OOh thank you Mar the numbers I would have liked to have had to hand earlier.
So 9.1 % teenage pregnancies in the 50s then.
And from kents data about 4.2 % last year.
Am I mistaken or is the second, more recent, figure lower than the first one?
Hats off to the governments of all persuasions for halving the teenage pregnancy rates.
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The Government and sex education
noooo!, now shush and leave the paranoia to me! 
Quote by benrums0n
OOh thank you Mar the numbers I would have liked to have had to hand earlier.
So 9.1 % teenage pregnancies in the 50s then.
And from kents data about 4.2 % last year.
Am I mistaken or is the second, more recent, figure lower than the first one?
Hats off to the governments of all persuasions for halving the teenage pregnancy rates.
Indeed, and there is still a few more years of data yet to be produced.
Quote by kentswingers777
I do appologise Mar if my replies to you were in any way intimidating. That was not my intention at all. So please except my appologies if it seemed that way.
xxx
Thank you, but there's no need to apologise, I suppose you were standing by your convictions.
I actually do agree with you in that it's not right under 16's have sex, but sometimes we need to walk out of our ethic box and look at the bigger picture to see what's best for the young people, and sometimes the best isn't always what we want to hear.
We're all mature in here and I'm not about to fall out with people because we have an 'agree to disagree' on something.
Ummm dunno if it is relevent... just thought that I would pop in. I have been giving my son sex education from the age of 9 well actually he asked what a 'suck blow' was at 7 so, I suppose it started then.
Anyhoo he knew from 9 how to put a condom on. My mentality was that if we go through it enough times that it becomes an unconscious act then there will not be an unplanned pregnancy that he is responsible for and he will be protecting himself from most STis. We both had (large) banana's to practice on and I told him repeatedly that by using the banana he got a fair idea of how big his penis had to be before he was old enough to have sex and also could see that there was nothing 'too small' about any condom. We increased the frequency of practice and I threw questions at him at random times to test his knowledge.. eg 'when do you use a condom?' (answer 'everytime you have sex') 'How long do you keep the condom on?' (answer, 'until my penis is nowhere near my partners genitals or ass') etc etc. There were also questions about contraception for girls but I explained to my son that the reason I was telling him that was so that he could educate his friends. I wanted him to be clear that he would only need ever use the Condom to be safe. If he was using other contraception then he needed to be aware of STi's.
I spoke to my son who is 15 and who is having sex with his 15 year old girlfriend. (it isn't my ideal- but he is living his own life not mine) I was asking him about his friends and their attitudes towards sex and condoms and it seems that their condom use is because of his influence (and out of my pocket initially) I asked him why he had sex before he was 16.. his answer 'because I loved her now and she loved me. We had been dating 6 months and felt that we had reached the level of intimacy that meant that we were ready to take it to the next stage'.
Much much better response than my 12 year old fumblings with my female cousin and my 16 year old quickie with my male best mate, just cos my mates were doing it.
Incidentally.. does anyone know the exact age of their grandparents or is it just me who was told for years that my grandma was 65 and people sort of talked around it... ? I found out when my grandma had died that she must have been 12 when she had her first of 8 children. She was raised a 'good' catholic girl and was married off at 15 and her two first children were returned to her when she married, from her parents who had 'moved away for their health'. What a sad sad life with shame that tortured her for many years and also ensured that her children were taken off her by their father when he divorced her as he had evidence of her mental health problems. (the evidence being that she was young when having her first babies). The fact that he was also underage was never seen to be frowned upon 'as men will only do what they are tempted into, by wanton women' (remember she was 12)
oh, I could go on and on for ages... but I weary of the constant depreciation of vulnerable people.
Anyhoo he knew from 9 how to put a condom on. My mentality was that if we go through it enough times that it becomes an unconscious act then there will not be an unplanned pregnancy that he is responsible for and he will be protecting himself from most STis. We both had (large) banana's to practice on and I told him repeatedly that by using the banana he got a fair idea of how big his penis had to be before he was old enough to have sex and also could see that there was nothing 'too small' about any condom. We increased the frequency of practice and I threw questions at him at random times to test his knowledge.. eg 'when do you use a condom?' (answer 'everytime you have sex') 'How long do you keep the condom on?' (answer, 'until my penis is nowhere near my partners genitals or ass') etc etc. There were also questions about contraception for girls but I explained to my son that the reason I was telling him that was so that he could educate his friends. I wanted him to be clear that he would only need ever use the Condom to be safe. If he was using other contraception then he needed to be aware of STi's.
I spoke to my son who is 15 and who is having sex with his 15 year old girlfriend. (it isn't my ideal- but he is living his own life not mine) I was asking him about his friends and their attitudes towards sex and condoms and it seems that their condom use is because of his influence (and out of my pocket initially) I asked him why he had sex before he was 16.. his answer 'because I loved her now and she loved me. We had been dating 6 months and felt that we had reached the level of intimacy that meant that we were ready to take it to the next stage'.
Much much better response than my 12 year old fumblings with my female cousin and my 16 year old quickie with my male best mate, just cos my mates were doing it.
Incidentally.. does anyone know the exact age of their grandparents or is it just me who was told for years that my grandma was 65 and people sort of talked around it... ? I found out when my grandma had died that she must have been 12 when she had her first of 8 children. She was raised a 'good' catholic girl and was married off at 15 and her two first children were returned to her when she married, from her parents who had 'moved away for their health'. What a sad sad life with shame that tortured her for many years and also ensured that her children were taken off her by their father when he divorced her as he had evidence of her mental health problems. (the evidence being that she was young when having her first babies). The fact that he was also underage was never seen to be frowned upon 'as men will only do what they are tempted into, by wanton women' (remember she was 12)
oh, I could go on and on for ages... but I weary of the constant depreciation of vulnerable people.
Report on the news has just said that teenage pregnancy rate has gone up for the first time in 7 years. Up by 2.5% in under 18's although up by 6.5% in under 16's. One school of thought suggests that teaching children the realities of raising a baby may have a better impact on preventing pregnancy than 'more' education. This appears to be achieved by utilising realistic dolls that react like a baby would.
Quote by fluff_n_stuff
Report on the news has just said that teenage pregnancy rate has gone up for the first time in 7 years. Up by 2.5% in under 18's although up by 6.5% in under 16's. One school of thought suggests that teaching children the realities of raising a baby may have a better impact on preventing pregnancy than 'more' education. This appears to be achieved by utilising realistic dolls that react like a baby would.
Schhhhhhhh......don't mention that on here, you could be accused of scaremongering or even worse than that, being in bed with the " tabloids ".
When the Guardian admit to it, then it must be true. :shock:
Still with all the sex education and now trying to get five year olds to learn about sex, it will surely go down
: Still I believe the system is working .....not. As I have said before....highest teenage pregnancy rates in the Western world.
It is a sad statistic that it has risen, as the children involved do not always get the best start in life....maybe.
My point today has been proven, that the current education only fuels even more kids attitudes to wanting sex. The figures do not lie......or do they? :wink:
well - I was a teenage mum - and we have 2 kids
With both of them - on any subject, not just sex - the policy has always been, if they ask a queation, they get an answer
This has lead to some 'interesting' conversations at times when, if i was honest, weren't when I would have liked them to be (trying to cook tea and be out the house for an appointment always seened to be their best time to ask) - but for me thats the point - as a parent if you provide an enviroment where your child knows they can ask something when they need toand get an honest answer - they will and do.
Information is the key thing IMHO - it allows choice and informed decsion - thats the best I can arm my kids with.
So, from as early as 4, I was having sex education type talks with my daughter - I was pregnant with her brother so the questions flowed for quite a long time
My son at the age of around 3 wanted to know why his willy stood up when he played with it - so truthful answers were given.
All times throughout both there lives - we've answered their questions honestly and in enough detail for thier age -
this often either leads onto even more questions related to that subject or questions about stuff thats not related in anyway and anyone who overheard some of the convosations that took place would be bemused by the way they would bounce around on different subjects.
again, MHO, you cant just tell a child "you can come and talk to me about anything", you have to show this by always answering honestly and instigating conversations when they can naturaly be done - tv news and programmes are great for topic starters I always found -
we've never 'sat them down' for 'the talk' about anything - sex, drugs, death - you name it, have all been just part of everyday conversation.
My daughter will be 21 later this year - because of the information we armed her with and the enviroment we provided for her
She's made the choice not to take drugs when some of her friends were and she's chosen not to have sex yet
Our son's almost 15 and again, so far is going in the same direction his sister has.
With both of them - they talk,we listen, we answer
- whatever the subject
I'm rambling - so i'll stop now - but good sex education, like any kind of education, isnt just down to schools and goverment - its whats taught at home that can be the most important
With both of them - on any subject, not just sex - the policy has always been, if they ask a queation, they get an answer
This has lead to some 'interesting' conversations at times when, if i was honest, weren't when I would have liked them to be (trying to cook tea and be out the house for an appointment always seened to be their best time to ask) - but for me thats the point - as a parent if you provide an enviroment where your child knows they can ask something when they need toand get an honest answer - they will and do.
Information is the key thing IMHO - it allows choice and informed decsion - thats the best I can arm my kids with.
So, from as early as 4, I was having sex education type talks with my daughter - I was pregnant with her brother so the questions flowed for quite a long time
My son at the age of around 3 wanted to know why his willy stood up when he played with it - so truthful answers were given.
All times throughout both there lives - we've answered their questions honestly and in enough detail for thier age -
this often either leads onto even more questions related to that subject or questions about stuff thats not related in anyway and anyone who overheard some of the convosations that took place would be bemused by the way they would bounce around on different subjects.
again, MHO, you cant just tell a child "you can come and talk to me about anything", you have to show this by always answering honestly and instigating conversations when they can naturaly be done - tv news and programmes are great for topic starters I always found -
we've never 'sat them down' for 'the talk' about anything - sex, drugs, death - you name it, have all been just part of everyday conversation.
My daughter will be 21 later this year - because of the information we armed her with and the enviroment we provided for her
She's made the choice not to take drugs when some of her friends were and she's chosen not to have sex yet
Our son's almost 15 and again, so far is going in the same direction his sister has.
With both of them - they talk,we listen, we answer
- whatever the subject
I'm rambling - so i'll stop now - but good sex education, like any kind of education, isnt just down to schools and goverment - its whats taught at home that can be the most important
Quote by benrums0n
Another thread that I tire of.
Your not going to query the facts and figures of that then?
You quoted that figures had gone down and I am only letting people know they have risen. I do not know the answers.....do you?
The facts are there for everyone to see, or as it comes from a newspaper you disbelieve them?
Quote by kentswingers777
Report on the news has just said that teenage pregnancy rate has gone up for the first time in 7 years. Up by 2.5% in under 18's although up by 6.5% in under 16's. One school of thought suggests that teaching children the realities of raising a baby may have a better impact on preventing pregnancy than 'more' education. This appears to be achieved by utilising realistic dolls that react like a baby would.
Schhhhhhhh......don't mention that on here, you could be accused of scaremongering or even worse than that, being in bed with the " tabloids ".
When the Guardian admit to it, then it must be true. :shock:
Still with all the sex education and now trying to get five year olds to learn about sex, it will surely go down
: Still I believe the system is working .....not. As I have said before....highest teenage pregnancy rates in the Western world.
It is a sad statistic that it has risen, as the children involved do not always get the best start in life....maybe.
My point today has been proven, that the current education only fuels even more kids attitudes to wanting sex. The figures do not lie......or do they? :wink:
Kent, you really are too quick with the :smug: I was right attitude. Read the article again. It clearly says the report was published early Feburary yes, BUT the figures (
like I said before) are based on 2006/2007 data. There is still scope that the figures of 2008 and 2009 will be more on target for 2010's projection, that teenage pregnancy would be halved.So, your point hasn't been proven today Kent, well maybe in your head it has.
Sex God
Hokily cokily, I've stayed schtum on this for now as it was a rather good read but now I'm here to spoil it once again.
I would like to put this rise in births in context if I may. It comes on the back of seven years of decreasing rates. Seven. Not just one or two. Seven. That is progress. Like it or not, the path to perfection does not run smoothly, there will be blips. This year may well be one. However to call it a disaster is just political posturing of the worst kind. Seven years of increasing bithrate and then yes, call it a disaster. I'll be right there with you.
I would also like to know, from all the people decrying the 'education' of children, what mystic knowledge should teachers and parents impart to them, that will have them fleeing to nunnery's in their thousands and vowing to be celibate until they are in their mid 40's? Please do tell me as I am absolutely desperate to know this paragon of sense that seems to have eluded me, and a great many others, thus far.
Do you really think these children, regardless of how young they are, do not understand the implications of what they are doing? Issues such as pregnancy, safe sex, STI's are divulged to children at an early age already (much to the anger of some it would seem). They have peers who probably know more about sex than we do, they have internet, magazines etc that will tell them everything they need to know. So it isn't a lack of education or understanding of this that causes this at all. To suggest so is naivety in extremis.
So it must then be the opposite. Too much Education? Perhaps the shock factor is not what it is these days? Bleeding heart liberals dressing it up as something ever so slightly naughty, so pop a condom on there's a good chap... Instead of reading them the riot act and birching them in public. So the answer then must be, don't tell them anything and then if they step out of line, tell their parents and lock them up until they are 18, in full time employment and have written a satisfactory essay on the link between sex, pregnancy, teh risk of STI's and Ghanaian foreign policy in the 1920's... Call me a weird old tool with a sponge for a brain and shakier reasoning than the BNP, but surely not telling them anything, is even worse? Are you not just asking for trouble because, as we all know and history has proven, many are going to do it anyway no matter who you blame and what you think of it, or what the law states? Teen pregnancies have happened throughout history. They were HIGHER, as has been proven in this thread already, throughout the halcyon days of the 1940's 50's &60's. Earlier than that in Victorian times teen pregnancies were almost at epidemic levels and such was the social stigma that there are some truly horrific stories surrounding it. Google, The Foundling Museum for more if you like uneasy reading about the good old days when values mattered so much. So much that if you were caught out it was preferable to dump your baby on the street to probably die, or smother the baby yourself to avoid the stigma. Such enlightened days. :-(
So I am yet to understand what the critics of what happens now are advocating. Please do tell. What nugget of genius information are people involved in this currently missing? The fact that if they do it the child will be ratted upon to their parents, flogged, beaten and locked in a room? God I love old fashioned values! They can sort anything, except reality it seems.
The fact is, in this case. It isn't the system that is flawed. It is the society we have. The culture we have is now for children to leave childhood as soon as possible to prove themselves to peers and adults. "I'm not a child anymore" how many times has a teenager said that to you. Having sex, like smoking, drinking and staying out late vandalising bus stops and childrens play areas is just another way of proving that to us, as well as being a two fingered salute to authority. Telling them any more or less will have NO effect whatsoever. History has proven it. Educating them can have an effect but it will only apply to some. Those seeking a cure-for-all are going to be sorely disappointed. No matter what the purple rinse, daily Mail toting, tabloid loving populace think. A return to good old Victorian values is precisely what it says on the tin. A marked step backwards.
The answer is already in place. It is being realistic given the current social climate. It is understanding that it is going to happen. It is educating children AND parents of these children as much as we can not to do it and encouraging those who are teeteting to stay safe and sensible, until they are MATURE enough to deal with the issue and all that surrounds it. You cannot force them to do this, it has to be a decision in the same way having sex is a decision. And no matter how perfect the education or system, there will still be those who reject it and do it anyway. Like it or not.
However, it does sell newspapers, and for that Rupert Murdoch and co should be thankful.
Pursed lips, disbelieving glares, tabloid headlines, Appearances on the Jeremy Kyle bear bait show so the aggrieved populace can show their scorn all make great viewing and reading for those who seem know all the answers and yet contribute absolutely nothing positive other than the jingoistic nonsense, mock outrage and moralistic preaching that turns more teenagers too shagging each other senseless, than off it. They contribute nothing to solving the problem and often, at times, exacerbate it.
Let's take a look at Holland, and in the report Mr Kent found to show us the appalling rates in the UK. Holland has the lowest rate in Western Europe. But hang on just one moment... That must mean Holland is pretty much a police state then? No kids allowed out after 6pm? Certainly no sex available, or drugs of anykind... Oh...Erm... Well... Lets take a look at the last paragraph of Mr Kent's sources.
"The much-quoted research concluded that countries enjoying low rates of teen births were characterised by, among other things, an acceptance in society of the sexual activity of young people."
I think I can see where we are falling down behind Holland. We need more sex, more drugs and more acceptance. Call me daft, I think we'll see lapdances in Parliament and Pot next to the tea bags before we foster any culture of acceptance in a great many in this country.
I would like to put this rise in births in context if I may. It comes on the back of seven years of decreasing rates. Seven. Not just one or two. Seven. That is progress. Like it or not, the path to perfection does not run smoothly, there will be blips. This year may well be one. However to call it a disaster is just political posturing of the worst kind. Seven years of increasing bithrate and then yes, call it a disaster. I'll be right there with you.
I would also like to know, from all the people decrying the 'education' of children, what mystic knowledge should teachers and parents impart to them, that will have them fleeing to nunnery's in their thousands and vowing to be celibate until they are in their mid 40's? Please do tell me as I am absolutely desperate to know this paragon of sense that seems to have eluded me, and a great many others, thus far.
Do you really think these children, regardless of how young they are, do not understand the implications of what they are doing? Issues such as pregnancy, safe sex, STI's are divulged to children at an early age already (much to the anger of some it would seem). They have peers who probably know more about sex than we do, they have internet, magazines etc that will tell them everything they need to know. So it isn't a lack of education or understanding of this that causes this at all. To suggest so is naivety in extremis.
So it must then be the opposite. Too much Education? Perhaps the shock factor is not what it is these days? Bleeding heart liberals dressing it up as something ever so slightly naughty, so pop a condom on there's a good chap... Instead of reading them the riot act and birching them in public. So the answer then must be, don't tell them anything and then if they step out of line, tell their parents and lock them up until they are 18, in full time employment and have written a satisfactory essay on the link between sex, pregnancy, teh risk of STI's and Ghanaian foreign policy in the 1920's... Call me a weird old tool with a sponge for a brain and shakier reasoning than the BNP, but surely not telling them anything, is even worse? Are you not just asking for trouble because, as we all know and history has proven, many are going to do it anyway no matter who you blame and what you think of it, or what the law states? Teen pregnancies have happened throughout history. They were HIGHER, as has been proven in this thread already, throughout the halcyon days of the 1940's 50's &60's. Earlier than that in Victorian times teen pregnancies were almost at epidemic levels and such was the social stigma that there are some truly horrific stories surrounding it. Google, The Foundling Museum for more if you like uneasy reading about the good old days when values mattered so much. So much that if you were caught out it was preferable to dump your baby on the street to probably die, or smother the baby yourself to avoid the stigma. Such enlightened days. :-(
So I am yet to understand what the critics of what happens now are advocating. Please do tell. What nugget of genius information are people involved in this currently missing? The fact that if they do it the child will be ratted upon to their parents, flogged, beaten and locked in a room? God I love old fashioned values! They can sort anything, except reality it seems.
The fact is, in this case. It isn't the system that is flawed. It is the society we have. The culture we have is now for children to leave childhood as soon as possible to prove themselves to peers and adults. "I'm not a child anymore" how many times has a teenager said that to you. Having sex, like smoking, drinking and staying out late vandalising bus stops and childrens play areas is just another way of proving that to us, as well as being a two fingered salute to authority. Telling them any more or less will have NO effect whatsoever. History has proven it. Educating them can have an effect but it will only apply to some. Those seeking a cure-for-all are going to be sorely disappointed. No matter what the purple rinse, daily Mail toting, tabloid loving populace think. A return to good old Victorian values is precisely what it says on the tin. A marked step backwards.
The answer is already in place. It is being realistic given the current social climate. It is understanding that it is going to happen. It is educating children AND parents of these children as much as we can not to do it and encouraging those who are teeteting to stay safe and sensible, until they are MATURE enough to deal with the issue and all that surrounds it. You cannot force them to do this, it has to be a decision in the same way having sex is a decision. And no matter how perfect the education or system, there will still be those who reject it and do it anyway. Like it or not.
However, it does sell newspapers, and for that Rupert Murdoch and co should be thankful.
Pursed lips, disbelieving glares, tabloid headlines, Appearances on the Jeremy Kyle bear bait show so the aggrieved populace can show their scorn all make great viewing and reading for those who seem know all the answers and yet contribute absolutely nothing positive other than the jingoistic nonsense, mock outrage and moralistic preaching that turns more teenagers too shagging each other senseless, than off it. They contribute nothing to solving the problem and often, at times, exacerbate it.
Let's take a look at Holland, and in the report Mr Kent found to show us the appalling rates in the UK. Holland has the lowest rate in Western Europe. But hang on just one moment... That must mean Holland is pretty much a police state then? No kids allowed out after 6pm? Certainly no sex available, or drugs of anykind... Oh...Erm... Well... Lets take a look at the last paragraph of Mr Kent's sources.
"The much-quoted research concluded that countries enjoying low rates of teen births were characterised by, among other things, an acceptance in society of the sexual activity of young people."
I think I can see where we are falling down behind Holland. We need more sex, more drugs and more acceptance. Call me daft, I think we'll see lapdances in Parliament and Pot next to the tea bags before we foster any culture of acceptance in a great many in this country.
Quote by JTS
Has anyone really contemplated the results of lowering the birth rate ?
I mean....less young persons, more old persons ?
Ignoring morality, which is variable anyway !
Agree totally, by 2021 the average life expectancy is projected to be around 80, we will then be more or less living twice as long as our ancestors.
Res.
As far as I am aware Holland had THE biggest pregnancy rates. Then the Government stated that anyone under the age of 21 having kids, would receive NO Government help.
I cannot be bothered to Google it, but as far as I am aware and been told, that is the case.
So we have gone from high figures to maybe the lowest. Common denominator? No help from their Government. Now if that is true, which I think it is, maybe it could work over here?
No automatic house, or automatic benefits. That could well contribute to a fall.....what you think?
As far as I am aware Holland had THE biggest pregnancy rates. Then the Government stated that anyone under the age of 21 having kids, would receive NO Government help.
I cannot be bothered to Google it, but as far as I am aware and been told, that is the case.
So we have gone from high figures to maybe the lowest. Common denominator? No help from their Government. Now if that is true, which I think it is, maybe it could work over here?
No automatic house, or automatic benefits. That could well contribute to a fall.....what you think?
Quote by kentswingers777
Res.
As far as I am aware Holland had THE biggest pregnancy rates. Then the Government stated that anyone under the age of 21 having kids, would receive NO Government help.
I cannot be bothered to Google it, but as far as I am aware and been told, that is the case.
So we have gone from high figures to maybe the lowest. Common denominator? No help from their Government. Now if that is true, which I think it is, maybe it could work over here?
No automatic house, or automatic benefits. That could well contribute to a fall.....what you think?
'Holland has the lowest rate of children born to teenage mothers across Western Europe - six times lower than Britain's statistics at the opposite end of the league table, writes Laura Donnelly.'
Take a look at this article Kent, you'll be seething!!
'Liberal campaigners in this country point to Holland's permissive health policies, including compulsory sex education in schools from the age of five, as being key to its success. While schools are free to design their own programmes, some of the most shocking initiatives have included condom demonstrations for 10?year?olds, trips to sex shops for older teenagers, and cartoon videos on how to masturbate.'
It clearly states that " minimal " benefits are paid to young Mothers, whatever that means.
I was under the impression they got nothing until over 21, and that is why they have such low rates. Or one of the reasons.
The facts are that young Mothers in Holland do not get anywhere near what they would get in the UK. I only suggested that was a major factor.
Quote by jaymar
Report on the news has just said that teenage pregnancy rate has gone up for the first time in 7 years. Up by 2.5% in under 18's although up by 6.5% in under 16's. One school of thought suggests that teaching children the realities of raising a baby may have a better impact on preventing pregnancy than 'more' education. This appears to be achieved by utilising realistic dolls that react like a baby would.
Schhhhhhhh......don't mention that on here, you could be accused of scaremongering or even worse than that, being in bed with the " tabloids ".
When the Guardian admit to it, then it must be true. :shock:
Still with all the sex education and now trying to get five year olds to learn about sex, it will surely go down
: Still I believe the system is working .....not. As I have said before....highest teenage pregnancy rates in the Western world.
It is a sad statistic that it has risen, as the children involved do not always get the best start in life....maybe.
My point today has been proven, that the current education only fuels even more kids attitudes to wanting sex. The figures do not lie......or do they? :wink:
Kent, you really are too quick with the :smug: I was right attitude. Read the article again. It clearly says the report was published early Feburary yes, BUT the figures (
like I said before) are based on 2006/2007 data. There is still scope that the figures of 2008 and 2009 will be more on target for 2010's projection, that teenage pregnancy would be halved.So, your point hasn't been proven today Kent, well maybe in your head it has.
Mar I really do not mean to be arguementative but.....I am not interested in " scope " figures. The fact of the matter is it HAS risen. Or are you denying that?
IF it has risen as the news suggests, that surely cannot be good.....as it has been falling apparently. Now we have a rise.
Do I have to wait till 2010 to be proved right then? It has risen and that you cannot deny, even with everything that is in place. Smug me? Never. :wink:
Right, the merry go round is making me slightly giddy- so I'll go back to the OP for a mo.
Kent wrote:
When, exactly, did parents know about their kids sexual behaviour? In the 50's & 60's? Erm, nope. In the 80's? Nope- mine sure as hell didn't.
Meanwhile, kids were still having sex.
What's changed?
They can now go & ask for help, advice & supplies without fear of their parents being told. Not a good thing?
Surely if they're doing it anyway- which we appear to have established- it's better that they're informed.
Kent wrote:
Should sex education be about what the Government says, or should parents still have the ability to know and be told, about their kids sexual behaviour?
When, exactly, did parents know about their kids sexual behaviour? In the 50's & 60's? Erm, nope. In the 80's? Nope- mine sure as hell didn't.
Meanwhile, kids were still having sex.
What's changed?
They can now go & ask for help, advice & supplies without fear of their parents being told. Not a good thing?
Surely if they're doing it anyway- which we appear to have established- it's better that they're informed.
Sex God
Hiya Mr K,
I was writing a reply before when I glanced up and noticed the time and had to waddle/sprint out the door to retrieve my neglected children from school!
As Jaymar pointed out, The Netherlands were at the opposite end of the league table to us... So I assumed that made them in the right place.
My understanding of the Dutch Benefit system is not what it should be I admit, however I would envisage that the European Commission in addition to all these doo gooder think tanks would not allow a country to have laws that place a young mother/father into a situation where they have almost nothing. Human rights alone would be breached.
In my opinion, where the Dutch have got it right, and we have got it wrong, is to take the stigma out of sex and taken it from being an act of rebellion and a rite of passage, into being something quite different to be enjoyed when the time is right and in the right circumstances. That is backed up from a young age throughout the education system and, one would hope, at home too. I would guess that the average Dutch teenagers attitude to sex is vastly different to similar aged children in that country. I would also guess the attitude to sex of the Dutch person as a whole, is markedly different to that of a great many in the UK too.
That has come from acceptance, tolerance, education and understanding. The very things that many seem to feel is "wrong" with our system. A system so flawed that in the last eight years, birth rates have risen once. Not perfect. But considering the terrible dystopian society we live in, as perpetuated by some aspects of the media and their ilk, I think that can be viewed as progress.
Don't get me wrong, it is not perfect. Neither is the system we use to seemingly incentivise people to abuse the system, but changes take time to implement. If you change direction and backtrack everytime something negative happens then you end up precisely where you started. It'd be interesting to compare teen birth rates in Holland with the UK to see if they have peaks and troughs, or if every year it just keeps on getting smaller and smaller.
And Witchy, Jaymar, I'd love to have your babies, unfortunately with this gut, and the fact I am only 16. I feel it would be morally irresponsible to do so. ;-)
I was writing a reply before when I glanced up and noticed the time and had to waddle/sprint out the door to retrieve my neglected children from school!
As Jaymar pointed out, The Netherlands were at the opposite end of the league table to us... So I assumed that made them in the right place.
My understanding of the Dutch Benefit system is not what it should be I admit, however I would envisage that the European Commission in addition to all these doo gooder think tanks would not allow a country to have laws that place a young mother/father into a situation where they have almost nothing. Human rights alone would be breached.
In my opinion, where the Dutch have got it right, and we have got it wrong, is to take the stigma out of sex and taken it from being an act of rebellion and a rite of passage, into being something quite different to be enjoyed when the time is right and in the right circumstances. That is backed up from a young age throughout the education system and, one would hope, at home too. I would guess that the average Dutch teenagers attitude to sex is vastly different to similar aged children in that country. I would also guess the attitude to sex of the Dutch person as a whole, is markedly different to that of a great many in the UK too.
That has come from acceptance, tolerance, education and understanding. The very things that many seem to feel is "wrong" with our system. A system so flawed that in the last eight years, birth rates have risen once. Not perfect. But considering the terrible dystopian society we live in, as perpetuated by some aspects of the media and their ilk, I think that can be viewed as progress.
Don't get me wrong, it is not perfect. Neither is the system we use to seemingly incentivise people to abuse the system, but changes take time to implement. If you change direction and backtrack everytime something negative happens then you end up precisely where you started. It'd be interesting to compare teen birth rates in Holland with the UK to see if they have peaks and troughs, or if every year it just keeps on getting smaller and smaller.
And Witchy, Jaymar, I'd love to have your babies, unfortunately with this gut, and the fact I am only 16. I feel it would be morally irresponsible to do so. ;-)
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
It clearly states that " minimal " benefits are paid to young Mothers, whatever that means.
I was under the impression they got nothing until over 21, and that is why they have such low rates. Or one of the reasons.
The facts are that young Mothers in Holland do not get anywhere near what they would get in the UK. I only suggested that was a major factor.
Aww Mr K! I've always wanted to do this...
I think you have a very valid point there, I wonder how many teen mothers get pregnant simply as a way to milk the system or to get out of a family situation that is not beneficial. A very very pertinent point sir. in Holland it seems that these "rewards" are not available and that is well worth looking at.
Unfortunately that has absolutely nothing to do with Education whatsoever. It is a morale issue and a legal one. That issue is not about making children see the error of their ways, it is about changing the system so the few who do cannot abuse it. These are two entirely distinct and separate issues albeit on the same topic.
You could argue that when these issues are combined, as in Holland,it seems to have the positive effect we desire to see here.
Interestingly enough, one of the big positives seen in Holland was that the sexual education of children was nowhere near as politically driven and motivated as here in the UK. Strange isn't it what consistency can do eh? ;-)
I would also state that benefits are not the SOLE reason rates or low, and I would question the validity of saying it is the MAJOR factor. That is conjecture. However they are worth looking at further.
Nice post Res.
I believe that educating kids, be it from being a good child and knowing about boundaries, to sex education, through to a wide variety of subjects, should be first and foremost a parental responsibilty.
Parents...well a lot of them, expect the schools and other bodies, to do their job for them.
Parents have a responsibility to educate their kids about a whole manner of things....life skills if you like.
I am going to a parents evening tonight and if last year was anything to go by, only half the parents bothered to turn up. That says a lot to me.
A lot of the parents have had their rights taken away from them, by lefties who think they know better, than a parent. Give back parenting to the parents, make the parents more responsible, not only for their kids well being, but also their own responsibilities.
A parent is for life, not just for days that they can be bothered. Don't believe me? Well I know of parents just like that, who do not care what their kids do, or where they go, or how long they stay out till. They do not care if they are in school, or that they have a decent meal on the table EVERY night.
IF parents were taught like kids were taught, then maybe everyone would be singing from the same hymn sheet.
" can I have a paracetemol please teacher ?"......" sorry will have to ring your parent for permission " :shock:
I believe that educating kids, be it from being a good child and knowing about boundaries, to sex education, through to a wide variety of subjects, should be first and foremost a parental responsibilty.
Parents...well a lot of them, expect the schools and other bodies, to do their job for them.
Parents have a responsibility to educate their kids about a whole manner of things....life skills if you like.
I am going to a parents evening tonight and if last year was anything to go by, only half the parents bothered to turn up. That says a lot to me.
A lot of the parents have had their rights taken away from them, by lefties who think they know better, than a parent. Give back parenting to the parents, make the parents more responsible, not only for their kids well being, but also their own responsibilities.
A parent is for life, not just for days that they can be bothered. Don't believe me? Well I know of parents just like that, who do not care what their kids do, or where they go, or how long they stay out till. They do not care if they are in school, or that they have a decent meal on the table EVERY night.
IF parents were taught like kids were taught, then maybe everyone would be singing from the same hymn sheet.
" can I have a paracetemol please teacher ?"......" sorry will have to ring your parent for permission " :shock:
