The first week in Jan, a date for your diary

5 Dec 2011

Quote by tweeky
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.

6 Dec 2011

Quote by tweeky
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses

6 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses
hasn't it always been the way that one mans rubbish is another mans gold :dunno:

7 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses
Is that the Selfish masses that were rioting or not paying cus they were significatly less well off or couldent afford to pay? But I actually meant minority as in singles living in bedsits, thats why there are not roads full of bedsits or shared houses.
How she ever expected to get away with the community charge I'll never know.

7 Dec 2011

Quote by tweeky
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses
Is that the Selfish masses that were rioting or not paying cus they were significatly less well off or couldent afford to pay? But I actually meant minority as in singles living in bedsits, thats why there are not roads full of bedsits or shared houses.
How she ever expected to get away with the community charge I'll never know.
I wonder why the same people didn't riot as council tax doubled during the Labour governments between 1997 and 2010? This increase was double the increase in average earnings, so they were all significantly less well off.

7 Dec 2011

Quote by tweeky
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses
Is that the Selfish masses that were rioting or not paying cus they were significatly less well off or couldent afford to pay? But I actually meant minority as in singles living in bedsits, thats why there are not roads full of bedsits or shared houses.
How she ever expected to get away with the community charge I'll never know.
Not sure what excuse they were using for there lawless behaviour?

7 Dec 2011

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pole tax was great, cost me much more money when those foolish people got their way
Our children still had milk at primary school, cost us a few pence a week

Cost you more and cost Thatcher her job. Bloody good job too and the last time the Brittish properly stood up for themselves. May have cost you less but cost many poor house holds more and rich ones less. Sounds about right for a Tory policy.
As a poor person at the time, living alone in a one bedroom mobile home, the pole tax was far cheaper than the council tax that followed. I did not want standing up for, I wanted my cheap pole tax, as did my father who at the time was living in a one bedroom warden assisted property.
One word, Minority.
Yes, quite right, more often than not they are the ones that require the most protection against the selfish masses
Is that the Selfish masses that were rioting or not paying cus they were significatly less well off or couldent afford to pay? But I actually meant minority as in singles living in bedsits, thats why there are not roads full of bedsits or shared houses.
How she ever expected to get away with the community charge I'll never know.
Not sure what excuse they were using for there lawless behaviour?
Dont expect they care. In this instance lawlessness won the day so it worked right or wrong.

Quote by Max777
I wonder why the same people didn't riot as council tax doubled during the Labour governments between 1997 and 2010? This increase was double the increase in average earnings, so they were all significantly less well off.

A number of factors I guess.
Minimum wage introduction
Tax credits reform
General rise in the per hour rate of low paid jobs
As someone who worked at the lower end of the job market back then I can see where the loss was counter acted or even wiped out totally by new benefits. I can recall when cleaning jobs were an hour, ours are now getting over 8 pounds an hour with other jobs in the area anywhere from 6-8 an hour. Tax credits have made the lower paid significatly more well off, not taken into account when looking at wage increases. Even at 40k earnings the amount of Child tax credit paid (545) now accounts for about 40% of most councils council tax charges. Simply put the poor/lower paid are better off than they were so they dont feel the need to protest. Most of the people I know complain more about banks and Gas/electricity prices than they do about council tax.
Other little things may help too i.e. anyone like me who was on a tracker mortgage :fuckinghappyemoticon: are now paying peanuts compared to 5-6 years ago.

8 Dec 2011

Not sure the minimum wage is a major factor but you may well be correct about the tax credit reform. That may also be a factor as to why this country is in the state it's in, paying tax credits to someone earning one and a half times average earnings is barmy. Basically, Labour buying it's votes!
As for interest rates, they have been kept artificially low for a couple of years now. Anyone banking on them staying at current levels is in for a very rude awakening.

8 Dec 2011

Of course there is a point of view that tax credits are a subsidy for employers rather than employees , facilitating the employment of people at wages insufficient to keep them and their children out of poverty.

8 Dec 2011

So a salary of £40k is to be regarded as poverty level?

8 Dec 2011

I have no idea why benefit that stops kids of working parents living in poverty is also paid at a small rate to any bugger with kids.

8 Dec 2011

Quote by tweeky
Dont expect they care. In this instance lawlessness won the day so it worked right or wrong.

Your quite right, I got that at the time,they did not care for all those on a low wage living alone who got shafted by their actions.

8 Dec 2011

Didn't they put a 25% discount in place for sole occupiers? And isnt the community charge roughly based on the value of the property occupied? I gotta say Blue, from your comments on this thread and others, your priority seems to be self interest rather than equity.

Quote by Bluefish2009

Dont expect they care. In this instance lawlessness won the day so it worked right or wrong.

Your quite right, I got that at the time,they did not care for all those on a low wage living alone who got shafted by their actions.

8 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
Didn't they put a 25% discount in place for sole occupiers? And isnt the community charge roughly based on the value of the property occupied? I gotta say Blue, from your comments on this thread and others, your priority seems to be self interest rather than equity.

Dont expect they care. In this instance lawlessness won the day so it worked right or wrong.

Your quite right, I got that at the time,they did not care for all those on a low wage living alone who got shafted by their actions.
I was a single man, living in a one bedroom, mobile home, on a low wage. The pole tax in comparison to what followed, was cheaper for me and many like me.
You mention the word roughly above, you right, roughly was correct. I can not remember now what the figures were but I was in the lowest band for my 25 year old, £300 mobile home, the same band covered brick built property's of a much much higher value.
Like I said, at the time I was shafted by all those poor people living in there big houses!!!
Self interest was very high on my priority list at the time Ben. It seams those who shafted me were not woring about my interest too much.

8 Dec 2011

Apparently the film depicts Mrs T during her worst bouts of dementia ....
this is appalling they really should have glossed over the 80's and concentrated on her retirement

8 Dec 2011

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
Apparently the film depicts Mrs T during her worst bouts of dementia ....
this is appalling they really should have glossed over the 80's and concentrated on her retirement

Very good Stags, of coarse there are those here that may find this kind of humor offensive lol

8 Dec 2011

I dont know quite how that came to be there.

9 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
Not sure the minimum wage is a major factor but you may well be correct about the tax credit reform. That may also be a factor as to why this country is in the state it's in, paying tax credits to someone earning one and a half times average earnings is barmy. Basically, Labour buying it's votes!
As for interest rates, they have been kept artificially low for a couple of years now. Anyone banking on them staying at current levels is in for a very rude awakening.

I agree to an extent about tax credits. This was Blair this was new Labour this was what I voted for. I am 37 with a family and take out more than I pay in as does our family as a total unit. Maternity leave, paternity leave, improved holidays, minimum wage, this was what Blair promised more time less work better conditions. That for me is obviously what he delivered. How though it is afforded or can continue to be afforded is another question. With the Torys now in we are already seeing alterations possibly interest rates may rise slightly to make the more well off voters happier but dont see anything majour happening with the news from europe over the last few days. In a time when we are all allegedly struggling higher interest rates just make the poor worse off and have little effect on the rich.

Quote by Max777
So a salary of £40k is to be regarded as poverty level?

No not poverty at all but dont forget to consider this is for a family unit. So if its one person earning 40k or two earing 20k thats still quite a bit under the national average. What the average now about 26k? I believe Child tax credits were already cut for those on 40+k to 50k

10 Dec 2011

The thing is Tweeky, interest rates in the Eurozone have just recently been reduced to 1%...that's still double what it is here. It's the Bank of England that sets interest rates not the government and as for higher interest rates benefiting the rich, there are a lot of older people that have been thrifty throughout their lives and have savings which they rely upon in their old age but they are getting bugger all interest on their savings at the moment. As you rightly state, all the Labour largess has to be paid for and we are paying for it now.
I'm not sure that I follow your maths re £40K being less than the national average income unless you are assuming that a household automatically has both partners working, which is a spurious argument.

10 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
The thing is Tweeky, interest rates in the Eurozone have just recently been reduced to 1%...that's still double what it is here. It's the Bank of England that sets interest rates not the government and as for higher interest rates benefiting the rich, there are a lot of older people that have been thrifty throughout their lives and have savings which they rely upon in their old age but they are getting bugger all interest on their savings at the moment. As you rightly state, all the Labour largess has to be paid for and we are paying for it now.
I'm not sure that I follow your maths re £40K being less than the national average income unless you are assuming that a household automatically has both partners working, which is a spurious argument.

Older people, no idea. Some have lots some have none some have it in the wardrobe or under the matress. I guess they are all swings and roundabouts just like the rest of society.
My point about the 40k is its based on child tax credits. I am gussing the larger proportion of child tax credit claiments are family units of two parents and kids obviously. So if one works and earns 40k or both work and ear 20k they dont have twice the national average in either situation. So I wouldent call that impoverished but it is under average.

10 Dec 2011

But not every family has 2 wage earners, in fact far from it, so the average income per family is not twice the national average wage.
There are many older people who are far from rich and dependent upon their savings. Low interest rates benefit borrowers not savers and that is one of the problems we have in this country, too many of the former and not enough of the latter. If rates were to increase to say 5% there will be a lot of people in very deep shit

10 Dec 2011

This is why so many people are so out of touch! They think they have it hard when they really don't!
This year I took home less than 20k and less than 10k last year, my wife earns just under 3k a year
40k for us and we would think we had won the lottery. Don't get me wrong, I do not begrudge anyone that money, in fact I intend to earn that much in the future, and more! What I do begrudge is a house hold with that kind of income getting help from the government!

10 Dec 2011

I agree.

Quote by Bluefish2009
This is why so many people are so out of touch! They think they have it hard when they really don't!
This year I took home less than 20k and less than 10k last year, my wife earns just under 3k a year
40k for us and we would think we had won the lottery. Don't get me wrong, I do not begrudge anyone that money, in fact I intend to earn that much in the future, and more! What I do begrudge is a house hold with that kind of income getting help from the government!

10 Dec 2011

Quote by Ben_Minx
I agree.
This is why so many people are so out of touch! They think they have it hard when they really don't!
This year I took home less than 20k and less than 10k last year, my wife earns just under 3k a year
40k for us and we would think we had won the lottery. Don't get me wrong, I do not begrudge anyone that money, in fact I intend to earn that much in the future, and more! What I do begrudge is a house hold with that kind of income getting help from the government!

I shall savour this moment for a long time :thumbup:

10 Dec 2011

I think, living as we both do in impoverished rural communities, we will share an understanding of the economic and social issues. I confess until I moved here I didn't really understand.

12 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
But not every family has 2 wage earners, in fact far from it, so the average income per family is not twice the national average wage.
I never said they did have two wage earners. All I said was 2 x 20k or 1 x 40k is not 2 x the national average. So althought they are not impoverished they are not considered wealthy Maybe familys on 40k dont need the tenner a week and if we listen to what Blue says then maybe we should be means testing child benefit as well? Torys had that in the pipeline at one time but not sure anything ever came of it.
There are many older people who are far from rich and dependent upon their savings. Low interest rates benefit borrowers not savers and that is one of the problems we have in this country, too many of the former and not enough of the latter. If rates were to increase to say 5% there will be a lot of people in very deep shit
I agree, so leave the rates low. 10000 savings 5% interest £500 a year before deductions and at 20000 its £1000 and people are going to live off of that? If you have 20000 and a state pension plus maybe a private one or a work one you can probably manage to get by. I always agree with the saying money makes money and as someone who has looked around recently at the market there are options other than straight savings accounts. Higher rates cripples borrowers helps the rich a bit and help the banks a lot.

12 Dec 2011

Sorry Tweeky but I fail to see the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that you anyone has to earn twice the national average wage before you regard them as being well off or are you just stating the bleeding obvious? dunno

No one expects pensioners to live on the interest on their savings but I find it odd that you regard a tenner a week to be a useful supplement to someone earning £40K but not a pensioner.
Higher rates do not automatically cripple borrowers, just those who have borrowed more than they can service. Just after I bought my first house back in 1983, I had to contend with interest rates of 13%. If rates went back to those levels now we would see financial meltdown.

12 Dec 2011

Quote by Max777
Sorry Tweeky but I fail to see the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that you anyone has to earn twice the national average wage before you regard them as being well off or are you just stating the bleeding obvious?
No one expects pensioners to live on the interest on their savings but I find it odd that you regard a tenner a week to be a useful supplement to someone earning £40K but not a pensioner.
Higher rates do not automatically cripple borrowers, just those who have borrowed more than they can service. Just after I bought my first house back in 1983, I had to contend with interest rates of 13%. If rates went back to those levels now we would see financial meltdown.

NO, have been trying to show its a sliding scale and never did say anyone who ears 40k should get it. Its kind of a mute point anyway seeing as millionaires can get child bennefit so all governements have been paying hundreads out to everyone for bloody years. Why all the fuss about a tenner when they also get, Eldest or only child weekly and additional children per child
Higher rates will cripple borrowers due to the rise in the house price market over the last 10 years. a rise from the current rate to just 5.0% I know the variation as I have paid it and its vast. Like you say yourself higher rates financial meltdown.

13 Dec 2011

I believe that benefits should go to those genuinely in need, not be universal.