Quote by Ben_Minx
Written in 1910.
Bludy 'ell Ben, didn't realise you were that old
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Sex God
Quote by Ben_Minx
"‘Kind frens. We’re hall honest British workin’ men, but we’ve been hout of work for the last twenty years on account of foreign competition and over-production. We don’t come hout ’ere because we’re too lazy to work; it’s because we can’t get a job. If it wasn’t for foreign competition, the kind’earted Hinglish capitalists would be able to sell their goods and give us Plenty of Work, and if they could, I assure you that we should hall be perfectly willing and contented to go on workin’ our bloody guts out for the benefit of our masters for the rest of our lives. We’re quite willin’ to work: that’s hall we arst for – Plenty of Work – but as we can’t get it we’re forced to come out ’ere and arst you to spare a few coppers towards a crust of bread and a night’s lodgin’."
Written in 1910.
'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' (RTP) is a very readable account of how capitalism operates in the workplace, but in some ways it is also a very contradictory book.
I never said put a levy on all imported goods I said "discount goods manufactured/assembled in Britain" be removing the VAT element, something we are in a better position to do with our ability to recover the loss by paying out less benefits to the unemployed than many Countries can do as they don't have the same level of costs because thier benefits system isn't the same as ours, and just like other Countries already do by subsiding many of thier industries.
Sex God
there is also the thought that can we continue to create jobs inline with our population growth 
just a thought
just a thought
Quote by MidsCouple24
I never said put a levy on all imported goods I said "discount goods manufactured/assembled in Britain" be removing the VAT element, something we are in a better position to do with our ability to recover the loss by paying out less benefits to the unemployed than many Countries can do as they don't have the same level of costs because thier benefits system isn't the same as ours, and just like other Countries already do by subsiding many of thier industries.
Your suggestion of discounting all goods manufactured/assembled in Britain by removing the VAT element would have exactly the same impact as adding a levy to all imported goods.
If there were two identical products at the same cost price ( as you inferred in an earlier post) the imported one would end up 20% more expensive due to the VAT element. What is that then if it isn't adding a levy?
Quote by MidsCouple24
I never said put a levy on all imported goods I said "discount goods manufactured/assembled in Britain" be removing the VAT element, something we are in a better position to do with our ability to recover the loss by paying out less benefits to the unemployed than many Countries can do as they don't have the same level of costs because thier benefits system isn't the same as ours, and just like other Countries already do by subsiding many of thier industries.
Quite. It was a crap idea in 1910, and it still is.
Quote by Ben_Minx
I never said put a levy on all imported goods I said "discount goods manufactured/assembled in Britain" be removing the VAT element, something we are in a better position to do with our ability to recover the loss by paying out less benefits to the unemployed than many Countries can do as they don't have the same level of costs because thier benefits system isn't the same as ours, and just like other Countries already do by subsiding many of thier industries.
Quite. It was a crap idea in 1910, and it still is.
and is that your final say on the matter ben
i seem to recall from history books that the usa put sanctions on Japanese goods and made them more expensive, while making american products cheeper, so the american peeple would buy cheeper american goods.
the result?
the bombing of pearl harbour and japan and america going to war with the loss of one or to lives.
i think exporters to britain would be slightly pissed off if we started discounting british goods, so as to make it harder for them to sell there goods here. a great idea. :doh:
the result?
the bombing of pearl harbour and japan and america going to war with the loss of one or to lives.
i think exporters to britain would be slightly pissed off if we started discounting british goods, so as to make it harder for them to sell there goods here. a great idea. :doh:
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
i seem to recall from history books that the usa put sanctions on Japanese goods and made them more expensive, while making american products cheeper, so the american peeple would buy cheeper american goods.
the result?
the bombing of pearl harbour and japan and america going to war with the loss of one or to lives.
i think exporters to britain would be slightly pissed off if we started discounting british goods, so as to make it harder for them to sell there goods here. a great idea. :doh:
Well, it was a bit more complex than that !!
John
Quote by starlightcouple
i seem to recall from history books that the usa put sanctions on Japanese goods and made them more expensive, while making american products cheeper, so the american peeple would buy cheeper american goods.
the result?
the bombing of pearl harbour and japan and america going to war with the loss of one or to lives.
i think exporters to britain would be slightly pissed off if we started discounting british goods, so as to make it harder for them to sell there goods here. a great idea. :doh:
No, Japan invaded China, so America had an oil embargo slapped on them. No one was to sell them oil. Other resource embargoes were also issued but the oil was the biggy.
Quote by Mr-Powers
No, Japan invaded China, so America had an oil embargo slapped on them. No one was to sell them oil. Other resource embargoes were also issued but the oil was the biggy.
whatever it was mr powers, the whole point is that making other countries goods mor expensive while allowing your home grown goods to be cheeper, would leed us into an awaful lot of bad feelings.
a pearl harbour we may not have, but there would be a lot of very angry other countries looking for some kind of retribution.
Sex God
What we should do is not allow any goods into this country that cannot be proved to have been grown, made, stored, packed and transported to at least the same strict levels that our own are. That includes the local use of chemiclas or processes that are banned in this country.
That is hardly unreasonable. If they can still make their goods cheaper than our home produced ones - good on 'em.
That is hardly unreasonable. If they can still make their goods cheaper than our home produced ones - good on 'em.
Quote by foxylady2209
If they can still make their goods cheaper than our home produced ones - good on 'em.
well as a companies number one money source is usually the wage bill, how can many countries compete with what is the worlds biggest exporter, china.
i read not long ago that over 80% of things we buy in the uk are made in china in some form or another. how can we possibly compete when there workers get paid 20p a day?
i would say that any goods from outside the euopean union where there are laws attached, should have strict regualtions attached to them. like as an example matalan i think it was, was found out to be having a lot of there goods made in indian sweat shop for a tiny amount of money. how can a company working within eu regulations compete on an even playing field with foreighn competition, when competing against companies and countries that flout those laws that we have to adhere to so strictly?
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
What we should do is not allow any goods into this country that cannot be proved to have been grown, made, stored, packed and transported to at least the same strict levels that our own are. That includes the local use of chemiclas or processes that are banned in this country.
That is hardly unreasonable. If they can still make their goods cheaper than our home produced ones - good on 'em.
Like this one for instance;
Quote by starlightcouple
No, Japan invaded China, so America had an oil embargo slapped on them. No one was to sell them oil. Other resource embargoes were also issued but the oil was the biggy.
whatever it was mr powers, the whole point is that making other countries goods mor expensive while allowing your home grown goods to be cheeper, would leed us into an awaful lot of bad feelings.
a pearl harbour we may not have, but there would be a lot of very angry other countries looking for some kind of retribution.
So, have you made any plans to invade the Countries that do this ? France with it's subsidising of thier farmers, Russia with it's subsidised coal mines, Korea, China, India with it's low wage policies and subsidised industries, do you think we should put an import an export ban on these Countries, what have we done about the other Countries that do it, what did we say to Germany about it's removal of VAT on products made there ?
VAT is an internal TAX who should be able to object to us having it or not having it, many countries have NO form of VAT tax on goods of any origin.
Quote by MidsCouple24
No, Japan invaded China, so America had an oil embargo slapped on them. No one was to sell them oil. Other resource embargoes were also issued but the oil was the biggy.
whatever it was mr powers, the whole point is that making other countries goods mor expensive while allowing your home grown goods to be cheeper, would leed us into an awaful lot of bad feelings.
a pearl harbour we may not have, but there would be a lot of very angry other countries looking for some kind of retribution.
So, have you made any plans to invade the Countries that do this ? France with it's subsidising of thier farmers, Russia with it's subsidised coal mines, Korea, China, India with it's low wage policies and subsidised industries, do you think we should put an import an export ban on these Countries, what have we done about the other Countries that do it, what did we say to Germany about it's removal of VAT on products made there ?
VAT is an internal TAX who should be able to object to us having it or not having it, many countries have NO form of VAT tax on goods of any origin.
Have a look at this.
It may be an internal tax but not in the way you meant.
How long ago was it when you claim Germany removed VAT on German manufactured goods?
debating over whether we will reduce vat is never ever going to happen, so why bother debating it reely
to make ourselves competetive out there in the big world, we have to be able to sell things in bigger and cheeper amounts. i just cannot see how that is going to happen.
for me i beleeve that in 20 yeers time with the amount of peeple in the uk and fewer jobs, we could very well be in a worse state than greece currently is.
having a population of 70 million plus is great if there is work to support that, but there is not and unless we can find a way out of this recession, for me 5 6 or even 8 million unemployed in ten yeers time would not be an unrealistic amount.
the only way forward is to produce much cheeper goods to export, and that meens workers getting paid less. is that reely going to happen in a recession anyway?
if politicians have no idea about things, then how can peeple like on here have answers. cutting vat to a zero amount will make very little differnce i feel. we could very well be on a downward slippery out of control spiral, that could possibly even end up bankrupting us. over the top? we shall see.
where is gulson?
to make ourselves competetive out there in the big world, we have to be able to sell things in bigger and cheeper amounts. i just cannot see how that is going to happen.
for me i beleeve that in 20 yeers time with the amount of peeple in the uk and fewer jobs, we could very well be in a worse state than greece currently is.
having a population of 70 million plus is great if there is work to support that, but there is not and unless we can find a way out of this recession, for me 5 6 or even 8 million unemployed in ten yeers time would not be an unrealistic amount.
the only way forward is to produce much cheeper goods to export, and that meens workers getting paid less. is that reely going to happen in a recession anyway?
if politicians have no idea about things, then how can peeple like on here have answers. cutting vat to a zero amount will make very little differnce i feel. we could very well be on a downward slippery out of control spiral, that could possibly even end up bankrupting us. over the top? we shall see.
where is gulson?
we never going to be able to make cheaper goods.....as stated some countries use child labour...and 50P an hour working rate.
So..instead of trying to compete at that range, we have to just make better and better quality ranges. BMW and Mercedes are not the cheapest cars....but they do alright. Sony telelvisions are not the cheapest, and yet they still sell a few. Dyson vacumms are not the cheapest, and yet everyone wants one. Innnovation and quality are what we should be investing in.
So..instead of trying to compete at that range, we have to just make better and better quality ranges. BMW and Mercedes are not the cheapest cars....but they do alright. Sony telelvisions are not the cheapest, and yet they still sell a few. Dyson vacumms are not the cheapest, and yet everyone wants one. Innnovation and quality are what we should be investing in.
Sex God
i got a freind who owns a fishing tackle shop
about 6 years ago he was telling me that prices had dropped by 50% on a lot of goods because they was being made in china
within 3 years the amount of returns and broken goods had almost put half the industry out of business. now the prices have returned to what they was before or greater with most of the items now being manufactured back in the uk again
about 6 years ago he was telling me that prices had dropped by 50% on a lot of goods because they was being made in china
within 3 years the amount of returns and broken goods had almost put half the industry out of business. now the prices have returned to what they was before or greater with most of the items now being manufactured back in the uk again
Quote by deancannock
we never going to be able to make cheaper goods.....as stated some countries use child labour...and 50P an hour working rate.
So..instead of trying to compete at that range, we have to just make better and better quality ranges. BMW and Mercedes are not the cheapest cars....but they do alright. Sony telelvisions are not the cheapest, and yet they still sell a few. Dyson vacumms are not the cheapest, and yet everyone wants one. Innnovation and quality are what we should be investing in.
Well yes but, well yes I agree
Quote by Max777
No, Japan invaded China, so America had an oil embargo slapped on them. No one was to sell them oil. Other resource embargoes were also issued but the oil was the biggy.
whatever it was mr powers, the whole point is that making other countries goods mor expensive while allowing your home grown goods to be cheeper, would leed us into an awaful lot of bad feelings.
a pearl harbour we may not have, but there would be a lot of very angry other countries looking for some kind of retribution.
So, have you made any plans to invade the Countries that do this ? France with it's subsidising of thier farmers, Russia with it's subsidised coal mines, Korea, China, India with it's low wage policies and subsidised industries, do you think we should put an import an export ban on these Countries, what have we done about the other Countries that do it, what did we say to Germany about it's removal of VAT on products made there ?
VAT is an internal TAX who should be able to object to us having it or not having it, many countries have NO form of VAT tax on goods of any origin.
Have a look at this.
It may be an internal tax but not in the way you meant.
How long ago was it when you claim Germany removed VAT on German manufactured goods?
It was certainly before we joined the EU and just proves to me another reason why we should now be leaving the EU
One question I asked was "what are the current advantages of being a member for the UK"
The people of Switzerland are some of the richest in the world, by rich I mean standard of living, the girl on the swiss checkout has a better standard of living than almost every other checkout girl in any EU country and so on up and down the income ladder, Switzerland in not a member of the EU, the Swiss import more goods from EU countries than any other EU country (I mean in variety not quantity as they obviously don't need the quantity larger population countries do) Swiss products are sold in all EU countries and they are doing very well out of those sales, nobody refuses to import Swiss goods on the grounds that they are not EU members.
I just don't think the reasons we joined still exist, non EU countries are doing ok by not being members, the USA, Korea, China, India and others do not have any problems selling thier goods in EU countries, they don't have any problems getting EU countries to sell them products.
The "fair price" the EU offered does not seem to be effective, and some flount and ignore the regulations, I say again France refused to sell British Beef for many years against the ruling of the EU regulators.
Our farmers are still struggling to compete with the subsidised farming communities, products that are the same price throughout the EU are being sourced in other non EU countries like clothing from India, tech items from china etc.
Our % of contribution seem to have risen above that of many other countries
I really dont know why we are still members
Quote by MidsCouple24
I really dont know why we are still members
neither do millions of others mids. the problem is how do we get out? we cant and it is as simple as that.
when the next general election comes around none of the parties will be asking for that. the european union runs britain now in so many ways. our government is democratically put in by an election. the peeple vote for what party represents this country. parlaiment democratically votes to change and bring in new laws that we should all have to abide by.
then ether a judge or a member of the european courts, say our laws are unjust or illegal
how can a judge dictate what is right or wrong with a law that is passed through our system of the commons and then the lords? mids it aint ever going to happen in our life times of the uk getting out of europe. we voted for europe for trading purposes, and look where it has led u now in 2012. no politician in the uk has the real guts to defy them. cameron tried recently and then the smarmy arrogant french Nicolas Sarkozy almost blanked him as they walked past each other. how dare that little island that is britain defy france and germany :twisted:
our destiny is now not in our own hands mids. a lot of our laws have been crushed in favour of european laws by unelected despots from france and germany. they never controlled this country in hundreds of yeers of fighting, yet we now seem to be giving them control on a silver platter.
you are correct mids in that they need us more than we need them. we put in far more than we get out, and look what happened to ireland when they dared to not comply with europes treaty. they were forced into accepting it as if they had not the whole of europe would not have been allowed to proceed with frances treaty plans.
it is to late now mids, the damage is done. written into history by our politicians of the last 15 yeers. both labour and now cameron are selling us down the river just so as to not harm there own political interests. thank goodness we were not forced into the euro as many mp's would have done. we would now be like ireland and greece. our begging bowls would have been out and not 3 million out of work, but possibly double that. :notes:
i beleeve within 100 yeers the uk will not have any sort of monarchy. it will be a president ( probably from france ). that president will be one person with control over every european country. that president will be decided every five yeers by yet another unelected body. the uk will get that about once every 70 yeers. to far fetched mids do you think?
Quote by starlightcouple
snip...
our government is democratically put in by an election. the peeple vote for what party represents this country. parlaiment democratically votes to change and bring in new laws that we should all have to abide by.
then ether a judge or a member of the european courts, say our laws are unjust or illegal
You might find link helpful in answering that question.
I do not believe it is too late, I think it can be done within our lifetime, there was a time when I believed I would never see the Berlin Wall come down, that there would be peace in Northern Ireland that there would be a black man president of South Africa, that the Soviet Republic would allow it's satelite country members would be allowed to run thier own countries.
There are people trying to influence the Nation and the Government, there are petitions and groups on facebook and twitter that you can join and add your voice to the "get out of the EU campaign" they are not politcal organisations as we know them, they are not the BNP, Tories, Libs or Labour they are just individuals putting thier name down on the lists, highlighting many new rules, laws and discrepancies that our own Government would prefer to be implemented on us without us noticing not aggreeing with them but unable to do anything about them.
I believe the very threat of the United Kingom leaving the EU would cause such fear amongst other members can bring about a much fairer deal for the UK, leaving it would be better and probably cause the collapse of the EU, that is how much they need us.
It does amaze me that the power hungry, self centred politicians allow the situation to continue since the EU are diminishing the power our own politicians have, one would have thought that self preservation would assist the voters in getting MPs support for our departure.
I am a member of various sites against our continued bullying by the EU, I am going to start lobbying my local MP and senior cabinet members, the more that join the "get Britain out of the EU" campaigns the more likely it is that the powers that be will have to take notice, it only takes a few minutes to join on facebook or twitter or just google "get the UK out of the EU" or get Britain out of the EU"
If you agree with it, do something, it is simple, it might just work.
There are people trying to influence the Nation and the Government, there are petitions and groups on facebook and twitter that you can join and add your voice to the "get out of the EU campaign" they are not politcal organisations as we know them, they are not the BNP, Tories, Libs or Labour they are just individuals putting thier name down on the lists, highlighting many new rules, laws and discrepancies that our own Government would prefer to be implemented on us without us noticing not aggreeing with them but unable to do anything about them.
I believe the very threat of the United Kingom leaving the EU would cause such fear amongst other members can bring about a much fairer deal for the UK, leaving it would be better and probably cause the collapse of the EU, that is how much they need us.
It does amaze me that the power hungry, self centred politicians allow the situation to continue since the EU are diminishing the power our own politicians have, one would have thought that self preservation would assist the voters in getting MPs support for our departure.
I am a member of various sites against our continued bullying by the EU, I am going to start lobbying my local MP and senior cabinet members, the more that join the "get Britain out of the EU" campaigns the more likely it is that the powers that be will have to take notice, it only takes a few minutes to join on facebook or twitter or just google "get the UK out of the EU" or get Britain out of the EU"
If you agree with it, do something, it is simple, it might just work.
Quote by starlightcouple
debating over whether we will reduce vat is never ever going to happen, so why bother debating it reely
What a pointless comment.
What is the point in debating anything? Just throw in the towel and let it all happen. Surely the point of debate is to raise points, share opinion, educate and promote change? I am sadly seeing more and more of this attitude, and this is why nothing changes.
I saw the following in a thread in 'The Cafe' forum, and it left me open mouthed in my bewilderment:
Quote by essex34m
It's fine if you disagree, but if so, just ignore it and move on!
That's good advice, and it applies to all areas of life. :thumbup:
;)
Just re-reading this thread, and I despair at the above.
So it seems the general consensus is growing to be that if you don't like it, don't say your viewpoint, just shut up, be a good boy/girl and don't show any dissention, just toe the line.
A disgraceful viewpoint, to the point of being offensive.
Sex God
Quote by starlightcouple
our destiny is now not in our own hands mids. a lot of our laws have been crushed in favour of european laws by unelected despots from france and germany. they never controlled this country in hundreds of yeers of fighting, yet we now seem to be giving them control on a silver platter.
Who are they then?
Quote by essex34m
So it seems the general consensus is growing to be that if you don't like it, don't say your viewpoint, just shut up, be a good boy/girl and don't show any dissention, just toe the line.
A disgraceful viewpoint, to the point of being offensive.
:thumbup:
Today, DC was sprouting on about creating even more toll roads but no mention of changes to the RFL. Nothing like the amount of money taken in RFL is spent on roads at all.
When the Chirac Administration tried to introduce a vehicle road tax, the French gave a resounding 'NON', told him where he could stick it - and to show they meant business took positive public action en-mass and brought the road system to a grinding halt.
Result? No vehicle road tax in France.
Sometimes, the population have to make a dramatic stand to remind Politicians who put them there in the first place. Problem with the UK is that public demonstrations of anger are often hijacked by the militant left 'rent a crowd' and end up in mass demonstrations and serious public disorder detracting from the original point which fades into insignificance.
The last time, I recall, this tactic was anywhere near successful was the 'dump the pump' action in 2000 under the Bliar administration.
Shame it fizzled out in the end, but the Government were clearly shaken by the enormity of public opinion.
Quote by Freckledbird
our destiny is now not in our own hands mids. a lot of our laws have been crushed in favour of european laws by unelected despots from france and germany. they never controlled this country in hundreds of yeers of fighting, yet we now seem to be giving them control on a silver platter.
Who are they then?
The European Commission is a permanent unelected body of 17 people appointed by national Governments for 5 years or more. Responsible for most EU law, which passes directly into UK law, the Commission is aided by an army unelected officials(a sort of 'Uncivil Service'). The UK Parliament is helpless to amend or reject any of it. Such law is secretly made behind closed doors. The Commission President has a virtual veto over who becomes a Commissioner and provides "political guidance" to all Commissioners.
there is a good starting point frecklebird
the english woman catherine ashton is better known as " Baroness Ashton of Upholland ". well theres a suprise. :twisted: another tory toff.
Quote by starlightcouple
our destiny is now not in our own hands mids. a lot of our laws have been crushed in favour of european laws by unelected despots from france and germany. they never controlled this country in hundreds of yeers of fighting, yet we now seem to be giving them control on a silver platter.
Who are they then?
The European Commission is a permanent unelected body of 17 people appointed by national Governments for 5 years or more. Responsible for most EU law, which passes directly into UK law, the Commission is aided by an army unelected officials(a sort of 'Uncivil Service'). The UK Parliament is helpless to amend or reject any of it. Such law is secretly made behind closed doors. The Commission President has a virtual veto over who becomes a Commissioner and provides "political guidance" to all Commissioners.
there is a good starting point frecklebird
the english woman catherine ashton is better known as " Baroness Ashton of Upholland ". well theres a suprise. :twisted: another tory toff.
I doubt very much whether a Labour Peer would be a tory toff!
