What is the point of VED ?

18 Jun 2013

The VED seems to me to be a completely meaningless and pointless tax. In these days of austerity and cost cutting is it not time to ditch VED and close down the offices, machinery and human resources that support it.
Surely it is easier to add a few pence on to a litre of fuel.

18 Jun 2013

Not a bad idea from a revenue raising perspective, but it does help to tie together the MOT and insurance requirements. Although, the police do tend to have access to those respective databases too now, so maybe it's not as important as it used to be.

18 Jun 2013

I suppose it might be a progression.
Remember when it was called Road Fund Licence? The money supposedly to fund the road system....
They then changed it to VED to disguise the fact that very little of the money went into road maintenance and instead to address global warming errr then climate change.
Now, some think tank or other is considering making drivers pay per mile for vehicle use...
Yes, bury it altogether. The government will then have the chance to screw the motorist for even more money by adding a premium on road fuel on which they will add VAT and Duty at the same time as charging road tolls.
Great idea :thumbup:
rolleyes

18 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
I suppose it might be a progression.
Remember when it was called Road Fund Licence? The money supposedly to fund the road system....
They then changed it to VED to disguise the fact that very little of the money went into road maintenance and instead to address global warming errr then climate change.
Now, some think tank or other is considering making drivers pay per mile for vehicle use...
Yes, bury it altogether. The government will then have the chance to screw the motorist for even more money by adding a premium on road fuel on which they will add VAT and Duty at the same time as charging road tolls.
Great idea :thumbup:

But at the very least the scrotes that drive around with no tax on their cars will be paying as they will need fuel....

18 Jun 2013

What is VED ? is that Vehicle Exise Duty or the Road Tax Disc people buy ?

18 Jun 2013

Quote by MidsCouple24
What is VED ? is that Vehicle Exise Duty or the Road Tax Disc people buy ?

One of the same.

18 Jun 2013

Thanks for that, now I can better understand the discussion, not sure why we need to change anything, keep it or scrap it but I fear any change will just see a way of the Government being able to charge us more.
As far as I am aware the average expected mileage for a family car these days is 15000 miles per annum, charging per mile on that basis means that people like me who average a mere 5000 miles per annum will gain, but people who need to travel more for work where they do not recieve fuel allowances or other forms of re-imbursement are going to be paying a lot more and I don't see that as a good thing it is effectively another pay cut.

18 Jun 2013

ved works very well under the current system,
its a very fair system that encourages small engined cars that are more fuel efficient thus helping sustain the use of fossil fuels
if we wanna drive fuel hungry cars then why moan about 400 quid when you probably do twice that in fuel per year compared to a much smaller engined car.
people could try adding lpg to offset the extra tax dunno

18 Jun 2013

Quote by Lizaleanrob
ved works very well under the current system,
its a very fair system that encourages small engined cars that are more fuel efficient thus helping sustain the use of fossil fuels
if we wanna drive fuel hungry cars then why moan about 400 quid when you probably do twice that in fuel per year compared to a much smaller engined car.
people could try adding lpg to offset the extra tax

Bit of a contradiction there.
Adding the VED to fuel duty would mean that by default fuel hungry cars would pay more and fuel efficient cars would pay less. Those who do greater mileage would pay more and those who do less mileage, would pay less.
A set fee every year to put a piece of paper in your windscreen is not part of the modern world and harks back to the Ministry of Motoring and being "licensed" to have a car.

19 Jun 2013

1) do away with the VED as such
2) issue certificates of insurance on a credit card type thingy
3) add, say, 10p to the already exhorbitant tax on fuel
4) ensure that the insurance card thingy has to be inserted into a slot on the pump before fuel is dispensed.
The above should ensure that those that use the roads more or choose to drive large engined vehicles pay more and those that use the roads less or drive fuel efficient vehicles pay less.
The insurance card thingy means that if you dont have valid insurance you cant get fuel and cant use the roads.
Simplistic I know but the theory sounds good smile

19 Jun 2013

Quote by Too Hot
ved works very well under the current system,nstances
its a very fair system that encourages small engined cars that are more fuel efficient thus helping sustain the use of fossil fuels
if we wanna drive fuel hungry cars then why moan about 400 quid when you probably do twice that in fuel per year compared to a much smaller engined car.
people could try adding lpg to offset the extra tax

Bit of a contradiction there.
Adding the VED to fuel duty would mean that by default fuel hungry cars would pay more and fuel efficient cars would pay less. Those who do greater mileage would pay more and those who do less mileage, would pay less.
A set fee every year to put a piece of paper in your windscreen is not part of the modern world and harks back to the Ministry of Motoring and being "licensed" to have a car.
so why change something to make it the same?
its not a contradiction at all but its helped you answered your own argument
the only ones to benefit from your way of thinking would be those who don't use their fuel hungry car very often wink

super fuel efficient cars would lose out as some currently pay just a token amount for ved whilst others pay nothing
i fear this thread is based on your own circumstances and not a general outlook on the situation

19 Jun 2013

Quote by Lizaleanrob
ved works very well under the current system,nstances
its a very fair system that encourages small engined cars that are more fuel efficient thus helping sustain the use of fossil fuels
if we wanna drive fuel hungry cars then why moan about 400 quid when you probably do twice that in fuel per year compared to a much smaller engined car.
people could try adding lpg to offset the extra tax

Bit of a contradiction there.
Adding the VED to fuel duty would mean that by default fuel hungry cars would pay more and fuel efficient cars would pay less. Those who do greater mileage would pay more and those who do less mileage, would pay less.
A set fee every year to put a piece of paper in your windscreen is not part of the modern world and harks back to the Ministry of Motoring and being "licensed" to have a car.
so why change something to make it the same?
its not a contradiction at all but its helped you answered your own argument
the only ones to benefit from your way of thinking would be those who don't use their fuel hungry car very often wink

super fuel efficient cars would lose out as some currently pay just a token amount for ved whilst others pay nothing
i fear this thread is based on your own circumstances and not a general outlook on the situation
And meanwhile those who don't bother to pay VED/RFL at all are getting the best deal of all...

19 Jun 2013

Quote by Steve
ved works very well under the current system,nstances
its a very fair system that encourages small engined cars that are more fuel efficient thus helping sustain the use of fossil fuels
if we wanna drive fuel hungry cars then why moan about 400 quid when you probably do twice that in fuel per year compared to a much smaller engined car.
people could try adding lpg to offset the extra tax

Bit of a contradiction there.
Adding the VED to fuel duty would mean that by default fuel hungry cars would pay more and fuel efficient cars would pay less. Those who do greater mileage would pay more and those who do less mileage, would pay less.
A set fee every year to put a piece of paper in your windscreen is not part of the modern world and harks back to the Ministry of Motoring and being "licensed" to have a car.
so why change something to make it the same?
its not a contradiction at all but its helped you answered your own argument
the only ones to benefit from your way of thinking would be those who don't use their fuel hungry car very often wink

super fuel efficient cars would lose out as some currently pay just a token amount for ved whilst others pay nothing
i fear this thread is based on your own circumstances and not a general outlook on the situation
And meanwhile those who don't bother to pay VED/RFL at all are getting the best deal of all...
not really Steve they risk the chance of having their car crushed or impounded.
in reality the figures are dramatically falling for those driving cars without ved recent campaigns have been very successful
for those that don't wish to pay ved there are either cars over 25 years old or one of the many duel fuel cars available :wink:
short list here

19 Jun 2013

I dont pay tax on my car smile

19 Jun 2013

Quote by nellie-mwgc
I dont pay tax on my car

Everybody should 'pay' tax on their car to be legal....
That is what I believe Steve is referring to.
In regard to some cars, as rob says, the rate of tax is zero but it is still a requirement to obtain the relevant disc to show that any duty due has been paid and that everything is above board and legal.
The mere fact that you don't pay tax on your car does not absolve you from obtaining and displaying the proper documentation according to law.
BTW, I don't pay tax on my cars either nor do I display a tax disc...
but then they are French registered :lol2:
Which brings me to another point/flaw in the argument for adding a premium to fuel costs. The cost of road fuel in France is much cheaper than it is in the UK. There was a thing quite a few years ago about lorries going to the continent to fill up and, considering the amount of fuel they carry in their tanks, a considerable saving - even taking into account the ferry costs - was achievable. A fleet operator like Eddie Stobbard could save £millions over the course of a year in this way (and probably already do!)
What is to stop fleet operators doing the same thing if the UK Government added a levy to fuel to cover the loss of the VED?
Would we have a similar scenario to the ’Google' Starbucks' debacle over companies failing to pay their due tax?

19 Jun 2013

I know all that smile

i still dont pay tax but i do have the correct documentation :)

19 Jun 2013

Quote by paulaclark
1) do away with the VED as such
2) issue certificates of insurance on a credit card type thingy
3) add, say, 10p to the already exhorbitant tax on fuel
4) ensure that the insurance card thingy has to be inserted into a slot on the pump before fuel is dispensed.
The above should ensure that those that use the roads more or choose to drive large engined vehicles pay more and those that use the roads less or drive fuel efficient vehicles pay less.
The insurance card thingy means that if you dont have valid insurance you cant get fuel and cant use the roads.
Simplistic I know but the theory sounds good

All great ideas but the bit I have highlighted, would it work? I drive a " large engined vehicle " and as such I am clobbered on all fronts. I get hit by higher service charges, I get hit with paying more tax on my fuel as I buy more of it, and I get hit with higher VED of £160 every six months. What more do you want?
If your way of putting onto fuel was to go into operation, and then over say a seven year period all those big engined vehicles left the road, for much smaller engined vehicles,that would mean the Government would be hugely under budget for the duty they WERE collecting on VED and fuel taxes. How would they get that lost revenue back may I ask?
Has anyone got any ideas as to why diesel fuel is now more expensive than unleaded? Years ago when cars were only running on 4 star fuel, diesel engines were confined to taxis and coaches etc and the price was a lot lower. Then along came the cleaner burning unleaded fuels and still diesel fuel was a lot less expensive. Then along came all the major car manufacturers who created sleeker and cleaner burning diesel engines for cars. Long gone are the days of dirty smelly loud diesel cars. Now they are super silent and not smelly at all, but now that every other car seems to be a diesel one, the price of diesel is much higher than unleaded, I wonder why that is?
My Wife's friend has just brought a new Ford KA after getting rid of her old Fiesta. The old 1998 Fiesta whilst cheap to run is not a patch on this new car. It has a device fitted that where the car has it's handbrake applied, it cuts out the engine and when you then put the car into gear it starts the car up...very clever. This car's VED is £30 a YEAR. She has cut her fuel bills in half so less tax for the Government, and her VED is now next to nothing, which is another blow financially to the Government.
Do people think if that became the trend over the next 20 years, that the Government would not have to bring in new taxes to make up for the shortfall in VED revenues and taxes on fuel duty. That would mean we would all have to pay to use the roads every time we went out in them. The more money they need to raise, the higher the charges, it would be a never ending kick in the teeth for the motorist.
The idea that putting VED onto fuel would work is laughable. The Government HAVE to raise a certain amount from the motorist every year. Each year that has to increase, and it has. I am tired of getting it stuck to me because I choose to run a 2 ltr car. I pay for that over and over again and my cars emissions are damn low as well, so why do people want higher engined cars screwed to the wall?
I get flipping angry because I get done on two fronts for driving a big car. I pay through the nose for VED and through the nose on my fuel bills. What more do people fecking want?

19 Jun 2013

Quote by star
What more do people fecking want?

Blood

19 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
What more do people fecking want?

Blood

Possibly they do G.
As a simple maths sum will prove GnV, if I spend £75 a week on fuel and brought a much cheaper and smaller car to run, I could cut that almost in in half. So a saving of around £1820 a year on fuel alone. Now the Government would take around 20% of that in tax I believe, so would lose around £360 a year from me. Then I would have an annual VED of around £60 if I went to a smaller car, which is another loss of £190 to the greedy feckers. That leaves a deficit to the Government of around £550 minimum a year. So if ten people decided to go down this route, the Government would lose around a year. See how easy it would be for the figures to get into hundreds of millions of pounds in lost revenue for the Government.
Then I wonder how long it would be before the Government then started putting on taxes for the smaller cars? So maybe the smaller engined cars, and the people who do not use their cars a lot should be bloody thankful of people like me who pay through the fucking nose to drive that bigger engined car eh?

19 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
Remember when it was called Road Fund Licence? The money supposedly to fund the road system....

A bit of a tangent I know, but I seem to remember that the roads have not been directly funded in this manner for several decades. I think the road fund exceeded the amount of income from this form of taxation sometime in the fifties. Since then the VED has been considered as general taxation by the Treasury.

19 Jun 2013

Quote by Trevaunance
Remember when it was called Road Fund Licence? The money supposedly to fund the road system....

A bit of a tangent I know, but I seem to remember that the roads have not been directly funded in this manner for several decades. I think the road fund exceeded the amount of income from this form of taxation sometime in the fifties. Since then the VED has been considered as general taxation by the Treasury.
Fascinating stuff Trev.
Apparently, we can blame it all on the Liberals as it was Lloyd George as then Chancellor of the Exchequer who was responsible for its creation.
Lloyd George knew my father etc......
Winston Churchill features somewhere in the mix of things in opposotion of it as he once spoke about having to take care calling it a Road Fund, as the people who had paid into it would want to claim "the moral ownership of the roads their contributions have created"
Given the cost of creating and maintaining Britain's roads today, I wonder if that could still be held true?

20 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
Remember when it was called Road Fund Licence? The money supposedly to fund the road system....

A bit of a tangent I know, but I seem to remember that the roads have not been directly funded in this manner for several decades. I think the road fund exceeded the amount of income from this form of taxation sometime in the fifties. Since then the VED has been considered as general taxation by the Treasury.
Fascinating stuff Trev.
Apparently, we can blame it all on the Liberals as it was Lloyd George as then Chancellor of the Exchequer who was responsible for its creation.
Lloyd George knew my father etc......
Winston Churchill features somewhere in the mix of things in opposotion of it as he once spoke about having to take care calling it a Road Fund, as the people who had paid into it would want to claim "the moral ownership of the roadstheir contributions have created"
Given the cost of creating and maintaining Britain's roads today, I wonder if that could still be held true?
i think the evidence can be found here G http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/416475.html

:rotflmao:

20 Jun 2013

I couldn't possibly comment rob.....
Perhaps the Midlands are a special case dunno

20 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
I couldn't possibly comment rob.....
Perhaps the Midlands are a special case

No....
Only some of it's inhabitants ;-)

20 Jun 2013

Quote by Steve
I couldn't possibly comment rob.....
Perhaps the Midlands are a special case

No....
Only some of it's inhabitants ;-)
Yes Steve, apologies...

22 Jun 2013

Quote by GnV
I couldn't possibly comment rob.....
Perhaps the Midlands are a special case

No....
Only some of it's inhabitants ;-)
Yes Steve, apologies...
No apology required....
I knew what you meant.....I think haha :-)

5 Dec 2013

A step in the right direction for tomorrow ...

5 Dec 2013

I have bought my car tax online for at least five years and every time the DVLA website gives you an automatic 5 extra days grace on displaying your out of date disc. Which raises the question how many people take any notice of it these days when most convictions appear to be tied to automatic number plate recognition, or suspicion being raised by something else and escalated. Broken headlights etc spring to mind here if you ever watch those cop reality shows.
I think this is a step in the right direction.

5 Dec 2013

It's just another tax to try and balance the books and to be honest I see it as an inconvenience rather than an extortion racket. If we loose the VED, the tax would have to be collected somewhere else.
If you put it on fuel I guess the hauliers would have a justifiable moan, alcohol and tobacco are taxed within an inch of becoming luxury goods. So what does that leave? Sweets and sunshine?
The smaller engined car you get the lower the VED. Some vehicles are rated at zero so whilst it may not have funded road building since the 1940's it does go into the tax pot.

5 Dec 2013

Quote by herts_darlings1
It's just another tax to try and balance the books and to be honest I see it as an inconvenience rather than an extortion racket. If we loose the VED, the tax would have to be collected somewhere else.
If you put it on fuel I guess the hauliers would have a justifiable moan, alcohol and tobacco are taxed within an inch of becoming luxury goods. So what does that leave? Sweets and sunshine?
The smaller engined car you get the lower the VED. Some vehicles are rated at zero so whilst it may not have funded road building since the 1940's it does go into the tax pot.

If I understand the FT article correctly, VED is not being abolished, just the need to display a tax disc.