The great divide

11 Feb 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
If there is no north south divide .... can I suggest a huge fucking wall

yeah with the northerners kept over the poor side of the wall

:rotflmao:
Funny I thought you'd said there was no divide dunno

er mr staggers.
you " suggested a huge fucking wall " i suggested putting the northerners on the poor side of it.
oh sorry i thought it was a game of humour. right :smitten:

11 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
If there is no north south divide .... can I suggest a huge fucking wall

yeah with the northerners kept over the poor side of the wall

:rotflmao:
Funny I thought you'd said there was no divide dunno

er mr staggers.
you " suggested a huge fucking wall " i suggested putting the northerners on the poor side of it.
oh sorry i thought it was a game of humour. right :smitten:
Could this be another North South divide? Humour and general attitude
Could some of this, so called North South divide be deeper ingrained than we see on the surface? Could it be an attitude to work and life its self? A bit like a self fulfilling prophesy? Looking in from outside, through the lens of the media, which was the only medium of the time for us, it certainly appeared to be so..
As a child and young man, I can remember sat watching the news with my father on many an occasion, watching strikes in the steel industry, car manufacturing industry, coal industry, etc, and my father saying if they are not careful they will have no jobs to go back to.
I feel some may possibly have had an attitude to working life that may have destroyed the jobs for their children and future generations.

11 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
[
Could this be another North South divide? Humour and general attitude
Could some of this, so called North South divide be deeper ingrained than we see on the surface? Could it be an attitude to work and life its self? A bit like a self fulfilling prophesy? Looking in from outside, through the lens of the media, which was the only medium of the time for us, it certainly appeared to be so..
As a child and young man, I can remember sat watching the news with my father on many an occasion, watching strikes in the steel industry, car manufacturing industry, coal industry, etc, and my father saying if they are not careful they will have no jobs to go back to.
I feel some may possibly have had an attitude to working life that may have destroyed the jobs for their children and future generations.

yea..I remember sitting watching the News and my father saying saying Mrs Thatcher wants to simply close every pit and foundry so there are no jobs left for furure generations.
People have a right to stand up for what they believe in. Maybe some would rather we scrap the minimum wage and have kids working for £1 an hour maybe !!
Maybe thats where the North/South divide really is. Those of us North of Watford Gap know what industry was, and we know how hard those guys worked, and the conditions they quite often had to endure. Whilst maybe those in the South can sit behind there desks, working in the banking and insurance industries, and gamble away all the money made !!!

11 Feb 2012

Quote by deancannock
yea..I remember sitting watching the News and my father saying saying Mrs Thatcher wants to simply close every pit and foundry so there are no jobs left for furure generations.

i do love a bit of scaremongering dean blink

in todays financial problems that we face created in the main by the last labour government, how would peeple feel today about millions and millions of pounds being spent keeping open mines that were losing millions of pounds ? the mines were losing money back then ( lots of it ) and the unions were not prepared to close any of them. then the miners strike and the rest is history as they say. there is a long history about the miners strike and it would seem even now the truth is distorted as to the extent of it.
i bet in 100 yeers time peeple up north will still be telling stories of that horrid old witch thatcher. it should be taught in schools past watford :thumbup: come to think of it, it probably is.

Quote by deancannock
People have a right to stand up for what they believe in. Maybe some would rather we scrap the minimum wage and have kids working for £1 an hour maybe !!

same old argument i am afraid dean. name me one single person who is asking for that banghead

can you name anyone confused

Quote by deancannock
Maybe thats where the North/South divide really is. Those of us North of Watford Gap know what industry was, and we know how hard those guys worked, and the conditions they quite often had to endure. Whilst maybe those in the South can sit behind there desks, working in the banking and insurance industries, and gamble away all the money made !!!

ah right dean another bit of scaremongering.
can you remember the strikes in the car industry at british layland? can you actually remember the miners strike dean? all hapened up north dean or most of it anyways.
now we head down south, that horrid nasty place south of watford.
we also had miners on strike in the south also had the biggest car making facilities at ford in dagenham. we also had the printers at wapping dean. can you remember that dean? stop trying to lecture peeple on this so called north/south divide, when in reality it was no different down south to up north in many ways.
yes i agree that the south or london have the financial industry but let us not forget that without it and the vast amount of money it generates, this great country of ours would be in an even bigger mess. yes we have had to bail the banks out for billions of pounds, but over time they will earn this country far more money than anything else can.
oh and for the record dean, do you know what happened to that great car industry in the south? it was at dagenham dean. FORD. where is that now dean? gone forever. no car industry in the south now dean. but up north dean? ah right. not as bad as some would let others beleeve dean i am afraid./
this little link here dean states that at leest the car industry is doing very well ABOVE watford .

11 Feb 2012

Quote by deancannock

I live quite a bit south of London, a long way from where all the money is made, I do get to sit in my office of an evening, after a full days manual work, I then start the phone-calls to customers and emails to manufacturers, suppliers, etc.

11 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009

I live quite a bit south of London, a long way from where all the money is made, I do get to sit in my office of an evening, after a full days manual work, I then start the phone-calls to customers and emails to manufacturers, suppliers, etc.
not forgeting blue that we all talk ilke something out of mary popins and the steets are all paved with gold .................erm well they was before brown sold the pavements at a fraction of what they was worth

12 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
i do love a bit of scaremongering dean
in todays financial problems that we face created in the main by the last labour government, how would peeple feel today about millions and millions of pounds being spent keeping open mines that were losing millions of pounds ? the mines were losing money back then ( lots of it ) and the unions were not prepared to close any of them. then the miners strike and the rest is history as they say. there is a long history about the miners strike and it would seem even now the truth is distorted as to the extent of it.
i bet in 100 yeers time peeple up north will still be telling stories of that horrid old witch thatcher. it should be taught in schools past watford :thumbup: come to think of it, it probably is.
Please don't try and tell me about the mining industry and its history. As you can guess from my name I am from cannock and we used to have 9 pits here. Littleton pit ( where my great granddfather and grandfather both worked and both lost arms in rock falls ; where both my father and brother worked) being the most productive and profitable in all of Europe. Mrs Thatcher choose to close it. 90% of the british pits at that time were in profit. It was just that you could get cheaper coal from Poland as it was subsidised by its government !! So no we weren't losing millions by keeping them open. It has in reality cost us millions in paying those workers unemployment benieft thou. Oh and we have lost another couple of million in lost tax, as being unemployed they don't pay it !!! No distortion there...fact and truth. Cannock used to have a great mining industry....now all we have is history !!
Maybe thats where the North/South divide really is. Those of us North of Watford Gap know what industry was, and we know how hard those guys worked, and the conditions they quite often had to endure. Whilst maybe those in the South can sit behind there desks, working in the banking and insurance industries, and gamble away all the money made !!!

ah right dean another bit of scaremongering.
Where is the scaremongering there...they gambled our money....and we have had to bail them out !!!
yes i agree that the south or london have the financial industry but let us not forget that without it and the vast amount of money it generates, this great country of ours would be in an even bigger mess. yes we have had to bail the banks out for billions of pounds, but over time they will earn this country far more money than anything else can.
oh slight change of stance here star...in all previous comments on other threads, it was wrong of Brown to put us in debt by bailing out these hard working financial people !! they did generate millions and have now taken us for Billions...
Seems funny really...we are willing to bail out to the tune of Billions, bankers that lost their money gambling with our money....yet we were weren't willing to allow pits to stay open that were making money, just because we could buy cheaper imports !!!

12 Feb 2012

Quote by deancannock
oh slight change of stance here star...in all previous comments on other threads, it was wrong of Brown to put us in debt by bailing out these hard working financial people !! they did generate millions and have now taken us for Billions...
Seems funny really...we are willing to bail out to the tune of Billions, bankers that lost their money gambling with our money....yet we were weren't willing to allow pits to stay open that were making money, just because we could buy cheaper imports !!!

as the highlighted bit shows dean, millions? i think the banks have made us billions. the financial industry we now have in the uk will in time get back all of the money and a heck of a lot more. dont confuse me though dean with someone who has any sympathy for the banks or their workers. i dont.
not going to get into a long drawn out debate about the mining history, as i know this has been done to death on here with not an outright winner.
what i will say though is it was not just thatchers fault but the miners leeder as well who it would seem put his own feelings of hate of thatcher way above the feelings of his members, who in the end were left with nothing.
peeple still blame thatcher for everything it seems with nobody else taking any of the blame. the miners leeder refused to accept any change in the industry and then when thatcher saw her chance, she took it.
in 2012 dean is there a call for coal? would the indusrty survive in todays market? at the same rate it was producing coal in the 70's or 80's? somehow i think not as there are cleener fuels. so thatcher was right after all that the industry would not survive in its current form so it needs change.:notes:
it was not only cannock that lost pits my friend. there were a few in the south that suffered as well.
a brilliant piece of journalism dean this link which if you read all of it , you will see that scargill and the " scabs " were certainly not on the same side, yet belonged to the same union. who was right?

" By far the biggest liability for the strikers was their leader, the NUM president Arthur Scargill ".

12 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
as the highlighted bit shows dean, millions? i think the banks have made us billions. the financial industry we now have in the uk will in time get back all of the money and a heck of a lot more. dont confuse me though dean with someone who has any sympathy for the banks or their workers. i dont.
not going to get into a long drawn out debate about the mining history, as i know this has been done to death on here with not an outright winner.
what i will say though is it was not just thatchers fault but the miners leeder as well who it would seem put his own feelings of hate of thatcher way above the feelings of his members, who in the end were left with nothing.
peeple still blame thatcher for everything it seems with nobody else taking any of the blame. the miners leeder refused to accept any change in the industry and then when thatcher saw her chance, she took it.
in 2012 dean is there a call for coal? would the indusrty survive in todays market? at the same rate it was producing coal in the 70's or 80's? somehow i think not as there are cleener fuels. so thatcher was right after all that the industry would not survive in its current form so it needs change.:notes:
it was not only cannock that lost pits my friend. there were a few in the south that suffered as well.
a brilliant piece of journalism dean this link which if you read all of it , you will see that scargill and the " scabs " were certainly not on the same side, yet belonged to the same union. who was right?

" By far the biggest liability for the strikers was their leader, the NUM president Arthur Scargill ".

Oh dear ....The miners strike has indeed been done to death,and you still fail to grasp a few facts about it ....
1: Scargill did not start the strike,it started at grass roots level when miners walked out in protest at plans for pit closures
2:The N.U.M. had agreed a timetable for closures and rationalisation with the government Thatcher and MacGreggor reneged on this deal and decided unilaterally to speed up and increase the number of closures...hence the walkouts
Thatcher forced the strikes in both the coal and steel industries ... earlier in the thread you question someone elses memory of and grasp of modern history ... you really really need to stop throwing those stones old boy.
Re. Thatcher ..... If your best hope for gold at the world arse kicking championships twists his ankle,the best course of action is to strap it up and start physiotherapy,amputation will not bring home the gold.
P.S. Demand ... demand for coal is as high as ever, new clean burning, coal fired power stations are cheaper and in many ways more viable than nuclear power ,North seas gas reserves are running out, we are increasingly dependant on imports for our fuel,we have massive reserves of coal still available .... seems the old bitch wasn't quite as long sighted as you believe

12 Feb 2012

The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!
The best place for coal is in the ground with its carbon still intact. Now we must work on more planet friendly ways to make our electric

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!
The best place for coal is in the ground with its carbon still intact. Now we must work on more planet friendly ways to make our electric

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!
The best place for coal is in the ground with its carbon still intact. Now we must work on more planet friendly ways to make our electric

Whilst I concur that the pits were expensive to run, in the long term they weren't. the reasoning behind this is as follows;
Coal Fired Power Stations require coal for energy to make steam to drive the turbines and so produce electricity. This coal they have to buy and in doing so charges it back to the consumer.
If we produced the coal OUR labour force would be paid instead of claiming unemployment benefit and thereby OUR miners would contribute to the exchequer. Our miners would be employed and would have bought up their children as an employed family instead of out of work, which has passed to the children and then to their children. Cycle of living on the dole started in the early 80's at the end of the miners strike and the closing of the pits.
Also these miners had respect and self esteem. I have seen towns decimated due to the wasteland caused by the pit closures. It is just hypothesis but maybe this self esteem and respect would have passed to the children causing a generation to grow up wanting to work instead of wanting to withdraw their income support.
Unfortunately the cost of providing income support + the restructuring of towns and facilities + the closure themselves + add to it the cost of coal being imported....is a hell of a lot more than it costs for our own men to have dug it out the ground and kept supplying to the power stations.
We require coal and will do for many years to come! closing a business such as the pits without thinking of the long term effects was criminal. Short term thinking at its best!

12 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!

yes that is correct bluefish. some would say that some pits were indeed making money, but there is no way that the NUM with scargill at the helm was ever going to admit that one. they or should i say he ( scargill ), wanted NO pits to close and no loss of jobs EVER. with attitudes like that is it any wonder the NUM went downhill fast once the strikes were over. and there membership numbers are now?
let others have there own way with things bluefish, but the facts of how mr scargill destroyed the miners through his own desperation to defeat thatcher is there for all to see. he took his glass eye off the ball and thatcher won. it reely is as simple as that.
losing a fight in any circumstances can leeve many peeple with a nasty taste in there mouths for many a yeer.:notes:
No Blue not correct it wasn't that simple...things never are ...
There was a timetable in place agreed with the N.U.M. for pit closures ffs!!!! this would strongly suggest that they had admitted that some pits were no longer viable ..... try and actually get past your rabid loathing of Scargill to the FACTS ... repeating something does not make it true whatever you may think about Scargill and the miners the strike was FORCED by Thatchers refusal to negotiate on her rejection of an existing agreement.

12 Feb 2012

From Wikipedia:
"n 2007, 16,309,730 tonnes of coal were produced in the United Kingdom. In the United Kingdom coal is mined from both deep mines and surface mines. The majority of coal produced in England comes from underground mines, in Scotland most coal is mined from open-pit mines.
UK Coal is the United Kingdom’s largest coal mining company, producing approximately 8.7 million tonnes of coal annually from deep mines and surface mines, and possesses estimated reserves in excess of 200 million tonnes of coal. Total proved coal reserves in the United Kingdom are estimated at 220 million tonnes, although possible reserves could exceed 1 billion tonnes."
Also from the same source.
"Coal mining in the United Kingdom probably dates to Roman times and took place in many different parts of the country. Britain's coalfields are associated with Northumberland and Durham, North and South Wales, Yorkshire, Scotland, Lancashire, the East and West Midlands and Kent. During the 1980s and 1990s the industry was scaled back considerably. In 2011 there are deep mines at Kellingley Colliery in Yorkshire, and Daw Mill Colliery, Warwickshire both run by UK Coal. Maltby colliery is a deep mine near Rotherham owned and operated by Hargreaves Services PLC. There are numerous open cast mines in the UK."
"Estimated reserves of 200 MILLION TONNES." These should still belong to the UK people - but now they do not. I don't care who you hold responsible for that - the miners, Scargill or Thatcher - not one of them had the right to destroy then sell off our resources.
Hargreaves plc (mentioned above) shares are currently over £11 each. The death of the UK-owned coal industry was the collateral damage in a fight between 2 megalomaniacs trying to destroy each other. The union, management AND the governemtn should have been working together to make UK coal industry the leaders in the industry. They chose not to do that - they are jointly to blame for the fact that we no longer own one of the key raw material supplies that any self-sufficient country needs to survive.

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The pits were not economically viable. Coal was available from other sources, cheaper than we could get it out of the ground. Simple as that!
The best place for coal is in the ground with its carbon still intact. Now we must work on more planet friendly ways to make our electric

Somepits were not profitable .... the cheaper imports were heavily subsidised by their governments .... most of the non profitable pits required investment not closure
Coal is a valuable asset,new technology allows it to be burnt with minimum environmental impact,it has because of the actions of a certain government been rendered far more expensive to mine than it could have been,leaving us at the mercy of gazprom for our energy supplies....go on admit it she fucked up royally
I personally do not believe she made a mistake. This is how I see it and this is my take on it.
Firstly the unions and shop stewards were, in my view overstepping the mark and had been for some time. Successive Labour and Tory governments had made attempts to get a handle on shop stewards movement.
militancy within the coal, car manufacturing, engineering, and the dock workers were a big problem facing Governments, they were moving from being none political to political. It was this militancy that toppled the Tories in 1972 and again in 1974. Now for me it is not the job of trade unions to choose our governments, that is the job of all voters not a select few.
When we look back now, many of the industry with continual militancy, unofficial and official strike actions are now gone. They slit their own throats. The damage that flying pickets did to there own industry, and other industry's through demanding solidarity is in my view shameful.
So after the 70s, MT was faced with an NUM that had the power to make or break governments, and Scargill was currently lining her, and her Government up for the chopping block. Margaret Thatcher, Norman Tebbit and Nicholas Ridley were junior members of Heath’s government in 74 so had felt the union's wrath before and had no intention of letting them do the same again.
In my view, the union reaped what they sowed, if you live by the sword you can also die by the sword. Scargill had no thoughts for the minors, only greed for ultimate power over Government. He bit off more than he could chew at the expense of the workers

12 Feb 2012

And yet the fact remains that Scargill didn't start the strike
the fact remains that we are dependant on other countries for our fuel supplies
the fact remains that it was the Thatcher government who reneged on existing agreements
the fact remains we have a fraction of the manufacturing industry we had in '79
the fact remains that we are a one legged economy
the fact remains that the unbalanced nature of our economy leaves us vulnerable to even the smallest of obstacles
the fact remains that Thatchers myopic contempt for the working classes has left us the one legged man in that arse kicking competition I mentioned earlier
Negotiation is not a climb down, it isn't now and wasn't then,had the old bitch not been so busy trying to prove she had bigger bollocks than any man in government we might still have a healthy manufacturing base to our economy

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And yet the fact remains that Scargill didn't start the strike
the fact remains that we are dependant on other countries for our fuel supplies
the fact remains that it was the Thatcher government who reneged on existing agreements
the fact remains we have a fraction of the manufacturing industry we had in '79
the fact remains that we are a one legged economy
the fact remains that the unbalanced nature of our economy leaves us vulnerable to even the smallest of obstacles
the fact remains that Thatchers myopic contempt for the working classes has left us the one legged man in that arse kicking competition I mentioned earlier
Negotiation is not a climb down, it isn't now and wasn't then,had the old bitch not been so busy trying to prove she had bigger bollocks than any man in government we might still have a healthy manufacturing base to our economy

I believe what she done was to put Government back in charge of the country, just like it is supposed to be, not unions, and rightly so.

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Bluefish2009
And yet the fact remains that Scargill didn't start the strike
the fact remains that we are dependant on other countries for our fuel supplies
the fact remains that it was the Thatcher government who reneged on existing agreements
the fact remains we have a fraction of the manufacturing industry we had in '79
the fact remains that we are a one legged economy
the fact remains that the unbalanced nature of our economy leaves us vulnerable to even the smallest of obstacles
the fact remains that Thatchers myopic contempt for the working classes has left us the one legged man in that arse kicking competition I mentioned earlier
Negotiation is not a climb down, it isn't now and wasn't then,had the old bitch not been so busy trying to prove she had bigger bollocks than any man in government we might still have a healthy manufacturing base to our economy

I believe what she done was to put Government back in charge of the country, just like it is supposed to be, not unions, and rightly so.
And you are happy with the result?

12 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
And yet the fact remains that Scargill didn't start the strike
the fact remains that we are dependant on other countries for our fuel supplies
the fact remains that it was the Thatcher government who reneged on existing agreements
the fact remains we have a fraction of the manufacturing industry we had in '79
the fact remains that we are a one legged economy
the fact remains that the unbalanced nature of our economy leaves us vulnerable to even the smallest of obstacles
the fact remains that Thatchers myopic contempt for the working classes has left us the one legged man in that arse kicking competition I mentioned earlier
Negotiation is not a climb down, it isn't now and wasn't then,had the old bitch not been so busy trying to prove she had bigger bollocks than any man in government we might still have a healthy manufacturing base to our economy

I believe what she done was to put Government back in charge of the country, just like it is supposed to be, not unions, and rightly so.
And you are happy with the result?
What she said
Oh and it's the people not the government who supposed to be in charge .... they are supposed to be our servants not us theirs

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
And yet the fact remains that Scargill didn't start the strike
the fact remains that we are dependant on other countries for our fuel supplies
the fact remains that it was the Thatcher government who reneged on existing agreements
the fact remains we have a fraction of the manufacturing industry we had in '79
the fact remains that we are a one legged economy
the fact remains that the unbalanced nature of our economy leaves us vulnerable to even the smallest of obstacles
the fact remains that Thatchers myopic contempt for the working classes has left us the one legged man in that arse kicking competition I mentioned earlier
Negotiation is not a climb down, it isn't now and wasn't then,had the old bitch not been so busy trying to prove she had bigger bollocks than any man in government we might still have a healthy manufacturing base to our economy

I believe what she done was to put Government back in charge of the country, just like it is supposed to be, not unions, and rightly so.
And you are happy with the result?
What she said
Oh and it's the people not the government who supposed to be in charge .... they are supposed to be our servants not us theirs
Indeed, it is for us to vote them in and out, not the unions, as I mentioned above

12 Feb 2012

the fact still remains.
the NUM brought down a tory government, that is how powerful they had next tory governemnt under thatcher made sure the unions would pay dearly for it. they did. she finsihed the NUM once and for all.
they fell under her spell just as the printers did at wapping with murdoch.
lured into a huge sucker punch. class a politics. she won and they lost, sad but very true, and to this day they have never recovered.
the NUM has how many members today? and scargill? from what i reed. a broken man still clinging on.
that is the only fact that anyone in 2012 needs to know reely.:notes:

12 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
the fact still remains.
the NUM brought down a tory government, that is how powerful they had next tory governemnt under thatcher made sure the unions would pay dearly for it. they did. she finsihed the NUM once and for all.
they fell under her spell just as the printers did at wapping with murdoch.
lured into a huge sucker punch. class a politics. she won and they lost, sad but very true, and to this day they have never recovered.
the NUM has how many members today? and scargill? from what i reed. a broken man still clinging on.
that is the only fact that anyone in 2012 needs to know reely.:notes:

Trouble is she won the demise of the UK manufacturing industry. The only industry that makes real money by adding value to raw materials. We were also providing a fair amount of those raw materials. Making money offering 'services' to other countries is a mug's game. It only takes a change of economic weather and they switch their service supplier (the UK) for a better package.
You think China is making money by playing Monopoly and pretending it is real work like our financial 'industry' is? No they are producing their own raw materials, using them to produce goods that they then sell to us. They are also now in a position to buy the raw materials from other producing countries - out pricing us for the few we need. Any idea why Titanium is so expensive for RR's aero engines. Because China is buying it up and using it to produce golf clubs at a huge profit.
Without value added manufacturing the whole financial side collapses - like a pack of cards. It becomes a global pyramid scheme. We could have had both - but Thatcher sacrificed it for her own, personal, glory.

12 Feb 2012

Quote by starlightcouple
the fact still remains.
the NUM brought down a tory government, that is how powerful they had next tory governemnt under thatcher made sure the unions would pay dearly for it. they did. she finsihed the NUM once and for all.
they fell under her spell just as the printers did at wapping with murdoch.
lured into a huge sucker punch. class a politics. she won and they lost, sad but very true, and to this day they have never recovered.
the NUM has how many members today? and scargill? from what i reed. a broken man still clinging on.
that is the only fact that anyone in 2012 needs to know reely.:notes:

So what you're saying is that it is perfectly acceptable for a small number of people with a grudge to render thousands jobless, to decimate a countries industry,and squander it's future in order to exact a petty revenge on a union ..... yaay for democracy

12 Feb 2012

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
So what you're saying is that it is perfectly acceptable for a small number of people with a grudge to render thousands jobless, to decimate a countries industry,and squander it's future in order to exact a petty revenge on a union ..... yaay for democracy

i think mr scargill through his own demons did the job perfectly well on his own mr staggers, with very little help from thatcher.
did the NUM with a small number of militants bring down a government that was democraticaly elected by millions?
i think you will find that instead of blaming just one person in thatcher for the unions demise, look closer to home with the leedership of that union.
after just looking on google he is as deluded today as he was all those yeers ago.
yaay for democracy and the downfall of a union that thought it could control everything with threats. :thumbup: thatcher had the biggest balls and the stomach for a reel fight mr staggers, and that my friend is what history tells us of a once great and powerful union, destroyed by a few.:notes:

the bit about the socialist labour party is frightening that a man with such views was once in charge of possibly the most powerful union in british history. no wonder he decimated it. loon

12 Feb 2012

Will you lot not get it???????
It doesn't matter a pile of shit of a union destroyed a government or a government destroyed a union - between them they destroyed a whole fucking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//storms off to watch the BAFTAs

12 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
You think China is making money by playing Monopoly and pretending it is real work like our financial 'industry' is? No they are producing their own raw materials, using them to produce goods that they then sell to us.

all true of course except you have missed a very crucial point.
china's industry pay there workers next to nothing. any business will tell you that the biggest outlet usually is wages. chinas whole wage bill for a yeer would probably be not enough to have saved woolworths from collapse.
paying somebody 1p an hour obviusly meens they can charge much less for there items. so they sell more items. simple economics.

12 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
Will you lot not get it???????
It doesn't matter a pile of shit of a union destroyed a government or a government destroyed a union - between them they destroyed a whole fucking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//storms off to watch the BAFTAs

I agree to a point. I however apportion most blame to the unions who were out of control and had to be rained in by some one. They were attacking Government under the guise of protecting workers and that was a lie.

12 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
Will you lot not get it???????
It doesn't matter a pile of shit of a union destroyed a government or a government destroyed a union - between them they destroyed a whole fucking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//storms off to watch the BAFTAs

I do understand your point .... it is wrong
The demonization of the unions is in large part the reason why so much of our workforce is unrepresented today ... it plays no small role in the decline of working class voting,it has a part in the ghettoisation of many and the decline in many communities .... in short it does matter

Quote by starlightcouple
i think mr scargill through his own demons did the job perfectly well on his own mr staggers, with very little help from thatcher.
did the NUM with a small number of militants bring down a government that was democraticaly elected by millions?
i think you will find that instead of blaming just one person in thatcher for the unions demise, look closer to home with the leedership of that union.
after just looking on google he is as deluded today as he was all those yeers ago.
yaay for democracy and the downfall of a union that thought it could control everything with threats. :thumbup: thatcher had the biggest balls and the stomach for a reel fight mr staggers, and that my friend is what history tells us of a once great and powerful union, destroyed by a few.:notes:

the bit about the socialist labour party is frightening that a man with such views was once in charge of possibly the most powerful union in british history. no wonder he decimated it.

I can understand how ,if taken as a single case,the downfall of the miners could (by the hard of understanding)lead to this miners are not an isolated case..the steel industry,shipbuilding,the motor industry ,textiles,etc. etc. etc. the destruction of all of these industries has one person at the centre.

Quote by Bluefish2009
I agree to a point. I however apportion most blame to the unions who were out of control and had to be rained in by some one. They were attacking Government under the guise of protecting workers and that was a lie.

And where are these industries now the threat of the unions has been removed ??? on their fucking knees if they still exist ....bravo Mrs T. an absolute triumph

13 Feb 2012

Quote by foxylady2209
Will you lot not get it???????
It doesn't matter a pile of shit of a union destroyed a government or a government destroyed a union - between them they destroyed a whole fucking industry!!!!!!!!!!!!!
//storms off to watch the BAFTAs

get it, agreed with it, and its even somthing i stated in a previous thread
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: