whats going to get your x

23 Apr 2010

Quote by awayman
Im with the handsome chap smoking the cigar on this one.

I'm not.
I'm from a mining family.
Clause IV part iv (amazingly, not many people know that what was changed was only part of Clause IV, not the whole thing - maybe I was the only one who ever read the back of his party card) said nothing about giving power to workers. It was a license for Fabian bureaucrats to take over industries and run them how they saw fit. For all the menfolk in my family (a rugby teams worth, probably) who were still in the pits on vesting day in 1947 (one grandad was still banned for his striking activities) it meant that the same pit manager who was a prick the day before vesting day, was a prick and a civil servant the day after vesting day.
When we nationalized British Leyland it wasn't an act of socialism - it was an act of charity to the most inept group of managers ever to draw breath. We nationalized Northern Rock, and the poorly paid staff went down the road while the Chief Exec got generous compensation. Nationalization rarely changes the circumstances of the workers, and the Fabian language of Clause IV pt iv (to obtain FOR the workers... etc...) actually disempowers the very people it was supposed to be about.
Rant over...
Surely just poor implementation of good intent ??
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service."...reads quite well to me....and I'm from a family of steelworkers Ian MacGregors' other victims

23 Apr 2010

Daddy was a stock broker. Nar he wasn't really he was first trained as a lock smith the went away to war where he was trained as a diesel fitter and upon return to the uk was employed as a factory worker and spent most of his days in metrication and quality assurance. He did a night school course and became a watch repairer in the evenings and did painting and decorating at weekends whilst holding down this pitifully paid full time job. At the age of 61 he was made redundant with minimum redundancy settlement and no pension. He found work repairing measuring instruments and enjoyed it very much as he felt he was passing on skills. He finally retired at 82 and died a year later leaving an estate valued at £5000. he raised 6 kids and could never afford to run a car or take a holiday away.
I mention these facts not to establish my working class credentials but simply because I don't think my dad got a fair reward for his labour. That's why when clause 4 went it broke my heart.

23 Apr 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Daddy was a stock broker. Nar he wasn't really he was first trained as a lock smith the went away to war where he was trained as a diesel fitter and upon return to the uk was employed as a factory worker and spent most of his days in metrication and quality assurance. He did a night school course and became a watch repairer in the evenings and did painting and decorating at weekends whilst holding down this pitifully paid full time job. At the age of 61 he was made redundant with minimum redundancy settlement and no pension. He found work repairing measuring instruments and enjoyed it very much as he felt he was passing on skills. He finally retired at 82 and died a year later leaving an estate valued at £5000. he raised 6 kids and could never afford to run a car or take a holiday away.
I mention these facts not to establish my working class credentials but simply because I don't think my dad got a fair reward for his labour. That's why when clause 4 went it broke my heart.

I have no working class credentials. I'm a born again white collar worker. Except... When I haven't been self employed I've been a shop steward for much of my adult life.
My experience is that when people promise to do things for people, they don't change their lives as much as if they let people do things for themselves. Would people be more empowered if they had to run their own supermarkets, or if Tesco's do it for them? I think the same argument applies to the Fabian idea of nationalization.
Nobody who worked in a nationalized industry ever got any more reward for their labour than anyone who worked in private industry. That was the joke.

24 Apr 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Daddy was a stock broker. Nar he wasn't really he was first trained as a lock smith the went away to war where he was trained as a diesel fitter and upon return to the uk was employed as a factory worker and spent most of his days in metrication and quality assurance. He did a night school course and became a watch repairer in the evenings and did painting and decorating at weekends whilst holding down this pitifully paid full time job. At the age of 61 he was made redundant with minimum redundancy settlement and no pension. He found work repairing measuring instruments and enjoyed it very much as he felt he was passing on skills. He finally retired at 82 and died a year later leaving an estate valued at £5000. he raised 6 kids and could never afford to run a car or take a holiday away.
I mention these facts not to establish my working class credentials but simply because I don't think my dad got a fair reward for his labour. That's why when clause 4 went it broke my heart.

I have no working class credentials. I'm a born again white collar worker. Except... When I haven't been self employed I've been a shop steward for much of my adult life.
My experience is that when people promise to do things for people, they don't change their lives as much as if they let people do things for themselves. Would people be more empowered if they had to run their own supermarkets, or if Tesco's do it for them? I think the same argument applies to the Fabian idea of nationalization.
Nobody who worked in a nationalized industry ever got any more reward for their labour than anyone who worked in private industry. That was the joke.
But was that not because the labour party has been more heavily influenced by the fabian/unionist idea than pure socialism?
The fact is this country has never had a true socialist party,so nationalisation was never attempted as a way to allow the masses to benefit from the riches amassed by the elite.
Running your own supermarket?Its called the co op,people are empowered,it is sucessful and constantly leads the way in ethical people doesnt always lead to disaster.
Precisely. If we had nationalized the industries by transferring power to the workforce we wouldn't have ended up with scum like Alf Robens running the NCB, or Michael Edwards running BL, or MacGregor running British Steel and British Coal. Tyrone O'Sullivan proved you don't need a self serving manager caste of the kind that came with the Fabian model of nationalization.

24 Apr 2010

Should everyone be allowed to vote?

:confused:

24 Apr 2010

Quote by Kaznkev
Should everyone be allowed to vote?

:confused:

Why thee blog references the Athenian voting system(and does so incorrectly ) i dont know,but it is an intresting question.
My darkest dirtiest secret is that i do kinda have a hankering for Platoes philosopher kings,provided of course i get to choose who is thats the problem with any system other than the universal franchise,who decides who is or isnt eligible to vote?
The question of who should vote is as old as civilization, and there will always be disagreement. Universal suffrage was proposed in 1647 and slow, very slow put into place until in
1918 - the consequences of World War I persuaded the government to expand the right to vote, not only for the many men who fought in the war who were disenfranchised, but also for the women who helped in the factories and elsewhere as part of the war effort. Property restrictions for voting were lifted for men, who could vote at 21; however women's votes were given with these property restrictions, and were limited to those over 30 years old.
1928 - this made women's voting rights equal with men, with voting possible at 21 with no property restrictions
1969 - extension of suffrage to those 18 and older
and now we are talking about dropping it to 16 and older.
I think we have already dropped the age to far.
Travis

24 Apr 2010

Quote by awol
Should everyone be allowed to vote?

:confused:

So they let a bloke who thinks democracy is only about general elections lose on an article about whether thickoes should be allowed to vote in elections. What next? David Blunkett on driving licences for blind people?
Maybe if democracy meant something people would be keener on it. The type of election that happens most often is your local council elections. Unfortunately, the reality is that 75% of the money your local council spends comes direct from central government, and they're only able to vary council tax within a narrow margin - resulting in deep cynicism about local democracy, because local councils can't change the one thing that impacts most on their population, which is the council tax rate.

25 Apr 2010

Quote by Ben_welshminx
Daddy was a stock broker. Nar he wasn't really he was first trained as a lock smith the went away to war where he was trained as a diesel fitter and upon return to the uk was employed as a factory worker and spent most of his days in metrication and quality assurance. He did a night school course and became a watch repairer in the evenings and did painting and decorating at weekends whilst holding down this pitifully paid full time job. At the age of 61 he was made redundant with minimum redundancy settlement and no pension. He found work repairing measuring instruments and enjoyed it very much as he felt he was passing on skills. He finally retired at 82 and died a year later leaving an estate valued at £5000. he raised 6 kids and could never afford to run a car or take a holiday away.
I mention these facts not to establish my working class credentials but simply because I don't think my dad got a fair reward for his labour. That's why when clause 4 went it broke my heart.

shame really ben that men like this are a fading breed they went to work for a roof over their head`s food on the table and this was reward enough the love of a good woman and their children
now had he been born in this age then material goods mean nothing is ever enough and then there`s the state benefit system 40" tv 2 cars etc does kinda make your blood boil
i am though a little confused with the car issue as i`m sure you mentioned having his old car tax exempt bristol in an earlier thread :huh:

27 Apr 2010

I'm getting fed up with all of them now and i empathise with the chap who walked into an antique shop in London.
After looking around for a while, he noticed a very life-like bronze statue of a rat. It had no price tag, but it was so striking that he decided to buy it anyway.
He took it to the owner and said: ‘How much is this bronze rat?’
The owner replied: ‘It’s £25 for the rat, and £100 for the story.’
The fellow gave the owner his £25 and said, ‘I’ll just take the rat, you can keep the story!’
As he walked off down the street, he noticed that a few real rats had crawled out of the drains and had begun following him. This was a little disconcerting, so he started to walk a little faster, but within a couple of minutes, the swarm of rats had formed into three main packs and they were all squealing and screeching in a very menacing way.
He increased his speed and ran on towards the river and as he ran, he looked behind him and saw the rats now numbered in their HUNDREDS, and they were running faster and faster. By now, very concerned, he ran down to the water's edge and threw the bronze rat as far out into the river as he could.
Amazingly, the hundreds of real rats jumped into the water after it and were all drowned.
The man walked back to relate all this to the shop owner, who said, ‘Ah, you’ve come back for the story then?’
‘ No’ said the bloke, ‘I came back to see if you’ve got a bronze Politician.
wink

28 Apr 2010

great joke rob

28 Apr 2010

Labour

28 Apr 2010

Quote by corrie
Labour

You aren't being bigoted are you Corrie? lol

28 Apr 2010

Quote by Rob_hood
Labour

You aren't being bigoted are you Corrie? lol

Now thats satire

28 Apr 2010

Quote by jdwxxx
Labour

You aren't being bigoted are you Corrie? lol

Now thats satire
Ive been watching the comedy satire series 'Absolute Power' on tv.
What a Master class in satire tuition.
Must be rubbing off. :lol:

28 Apr 2010

Quote by Rob_hood
.......Ive been watching the comedy satire series 'Absolute Power' on tv.
What a Master class in satire tuition............

As an aside, try the radio broadcasts of 'Absolute Power' instead written by Mark Tavener. It knocks the TV show into a cocked hat. ;)

28 Apr 2010

Thanks for the tip, I will as i managed somehow to miss it all when it first went out.
I love stuff like this and i was and still am a fan of 'House of Cards' with Ian Richardson, (although you might think that,I couldn't possibly say it) lol

5 May 2010

I hope that when Cameron gets in, he keeps his promise and targets scroungers like this twat.

Imagine living next door to this brood, and all funded by the taxpayer.
His " illness " is a joke and he should be sent out to work doing anything.
We are watching Cameron.

5 May 2010

Quote by kentswingers777
I hope that when Cameron gets in, he keeps his promise and targets scroungers like this twat.

Imagine living next door to this brood, and all funded by the taxpayer.
His " illness " is a joke and he should be sent out to work doing anything.
We are watching Cameron.

IF

5 May 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
I hope that when Cameron gets in, he keeps his promise and targets scroungers like this twat.

Imagine living next door to this brood, and all funded by the taxpayer.
His " illness " is a joke and he should be sent out to work doing anything.
We are watching Cameron.

IF
here`:thumbup:s hopping then

5 May 2010

Quote by Lizaleanrob
I hope that when Cameron gets in, he keeps his promise and targets scroungers like this twat.

Imagine living next door to this brood, and all funded by the taxpayer.
His " illness " is a joke and he should be sent out to work doing anything.
We are watching Cameron.

IF
here`:thumbup:s hopping then
:thumbup:

5 May 2010

I hope Cameron gets in....honest.
Give us 5 years of tory rule allowing the left to regroup and hopefully reclaim the Labour party...5 years of tax rises, cuts, and rising unemployment should leave the tories unelectable for a good few years after

5 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I hope Cameron gets in....honest.
Give us 5 years of tory rule allowing the left to regroup and hopefully reclaim the Labour party...5 years of tax rises, cuts, and rising unemployment should leave the tories unelectable for a good few years after

I think any one with a little foresight knows taxes are going up and so is unemployment, who ever gets in! As fiscal studies said, the premiership right now is a Poisson chalice.

5 May 2010

The thing is of course that what will count in 5 years is the incumbent governments record .....if this is one of tax rises etc. no-one least of all the media will care about the current climate

5 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
I hope Cameron gets in....honest.
Give us 5 years of tory rule allowing the left to regroup and hopefully reclaim the Labour party...5 years of tax rises, cuts, and rising unemployment should leave the tories unelectable for a good few years after

I am glad you used the word " hopefully ".
Your beloved Labour party is heading for the wilderness, as the Libs will overtake you.
You obviously mean Old Labour and not New Labour, you want to reclaim?
Some just never learn.

5 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
The thing is of course that what will count in 5 years is the incumbent governments record .....if this is one of tax rises etc. no-one least of all the media will care about the current climate

I shall be taking the currant climate into account, just maybe, so will others?
Also there will be much millage in, "Its what Labour left us to work with"

6 May 2010

It always amazes me when small businessmen support the tories after the last tory governments record on bankrupcy and small business you actually looked at Camerons plans for business taxation and grants ??

6 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It always amazes me when small businessmen support the tories after the last tory governments record on bankrupcy and small business you actually looked at Camerons plans for business taxation and grants ??

there all shit lee its just the yoyo of politics and one of the reasons i feel the need to retire in another country
my retirement is set and in six years i retire very early and in france where socializing
is still civilized and towns are not a war zone`s after 9pm

6 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It always amazes me when small businessmen support the tories after the last tory governments record on bankrupcy and small business you actually looked at Camerons plans for business taxation and grants ??

For me, I think It's time to look forward, not back at what others have done.

6 May 2010

Quote by Bluefish2009
It always amazes me when small businessmen support the tories after the last tory governments record on bankrupcy and small business you actually looked at Camerons plans for business taxation and grants ??

For me, I think It's time to look forward, not back at what others have done.
To the tories promised cuts in training grants? industry in this country is already on it's knees these cuts may well finish it off

6 May 2010

Quote by Staggerlee_BB
It always amazes me when small businessmen support the tories after the last tory governments record on bankrupcy and small business you actually looked at Camerons plans for business taxation and grants ??

For me, I think It's time to look forward, not back at what others have done.
To the tories promised cuts in training grants? industry in this country is already on it's knees these cuts may well finish it off
Like I have said before, cut will have to be made some where who ever gets in!
I have had to pay for all my training over the years! I probably do three training courses a year, these are all extensive and last between 3 to 5 days each. Training probably cost's getting towards £3000 a year by the time you include hotel and traveling cost's. Also, while I am on these courses I am not earning any money. These are needed to stay within an approved scheme run by an industry body. That's life
Still the NI contributions would not go up as much with the Tory's.