Someone posted this on another forum I use... thought I'd throw it out there and see what you guys think. To me, no means no and it really is that simple. Any thoughts?
Sex God
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Women say some rape victims should take blame...
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Another complex issue (we are good at bringing these up, are we not 
).
Each case depends on it's merits, there is really no one size fits all. Also, each of us is only really able to judge based on our own experience, in my case, I did respectfully and without question withdraw on the one occassion that a woman I went to bed with changed her mind last minute when I was on full heat - actually I was very hurt mentally, I went right off heat and felf disgusted (with myself) for whatever I had done and in fact I would go so far as to say that I felt "mentally " myself by the experience. I do know however, that some other men would have reacted differently to me in these circumstances.
To conclude, women must take some responsibility overall, they can't just blame men 100 per cent in every case.
Plim :sad:
).Each case depends on it's merits, there is really no one size fits all. Also, each of us is only really able to judge based on our own experience, in my case, I did respectfully and without question withdraw on the one occassion that a woman I went to bed with changed her mind last minute when I was on full heat - actually I was very hurt mentally, I went right off heat and felf disgusted (with myself) for whatever I had done and in fact I would go so far as to say that I felt "mentally " myself by the experience. I do know however, that some other men would have reacted differently to me in these circumstances.
To conclude, women must take some responsibility overall, they can't just blame men 100 per cent in every case.
Plim :sad:
Sex God
Ghah!
Hideous that in 2010 people still blame the victim for someone else not being able to control their urges.
I work every single day to change attitudes towards this kind of 'she/he was asking for it' mentality. It's a bullshit excuse that tries to give an excuse and reason to justify an action that is unjustifiable. No = stop. Helpless on a curb = phone ambulance... not take advantage and get my end away.
Nobody has the right to say anybody who was deserved it. Articles like that just stop people coming forward for help and to report what has happened for the fear of being condemned, judged, laughed at and ridiculed. What victims need is support, not someone sitting wagging a finger making snap ill-informed decisions about the degree of which it was 'asked for'.
Abhorrent. Since when did 'no' mean... 'go ahead anyway' ? Disgusting. I don't care if the other person was mentally scarred by my saying no. If it's a no... deal with it. It really is that clear cut in my head and in practice.
No is no is no, every single time.
And that includes the arranged no in the BDSM world where the safe words are set up. I wouldn't go against a safe word, the same as I wouldn't go against a straight up 'no'. :?
There are no complications in my head about this. None at all. All quite simple.
Hideous that in 2010 people still blame the victim for someone else not being able to control their urges.
I work every single day to change attitudes towards this kind of 'she/he was asking for it' mentality. It's a bullshit excuse that tries to give an excuse and reason to justify an action that is unjustifiable. No = stop. Helpless on a curb = phone ambulance... not take advantage and get my end away.
Nobody has the right to say anybody who was deserved it. Articles like that just stop people coming forward for help and to report what has happened for the fear of being condemned, judged, laughed at and ridiculed. What victims need is support, not someone sitting wagging a finger making snap ill-informed decisions about the degree of which it was 'asked for'.Abhorrent. Since when did 'no' mean... 'go ahead anyway' ? Disgusting. I don't care if the other person was mentally scarred by my saying no. If it's a no... deal with it. It really is that clear cut in my head and in practice.
No is no is no, every single time.
And that includes the arranged no in the BDSM world where the safe words are set up. I wouldn't go against a safe word, the same as I wouldn't go against a straight up 'no'. :?
There are no complications in my head about this. None at all. All quite simple.
Quote by Plimboy
Another complex issue (we are good at bringing these up, are we not
Each case depends on it's merits, there is really no one size fits all. Also, each of us is only really able to judge based on our own experience, in my case, I did respectfully and without question withdraw on the one occassion that a woman I went to bed with changed her mind last minute when I was on full heat - actually I was very hurt mentally, I went right off heat and felf disgusted (with myself) for whatever I had done and in fact I would go so far as to say that I felt "mentally " myself by the experience. I do know however, that some other men would have reacted differently to me in these circumstances.
To conclude, women must take some responsibility overall, they can't just blame men 100 per cent in every case.
Plim :sad:
Yep sort of sums it up for me.
Each case is different BUT why do some women cry when in fact they have never been at all?
That does not help the cause of women who have been, it is those women that must bear the brunt of a lot of bad press some victims get, where in my view victims should be given all the help they need.
But the ones that cry should be jailed for a long time.
Sex God
Quote by Dirtygirly
Someone posted this on another forum I use... thought I'd throw it out there and see what you guys think. To me, no means no and it really is that simple. Any thoughts?
I (Mr Bluefish) am in the no means no camp on this one. Many years back when I was much younger, I often went out drinking with a young lady who was purely a Friend, we were both single and both enjoyed a drink so would often go out clubbing together. at the end of the evening we would return to her place as she lived in town in a one bed flat, we slept together in the same bed, drunk, many times, but never touched each other in a sexual way ever. It was just an unwritten agreement.
The problem comes when we are not sure if some one really said NO!
But does "no" mean "no" ?
Or maybe "no" means "no" at the time but "maybe later", later ?
Or maybe "yes" does not mean "yes", but means "no" ?
Whatever.
An allegation of against a man means he will be arrested.
That's the bottom line.
That arrest will affect the rest of his life.
Irrespective of what the police believe to be the truth, upon an allegation being made he WILL be arrested.
Hornets nest anyone ?
Or maybe "no" means "no" at the time but "maybe later", later ?
Or maybe "yes" does not mean "yes", but means "no" ?
Whatever.
An allegation of against a man means he will be arrested.
That's the bottom line.
That arrest will affect the rest of his life.
Irrespective of what the police believe to be the truth, upon an allegation being made he WILL be arrested.
Hornets nest anyone ?
As long as it is "No" BEFORE the event, then that's a 'NO'.
Clear and emphatic.
However ......
If it turns out to be a "No, I didn't really want to do that" AFTER the event, what then ? This is a very real and dangerous situation that does occur.
Very dodgy ground.
Maybe a pre-sexual agreement is what's required ?
(OK, only kidding !)
Clear and emphatic.
However ......
If it turns out to be a "No, I didn't really want to do that" AFTER the event, what then ? This is a very real and dangerous situation that does occur.
Very dodgy ground.
Maybe a pre-sexual agreement is what's required ?
(OK, only kidding !)
Sex God
I'm on the side of No Means No and No Consent Means No.
But a person who goes out, especially in an unfamiliar town, gets so drunk they can't stand, can't speak and can't recognise the person they are with, places themselves in an incredibly vulnurable position. This in no way excuses anyone from abusing them. But people DO abuse the vulnerable, even if it's just nicking their handbags.
For their own sakes people (often but not always young women) need to choose not to get so drunk.
But (and I am repeating myself here) if they are too drunk to consent it is - 100%.
There is an argument that the guy needs to be sober enough to make that judgment too - a drunk guy exposes himself to the accusation of that he might find very hard to defend if he can't remember any details of what happened.
But a person who goes out, especially in an unfamiliar town, gets so drunk they can't stand, can't speak and can't recognise the person they are with, places themselves in an incredibly vulnurable position. This in no way excuses anyone from abusing them. But people DO abuse the vulnerable, even if it's just nicking their handbags.
For their own sakes people (often but not always young women) need to choose not to get so drunk.
But (and I am repeating myself here) if they are too drunk to consent it is - 100%.
There is an argument that the guy needs to be sober enough to make that judgment too - a drunk guy exposes himself to the accusation of that he might find very hard to defend if he can't remember any details of what happened.
Quote by Kaznkev
A strange one....This was in the Mail today...
Certainly does not help matters!
I know you'll think I'm being antagonistic, but in what way does this thoughtful and carefully reasoned decision to impose a community sentence not help matters?
I was intriged by the way the womans bisexuality was deemed so relevant it was in the opening sentance ,could regular readers tell me if all articles start with the persons sexuality
Well, obviously all bisexuals are evil sex-obsessed liars, Kaznkev.
Back to the OP... I think that you're always responsible for your actions but not for anyone else's. So if you put yourself in a vulnerable position by drinking so much you can't stand up and then blundering your way home down darkened back streets... t will have to be admitted that you did a stupid thing. Doesn't mean you deserve to be , or that someone else's decision to you is in any way less wrong, but it is definitely true that you did a stupid thing and you bear responsibility for that. In the same way that if you leave your front door open and get robbed, the thief has still committed theft and can be prosecuted for that, but your insurance considers you responsible for compromising your security and won't repay you for the goods.
Foxy, I agree that someone who gets themselves drunk is liable for their actions in that even if they were too drunk to control their actions after becoming intoxicated, they still chose to get intoxicated and this applies to rapists as well.
The one exception is if they (back to victims now) didn't choose to get intoxicated:
Quote by Kaznkev
For those who would object i would ask what is the difference between sex with a woman comatose thru drink and a woman drugged with a drug?
Clear, people normally get drunk through their own actions and do therefore have to accept responsibility for shoving the booze down their necks.
a drunk person is still and it's still wrong. Having consensual sex with a drunk person is clearly not a crime, or else we would all be guilty. Having consensual sex with someone who is going to regret it in the morning is also not a crime, or else I've been quite a few times. Having sex with someone who is soooooo drunk they can hardly talk, move or respond to the world around them is... pretty bad. In fact I'd say it's . But, it's not always easy to tell how drunk someone else is, particularly given that people continue becoming drunker as alcohol works its way into their system. I had quite a rational conversation with someone on Saturday night who can't remember it at all now, because she was hammered.
Anywhere between mildly tipsy with reduced inhibitions and comatose, there lies a grey area, if someone appears to be consenting (of course if they're drunkenly refusing there's no grey area at all). It's not very ethical to be taking advantage of someone who's really drunk, unless you're sure they want to be taken advantage of. But at exactly what stage a person becomes incapable of consenting is a really hard issue to define in court, which is why you shouldn't take yourself too close to that line unless you know you're in a safe environment.
If the victim is drunk it's still , and it's still wrong, but they are going to have difficulty making their evidence credible in court if they can't remember what they said; and if they appear to have said yes it becomes a hard case to win. Bottom line, you're responsible for your own safety. If you don't walk down dangerous streets alone late at night, and if you don't get massively drunk unless you're with people who are looking out for you, you are less likely to be . And at the end of the day not being is much better than being and winning the trial. If you expose yourself to risk, you are responsible for your actions in doing that. If someone else takes advantage of it, they're responsible for their actions in you.
; a lady asked me to force her. Was this ? No, she was asking for it. It would not have been , all be it in a round about way. The answer is 'no, I did not'.
So is a woman responsible for being . Well she can be foolish, careless, and place herself in danger, but no way is she responsible.
A woman who says ' me', is only giving up physiological responsibility for what happens, but she can withdraw her consent to be at anytime. In fact she has never given her consent to be , how could she? There is no with consent, if all parties are of the age of consent.
Travis
So is a woman responsible for being . Well she can be foolish, careless, and place herself in danger, but no way is she responsible.
A woman who says ' me', is only giving up physiological responsibility for what happens, but she can withdraw her consent to be at anytime. In fact she has never given her consent to be , how could she? There is no with consent, if all parties are of the age of consent.
Travis
Quote by awayman
A strange one....This was in the Mail today...
Certainly does not help matters!
I know you'll think I'm being antagonistic, but in what way does this thoughtful and carefully reasoned decision to impose a community sentence not help matters?
Never entered my head for a second.
Quote by kentswingers777
A strange one....This was in the Mail today...
Certainly does not help matters!
I know you'll think I'm being antagonistic, but in what way does this thoughtful and carefully reasoned decision to impose a community sentence not help matters?
Never entered my head for a second.
neither did an answer to the question, apparently...
Quote by awayman
A strange one....This was in the Mail today...
Certainly does not help matters!
I know you'll think I'm being antagonistic, but in what way does this thoughtful and carefully reasoned decision to impose a community sentence not help matters?
Never entered my head for a second.
neither did an answer to the question, apparently...
I am not going to even bother to give an answer to a completely ridiculous Question.
Quote by Ms_Whips
, be it of a woman or a man is wrong. no means no no matter at what point the word is said.
it's true that the person who has been is responsible for their own actions to an extent but they can not be at fault for any part of a . however, it is also the responsibility of the other person to assess the situation and have enough about them to leave it well alone. it is not the responsibility of the victim to have to dress a certain way or not drink just so as to stop someone elses actions.
whips
Gosh Whips I was going to say something really similiar and you said it so well!
Orgasminator
No means NO, be it a woman or man saying NO
Sexpert
I agree No means No. And is wrong.
However, when I leave my house I lock the door, lock my windows and set my alarm. I lock my car when I leave it... If I left my house and left the doors and windows open, would I be surprised to come home to find everything gone? No!
Did I deserve to be robbed? Well no. No one deserves it, but it DOES happen, and i'm sure everyone would say, well I have little or no sympathy for you, as you were stupid to leave everything open.
is the same in the respect that no one deserves it, but some women do nothing to help prevent it! It does happen, so taking precautions is sensible. Just relying on "I said NO" is like just relying on a sign on your door saying "Please do not rob me, as this property does not belong to you"!
The act of is wrong, and lives are ruined by it, but how BOTH parties ended up in the position where a could take place is the crux of my despair. The trouble is it is one word used to cover a multitude of situations. And I'm sorry (and I know I'll be hated for saying this) but sometimes the victim has done nothing but play with fire, then complains when she gets burnt! And it is these victims that do nothing for the plight of victims that have found themselves in a situation totally not of their making.
However, when I leave my house I lock the door, lock my windows and set my alarm. I lock my car when I leave it... If I left my house and left the doors and windows open, would I be surprised to come home to find everything gone? No!
Did I deserve to be robbed? Well no. No one deserves it, but it DOES happen, and i'm sure everyone would say, well I have little or no sympathy for you, as you were stupid to leave everything open.
is the same in the respect that no one deserves it, but some women do nothing to help prevent it! It does happen, so taking precautions is sensible. Just relying on "I said NO" is like just relying on a sign on your door saying "Please do not rob me, as this property does not belong to you"!
The act of is wrong, and lives are ruined by it, but how BOTH parties ended up in the position where a could take place is the crux of my despair. The trouble is it is one word used to cover a multitude of situations. And I'm sorry (and I know I'll be hated for saying this) but sometimes the victim has done nothing but play with fire, then complains when she gets burnt! And it is these victims that do nothing for the plight of victims that have found themselves in a situation totally not of their making.
