The bedroom tax

16 Feb 2013

Quote by VoyeurJ
So someone works hard gets success and enjoys his hard work then labour want to tax them for it !! worlds gone mad, it seems like more punishment for success to me. Should be applauding and congratulating them not taxing to give the poor.
Bet the 10p tax isn't for all either. Just seems unfair to me.
J

Absolutely correct Voyeur. It s becoming a crime to work hard and accrue wealth.
Have you noticed that the US economy was in far worse shape than ours but is now well on the way to recovery? US citizens don't have the same social expectations that a Government is responsible for their predicament. The general understanding in the US is that you have full and total responsibility to look after yourself and your family.
In this country we have evolved into a society that is like a broth of easily obtained social expectations, where the government is responsible for everyone and everything. Unfortunately personal responsibility has gone missing and until that train of thought returns to society we will not be moving forward very much at all.
So many threads on this and other websites talk about how unfair life is, how unfair society is and the answer s always easy....
It is the fault of Europe, it is the fault of the foreigners, it is the fault of the Government, it is the fault of the rich....... In fact this train of thought is at the heart of all problems and until we, as a nation, accept 100% personal responsibility for their actions in life then so the wishy washy bollocks of our current society will continue.

16 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple
So someone works hard gets success and enjoys his hard work then labour want to tax them for it !! worlds gone mad, it seems like more punishment for success to me. Should be applauding and congratulating them not taxing to give the poor.

What a bit like get made redundant through no fault of your own, and get a feeble amount of money that is supposed to help you through the hard times? Or then find that you have two spare bedrooms as your kids have grown up and left home after living in that house all of their lives, only then to find out that now you are unfortunately asking for a bit of help, they then say sorry you have to pay us £28 a week out of that paltry amount to pay for your spare rooms? Which now will not leave me enough to pay my essential bills and eat properly. If you cannot afford to pay it then tough, fuck off out of that house you have lived in and helped to build a home for your family through years of hard work, and find a one bedroom flat for the two of you to live in. Fair Voyeur? Don't talk to me about fairness.
Seems like being made redundant through no fault of your own, or falling ill and having to stop work is now a punishment on the poor. Yes it seems unfair to me as well !
Sorry to read about your misfortune stars but doesn't everyones standard tax cover benefits already. So to all intents and purposes successful people are to be double taxed. Just as well it's all just posture and bluster from Labour to score some points as if it would have worked the incompetents would already have incorporated in their 12 years that they almost bankrupted Britain.
Thats just life though for everyone and happens to the rich too stars, if you cant afford to pay you either have to reduce your living costs and move to a house you can afford which would reduce your living costs at the same time, and whats the issue with doing so. Personally I pay a handsome amount monthly to ensure that if I ever did fall ill or receive a terminal illness I would remain on the same annual income and enjoy however long i had left. Falling ill and stopping work is an issue for every class. The punishment is only felt by the ones that didn't plan for it.
You can obviously type and use the web, can you think of any startups that make good income using the same two things? Hope your fortune changes for the better soon there but it would change a lot faster if you stopped relying on the state and made it.
Have a great weekend there
J

16 Feb 2013

Rich people should not have to pay extra tax to help poorer people, stay rich and prosper = IDEAL WORLD
Poor people should work hard to become rich like thier employers = IDEAL WORLD
Poor people struggle, cant earn enough, go on benefits = REAL WORLD
Rich people cannot find any employees to make thier products or people with enough money to buy them and go bankrupt becoming poor = REAL WORLD
The fact is the Rich do live off the poorer people, but that is life, if there were no rich there would be no jobs or products to buy in the first place, someone has to have the money to invest in business.
Some of the rich make me sick, but we can't do without them.
I don't think taxing the rich out of the Country helps, the rich can afford to relocate businesses abroad where tax rates are lower and many already do, we cannot afford to drive all of them away, we cannot afford to make them poor.
Scenario .......
Poor Man earns £1000 per month and pays 25% tax on it ie £250 into the tax coffers
Rich Man earns £10000 per month and would put £2500 into the tax coffers thats more than the poor man, but wait, rich man has to pay 40% tax so actually puts £4000 into the tax coffers, that's a lot more thatn the poor man does.
Ask the rich man to pay 50% or 60% tax and rich man moves his assets abroad.
Better to get his £4000 than nothing at all from him.
Immoral perhaps, Unfair perhaps but it is a sad fact of life that we need those rich people to get richer and be happy here.

16 Feb 2013

Sorry Mids but we make our own life decisions and if you graft and want to climb the pay ladder you can. But not if you accept and moan about how life is unfair and not ideal.
More wealthy people didnt become so by paying silly amounts of tax on earnings. Even so we still pay over our careers a substantial amount more than the bottom level pay roles. Its not immoral its just being clever and maximising your income to maximise your lifestyle and that of your children's.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact
How do the rich live off the poor too? We need everyone to stop making excuses, get out to retrain or get to work and deserve better pay and lifestyle. I believe its more immoral to think that if you get into a bad position in life you deserve a hand out and have the audacity to whinge about how much too. Id be ashamed and would be banging on doors looking for a job too.
What is worse, working hard and enjoying a nice lifestyle and being seen as a role model or being taxed for it and encouraging further people and longer time to abuse benefits?
J

16 Feb 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
Scenario .......
Poor Man earns £1000 per month and pays 25% tax on it ie £250 into the tax coffers
Rich Man earns £10000 per month and would put £2500 into the tax coffers thats more than the poor man, but wait, rich man has to pay 40% tax so actually puts £4000 into the tax coffers, that's a lot more thatn the poor man does.
Ask the rich man to pay 50% or 60% tax and rich man moves his assets abroad.
Better to get his £4000 than nothing at all from him.
Immoral perhaps, Unfair perhaps but it is a sad fact of life that we need those rich people to get richer and be happy here.

being a capitalist myself...I ask myself why should the rich pay more in tax? i.e the 40% tax band...does it cost more to "keep" the rich in this country?
I am of the belief the more you earn the more you keep. This would have a massive effect on the economy, we would have more = buy more = more people employed...prosperity all round and it would attract more high earners here, instead of sending them away.

16 Feb 2013

95% of the countries wealth, owned by 5% of the people................fact.
The other 95% of the people are or have ???

16 Feb 2013

Quote by VoyeurJ
Sorry Mids but we make our own life decisions and if you graft and want to climb the pay ladder you can. But not if you accept and moan about how life is unfair and not ideal.
More wealthy people didnt become so by paying silly amounts of tax on earnings. Even so we still pay over our careers a substantial amount more than the bottom level pay roles. Its not immoral its just being clever and maximising your income to maximise your lifestyle and that of your children's.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact
How do the rich live off the poor too? We need everyone to stop making excuses, get out to retrain or get to work and deserve better pay and lifestyle. I believe its more immoral to think that if you get into a bad position in life you deserve a hand out and have the audacity to whinge about how much too. Id be ashamed and would be banging on doors looking for a job too.
What is worse, working hard and enjoying a nice lifestyle and being seen as a role model or being taxed for it and encouraging further people and longer time to abuse benefits?
J

I REALLY can't begin to describe how angry this post makes me feel....
In fact if I posted how I feel right now a lenghty ban would almost certainly follow !!

16 Feb 2013

Quote by VoyeurJ
Sorry Mids but we make our own life decisions and if you graft and want to climb the pay ladder you can. But not if you accept and moan about how life is unfair and not ideal.
More wealthy people didnt become so by paying silly amounts of tax on earnings. Even so we still pay over our careers a substantial amount more than the bottom level pay roles. Its not immoral its just being clever and maximising your income to maximise your lifestyle and that of your children's.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact
How do the rich live off the poor too? We need everyone to stop making excuses, get out to retrain or get to work and deserve better pay and lifestyle. I believe its more immoral to think that if you get into a bad position in life you deserve a hand out and have the audacity to whinge about how much too. Id be ashamed and would be banging on doors looking for a job too.
What is worse, working hard and enjoying a nice lifestyle and being seen as a role model or being taxed for it and encouraging further people and longer time to abuse benefits?
J

The only fact about above is you don't know anything about what you talking about.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact..no total bollocks
How when you are on minimum wage do you expect someone to re-train and become an employer !!! Poeple simply want a fair days wage for a fair days work.
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact...no total bollocks
People struggle because the wage they are given is such a pittance or they struggle because after 40 years of hard graft the company decides they can make more money moving factory to Romania or China and they they can pay the workers a quarter of the hourly wage, making themselves bigger profits and oh yes...bigger dividends for shareholders !!!
I myself was head hunted by one company, and so left the job I was doing to work for them. They are a major international company. After 6 monthes with everything on target, they decided they were going to move the operation out of the UK. Those they had taken away from other jobs ..(like me) were given one weeks pay, and told we were redundant !! Now tell me where my choice to be unemployed came from there.
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact ...no total bollocks
What actually happens is rich people become even richer, by the workers increasing production, and therefore they can then pay themselves more bonus and more dividend to shareholders.
Get real...and have a look out the window. Jobs are now growing on the trees round here !! Tax is not designed to be fair. You could say why should the couple with no kids pay the same tax as those with, as they will not be useing the education system as much as the other. Tax is there to help pay for a great deal more than just benifiets. There will always be those that try and abuse the tax system...and we should hunt them down . However let us remember a damn sight more in value is fiddled or avoided at the top level, than is falsely claimed at the lower level. No one likes paying tax, but it is time certain levels of people wake up, we do so for the greater good of all.

17 Feb 2013

Quote by deancannock
Sorry Mids but we make our own life decisions and if you graft and want to climb the pay ladder you can. But not if you accept and moan about how life is unfair and not ideal.
More wealthy people didnt become so by paying silly amounts of tax on earnings. Even so we still pay over our careers a substantial amount more than the bottom level pay roles. Its not immoral its just being clever and maximising your income to maximise your lifestyle and that of your children's.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact
How do the rich live off the poor too? We need everyone to stop making excuses, get out to retrain or get to work and deserve better pay and lifestyle. I believe its more immoral to think that if you get into a bad position in life you deserve a hand out and have the audacity to whinge about how much too. Id be ashamed and would be banging on doors looking for a job too.
What is worse, working hard and enjoying a nice lifestyle and being seen as a role model or being taxed for it and encouraging further people and longer time to abuse benefits?
J

The only fact about above is you don't know anything about what you talking about.
Poor people should retrain and work to become employers = fact..no total bollocks
How when you are on minimum wage do you expect someone to re-train and become an employer !!! Poeple simply want a fair days wage for a fair days work.
Poor people struggle and cant earn enough are on benefits because they choose to be = fact...no total bollocks
People struggle because the wage they are given is such a pittance or they struggle because after 40 years of hard graft the company decides they can make more money moving factory to Romania or China and they they can pay the workers a quarter of the hourly wage, making themselves bigger profits and oh yes...bigger dividends for shareholders !!!
I myself was head hunted by one company, and so left the job I was doing to work for them. They are a major international company. After 6 monthes with everything on target, they decided they were going to move the operation out of the UK. Those they had taken away from other jobs ..(like me) were given one weeks pay, and told we were redundant !! Now tell me where my choice to be unemployed came from there.
Rich people employ poor people and if they work hard and are good they are paid more = fact ...no total bollocks
What actually happens is rich people become even richer, by the workers increasing production, and therefore they can then pay themselves more bonus and more dividend to shareholders.
Get real...and have a look out the window. Jobs are now growing on the trees round here !! Tax is not designed to be fair. You could say why should the couple with no kids pay the same tax as those with, as they will not be useing the education system as much as the other. Tax is there to help pay for a great deal more than just benifiets. There will always be those that try and abuse the tax system...and we should hunt them down . However let us remember a damn sight more in value is fiddled or avoided at the top level, than is falsely claimed at the lower level. No one likes paying tax, but it is time certain levels of people wake up, we do so for the greater good of all.
Its my opinion and having worked and studied and have to still to keep relevant its also my experience i do know what im on about, Sorry Dean but after reading why you think I dont know anything im talking about there .. just seems to me more excuses from someone not doing anything other than accepting how difficult and unfair life is and whinging about it being unfair. You mean jobs that pay more than peoples benefits are hard to find .. Somehow the polish hard and good grafters ive bumped into have got a job and maybe if our less qualified mob didn't get freebies for as long as they want them, they would also get up before 10am and get to bloody work like the rest of us do.
In the end people with money will always have the intelligence to maximise it by having the ambition, drive and knowledge to be a success so id expect them to use any legal loopholes to do so. Ones without will always moan about how unfair and difficult life is and itd be acceptable if anyone with money gave more to ensure they can keep the sky on the go.

17 Feb 2013

Quote by VoyeurJ
In the end people with money will always have the intelligence to maximise it by having the ambition, drive and knowledge to be a success so id expect them to use any legal loopholes to do so. Ones without will always moan about how unfair and difficult life is and itd be acceptable if anyone with money gave more to ensure they can keep the sky on the go.

This little snippet I have to say is about as smug and self righteous bollocks I have seen written on here. You really do believe your own self deluded PR Voyeur.
Remember to be nice to people on the way up, as they sure as fuck won't be as nice on the way down. There are richer, more cleverer and more astute people than you around every street corner who have lost it all............be very careful about your smugness as from where you are sitting it is obviously a heck of a long way to fall, from your ivory tower.

17 Feb 2013

Voyeur, I am not even going to respond to what you say or believe on each individual comment except with this post to say it is not even worth replying to what you believe. I respect your right to say it and believe it, I respect my right to believe it is totally wrong and as uninformed as it could be, perhaps only even said to create a reaction.

17 Feb 2013

Actually I think that Voyeurs post is pretty representative of the positive minded can do type of person that generally gets on in life.
I think that people who are successful and financially secure tend to have a positive outlook on life and will aLways look for opportunity when everyone else see's only adversity. Ironically these people also seem to be "lucky," whilst everyone else is down on their luck.
In this country there really does need to be a seismic change of attitude away from reliance on the welfare system and a blame for all of life's ills. When things go wrong it is seldom anyone else's fault but your own - if you believe that, chances are you will be successful but if your catastrophe's in life have always been someone else's fault, chances are your bad luck will continue through the rest of your life.

17 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Actually I think that Voyeurs post is pretty representative of the positive minded can do type of person that generally gets on in life.
I think that people who are successful and financially secure tend to have a positive outlook on life and will aLways look for opportunity when everyone else see's only adversity. Ironically these people also seem to be "lucky," whilst everyone else is down on their luck.
In this country there really does need to be a seismic change of attitude away from reliance on the welfare system and a blame for all of life's ills. When things go wrong it is seldom anyone else's fault but your own - if you believe that, chances are you will be successful but if your catastrophe's in life have always been someone else's fault, chances are your bad luck will continue through the rest of your life.

Tell that to the people who were working hard at.. Jessops..HMV..Comet..Republic...yea all your own fault you are now redundant !!!

17 Feb 2013

Quote by deancannock
Actually I think that Voyeurs post is pretty representative of the positive minded can do type of person that generally gets on in life.
I think that people who are successful and financially secure tend to have a positive outlook on life and will aLways look for opportunity when everyone else see's only adversity. Ironically these people also seem to be "lucky," whilst everyone else is down on their luck.
In this country there really does need to be a seismic change of attitude away from reliance on the welfare system and a blame for all of life's ills. When things go wrong it is seldom anyone else's fault but your own - if you believe that, chances are you will be successful but if your catastrophe's in life have always been someone else's fault, chances are your bad luck will continue through the rest of your life.

Tell that to the people who were working hard at.. Jessops..HMV..Comet..Republic...yea all your own fault you are now redundant !!!
Retail is not and never has been a secure type of work. If I had been working at HMV and made redundant I would be asking myself if there was anything that I could have done different to avoid what has happened?
Well, HMV have had profit warnings for the last three years, music buying trends have changed and so really I ought to have looked to move on any time in the last three years cos the writing was on the wall. Lesson learned, I won't do that again. I will learn to spot the sinking ship long before it is lost forever.
It is called living and learning and at one time when we all had personal responsibility we would do this - nowadays we blame The Bankers, the govt, the Internet - in fact everyone but ourselves. Accepting blame for your own place in life means that you accept responsibility and are more likely to do something positive as a result.

17 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Retail is not and never has been a secure type of work. If I had been working at HMV and made redundant I would be asking myself if there was anything that I could have done different to avoid what has happened?

Oh fecking purleeese. How perfect a human being you are, but lack any amount of compassion.

Quote by Too Hot
Well, HMV have had profit warnings for the last three years, music buying trends have changed and so really I ought to have looked to move on any time in the last three years cos the writing was on the wall. Lesson learned, I won't do that again. I will learn to spot the sinking ship long before it is lost forever.

Oh the wonders of hindsight. What's it like TH to be so god damn perfect?

Quote by Too Hot
It is called living and learning and at one time when we all had personal responsibility we would do this - nowadays we blame The Bankers, the govt, the Internet - in fact everyone but ourselves. Accepting blame for your own place in life means that you accept responsibility and are more likely to do something positive as a result.

Yes I blame my fucking past employer for running up a VAT and personnel tax bill. Of course he said he was sorry as he gave me my P45 , but hey TH I should have spotted the downfall, I should have evaluated my position, assessed my future, and worked a bit harder to stop it.
I reckon you are saying these things just simply to get a reaction, as people just cannot be as openly smug as you without lots of practice. :notes:

17 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Retail is not and never has been a secure type of work. If I had been working at HMV and made redundant I would be asking myself if there was anything that I could have done different to avoid what has happened?

Oh fecking purleeese. How perfect a human being you are, but lack any amount of compassion.

Quote by Too Hot
Well, HMV have had profit warnings for the last three years, music buying trends have changed and so really I ought to have looked to move on any time in the last three years cos the writing was on the wall. Lesson learned, I won't do that again. I will learn to spot the sinking ship long before it is lost forever.

Oh the wonders of hindsight. What's it like TH to be so god damn perfect?

Quote by Too Hot
It is called living and learning and at one time when we all had personal responsibility we would do this - nowadays we blame The Bankers, the govt, the Internet - in fact everyone but ourselves. Accepting blame for your own place in life means that you accept responsibility and are more likely to do something positive as a result.

Yes I blame my fucking past employer for running up a VAT and personnel tax bill. Of course he said he was sorry as he gave me my P45 , but hey TH I should have spotted the downfall, I should have evaluated my position, assessed my future, and worked a bit harder to stop it.
I reckon you are saying these things just simply to get a reaction, as people just cannot be as openly smug as you without lots of practice. :notes:
I was made redundant from my career of choice at 22 years old and was fortunate to get an alternative carrier path but that too was cut short this time by injury at 24. Since then, every other job, work or contract has been ended at a time of my choosing. I had bad luck and I worked in retail at one point, but I saw where it was going and got out. Perhaps you should have used the skills gained in your former employment to take over after the collapse of your previous employer? Sounds like there was an opportunity for you there.
By the way, I am not smug I just can't understand how negative people can be when there is so much opportunity in the world.

17 Feb 2013

well...personally I like the phrase
" there but for the grace of God go I "
I will never condem a man that is done on his luck....opportunity is few and far between at the moment. Work is very difficult to find even if qualified. I am thankful I earn a good wage, and comfortable in my life. But I am aware that can change tomorrow. I like to think I have compasion for others. I certainly don't blame them for the situation, they may find themselves in.

17 Feb 2013

Quote by deancannock
well...personally I like the phrase
" there but for the grace of God go I "
I will never condem a man that is done on his luck....opportunity is few and far between at the moment. Work is very difficult to find even if qualified. I am thankful I earn a good wage, and comfortable in my life. But I am aware that can change tomorrow. I like to think I have compasion for others. I certainly don't blame them for the situation, they may find themselves in.

No one is blaming anyone for anything. What I am saying is that when things go wrong we should all be asking ourselves what could we have done to prevent the situation or mitigate the consequences - before blaming someone else. Only by doing this can we learn life's lessons and unfortunately in our country at the moment there is a culture of blaming someone else rather than looking at our own failings.
I happen to think that asking yourself that question is no bad whenever things go wrong and I don't necessarily agree with the psychobabble nonsense which says that you should not blame yourself - you should - because it makes you angry and determined and it focuses the mind not to make the same mistakes again.

17 Feb 2013

I don't think anything went wrong as such, a lot of naivity perhaps, a failure of those who get paid to prevent such things failed to put a process into place to prevent the criminals, true you cannot legislate for every occurence but criminals have been selling goods under false names for longer than I have been alive and probably longer than us all put together.
Criminals target our products everyday, fake handbags, vodka, ciggerettes, shoes, anything that has a market value, now I know they do check a lot of food for a lot of things but I would have thought the DNA of meat, fish and poultry would be a standard check, only a few weeks ago it was reported that much of the Cod being sold in this country is actually an inferior, cheaper (but like horsemeat) safe product caught in Vietnam.
Wild Salmon is not always wild but sometimes farmed, lessons should already have been learned and safeguards put in place by government and at supermarket, abbatoir and processing plant levels, all the latter 3 have a duty to make sure that what they sell us is what they tell us they are selling us, government has a responsibility to ensure they do thier jobs.
Recriminations against the factories and supermarkets would be a waste of time at this stage, they will already be counting the cost of lost goodwill and loss of income as sales in processed foods drop, but they should be made to implement testing conditions.
Random check of all meat, poultry and fish for DNA would probably have prevented this fraud very early on, criminals may not even have gone to the expense of trying to defraud us if they knew such checks were in place knowing they would quickly be caught.

18 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Actually I think that Voyeurs post is pretty representative of the positive minded can do type of person that generally gets on in life.
I think that people who are successful and financially secure tend to have a positive outlook on life and will aLways look for opportunity when everyone else see's only adversity. Ironically these people also seem to be "lucky," whilst everyone else is down on their luck.
In this country there really does need to be a seismic change of attitude away from reliance on the welfare system and a blame for all of life's ills. When things go wrong it is seldom anyone else's fault but your own - if you believe that, chances are you will be successful but if your catastrophe's in life have always been someone else's fault, chances are your bad luck will continue through the rest of your life.

Thanks TooHot,
I dont lack compassion just believe that its not fair to punish success and give long term benefits if able to work is all. If you choose a career working in HMV shop floor etc and never choose to advance above .. isnt that just blind and silly. Everyone has the choice and can at any time do so. Wouldnt it be a quicker end to the recession etc if everyone started grafting and having a go at it instead of whinging and finding more and more excused why they are struggling and on benefits!
No one is owed anything or given anything good for free. Take it or go for it and you just may have to start moaning about being taxed twice now your successful in time ....
J ..

18 Feb 2013

But what about job satisfaction, if your happy at HMV paying your bills why might you want to "better" yourself perhaps putting your happiness at risk if things go pear shape in your new endevour, is it so wrong to "get by"
People can be "just getting by" and very happy, people can be "very well off" and be very unhappy.
I am very happy, some weeks we struggle a little moneywise other weeks we are better off, we have a nice home, a small business, good friends, we enjoy our lifestyle have at least 5 days off and 7 nights off a week, we will never be rich, never command positions of power and may never know "what might have been" but that doesn't worry us.
Would earning more guarantee us more happiness ? or would we possibly have more worries, less time with each other, less time to relax and enjoy our simple lifestyle, would the pressure get to us ?
I have been a regional manager for a large company, managed a hotel in Switzerland, owned my own small successfull business but have never been as relaxed or happy as I am now.

18 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
I happen to think that asking yourself that question is no bad whenever things go wrong and I don't necessarily agree with the psychobabble nonsense which says that you should not blame yourself - you should - because it makes you angry and determined and it focuses the mind not to make the same mistakes again.

Th.......without giving too much away here I worked for a company for 15 years. I started work at this company when we only had one customer and between the employer and myself we built it up to a 300 thousand pound turnover business. Of course the profit was a lot less than that at around 25 thousand a year which often would go towards either upgrading a piece of old machinery, or to purchase something from new. After 8 years of trading we moved into a newish unit and continued to trade happily until we lost a few biggish customers.
Time and again I was led a merry dance as to how the company was doing from a financial footing, but was assured a hundred times that things were fine. He owned a very nice 4 bed roomed house and had brought a 57 plate Mercedes car, and three months before the company went under he had a 22 thousand pound kitchen installed. Unbeknown to me whilst all the suppliers had been paid and the rent on the unit was up to date, the VAT was out of control as was his personnel tax as being a sole trader.
In November of last year I was told that the HMRC were going to foreclose on him as his tax bill for VAT stood at a mind numbing , with a personnel tax bill of So I was laid off with only Novembers pay packet. I after 15 years of loyal service to that company was not even given the statutory 15 week notice period, let alone 15 years of redundancy money.
I had to wait 5 months for any further money which was paid from the Redundancies agency, and then a further 6 months for the statutory 15 weeks notice leave owed to me which was paid a t a much reduced rate than my weekly salary. The Government paid £360 pw for the maximum 15 weeks notice period, where I was on a bit more than that.
The line of business I was in has undergone a huge downgrade in the last 10 years, and am now finding it impossible to find work in that field. So I find myself with no relevant skills in another profession unless I pay to be retrained. Where exactly does that money come from? When I claimed the paltry £68 pw JSA I was told that the Job Centre helped people financially with training etc. They only pay out £500 from a local Job Centre, and £800 from the regional part of the Job seekers dept. £800? Where can you get training for anything for that amount? I looked into a career as a driving instructor which costs around £2600 minimum and yet because of the high fail rate the JSA would not even contemplate putting any amount towards the training. So I looked into a driver with a PSV license and once again the same argument from them. They expected me to look for work but would not help me retrain from a financial point of view.
So here I am working for not much more than minimum wage in a job that is a decade away from what I had been doing for the previous 35 years of my working life. I have not got the money needed to retrain and the job centre were really no help at all. So TH how do you propose that I better myself exactly? How can I get a job with prospects at my age? Employers do not want to employ people in their 50's and nobody is prepared to retrain someone of that age.
Any constructive advice TH I would gladly listen too. In fact this is aimed at Voyeur also, as I am sure with two perfect human beings with all the answers, I would expect to be able to find a decent paid job by the end of the month....Over to you guys. :twisted:

18 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

I happen to think that asking yourself that question is no bad whenever things go wrong and I don't necessarily agree with the psychobabble nonsense which says that you should not blame yourself - you should - because it makes you angry and determined and it focuses the mind not to make the same mistakes again.

Th.......without giving too much away here I worked for a company for 15 years. I started work at this company when we only had one customer and between the employer and myself we built it up to a 300 thousand pound turnover business. Of course the profit was a lot less than that at around 25 thousand a year which often would go towards either upgrading a piece of old machinery, or to purchase something from new. After 8 years of trading we moved into a newish unit and continued to trade happily until we lost a few biggish customers.
Time and again I was led a merry dance as to how the company was doing from a financial footing, but was assured a hundred times that things were fine. He owned a very nice 4 bed roomed house and had brought a 57 plate Mercedes car, and three months before the company went under he had a 22 thousand pound kitchen installed. Unbeknown to me whilst all the suppliers had been paid and the rent on the unit was up to date, the VAT was out of control as was his personnel tax as being a sole trader.
In November of last year I was told that the HMRC were going to foreclose on him as his tax bill for VAT stood at a mind numbing , with a personnel tax bill of So I was laid off with only Novembers pay packet. I after 15 years of loyal service to that company was not even given the statutory 15 week notice period, let alone 15 years of redundancy money.
I had to wait 5 months for any further money which was paid from the Redundancies agency, and then a further 6 months for the statutory 15 weeks notice leave owed to me which was paid a t a much reduced rate than my weekly salary. The Government paid £360 pw for the maximum 15 weeks notice period, where I was on a bit more than that.
The line of business I was in has undergone a huge downgrade in the last 10 years, and am now finding it impossible to find work in that field. So I find myself with no relevant skills in another profession unless I pay to be retrained. Where exactly does that money come from? When I claimed the paltry £68 pw JSA I was told that the Job Centre helped people financially with training etc. They only pay out £500 from a local Job Centre, and £800 from the regional part of the Job seekers dept. £800? Where can you get training for anything for that amount? I looked into a career as a driving instructor which costs around £2600 minimum and yet because of the high fail rate the JSA would not even contemplate putting any amount towards the training. So I looked into a driver with a PSV license and once again the same argument from them. They expected me to look for work but would not help me retrain from a financial point of view.
So here I am working for not much more than minimum wage in a job that is a decade away from what I had been doing for the previous 35 years of my working life. I have not got the money needed to retrain and the job centre were really no help at all. So TH how do you propose that I better myself exactly? How can I get a job with prospects at my age? Employers do not want to employ people in their 50's and nobody is prepared to retrain someone of that age.
Any constructive advice TH I would gladly listen too. In fact this is aimed at Voyeur also, as I am sure with two perfect human beings with all the answers, I would expect to be able to find a decent paid job by the end of the month....Over to you guys. :twisted:
Something very similar happened to a mate of mine about two years ago. He was the sole full time employee of an offset print company. The Company folded probably as a direct consequence of the rise in Companies like vistaprint. The Company he worked for went bust as the owner had paid everyone but the VAT man and he was closed down by HMRC.
He has since continued to supply the old customers and whilst he officially now has his own "print company" he simply sub contracts the print work through a number of different industrial printers.
I don't know what business you were in but what he did was realise that the customers of this business were going to get their print done anyway and he used his relationship with them and his knowledge of the print business to set himself up risk free and with virtually no cost.

18 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Something very similar happened to a mate of mine about two years ago. He was the sole full time employee of an offset print company. The Company folded probably as a direct consequence of the rise in Companies like vistaprint. The Company he worked for went bust as the owner had paid everyone but the VAT man and he was closed down by HMRC.
He has since continued to supply the old customers and whilst he officially now has his own "print company" he simply sub contracts the print work through a number of different industrial printers.
I don't know what business you were in but what he did was realise that the customers of this business were going to get their print done anyway and he used his relationship with them and his knowledge of the print business to set himself up risk free and with virtually no cost.

That's it TH?
Don't mean to be rude but the Job Centre was more helpful than that. rolleyes

Trust me a lot of companies would not want to deal with a person who was ' farming ' out their print work. Most companies want to deal with a firm with a unit and a print machine, not to deal with a lone person going wherever to get that print printed. Most customers hate being let down with poor quality and bad time scales and giving work to a print farmer who is then reliant on others good will is a pretty poor bit of advice TH.
For all your expertise and tons of advice as to what people should do, you have come up with nothing new at all and after all the time I spent writing that as well. Loads of talk TH from you, but nothing constructive when I ask you for something. Will not make that mistake again. wink

18 Feb 2013

Quote by starlightcouple

Something very similar happened to a mate of mine about two years ago. He was the sole full time employee of an offset print company. The Company folded probably as a direct consequence of the rise in Companies like vistaprint. The Company he worked for went bust as the owner had paid everyone but the VAT man and he was closed down by HMRC.
He has since continued to supply the old customers and whilst he officially now has his own "print company" he simply sub contracts the print work through a number of different industrial printers.
I don't know what business you were in but what he did was realise that the customers of this business were going to get their print done anyway and he used his relationship with them and his knowledge of the print business to set himself up risk free and with virtually no cost.

That's it TH?
Don't mean to be rude but the Job Centre was more helpful than that. rolleyes

Trust me a lot of companies would not want to deal with a person who was ' farming ' out their print work. Most companies want to deal with a firm with a unit and a print machine, not to deal with a lone person going wherever to get that print printed. Most customers hate being let down with poor quality and bad time scales and giving work to a print farmer who is then reliant on others good will is a pretty poor bit of advice TH.
For all your expertise and tons of advice as to what people should do, you have come up with nothing new at all and after all the time I spent writing that as well. Loads of talk TH from you, but nothing constructive when I ask you for something. Will not make that mistake again. wink

Listen - I am not your careers advisor - I am telling you what someone else did in a similar situation and despite your immediate negative response about why he would fail I can tell you that I was out with him on Saturday picking up his new Range Rover. He now has one of the biggest print companies in Manchester and specialises in printing Government and EU publications.
You are a nut if you think I am going to waste my time trying to turn a donkey into a race horse. Sort your negative attitude out and your life might just change for the better.

18 Feb 2013

Quote by Too Hot
Listen - I am not your careers advisor - I am telling you what someone else did in a similar situation and despite your immediate negative response about why he would fail I can tell you that I was out with him on Saturday picking up his new Range Rover. He now has one of the biggest print companies in Manchester and specialises in printing Government and EU publications.

Well that's convenient then eh TH? You always seem to either know someone or know someone who knows someone else. innocent

Quote by Too Hot
You are a nut if you think I am going to waste my time trying to turn a donkey into a race horse. Sort your negative attitude out and your life might just change for the better.

No TH........you see I have had to sit here and listen to you drone on and on about how people are to blame for this, and how people always blame someone else and how you know this and how you know that from months of posts, and yet I ask you a simple question and at the first hurdle you give some pretty ridiculous answer. Then when I tell you that your comments just do not add up, you get all huffy puffy about it.
The reason I dismiss your story above is......Google Sakurai presses, that should kinda give you a bit of a clue. Oh and thanks for all the advice, well for what it was. :bounce:

18 Feb 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
I don't think anything went wrong as such, a lot of naivity perhaps, a failure of those who get paid to prevent such things failed to put a process into place to prevent the criminals, true you cannot legislate for every occurence but criminals have been selling goods under false names for longer than I have been alive and probably longer than us all put together.
Criminals target our products everyday, fake handbags, vodka, ciggerettes, shoes, anything that has a market value, now I know they do check a lot of food for a lot of things but I would have thought the DNA of meat, fish and poultry would be a standard check, only a few weeks ago it was reported that much of the Cod being sold in this country is actually an inferior, cheaper (but like horsemeat) safe product caught in Vietnam.
Wild Salmon is not always wild but sometimes farmed, lessons should already have been learned and safeguards put in place by government and at supermarket, abbatoir and processing plant levels, all the latter 3 have a duty to make sure that what they sell us is what they tell us they are selling us, government has a responsibility to ensure they do thier jobs.
Recriminations against the factories and supermarkets would be a waste of time at this stage, they will already be counting the cost of lost goodwill and loss of income as sales in processed foods drop, but they should be made to implement testing conditions.
Random check of all meat, poultry and fish for DNA would probably have prevented this fraud very early on, criminals may not even have gone to the expense of trying to defraud us if they knew such checks were in place knowing they would quickly be caught.

This has to be the most irrelevant post I have ever come across in a thread :haha:

18 Feb 2013

Perhaps we should get back to what the thread is about?? We all have views that differ and some won't change them no matter what the facts and even I have had to bite me tongue in this thread. If I can do it - so can you :smile:
Can I suggest that those who it does effect try and get some professional advice if needed from a Cab etc whilst its still on offer (loads of cab offices are stopping certain advice now) or you local housing authority confused

:?.

18 Feb 2013

Quote by anais
Perhaps we should get back to what the thread is about?? We all have views that differ and some won't change them no matter what the facts and even I have had to bite me tongue in this thread. If I can do it - so can you :smile:
Can I suggest that those who it does effect try and get some professional advice if needed from a Cab etc whilst its still on offer (loads of cab offices are stopping certain advice now) or you local housing authority :?.

Last time I phoned a cab office, it was raining and the only advice they would give is "20 minutes"
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18 Feb 2013

Quote by GnV
Perhaps we should get back to what the thread is about?? We all have views that differ and some won't change them no matter what the facts and even I have had to bite me tongue in this thread. If I can do it - so can you :smile:
Can I suggest that those who it does effect try and get some professional advice if needed from a Cab etc whilst its still on offer (loads of cab offices are stopping certain advice now) or you local housing authority :?.

Last time I phoned a cab office, it was raining and the only advice they would give is "20 minutes"
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