/unsafe area for warships.
The Captain of the General Belgrano and the Argentine Government declared the sinking as legitimate.
Sorry, Dean. The two cannot be compared
Dave_Notts
Dave....As indeed the the wars in Iraq and Afghaistan have now be ratified as legal !! Same as with sinking of the Belgrano.....both dubious in my book...!!!
GNV....your memory is going in your old age mate!!!......there were massive race riots in Brixton and the ones I remember well in Handsworth in Birmingham,...in early 80's.
As for the industry...I do squarly blame Mrs Thatcher. As Have stated before I come from a mining town, and she dicimated the industry. Once again Scargill was not a man I would wish to admire, but in the end lets remember they were not striking for more money, but because Scargill had seen plans to close 85% of the pits down. People rubbished this....we now find he was actually wrong...it was 100% she closed down. Manufacturing industry never has recovered from the Thatcher years.
Quote by deancannock
...it was 100% she closed down. Manufacturing industry never has recovered from the Thatcher years.

Aren't there any pits open now then? She closed every single pit?
no....we import coal from Poland mostly.....we had 6 pits in cannock at its peak.....Littleton Collery was the most productive in Europe....6 months after the strike finished ..Mrs Thatcher closed it.
Quote by deancannock
GNV....your memory is going in your old age mate!!!......there were massive race riots in Brixton and the ones I remember well in Handsworth in Birmingham,...in early 80's.

You're quite right.... a senior moment

I'll get my walking stick...
Quote by deancannock
Dave....As indeed the the wars in Iraq and Afghaistan have now be ratified as legal !! Same as with sinking of the Belgrano.....both dubious in my book...!!!

They may be dubious in your mind Dean but that could be because you thought it was a troop or transport ship. It wasn't, it was a warship that was at sea.
People have this misconception about the 200 mile exclusion zone. It was not a 200 mile zone and we are not allowed to sink yours and you can't sink ours scenario. We were at war. That means that any military, or civilian if it is carrying out military intelligence, ship or aircraft can be engaged.
In this instance a cruiser that was fully armed and within striking distance of the Falklands and the task force was a threat and it got what it deserved. Our countries were at war and if they did not want their ship sunk then they should have left it in dock.
So that is totally different to Iraq and Afghanistan. Mind you I don't condemn him for them either, nor Maggie for the Falklands.
Dave_Notts
Quote by deancannock
no....we import coal from Poland mostly.....we had 6 pits in cannock at its peak.....Littleton Collery was the most productive in Europe....6 months after the strike finished ..Mrs Thatcher closed it.

There are still coal mines open. Have they opened since Mrs. T. was voted out?
The only ones currently open are privately owned...and nothing to do with the National Coal Board....as it was.
Quote by deancannock
The only ones currently open are privately owned...and nothing to do with the National Coal Board....as it was.

... and therefore less attractive to the TU's to get the brothers to down tools at the drop of a hat.
Quote by deancannock
The only ones currently open are privately owned...and nothing to do with the National Coal Board....as it was.

Thankfully it has nothing to do with the NCB.
Nationalised coal mines were a drain on the UKs resources as they were heavily subsidised by the taxpayer and electricity user. There was a monopoly where the power stations could only buy UK coal, that was even when the pits could not compete with other coal producers in price. So we had to pay to keep those fellahs underground keeping an industry going for no other reason than it kept them out of unemployment. Thatcher had to do it to stop us going under.
Dave_Notts
I am not 100% sure we can pin the race riots onto Mrs Thatcher, as she said at the time, "Money cannot buy either trust or racial harmony."
I would agree with Dean on the fact that we can make a case for or against any Prime Minister, It all hinges on who suited our needs at the time. Thatcher was good for me, but not for Dean, Blair was definitely not good for me. :sad:
Quote by GnV
and Mrs Thatchers legacy is.....Race Riots in the streets.....

I don't recall race riots...
Quote by deancannock
Industry sold off or closed down....to the point where we no longer have a manufacturing base.....

It was the unions who closed the industry and manufacturing base in the UK, not the Thatcher government. It just happened on her shift, so to speak. The unions made UK workers unaffordable so industry champions went elsewhere. Remember "Red Robbo" at the Austin plant in Birmingham and dear old Arfur Scargill?
Quote by deancannock
riots in the streets over the Poll tax....the sight of Yuppies shouting loads of money to the unemployed..... she drove a wedge in this country between the have and have nots. Her own party saw her as a liability and kicked her out.

The "yuppie" culture was an inevitable development following the Union sponsored decimation of British Industry taking the Country closer to a "serviced based" work culture. These young thriving service companies saved Britain from certain death at the time but, of course, was the forerunner to the later collapse of the banking industry (allegedly). As for her departure, like Bliar it was time to go. Three terms in office is unhealthy as the isolation from reality that comes with high office takes its toll.
Quote by deancannock
Whilst we talk about the legality of war......was the direct ordering by Mrs Thatcher of the sinking of the Argintinian boat " The Belgrano " legal????. It was clearly outside the war zone waters......and as was later found to be no more than a cargo ship with innocent sailors on !!

Hmmmm The UK used merchant ships too for troop carrying but that didn't stop the argy bargies firing Exocet missiles at them! During WWII the German U Boats attacked the Arctic Convoys between Russia Iceland and the UK.
Quote by deancannock
We can make a case for and against any leader. I was no great fan of Blair's either....but if you still have to accept he won three elections.....and was never actually defeated at the polls. He introduced the national min wage...he introduced human rights act and freedom of information act....he helped to oversee and bring peace to Northern Island.

As did Margaret Thatcher of course and she was never defeated at the polls either wink
As for the FoI Act, he was also the one who denied the people the right to peaceful protest. A good record on Human Rights? Very debatable that one.
Quote by deancannock
As say..always two sides to every story !!!

Edward Heath didn't agree that it was the unions who 'closed down British industry' as his autobiography makes clear. But he wouldn't would he? After all he was a leader of that pro-trade union, Left wing party, the Conservative Party.
Sometimes three :lol2:
Quote by sexyslut79
Edward Heath didn't agree that it was the unions who 'closed down British industry' as his autobiography makes clear. But he wouldn't would he? After all he was a leader of that pro-trade union, Left wing party, the Conservative Party.

... and he hated every fibre of Margaret Thatcher wink
Child of Thatcher and child of Brown - that would be these then.

aka Ignorance and Want. Beware them both, but especially the boy (ignorance).