Let us hope we do not have another hard winter like last year or our roads will be in a right mess!!!
Sex God
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The Countryside Matters
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The sad fact is that even OUR dairy cows are bred to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to produce as much milk as possible.
No dairy cow has a 'happy' life. In order to produce milk they have obviously had a calf, this calf is taken away from its mother earlier than natural (before natural weaning) so the that the mother keeps producing milk. The cow will cry for weeks after the calf is taken away.
If the calf is female she will probably be reared and kept. However, if the calf is male he has little value, he will not be best for beef, most probably be used for dog food. Beef cows are bred for beef. Dairy cows bred for milk.
Life expectancy for a dairy cow? max 6 years. Once been used for milk production, they will end up as dog food.
Can you imagine being pregnant every year and then having your baby taken away from you, every time.
Most farms (organic being the only real exception) have to be run as an industry, or they simply wont survive.
Dont blame the farmer, blame the supermarkets.
No dairy cow has a 'happy' life. In order to produce milk they have obviously had a calf, this calf is taken away from its mother earlier than natural (before natural weaning) so the that the mother keeps producing milk. The cow will cry for weeks after the calf is taken away.
If the calf is female she will probably be reared and kept. However, if the calf is male he has little value, he will not be best for beef, most probably be used for dog food. Beef cows are bred for beef. Dairy cows bred for milk.
Life expectancy for a dairy cow? max 6 years. Once been used for milk production, they will end up as dog food.
Can you imagine being pregnant every year and then having your baby taken away from you, every time.
Most farms (organic being the only real exception) have to be run as an industry, or they simply wont survive.
Dont blame the farmer, blame the supermarkets.
Sex God
Quote by flower411
The sad fact is that even OUR dairy cows are bred to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to produce as much milk as possible.
No dairy cow has a 'happy' life. In order to produce milk they have obviously had a calf, this calf is taken away from its mother earlier than natural (before natural weaning) so the that the mother keeps producing milk. The cow will cry for weeks after the calf is taken away.
If the calf is female she will probably be reared and kept. However, if the calf is male he has little value, he will not be best for beef, most probably be used for dog food. Beef cows are bred for beef. Dairy cows bred for milk.
Life expectancy for a dairy cow? max 6 years. Once been used for milk production, they will end up as dog food.
Can you imagine being pregnant every year and then having your baby taken away from you, every time.
Most farms (organic being the only real exception) have to be run as an industry, or they simply wont survive.
Dont blame the farmer, blame the supermarkets.
Oh come on !! Blame the consumer .....they don`t give a flying fuck what happens to the animals as long as they can buy cheap in plastic sanitised packaging from sterile shops.
Flower is quite correct, we can not blame the supermarkets, although they must take some blame. But the biggest problem is the consumer, who on many occations will by whatever is the cheapest, meat, milk and veg.
Ok, i accept the consumer should take some responsability, and if you are lucky enough to have a range of shops (for want of a better word) to buy from then great.
Where i live we have 2 convienece stores, and one small supermarket (non of them are independants). I would have to drive atleast 11 miles to have any other choice of milk, cheese etc. If my local supermarket offered more choice then i would always buy the more 'animal fiendly' products. I dont eat meat or fish, and i keep my own, completely free range chickens.
Oh come on !! Blame the consumer .....they don`t give a flying fuck what happens to the animals as long as they can buy cheap in plastic sanitised packaging from sterile shops.
Flower is quite correct, we can not blame the supermarkets, although they must take some blame. But the biggest problem is the consumer, who on many occations will by whatever is the cheapest, meat, milk and veg.
Where i live we have 2 convienece stores, and one small supermarket (non of them are independants). I would have to drive atleast 11 miles to have any other choice of milk, cheese etc. If my local supermarket offered more choice then i would always buy the more 'animal fiendly' products. I dont eat meat or fish, and i keep my own, completely free range chickens.
Quote by Bluefish2009
The sad fact is that even OUR dairy cows are bred to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to produce as much milk as possible.
No dairy cow has a 'happy' life. In order to produce milk they have obviously had a calf, this calf is taken away from its mother earlier than natural (before natural weaning) so the that the mother keeps producing milk. The cow will cry for weeks after the calf is taken away.
If the calf is female she will probably be reared and kept. However, if the calf is male he has little value, he will not be best for beef, most probably be used for dog food. Beef cows are bred for beef. Dairy cows bred for milk.
Life expectancy for a dairy cow? max 6 years. Once been used for milk production, they will end up as dog food.
Can you imagine being pregnant every year and then having your baby taken away from you, every time.
Most farms (organic being the only real exception) have to be run as an industry, or they simply wont survive.
Dont blame the farmer, blame the supermarkets.
Oh come on !! Blame the consumer .....they don`t give a flying fuck what happens to the animals as long as they can buy cheap in plastic sanitised packaging from sterile shops.
Flower is quite correct, we can not blame the supermarkets, although they must take some blame. But the biggest problem is the consumer, who on many occations will by whatever is the cheapest, meat, milk and veg.
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
This one should be a bit of fun to debate, very emotive subject. I shall be attempting as best I can to defend the actions taken by the so called trophy hunters.....
Emperor update
Since the breaking of this story, and having read more about it since, I firmly believe this was just an over hyped story which appealed the the fluffy bunny brigade, which then all in-sundry jumped on the band wagon.
It may even have been set up to make somebody some money. The original story was feed to the press by a Somerset based photographer, Richard Austin, who three weeks previously had sold pictures to national news papers of an Exmoor Stag he had named the "Emperor" and which he claimed was the largest wild animal in Britain.(coincidence?) Having looked into this claim a little further, even this was misleading, at a claimed weight of 300lb he was well below average. The average weight of a red stag in lowland Britain is 400lb, and in some areas they can reach as much as 600lbs plus.
At the age of 13 year's old, the Stag was at a good age for culling. With modern agriculture, constant urbanisation, and a lack of natural predators means that now, more than ever, management and culling is accentual.
Sex God
This one is back in the news again
Lincolnshire 'super dairy' plan sees cow numbers halved
Lincolnshire 'super dairy' plan sees cow numbers halved
Sex God
Blue, credit where credit is due for a good thread . . . . We must always respect the countrywise knowledge of country folk who do their best to feed us and know better than us townies after all? ;)
In the news this week, Can't say as the trigger-puller's getting a right lot of credit, cos I'm pretty damn sure that fish are better at breeding than Ospreys every which way, but hey?
;)
Also in the news this week, cow farmers and the govt seem to be trying to tell us us that the source of TB in cattle has nowt to do and so naturally we must take up all weapons available and do our damnedest to eradicate badgers. :? Apparently it's cost us all the best part of 9 years and 49 million pounds to come up with the idea that the strategy won't work, but we're still gonna do it anyway?
Poor little badgers. 
N x x x ;)
In the news this week, Can't say as the trigger-puller's getting a right lot of credit, cos I'm pretty damn sure that fish are better at breeding than Ospreys every which way, but hey?
;)Also in the news this week, cow farmers and the govt seem to be trying to tell us us that the source of TB in cattle has nowt to do and so naturally we must take up all weapons available and do our damnedest to eradicate badgers. :? Apparently it's cost us all the best part of 9 years and 49 million pounds to come up with the idea that the strategy won't work, but we're still gonna do it anyway?
Poor little badgers. N x x x ;)
Master of Sex
Quote by neilinleeds
Also in the news this week, cow farmers and the govt seem to be trying to tell us us that the source of TB in cattle has nowt to do with simple trade and the movement of TB infected cows, and so naturally we must take up all weapons available and do our damnedest to eradicate badgers.
N x x x ;)
Bovine TB is an issue that needs to be tackled as it's costing the country a lot more than £49 million. I'm curious as to how we were TB free until four years ago, but have been a closed herd since 2001 (no animals bought in from outside the farm) and have no neighbouring herds of cattle. I may be a thick yokel and I'm sceptical about badger culling being the solution, but how can this be caused by the "trade and movement of TB infected cattle"? I do know that the test is flawed as any inconclusive reacters to the skin test will always test as positive to the blood test, but more often than not show no signs of the disease on post-mortum examination. That's a lot of cows culled unnecessarily (and a lot of unnecessary compensation paid) and a lot of farms placed on movement restrictions that need not have been.
Master of Sex
P.s Neil, can you stop amending your post every 2 minutes
Sex God
Quote by essex34m
P.s Neil, can you stop amending your post every 2 minutes
At least he didn't delete it....
Essex, you must be confusing me with someone else . . . . :uhoh: :P
Jewl, d'you know how sometimes you think that ain't quite what you wanted to say, so you just keep going and expanding and trying to qualify the whole thing . . . .
I'll quite happily defer on the technicalities, but having said that I'm pretty sure me general thrust about shooting ospreys and killing badgers for no logical reason whatsoever was pretty much bang on the money? ;) N x x x ;)
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
P.s Neil, can you stop amending your post every 2 minutes
Yeah, sorry about that JnM. You might have noticed that I have this tendency to over-qualify things a bit, to the point where there's no longer much of a point left of the point I thought I was making when I started typing. Oh well! ;)
Quote by Widey
You deleting your posts is something that has long annoyed me about you, as I want to read what you have to say.
Ha haaaa, but it's not about whether you want to read some of the absolute shite that spills from my mouth at times ((( or more accurately, from my flying fingertips? ))) is it Mr Essex, eh?
The question I must constantly ask myself is 'Do I really want to be reading this back in the morning?' :lol: ;):P
N x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
You deleting your posts is something that has long annoyed me about you, as I want to read what you have to say.
Ha haaaa, but it's not about whether you want to read some of the absolute shite that spills from my mouth at times ((( or more accurately, from my flying fingertips? ))) is it Mr Essex, eh?
The question I must constantly ask myself is 'Do I really want to be reading this back in the morning?' ;):P
N x x x ;)
Have the courage of your convictions! If you are adult enough to say them on an adult site, then stand by what you said! Or are you carefully wording your posts so as not to offend potential playmates?
Quote by neilinleeds
Ha haaaa, but it's not about whether you want to read some of the absolute shite that spills from my mouth at times ((( or more accurately, from my flying fingertips? ))) is it Mr Essex, eh?
:P
N x x x ;)
Well, that's how some I know might put it....
Sex God
Culling Badgers has helped in areas with the control of Bovine TB.
We have to control TB, so choices have to be made of the method used
We have to control TB, so choices have to be made of the method used
Sex God
Proposals for additional measures to help control bovine tuberculosis in cattle, including the culling of badgers by farmers, are now available on the DEFRA website.
Defra is consulting on a proposal to issue licences to farmers and landowners who wish to cull and/or vaccinate badgers at their own expense. These licences would be subject to strict licence criteria to ensure badger control is done effectively, humanely and with high regard for animal welfare
Defra is consulting on a proposal to issue licences to farmers and landowners who wish to cull and/or vaccinate badgers at their own expense. These licences would be subject to strict licence criteria to ensure badger control is done effectively, humanely and with high regard for animal welfare
Sex God
Save our badgers or save our cattle? 
Master of Sex
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
No, not blanket, each case on its Merritt's.
Sex God
Quote by Bluefish2009
Save our badgers or save our cattle?
Question is - are the badgers passing TB to the cattle or are the 'introduced' cattle passing TB on to our 'native' badgers.
Cattle can be (I believe, not being a farm or vet expert) vaccinated against TB - job done. I have a feeling there was some objection to this as the vaccination shows up as a case of TB in tests? That's stupid - all we need is a record of which animals have been vaccinated and they can't therefore have TB - surely that is what a vaccination is for. Again - job done.
Badgers belong here - whether individuals care or not, whether they like badgers or not - they belong. People are sgetting all het up worrying about polar bears that don't even set foot in this country and yet destroying an indigenous species is ok because they share a disease with a commercial animal.
Otters were almost (totally?) wiped out because fish farmers said they ate too many fish. And now we are trying to re-introduce them. Is there no such thing as 'lessons learned'?
Master of Sex
Quote by Bluefish2009
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
No, not blanket, each case on its Merritt's.
Care to elaborate?
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
No, not blanket, each case on its Merritt's.
Care to elaborate?
I come from a standpoint that it worked on a farm which had a cull in the mid ninety's.
Master of Sex
Quote by Bluefish2009
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
No, not blanket, each case on its Merritt's.
Care to elaborate?
I come from a standpoint that it worked on a farm which had a cull in the mid ninety's.
I meant elaborate on how you would select culling on it's merits.
Sex God
Quote by Jewlnmart
Blue,
Is it a blanket cull you favour in TB infected areas?
No, not blanket, each case on its Merritt's.
Care to elaborate?
I come from a standpoint that it worked on a farm which had a cull in the mid ninety's.
I meant elaborate on how you would select culling on it's merits.
I would have to be honest here and say that I am not qualified to answer that question.
This is some thing which has to be done with care, a cull can make things worse outside the actual area of the cull, pushing incidents of TB up in surrounding areas, apparently, disturbed badger groups can break up and spread the disease into non-infected areas.
I have to say, despite all this, I have seen it work.
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
Cattle can be (I believe, not being a farm or vet expert) vaccinated against TB - job done. I have a feeling there was some objection to this as the vaccination shows up as a case of TB in tests?
I'm led to believe that no EU licensed vaccine as yet exists, and cows that are tested positive for TB using a fairly dubious test are destroyed at some cost to the taxpayer. ((( Farming being a massively subsidised and thoroughly socialised essential industry, which is kind of ironic when you consider the political leanings of quite a lot of farmers, eh, but that's a different topic? ;) ))) The presence of TB antibodies would prevent the export of live cattle to other EU countries.
The cull of badgers will be based purely upon economic considerations. As per usual some country types will nevertheless demand the wholesale extermination of a species and / or habitats that pre-date their commercial activities by some millennia, that would otherwise interfere with their methods as custodians of the country ways they often claim to be trying to protect. I can make some allowances for them, cos I'm sure a lot of 'em wouldlike to be doing otherwise, and are worried they'll not make it to 2015 or whenever it will be that the vaccine finally becomes available, but that don't mean I'm not scathing of their dubious methods in the meantime?
N x x x
Sex God
Quote by neilinleeds
Cattle can be (I believe, not being a farm or vet expert) vaccinated against TB - job done. I have a feeling there was some objection to this as the vaccination shows up as a case of TB in tests?
I'm led to believe that no EU licensed vaccine as yet exists, and cows that are tested positive for TB using a fairly dubious test are destroyed at some cost to the taxpayer. ((( Farming being a massively subsidised and thoroughly socialised essential industry, which is kind of ironic when you consider the political leanings of quite a lot of farmers, eh, but that's a different topic? ;) ))) The presence of TB antibodies would prevent the export of live cattle to other EU countries.
The cull of badgers will be based purely upon economic considerations. As per usual some country types will nevertheless demand the wholesale extermination of a species and / or habitats that pre-date their commercial activities by some millennia,that would otherwise interfere with their methods as custodians of the country ways they often claim to be trying to protect. I can make some allowances for them, cos I'm sure a lot of 'em wouldlike to be doing otherwise, and are worried they'll not make it to 2015 or whenever it will be that the vaccine finally becomes available, but that don't mean I'm not scathing of their dubious methods in the meantime?
N x x x
I don't believe any farmer/countryman would like to see the total extermination of any animal or it's habitat, I would suggest, if I may be so bold, more habitats have been destroyed by the building of our towns, city's and the pursuit's of heavy industrial factory's rather than rural community's.
Sex God
The government was pandering to the interests of industry, or common sense?
Im torn on this one, and yet to make up my mind
And then this one, Is the countryside the poor relation as suggested?
Im torn on this one, and yet to make up my mind
And then this one, Is the countryside the poor relation as suggested?
Sex God
Could a cull be actually advantageous for the badgers
Quote by Bluefish2009
Cattle can be (I believe, not being a farm or vet expert) vaccinated against TB - job done. I have a feeling there was some objection to this as the vaccination shows up as a case of TB in tests?
I'm led to believe that no EU licensed vaccine as yet exists, and cows that are tested positive for TB using a fairly dubious test are destroyed at some cost to the taxpayer. ((( Farming being a massively subsidised and thoroughly socialised essential industry, which is kind of ironic when you consider the political leanings of quite a lot of farmers, eh, but that's a different topic? ;) ))) The presence of TB antibodies would prevent the export of live cattle to other EU countries.
The cull of badgers will be based purely upon economic considerations. As per usual some country types will nevertheless demand the wholesale extermination of a species and / or habitats that pre-date their commercial activities by some millennia,that would otherwise interfere with their methods as custodians of the country ways they often claim to be trying to protect. I can make some allowances for them, cos I'm sure a lot of 'em wouldlike to be doing otherwise, and are worried they'll not make it to 2015 or whenever it will be that the vaccine finally becomes available, but that don't mean I'm not scathing of their dubious methods in the meantime?
N x x x
I don't believe any farmer/countryman would like to see the total extermination of any animal or it's habitat, I would suggest, if I may be so bold, more habitats have been destroyed by the building of our towns, city's and the pursuit's of heavy industrial factory's rather than rural community's.
Well I might not agree with you about fox hunting bluefish but I certainly agree with you here and I fail to see how anyone cannot agree.
But how do we stop the building of yet more towns, cities, factories etc in the countryside? It seems to me that we can't. All we can do is hope that the population decrease.
Incidentally, I come from a city (London) but love the country!
