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A question of group dynamics?
Quote by Alex_FemaleOh gosh, I shall, but like Scandal, real life is coming to bite me on the arse...
Armchair psychology is very interesting, and so are your views, keep them coming .....
or rather the teen who will divorce me as a parent if she doesn`t get to check her damn e-mails!
I`ll be back
Venusxxx
Like some other forum members I have a degree in Psychology and some understanding of human behaviour. I find the dynamics of the the SH society very interesting.
Do people find that they behave the same in here as they do in real life??
I am not at all the same. In RL I'm argumentative and for most of the time due to my job am pretty much the centre of attention. I like being in here as I am able to be on the sidelines and also for some reason don't have the urge to argue the toss but rather let things wash over me more. The SH me is much more laid back than the real me and I'm happy to keep it that way.
Does this mean I'm being fake in here or just a different me?
Do people find that they behave the same in here as they do in real life??
I am not at all the same. In RL I'm argumentative and for most of the time due to my job am pretty much the centre of attention. I like being in here as I am able to be on the sidelines and also for some reason don't have the urge to argue the toss but rather let things wash over me more. The SH me is much more laid back than the real me and I'm happy to keep it that way.
Does this mean I'm being fake in here or just a different me?
Quote by Scandal
One person`s self confidence in not having to take responsibility for sensitivity (which IS a good thing), is to another person a lack of consideration.
Depending upon how you view it. I like try the view out of many windows....
Venusxxx
I like the view from all windows too, but in the end I prefer people who have a preference.
People who can see other peoples' point of view is fine, it means they are probably perceptive, but I want to know which opinion they prefer. Just saying it depends how you look at it is like ... a bit too liberal for me, I prefer people to have opinions, believe in them, be passionate and not too intimidated to say what they believe.
Well just so you know, I prefer the view out of my `considerate` window. It tends to take a discussion much further, and I can sleep at night in the knowledge that I haven`t upset anyone too much! I am passionate enough not to concede to a point if I do not agree with it, but also passionate enough to back down and try a different approach if I feel people are becoming polorised, so that the debate can continue to it`s conclusion. Even if this might mean soothing a ruffled person when their umbrage is not actually my fault (depending upon how wound up I am at the time)! The later really isn`t that important to me in the larger scheme of things.
So a small way is say, on this forum a new person who took the time to read all the threads would find out alot of information about this lifestyle and that positive knowledge would permeate society in a small way. But that won't happen if people sit on their hands and say
"oh well if you find all swingers immoral and seedy then I suppose that's your way of seeing things, I can see your point of view ho hum!"
So I happen to think that opinions are valid and should be expressed because they advance a discussion or the understanding of an argument.
Absolutely, but the success of this end product will very much depend on the recognition understanding of the emotionsinvolved. I agree, there is no point in telling someone that you `see thier point` if you don`t, but equally going completely head to head with a person will likely cement their belief in thier views. No longer will they be up for a discussion, they will be out to `beat` the person who has pissed them off. This is unlikely to be productive.
"There is nothing more powerfull than an idea that has come of it's time" .... now who said that?
Beats the shit outta me! :mrgreen:
Venusxxx
Quote by Ice Pie
Keep it general please, I`m genuinely interested and if barely disguised specifics arise I will ask for the thread to be locked! :P
OK, I promise I won't specifically mention any people who start threads then ask for them to be locked when they don't go the way they want. ;)
Told you I`d get there eventually
So, how do you see people who do this?...you brought it up :mrgreen:
One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right. However, how many of us can truely say that, myself included, in an environment which depends upon people bouncing posts off of one another? I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion?
If you've any sense, you won't want to be immune. Exposing yourself honestly to opinions that differ from your own, listening objectively to what other people have to say, and maybe facing the prospect of changing your mind, is only threatening to the egos of foolish people. Wiser people know they weren't born knowing everything and regard a convincing counter-view as a learning experience rather than a personal defeat.
I have sense, enough to see I should have worded that better you damn word warrior! My opinions stand all the time they have valid reason to do so. Bending for popularity only is not a valid reason.
If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again?
For the same reason that cats purr and gorillas grunt. It's instinctive social bonding.
Granted, but if cause and effect was better understood, would it not be possible to `think` past this for a greater good? We are not gorillas.
Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first.
Yes to both.
Rhetorical question. Play with it you damned !
Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?
Jumping on a bandwagon and ceding to a more persuasive argument are two entirely different things. One is for mental midgets who need to follow the in-crowd and do what they think is expected of them, the other is for free-thinkers who make a conscious choice whether to run with the herd or go their own way. They are easy to distinguish: One always agrees and disagrees with the same people, the other sometimes agrees and sometimes disagrees with the herd.
I knew this too, but what of the people on the receiving end? How does it feel for them when totally outnumbered, be it by the `mental midgets` or the `free thinkers`? Perhaps this might encourage a defensive reaction to what may feel akin to being bullied, and as a result all hell breaks loose? Perhaps if people notice that their point has already been made they could refrain from repeating it, and instead choose to add to it, thus bringing the discussion a step further?
Perhaps it`s the responsibilty of the person who reacts in this way? I don`t know. I`m not up to playing the egg and chicken game tonight.
Perhaps I`m dictating how I think people should approach debate and am being pretentious?
However I`m a consideratepretentious cow, and I can live with that! :mrgreen:
That`s just one line of discussion....I have loooooooads more!
Next!
Did this one earlier....next! :P
Venusxxx
Quote by celticq
Like some other forum members I have a degree in Psychology and some understanding of human behaviour. I find the dynamics of the the SH society very interesting.
Do people find that they behave the same in here as they do in real life??
I am not at all the same. In RL I'm argumentative and for most of the time due to my job am pretty much the centre of attention. I like being in here as I am able to be on the sidelines and also for some reason don't have the urge to argue the toss but rather let things wash over me more. The SH me is much more laid back than the real me and I'm happy to keep it that way.
Does this mean I'm being fake in here or just a different me?
I tend to test my persona online before I have the self confidence to express it fully in real life. I like to test the water. I am MUCH more confident in real life now than I was say....a year ago. It`s a handy test board for me, one I am comfortable in using. I have also used SH to express other traits that I haven`t been able to express in other areas of my life due to responsibilties...eg, I can behave like a total twat here, that twat is very much a part of who I am, and needs to be expressed, but is often denied the opportunity elsewhere.
At a guess Celtic, I would say that my latter is where you are coming from. It`s not a false persona, just one you are, for one reason or another, denied from expressing in real life? How does that sound?
Venusxxx
Sex God
it's too long for individual quotes, but a lot here kinda ties in with a few other threads along similiar lines. there's been a lot of talk about changes in the character of SH ((( cliques, fall outs, pack mentalities, intolerance, moderating etc etc etc ;) ))) those changes are bound to happen IMO as the membership grows ever quicker, the characters involved change, and the site becomes less a single, unified group, and more a collection of different groups, for whatever reason, but there's a definite uneasiness at times about perceived changes.
i'm just wondering if, as swinging goes more mainstream, and more and more people come to the site, do members need to take more responsibility for the content on SH, how we interact with eachother, and the impression it gives, or should we leave that kind of responsibility to moderators, with all that entails as far as complaints about seemingly more active modding / thread locking etc go? ((( not saying that's the case, just it's been suggested. personally i think it's just busier, so mods are busier and modding decisions more apparent. )))
SH is pretty much the public face of swinging, and whether we like it or not, it's subject to scrutiny in the press etc, and in the public imagination, simply because it's far and away the biggest site in the UK. anyone who googles anything swinging / dogging related, for whatever reason, will find SH at the top of the results page, and so the attitudes of our little community are public domain. now that can be a double edged sword, and work for or against.
wondering as well where to draw the line between complete freedom of speech ((( within the AUP ))) and respect for others sensitivities. for example, there was a thread a while back that went on and on, and pretty much polarised some members into two camps . . . those who felt they were just taking the piss, and bantering, and those who felt that that kind of piss taking had a bit of a nasty edge to it, and was causing offence and hurt. personally i tend to believe that my freedom to swing my arms stops where another persons nose starts, but then it's naive to imagine we'll all get on isn't it, and it's fairly easy to cause, and take offence, particularly where you read a certain post a particular way just because of the poster.
i'm not suggesting for one minute we go out of our way to be all lovey dovey at all, or should shy away from contentious opinions, or be overly concerned with maybe causing offence to someone, somewhere, or should withhold an opinion just cos it might be read as a gang thing. just kinda wondering while i try and avoid the whole contentious thread thing for a bit! ;)
n x x x ;)
i'm just wondering if, as swinging goes more mainstream, and more and more people come to the site, do members need to take more responsibility for the content on SH, how we interact with eachother, and the impression it gives, or should we leave that kind of responsibility to moderators, with all that entails as far as complaints about seemingly more active modding / thread locking etc go? ((( not saying that's the case, just it's been suggested. personally i think it's just busier, so mods are busier and modding decisions more apparent. )))
SH is pretty much the public face of swinging, and whether we like it or not, it's subject to scrutiny in the press etc, and in the public imagination, simply because it's far and away the biggest site in the UK. anyone who googles anything swinging / dogging related, for whatever reason, will find SH at the top of the results page, and so the attitudes of our little community are public domain. now that can be a double edged sword, and work for or against.
wondering as well where to draw the line between complete freedom of speech ((( within the AUP ))) and respect for others sensitivities. for example, there was a thread a while back that went on and on, and pretty much polarised some members into two camps . . . those who felt they were just taking the piss, and bantering, and those who felt that that kind of piss taking had a bit of a nasty edge to it, and was causing offence and hurt. personally i tend to believe that my freedom to swing my arms stops where another persons nose starts, but then it's naive to imagine we'll all get on isn't it, and it's fairly easy to cause, and take offence, particularly where you read a certain post a particular way just because of the poster.
i'm not suggesting for one minute we go out of our way to be all lovey dovey at all, or should shy away from contentious opinions, or be overly concerned with maybe causing offence to someone, somewhere, or should withhold an opinion just cos it might be read as a gang thing. just kinda wondering while i try and avoid the whole contentious thread thing for a bit! ;)
n x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
i'm just wondering if, as swinging goes more mainstream, and more and more people come to the site, do members need to take more responsibility for the content on SH, how we interact with eachother, and the impression it gives, or should we leave that kind of responsibility to moderators, with all that entails as far as complaints about seemingly more active modding / thread locking etc go? ((( not saying that's the case, just it's been suggested. personally i think it's just busier, so mods are busier and modding decisions more apparent. )))
aka bumlick :P
Should we take more responsibilty for our interaction for the sake of how swinging is perceived by visitors to the board? I don`t think so. I think we should take more responsibilty for our interactions in all walks of life, the interaction here is simply an extention of this. Mark and the mods do a great job when it comes to providing the tools for people to act responsibly, and are pretty good at clearing up traffic accidents/catering to popular opinion, I think the responsibility should end there, after all we are all adults.
personally i tend to believe that my freedom to swing my arms stops where another persons nose starts,
I like that. Just thought I`d say
but then it's naive to imagine we'll all get on isn't it, and it's fairly easy to cause, and take offence, particularly where you read a certain post a particular way just because of the poster.
True, it is niave, but where is the comfortable and considerate line drawn when accepting that a clash of personality is impossible to communicate with? Sometimes I feel that it is drawn too soon. Sometimes I even feel that there is a certain pride in not being seen as niave, which encourages people to draw too a harsh line.
or be overly concerned with maybe causing offence to someone,
Define `overly concerned`. :mrgreen:
somewhere, or should withhold an opinion just cos it might be read as a gang thing.
Me neither, just exploring ideas of a more proactive approach
Ok, this last post was crap(mine Neil, mine!).
Encroaching on serious alcohol territory now, so I`ll shut up!
Venusxxx
Quote by neilinleeds
personally i tend to believe that my freedom to swing my arms stops where another persons nose starts,
Well that certainly restricts other peoples arm swinging wherever you are!!! :shock:
:? :? 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote by VenusnMars
Encroaching on serious alcohol territory now, so I`ll shut up!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
:whistling: :whistling: :whistling: :whistling: Sex God
Quote by VenusnMars
just kinda wondering while i try and avoid the whole contentious thread thing for a bit! ;)
n x x x ;)
Gonna be contentious and disagree with you in a mo Neil....
I want my glass of wine first! :mrgreen:
Venusxxx
OMFG! i DO NOT believe it!
venus is lost for words! :smug:
now that's surely a first?
n x x x :P
bollox! cheeky cow posted while i was downloading thud emoticons!
Sex God
AAAAAAAAAw i always miss the good threads and get to them after the jokey end banter !
As a self confessed ( and often pointed out by others ) conceited ass I can say that it is very rare I jump on a band wagon , but I will say that there are some occasions the better minds in this little corner of the net have made me think and change my views a little . Thats doesnt sound like much , but Silky will tell ya thats a great feat with someone as bloody minded as me . The environment of a forum is perfect for someone who can be as adamant as I am , as it gives the option of emphatic comment without fear of being over bearing ( which I can be face to face ) , but that doesnt mean I dont take in what you all say , I promise :-)
G
As a self confessed ( and often pointed out by others ) conceited ass I can say that it is very rare I jump on a band wagon , but I will say that there are some occasions the better minds in this little corner of the net have made me think and change my views a little . Thats doesnt sound like much , but Silky will tell ya thats a great feat with someone as bloody minded as me . The environment of a forum is perfect for someone who can be as adamant as I am , as it gives the option of emphatic comment without fear of being over bearing ( which I can be face to face ) , but that doesnt mean I dont take in what you all say , I promise :-)
G
Sex God
Quote by VenusnMars
if barely disguised specifics arise I will ask for the thread to be locked! :P
OK, I promise I won't specifically mention any people who start threads then ask for them to be locked when they don't go the way they want. ;)
Told you I`d get there eventually
So, how do you see people who do this?...you brought it up :mrgreen:
Er, if you note who said the bit in bold, I think you'll find I didn't.
how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion?
If you've any sense, you won't want to be immune.
I have sense, enough to see I should have worded that better you damn word warrior! My opinions stand all the time they have valid reason to do so. Bending for popularity only is not a valid reason.
To some it might be. If social survival is as important to the individual as physical survival, then agreeing with someone farther up the pecking order would be just as valid, to that person, as agreeing with someone who has a gun to their head.
If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again?
For the same reason that cats purr and gorillas grunt. It's instinctive social bonding.
Granted, but if cause and effect was better understood, would it not be possible to `think` past this for a greater good? We are not gorillas.
We are not gorillas, but we share with them the instincts of our common ancestors. Those instincts probably developed in a time and place where social conformity was the greater good, for the individual as well as for the collective, and may still be to some extent. Yes, we can think past the programming if we want to, but don't count on altruism to influence that - there's no such thing.
Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first.
Yes to both.
Rhetorical question. Play with it you damned !
It wasn't rhetorical, it was an invitation to agree. Gorillas grunting again. ;)
Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?
Jumping on a bandwagon and ceding to a more persuasive argument are two entirely different things.
I knew this too, but what of the people on the receiving end? How does it feel for them when totally outnumbered, be it by the `mental midgets` or the `free thinkers`? Perhaps this might encourage a defensive reaction to what may feel akin to being bullied, and as a result all hell breaks loose?
Depending on their strength of character and confidence in their position, they will feel anywhere from heroically defiant to utterly invalidated. Somewhere between those extremes is an openness to persuasion.
Perhaps if people notice that their point has already been made they could refrain from repeating it, and instead choose to add to it, thus bringing the discussion a step further?
And if they have nothing further to add but wish to express their support for whoever has voiced their view, is that not a valid contribution? An indicator of how close the group is to consensus?
Perhaps it`s the responsibilty of the person who reacts in this way? I don`t know. I`m not up to playing the egg and chicken game tonight.
I think the responsibility is collective as well as individual. To make it solely individual would be to imply that all points of view should remain either unexpressed or unanswered. That's not going to happen, obviously, and however much you may try to rationalise the interaction, intellect will never completely submerge the instincts and emotions, just as the collective dynamic will never completely submerge the individual personalities.
Perhaps I`m dictating how I think people should approach debate and am being pretentious?
I don't think you're being pretentious, perhaps just a bit polarized in your approach. I don't think you can analyse collective behaviour purely in terms of the group dynamic, because the group is composed of unpredictable individuals. Seems to me that people in a crowd are acting both collectively and individually at the same time, and they're doing on both an intellectual and an instinctive basis.
Now, admittedly I have no formal psych training, and I haven't really given a great deal of thought to this particular aspect, this is just me saying what I think I see. I also admit it's a bit of a cop out by way of being a self-fulfilling prophecy because some of my response is analytical and some of it is gut reaction, which rather sneakily ties up my point about the interplay between intelligence and instinct, cos I'm devious like that. :twisted:
But hey, it was either this or Star Trek, so there you have it. :)
Quote by Silk and Big G
AAAAAAAAAw i always miss the good threads and get to them after the jokey end banter !
It`s not jokey end banter, it`s a commercial break ;) I`m still waiting for Ice to dismantle me!
As a self confessed ( and often pointed out by others ) conceited ass
Self-awareness is always a valuable thing! :lol2:
but that doesnt mean I dont take in what you all say , I promise :-)
G
I know you do
Venusxxx
Sex God
Quote by Jas-Tim
:P
Jas
XXX
I promise to make amends and reinstate proper homage to Jean Luc & co tomorrow. ;)
Anyway, it's shut her up for a while. It'll take her ages to answer that lot.
(Luv ya really Venus
) 
Sex God
*sigh* Youngsters today, no stamina. 
Sex God
*whines*
Not TONIGHT Ice, I`ve been drinking!
*sob*
Venusxxx
now now venus, what kind of piss poor excuse is that? after all, you kinda of just plain asked for it didntcha with this . . .
Quote by VenusnMars
AAAAAAAAAw i always miss the good threads and get to them after the jokey end banter !
It`s not jokey end banter, it`s a commercial break ;) I`m still waiting for Ice to dismantle me!
Venusxxx
that'll teach yer eh? ;)
n x x x :P
I hate you all! There I was this afternoon, posting and posting, in some cases three posts in a row! Where the fuck were you all then?!
I`ll tell you! Waiting for Venus to hit the wine so you could all cope with my cerebral prowess! I know your game! Couldn`t cope with my superior intellect could you! Any of you! Had to pick on me when I`m half cut!
Well, it`s ok, really it is. I can let it go....after all, I am the bigger person here :mrgreen: :smug:
And Ice, stop being so bloody pedantic!
Venusxxx
I`ll tell you! Waiting for Venus to hit the wine so you could all cope with my cerebral prowess! I know your game! Couldn`t cope with my superior intellect could you! Any of you! Had to pick on me when I`m half cut!
Well, it`s ok, really it is. I can let it go....after all, I am the bigger person here :mrgreen: :smug:
And Ice, stop being so bloody pedantic!
Venusxxx
Quote by Jas-Tim
Well, it`s ok, really it is. I can let it go....after all, I am the bigger person here :mrgreen:
Venusxxx
No you're not, you're tiny. Even I'm bigger than you :P :P
Ok I'll stop now, promise
Jas
XXX
ROFL you beat me too it Jas ... the minute I read that post I thought the same ;)
And I'm a midget!!!!
assionkiss: