Vive la France

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
You may wish to withdraw these further allegations about ME.

:confused:
Since you have been unable/unwilling to refute my contention about the legality of the situation as regards the expulsion of the Roma, perhaps the following reference might be of some help.
European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.
Restrictions on the right of entry and the right of residence on grounds of public policy, public security or public health
Union citizens or members of their family may be expelled from the host Member State on grounds of public policy, public security or public health. Under no circumstances may an expulsion decision be taken on economic grounds. Measures affecting freedom of movement and residence must comply with the proportionality principle and be based exclusively on the personal conduct of the individual concerned. Such conduct must represent a sufficiently serious and present threat which affects the fundamental interests of the state.
Seems clear enough to me that the French State have the authority in European Law to do what they have or am I missing something dunno

24 Aug 2010

GNV I have no interest in discussing the minutia of the situation.
This is primarily because of the baseless allegations you have made about me in this thread.
I contend that applying the policy/security clause to a "people" is illegal under european law.

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
GNV I have no interest in discussing the minutia of the situation.
This is primarily because of the baseless allegations you have made about me in this thread.
I contend that applying the policy/security clause to a "people" is illegal under european law.

Well, that's settled then. Why let facts get in the way of prejudices, hey wink

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
snip... (for clarity)
Yes,how nationality is defined is very interesting.
For example when we lived in Taiwan our children would not have been allowed to attend state school as only Chinese people could have Taiwanese did not mean that they had to be born in Taiwan,simply that they were ethnically them race and nationality were the same.

That's interesting because AFAIK, if you are born in France you are automatically given French Nationality even if the parents are from another country (such as UK). As there is no ethnicity in France as previously stated, the child is simply "French".

Quote by Kaznkev
perhaps brucie can comment better on Israel /Palestine,i think tho that there are non jewish Israelis.

Would be interesting to read his views.

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
I still think France is cocking a snoop at the freedom of movement inherent in EU legislation by using a loop hole. It will never go to court of course because the oppressed minority don't have a voice.
It was ever thus.

a voice for what bengy
to organise women and children to beg for a min of 50 euro's a day
i think that's below the min wage if they work an 8 hour day
tell me who are oppressed the women begging or the men making them do it
another bengy own goal classic i'm afraid :thumbup:

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Anti French? What a ridiculous accusation.
"There is no loophole. It is enshrined in EU Law, and so it should be, that the right to freedom of movement is forfeit in the event that an individual or group of individuals shows such disregard for the Rule of Law as to make such action inevitable. "
Are you sure? I don't think it is. However I would agree that the european constitution did little to recognise the rights of indigenous itinerant peoples.

freedom and liberty(see who gave America the statue of liberty ) is normally removed bengy when the law is broken
it's very simple even for you
under any immigration law sited in any country on this planet if you break the law you can and almost certainly will be deported
or do you agree with organised crime dunno

24 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
Declaring that they are from one country or another is also not particually useful.

Is that not the whole point of this thread, or have I missed something?
It IS the most prevalent of things.
Jeeze.
not sure i seen a passport with some where in Europe as a home country
poke

24 Aug 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
GNV I have no interest in discussing the minutia of the situation.
This is primarily because of the baseless allegations you have made about me in this thread.
I contend that applying the policy/security clause to a "people" is illegal under european law.

Give it a rest Benny and have an early night fgs..........tiresome.

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
perhaps brucie can comment better on Israel /Palestine,i think tho that there are non jewish Israelis.
Would be interesting to read his views.

No need to ask Brucie....
A quick Google always does the trick. :twisted:

Actually there are quite a few non Jewish people there, actually a lot more than I thought there would be.
Makes for a good read.

25 Aug 2010

so seems the deportation has started

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
so seems the deportation has started

Ty i am pissing myself laughing at the news story"John the Baptist relics genuine ,Vatican says so".
This may become one of my new favourite sites. lol

given your recent factual posts i thought this more fitting for you :giggle::giggle:

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Although my cousin(Algerian french mother lives in france)feels that their are "levels"of Frenchness that she will never the French/Algerian problem is something i leave to those better informed

The French/Algerian issue is indeed a complex one Kaz. I did some reading on this subject a couple of years ago and found that, outside of France, very little is known of the "war" in Algeria which lasted from 1954 - 1962. Many say it was the "Vietnam" of France as it had many similarities to the American conflict. In both cases, powerful countries were defeated by an enemy considerably inferior in means. I say "war" because the French did not regard it as such until 37 years after the ceasefire! Until then, it had been regarded only as a law-and-order operation to contain Muslim nationalists in French territory. But a war it was; at the height of the conflict in 1959, half a million French troops were stationed in Algeria and during the conflict, over 25,000 French soldiers died and probably ten times more Algerians.
Four decades later, the War of Algeria remains an open wound in France's national psyche.
In 1848 the French Government declared Algeria part of France and in 1889, the children of European immigrants in Algeria were granted French citizenship, as was customary. However, the French status was never extended to the Muslim population whose faith was regarded as being incompatible with French customs. This generated a tinder box where the Muslim natives had no civil rights but the European settlers did.
Its a part of history about which France is not proud. It brought France to the point of civil war twice mainly because of the French Governments' ineptitude. From 1946 until 1958, France changed governments 20 times. In the winter of 1958 there were rumours of a military coup. This was later put to bed when de Gaulle was brought out of retirement, made Prime Minister and granted state-of-emergency powers as well as being given a mandate to draft a new constitution which later formed the 5th Republic which exists today.
In short, after much wrangling and further blood letting, 90% of of the French population in France voted in favour of giving Algeria independence in accordance with de Gaulle's accord with the Algerian nationalist movement the FLN (Front de Libération Nationale). However, the damage had been done and the grudges were deep.
In 1962, 99% of the 1 million European settlers in Algeria, fearful of a threat of massacre by Muslims, returned "home" to France, but France was not their home any more. Other than politically, France was not their home, Algeria was.
The French Government maintained its special ties with Algeria. Hundreds of thousands of Algerian nationals who came to work in France as immigrant workers did not even need a visa. Many stayed and had to mingle with former settlers and even former Muslim auxiliaries of the French Army who had also been repatriated.
I think you can see from this brief (!) account where Kaz's cousin's mother perhaps features in the scheme of things. There are still deep rooted anti-immigration sentiment in present-day France between repatriated settlers and new immigrants yet, in spite of this, tensions have never spilled over the limits of democracy - Vive la France, the 5th Republic and Charles de Gaulle!!

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
but hey,knock ya self out finding links.

No actually it took about 5 seconds to find it.............not hard when ya know how.

25 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
but hey,knock ya self out finding links.

No actually it took about 5 seconds to find it.............not hard when ya know how.
Still on dial-up in the garden of England I see pmsl....

25 Aug 2010

As Rob is an expert at finding things, that commment may well backfire on you.:giggle:
Rob could find a needle in the river Thames. lol

25 Aug 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
As Rob is an expert at finding things, that commment may well backfire on you.:giggle:
Rob could find a needle in the river Thames.

Or in Jane Russell's hay stack (see the de rigueur thread).... or should that be a prick pmsl

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Ty G, i think this is what she means,neither fish nor fowl as they say.
However i would have thought Vietnam was Frances' Vietnam!
i seem to remember this coming up in Spiral,the best police drama ever.

Who is Frances? redface

pedantic bastard that I am

25 Aug 2010

I heard of Terry's but that's all gold...

25 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
I heard of Terry's but that's all gold...

Did you do it all because the lady loves ........
most definitely! :grin:

25 Aug 2010

While you ar at it mod team can you have a look at thi sthread too and see if the personal comments could be removed.

25 Aug 2010

Quote by GnV
snip...
As i said it is hard for us to understand a very different idea towards nationhood.i suppose an analogy could be drawn(very loosely)with the Jewish of Jewish maternal descent can move to Israel and become a national of that country,the cultural/religious definition overides you have Ethiopians and Russian far right skin heads both claiming to belong to the same nation.
Nationhood is a very complex thing,the idea of a nation state even more might make a good thread for someone to start.

This one is serving quite well in that respect if the OP agrees but it would be a shame for someone to come along with an alternate agenda causing it to be locked or withdrawn. :sad:
The concept of cultural/religious definition overriding nationality is an interesting one.
Could this mean that if a nation is predominately of one definition, it might be the source of disagreement leading to civil disorder. I'm no expert in this area but I'm sure others might have a more informed view about how this might (or not) relate to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict since you mention Israel and the Jewish Diaspora. Is it a factor?
For my part, I prefer a multi-cultural/religious mix where religious definition or ethnicity is of no consequence to the inhabitants. Can this can lead to a more harmonious lifestyle? It certainly seems to work in France.
as happens on too many threads gnv
deliberate provocation seems to be the weapon of choice
so i have decided to ignore such posts rendering the posters non existent
as i sure we can debate these maters amongst ourselves and allow such poster to talk to them selves wink

25 Aug 2010

I'd like to add gnv your inside knowledge of the french way of life is invaluable in this thread and also enlightening
thank you

26 Aug 2010

Quote by flower411
A discussion about Algeria and France is incomplete without mention of the Foreign Legion surely !!
After the second world war many Wehrmacht troops signed up to serve in the French Foreign Legion and ....as I understand it.... were used in the Algerian conflict...In return for serving in the armed forces foreign nationals were given French citizenship and if they desired a totally new identity.
In this respect the French state can be seen to be fostering egalitarianism but it could be argued that large sections of the french population will never accept the Algerians in their country.

Absolument! Its in the French motto, after all flower...

But the French Foreign Legion is still alive and well today. See this video of the 14th July celebrations on the Champs Élysées marching to their signature tune Le Boudin.
Did you never consider joining flower?
As one contributor to YouTube said "The Warriors of the Foreign Legion march at 84 paces/min "The Arrogant Pace of Kings and Emperors".
They are worthy of that. Vive La France!"
A terrifying fighting force indeed!

26 Aug 2010

the french seem to have a wonderful way of act now and argue about it later
the repatriation of the roma has been very swift with 100 camps already dismantled
i can only admire attitude of french to visitors : integrate into the french way or leave

i can see why so many Brits are eager to retire here with the added bonus of the french way of socialising

26 Aug 2010

The BBC article is very fair about what has been going on politically here about the Roma and other issues such as pension reform.
It's not surprising that Sarkozy's opponents are rattling the sabre just now in the lead up to the next presidential elections. The PS (Parti Socialiste) are still hurting after their very public drubbing in the last election when they lost significantly to Le Pen's extreme right FN (Front National) in the first stage leaving just Sarkozy of the UMP (Mouvement Populaire) and Le Pen to fight it out in the run off. The French are normally very good at tactical voting in elections but this one backfired somewhat as no-one thought for one minute that Le Pen could actually ever get near to forming an administration so they expressed their disquiet at the internal back biting in the PS by voting FN. Little did they know, a significant number of other people did the same! They only wanted to bloody PS' nose to show them who's boss, not destroy them!
In recent times, the back stabbing has continued. They replaced the otherwise popular Ségolène Royal as their leader with Martine Aubry, the daughter of Jacques Delores (remember him?). The vote was a very close run thing and is still disputed to this day. Mme Aubry is credited with the introduction of the 35 hour week in France and will fight tooth and nail for the extension to 62 years for retirement to be overturned. She is a somewhat dour character (a bit like Angela Merkel in some respects, some say) and probably better in the "back office" and for that reason it is doubted that she will stand for President, the PS probably preferring instead the more charismatic Dominique Strauss-Kahn (DSK) as a replacement for Ségolène who will probably not achieve the party's nomination this time round.

27 Aug 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
A comment piece,but one that presents an interesting view.i would like particually to hear GnVs view of her analysis.
It does combine the deportations and the veil but as this is the currently active thread i thought i would put it here.

It's a well written article in the expected Guardian style of course.
I can't say that I agree entirely with all of propositions but I can certainly see how the "politics" games has been played by the Government to engender a view without causing mass hysteria over the issue. The reference to Le Pen and the FN to suppress a perceived support is an interesting one and not a prospect that had occurred to me before reading it.
M. Le Pen is to stand down as leader of the FN (if he hasn't already) and his daughter (who is far more photogenic :rascal: ) is to take over. Time will tell if she is able to turn the events of the last election round and for the FN to discover a new era with her father taking a well earned retirement from the front line (no doubt he will continue to be there on the touchline, if not only for reasons of managing his not inconsiderable fortune invested in the FN).
But you cannot escape the fact that France is a catholic society where women traditionally take second place. It's not quite as bad elsewhere in the world where women are expected to walk a certain number of paces behind their husband but there is a reluctance - referred to quite eloquently in Ms Scott's piece - to accept women in the forefront of political life. The veil however is a step too far along the path of unacceptability for the French. French women may take second place in society but they should not be "oppressed", if that's not a contradiction in terms.
I mentioned the ÉNA the other day, the most famous of the grandes écoles through whose doors many of the French future "Officer" class pass. I have no statistics about the ratio between women and men in this more enlightened age but it may be worth further research to see if a more modern French society is also a more tolerant one.
The French are incredibly proud of their Country. They have a passion relatively unmatched elsewhere in the world - witness . Stirring stuff (if a little blood thirsty - read the English translation!).
To defend all that is "Frenchness" by having a post in the Cabinet matches in a way Labour's penchant for women's issues by making an appointment for Women in Whitehall. Both countries have their "sacrificial lambs", so to speak.
France is more vulnerable than the British Isles in terms of "infiltration" across its borders by "undesirables" I suppose given the geography. That's a product of the freedom of movement across Europe and the consequent closure of border control points. I believe it is right for a sovereign nation to defend its culture and to expel those who seek to undermine it or impose their own less savoury ideals.
Evening update: I note that the UN are pleading the case for the Roma and that Martine Aubry at the PS summer conference in La Rochelle is, not unexpectedly, rallying her troops by saying that the action by the Government is "shameful" but the French Administration is going to stand firm on this issue undoubtedly.

9 Sep 2010

It seems the EU Parliament have decided to take on France over the Roma expulsions:
read today's news
I think the EU Parliament will lose face on this.
In the interim period, it seems that Italy, Germany and other EU nations have already been expelling Roma before France's stance became more popular knowledge.
France - particularly President Sarkozy - is spoiling for a fight with the EU Parliament. The Interior minister has already said that there is no way that France will suspend its action. France is one of the founder members of the Union and earlier this year, in a spat with the German Chancellor, Sarkozy thumped the table and threatened to withdraw France from the Euro (a move which has popular support here in France - Vive le Franc!) and an alarmed Merkel backed down on her demands.
Telling the European Parliament "pour aller se foutre" (to go fuck themselves) would undoubtedly have much popularity here amongst the centre and centre right (and of course the extreme right) but the Leftie Liberals will no doubt be spraying pastis flavoured croissant crumbs all over their morning newspapers in café bars all over Paris.
There could be some interesting times ahead!
The battle of the titans may have just begun. Hold on to your berets!

15 Sep 2010

Could not get your link to work Gnv

16 Sep 2010

Sarkozy denounces EU commissioner's Roma remarks

28 Sep 2010

Interesting news item on Sky News today...
Especially for all of those correspondents who were decrying the French President's stance on the Roma expulsions...
It now seems that a Roma is heading for a field near you...
Having left France and re-established themselves in Romania, they have found that the UK is far more sympathetic to their human rights and with excellent social benefits to boot, they are on their way!
These are not illegals of course, they are Roma - EU citizens and quite entitled to settle in a European country of their choice... particularly one which welcomes their illegal camps, child prostitution and exploitation of women as sex slaves.
Well, that IS what a number of you implied in the thread, wasn't it?