Ok - I'm not looking for a definition of racism here. But we often discuss race, genrally in the context of racism. But what actaully would we define as someone's race?
My own view is that we use the word race to cover a wide and varied set of characteristics. And I'm not sure there is a single factor that we could all agree is race as oppsosed to anythimg else.
Is it the country where you were born - in which case me and Lenny henry are both the same race.
Is it the colour of your skin - in which case me and Monarchim Begin (sp?) are the same race.
Is it your religion - in which my Mum and Archipshop John Sentamu are the same race.
Is it something that is neither country nor religion nor skin colour but is some other definition? I'm not sure we can specify someone's race and not have to qualify it with some other description of origin/skincolour/faith.
What do you feel? Is race an over-simplification or a false definition?
I would say that race is about a group, that to one degree or another are isolated. Perhaps by geography, perhaps politics or relidgion, they then breed among themselves for a period of time. They then develop characteristics, blond hair, short or tall etc.
Race can define small groups, or lump those small groups into larger ones. Now, even in the past those races are/have come together, and formed new ones. England is a good example. We are now a mix of Celt, Saxon other Nordic races, Normans and so many more, as time has gone by a new English race has become recognized. England has taken in so many outsiders, soon we will be able to call us human, as race will become so mixed.
Wouldn't that be nice!
Interesting question
I'm not sure that this well help, but one of the current and widely accepted definitions as to race is determined in the UK every 10 years with the Census, the next will take place on 27 March 2011
This being Government and possibly a degree of 'political correctness' here, rather than trying to determine "race" the Census actually tries to determine "ethnicity". The 2001 Census advises
White 92.1% All minority ethnic population 7.9%, with ethnicity data collected for the following 'groups'
- White
- Mixed
- Indian
- Pakistani
- Bangladeshi
- Other Asian
- All Asian or Asian British
- Black Caribbean
- Black African
- Black Other
- All Black or Black British
- Chinese
- Other ethnic groups
All population 58,789,194
Focus on Ethnicity and Identity paints a picture of the ethnic groups in the UK today. It includes information on their characteristics, lifestyle and experiences, placing particular emphasis on comparing and contrasting the main groups.
The 2001 Census revealed that the UK today is more culturally diverse than ever before. The 4.8 million people from a variety of non-White backgrounds are not evenly distributed across the country, tending to live in the large urban areas. The different groups share some characteristics but there are often greater differences between the individual ethnic groups than between the minority ethnic population as a whole and the White British people.
Indians were the largest of these groups, followed by Pakistanis, those of Mixed ethnic backgrounds, Black Caribbeans, Black Africans and Bangladeshis. The remaining minority ethnic groups each accounted for less than 0.5 per cent of the UK population and together accounted for a further 1.4 per cent.
Around half of the non-White population were Asians of Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi or other Asian origin. A further quarter were Black, that is Black Caribbean, Black African or Other Black. Fifteen per cent of the non-White population were from the Mixed ethnic group. About a third of this group were from White and Black Caribbean backgrounds.
There were almost 691,000 White Irish people in Great Britain accounting for 1 per cent of the GB population.
In Great Britain the number of people who came from an ethnic group other than White grew by 53 per cent between 1991 and 2001, from 3.0 million in 1991 to 4.6 million in 2001. (In 1991 ethnic group data were not collected on the Northern Ireland Census.)
The following facts were also highlighted from the last Census
- Non-White groups are younger
- 45% of non-White people live in London
- After London, the second largest proportion was in the West Midlands 13%
- followed by the South East 8%, the North West 8%, Yorkshire and the Humber 7%
- 2% of marriages are inter-ethnic, of these most (198,000) included a White person.
- Asians have largest housholds, Bangladeshi 4.5, Pakistani 4.1 and Indian 3.3
- The smallest households were found among the White Irish (average size 2.1 people).
- Black Caribbean and White British households were the next both with an average 2.3
- Chinese pupils have best GCSE results
- Bangladeshis’ unemployment highest
- Pakistanis most likely to be self-employed
- 1 in 10 White and Indian people provide unpaid care
- Bangladeshi men have highest smoking rates
- White Irish men and women were more likely to drink in excess of recommended guidelines
Hope this helps stimulate the debate/thread
Oh and another snippet of information as well...
A genetic test could help pinpoint to within a few miles of where people's ancestors came from.
A team at Edinburgh University have found that DNA analysis could predict the origins of rural people to within 5 miles. They have said, in the European Journal of Human Genetics that a tendency to marry within communities in the past meant that villages developed their own genetic fingerprint.
Those leading the study have said 'it held out the possibility of identifying the origins of city dewllers with ancestors from many places'
( I really must get out more)
I think racism has little to do with race which itself is an out of date concept.
as Mr B always says we are all of the human race so we are essentially all the same race
i have to agree
I agree with the point that 'race' is an outdated concept. In other living things we would discuss 'species' - the different species being unable to breed together. All humans (illness etc excepted) can breed together. So there is no such biological separation.
Race seems to have been used to separate people into groups but doesn't seem to have any sure-fire definition that doesn't fail the minute you start looking deeper into it. especially since it appears often to fall in line with genetic allignments.
I wonder, myself, if we place too much emphasis (as a species) on trying to define and distinguish ourselves and others into separate groups. After all creating groups, by definition, creates separation.
There are genetic groupings that can be medically significant - for instance many West Indians find that certain blood pressure medication simply doesn't work. But some non-West Indians find the same - just fewer of them. And there are other similar situations. But apart from that, I would say that any groupings are, or at least should be, a personal choice. And these would surely be based on culture and experience. A white child growing up in Jamaica may well speak and act in exactly the same way as a black child in the same neighbourhood. It may look odd to us who have a limited experience of the Caribbean, but it is 'right' for them.
I think the saddest thing is that the minute we put people into groups, we start treating them differently and inevitably some people use that as an excuse to treat those groups less well. For no better reason that these people are identified with a group that was a totally artificial construct in the first place.
Will have to come back to this; it was part of my dissertation study for my degree but no time at mo to give considered answer.
Interesting thread. :thumbup:
Not sure I am clever enough to know the answer to this on. Your race can no longer be defined by ones skin colour, but people could still be judged by some because of their skin colour.
I think racism is people who have segregated them selves or been segregated by other influences, then being victimised in some way due to their segregation.
I shall follow this thread with interest and the hope of learning some thing also
Great thread :thumbup:
provides a good insight into what spearates race from religion in the UK. The definition is somewhat obtuse and it would take a long explanation. Instead I have provided the link to BAILII a database of decisions from the UK so that you can read it yourself and arrrive at your own conclusions.
The Brits were to busy spanking it...
