A question of group dynamics?

23 Jan 2005

Just to annoy the snot out of those who hate armchair psychology :twisted: , let`s bounce a few theories around on how people interact on here, and further afield.
Serious question. Not an opportunity for people to complainof cliques, and mob mentality etc, although I`m happy to hear theories on how these are seen to be formed and why, if at all. Keep it general please, I`m genuinely interested and if barely disguised specifics arise I will ask for the thread to be locked! :P
One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right. However, how many of us can truely say that, myself included, in an environment which depends upon people bouncing posts off of one another? I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion? If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again? Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first. Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?
This isn`t influenced by any onething, but from a general observation......and the fact I think too much! :mrgreen:
That`s just one line of discussion....I have loooooooads more! :bounce:
mods: I need somethingto keep my brain ticking and to keep me out of trouble! wink

:giggle:
Venusxxx

23 Jan 2005

I think I know what your on about.....
fuck it..
no I dont.....
what are you on about????? rolleyes

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

23 Jan 2005

I feel the need to channel the spirit of Ralph Wiggum...
My china dog smells of china.

23 Jan 2005

I guess I can't resist this one.
There's only one point I'd like to make and that is the rules of normal conversation do not apply when conversing remotely in writing. All the nuances of meaning conveyed by, say a raised eyebrow or emphasis on one word as opposed to another, are not available. this is why I think a lot of spats break out.
This in turn demands the acqisition of certain unwritten protocols, arising out of what is conditioned as acceptable behaviour (I'm talking beyond the AUP here) and often only possible when one knows the individual who is speaking.
Newcomers cannot be expected to have that skill (sorry if that sounds a bit specific but it truly isn't - it is generic)

23 Jan 2005

why don't you say what you mean venus honey, you don't creep to get in with the clique lol

, but you prefer to say it as you see it... i likewise prefer to say my piece, and whether anyone bothers to take notice or not is of little concern to me... it is nice if someone comments occasionally as some do, but not essential... i do on occasions find myself influenced by thing i read on the web... i've even had my mind changed by others on certain subjects when they've explained things more clearly than i understood before.
if i agree with a point i'll say so, if i disagree i'll say so, if something i've said appears to need further clarification, i'll clarify... i have found a fair bit of interest and attempted to strike up a conversation with little success... i have found a lot of complete disinterest or purile crap, in which case i usually hi-jack the thread with something unrelated, or designed to wind up.
this isn't the only board i frequent, i have many thousands of posts on other boards, can't see me staying long enough to get into the thousands here... but i could be wrong, i might hang about cos of the lovely horny pm's i keep getting from lovely hot natured guys:twisted:
another thing about me, i don't suffer fools gladly and will always stick up for myself and my rights, in public or private, except when i'm in sedate mode, then i just take the piss.

23 Jan 2005

One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right.

as they should. if you have a personal opinion, then it's perfectly right to hold to it, and say so.

I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion?

aahhhh tricky question that one! it's always easier to go with the flow than swim against it eh? no matter how open minded and free thinking we believe ourselves to be, we're never quite free of mores and etiquette and majorities are we?

If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again? Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first.

probably a bit of both. but so long as it's a genuine opinion, then it's valid, and maybe a touch of consensus on contentious issues gives an idea of what SH is like, if that opinion is widely held and expressed? has to be expressed in the right way though, which isn't always easy through the impersonality of the net. easy to forget that my intention in the writing is not so easy to understand in the reading, unless you phrase very carefully, or know the personalities involved?

Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?

i'm sure it can sometimes be read as a bandwagon. all depends what kind of bandwagon, and where it's headed. and also depends on who's doing the reading, and whether they read the bandwagon as a gang. it's not always easy to read, even for me, and i can often get it wrong. if you know the personalities and the kind of banter, you read it as such. if you don't, dunno how you'd read it. kinda subjective that one?

I think too much!

yup!

;)
n x x x x ;)

23 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
Serious question. Not an opportunity for people to complain of cliques, and mob mentality etc, although I`m happy to hear theories on how these are seen to be formed and why, if at all.

I think sometimes that people can perceive a clicque when what they are actually seeing is people who have met and know each other outside of the forum. They interact in a way that people who haven't met - or chatted on MSN etc can't. If people feel this is cliquey - then "shame on them". It is just natural dynamics!! Some people also "click" on here - and why not! Still doesn't make it cliquey.

Quote by VenusnMars
One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right. However, how many of us can truely say that, myself included, in an environment which depends upon people bouncing posts off of one another? I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion? If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again? Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first. Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?

If I reply to a serious thread - sometimes someone has already said what I wanted to say (only usually better than I would). I like to re-inforce that I have the same opinion. I would never agree with someone just becuase it appears to be the majority view. I have no problem with being disagreed with - or even flamed. If I have an opinion - it is MY opinion. If I don't have an opinion I don't post.
Sometimes I would love to jump in on some of the humerous posts - but don't becuase I don't have the wit of others on here. But I laugh along and enjoy them. And sometimes I like to express that with a laughing emoticon. Just to express that.
Mostly the quality of my posts depend on how pissed or stoned I am!!!! redface

23 Jan 2005

I guess i cant resist one either....
I understand the nuances as was put earlier..but...
dont patronise the folk that use this site with a load of clever shit that most folk dont understand..(or is it me been thick)
why cant you leave it simple or are you talking in code for the so called "Cliche"
sorry if this as upset anyone but if folk wanna talk like this then why dont they PM each other
evil

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

23 Jan 2005

Quote by ant140
I guess i cant resist one either....
I understand the nuances as was put earlier..but...
dont patronise the folk that use this site with a load of clever shit that most folk dont understand..(or is it me been thick)
why cant you leave it simple or are you talking in code for the so called "Cliche"
sorry if this as upset anyone but if folk wanna talk like this then why dont they PM each other
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I thought the discussion might open up a little understanding and tolorance, which is one of the reasons I started the thread.
I am happy for you to take it to PM if you have a problem with my motives?
Venusxxx

23 Jan 2005

Quote by ant140
I guess i cant resist one either....
I understand the nuances as was put earlier..but...
dont patronise the folk that use this site with a load of clever shit that most folk dont understand..(or is it me been thick)
why cant you leave it simple or are you talking in code for the so called "Cliche"
sorry if this as upset anyone but if folk wanna talk like this then why dont they PM each other
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I guess that is aimed at me. You're right I do talk pure shite on occasions. On re-reading I think the offending paragraph is:
"This in turn demands the acqisition of certain unwritten protocols, arising out of what is conditioned as acceptable behaviour (I'm talking beyond the AUP here) and often only possible when one knows the individual who is speaking."
Which I now re-phrase as:
"This means you've got to careful how you write and read messages. Over time we get into the habit of doing this in a certain way. Trouble is often easier to avoid when you know the person who is posting.
and
Newcomers cannot be expected to know about this."
I'm sorry I genuinely was not trying to be cliquey.

23 Jan 2005

i think this is really interesting Venus and I wish I had your intelligence and capacity for big-word-usage to be able to express my opinions so eloquently. rolleyes

I've thought a lot about the group dynamics thingummy on here and had several discussions with other site members.
i don't agree with the majority most of the time. I have strong opinions and I'm not afraid to express them - anymore! I've spent all my life trying to make other people happy and failing miserably, making myself miserable in the process.
i'm only here for me, no one else. I will try not to deliberately offend anyone but I am not ashamed of what I think nor scared to say what I think.
Quite often, I don't see a thread till loads of people have already posted on it and like Rainbows said, with an opinion or comment I agree with but in a better way.
I think we all, at some point, need a little reassurance that we're not alone in our beliefs so having someone publicly agree with us is comforting.

23 Jan 2005

Quote by ant140
I guess i cant resist one either....
I understand the nuances as was put earlier..but...
dont patronise the folk that use this site with a load of clever shit that most folk dont understand..(or is it me been thick)
why cant you leave it simple or are you talking in code for the so called "Cliche"
sorry if this as upset anyone but if folk wanna talk like this then why dont they PM each other
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

OK I rarely get angry at stupid posts I tend to leave them but ..... just because YOU don't want to take part in the discussion doesn't mean it is any less valid.
For crying out loud some of the posts on here could bore the boots off a dead man .... at least Venus post is something different and appeals to the intellect of different individuals.
Taking it to pm would do what????? all is serve to do is reinforce this pathetic idea of cliques and doesn't involve a wider variety of individuals.
Back off with the nastiness ... it's taken you more effort to type the post and you have possibly irritated a few people for what???? dunno

I'm not saying your opinion is any less valid but what has it added to the thread???
C

23 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
Just to annoy the snot out of those who hate armchair psychology :twisted: , let`s bounce a few theories around on how people interact on here, and further afield.
Serious question. Not an opportunity for people to complain of cliques, and mob mentality etc, although I`m happy to hear theories on how these are seen to be formed and why, if at all. Keep it general please, I`m genuinely interested and if barely disguised specifics arise I will ask for the thread to be locked! :P
People will always perceive cliques, whether there or not, admitted to or not. This is partially because some have met while others haven't. Some post in a similar vein to others and so the banter flows more easily between them., etc.
It's a fact of life and the truth of these forums is the dynamic continually changes as new members come along and make their impacts.
One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right. However, how many of us can truely say that, myself included, in an environment which depends upon people bouncing posts off of one another? I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion? If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again? Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first. Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?
I try very hard to keep my own opinions but quite often those that are more quick witted than me will beat me to the post.
I then have to decide whether to post again, but not as clearly as them, or leave it knowing that someone has already posted my sentiments.
I think the choice is normally dictated by my mood at the time, unless it's an opinion that I feel strongly about and I wish to reinforce what others may already have said.
I will disagree with others if I need to, but will often refrain from posting rather than getting into a kerfuffle with somebody over nothing.
Again it depends on how important the topic is to me.
This isn`t influenced by any one thing, but from a general observation......and the fact I think too much! :mrgreen:
We know
That`s just one line of discussion....I have loooooooads more! :bounce:
mods: I need something to keep my brain ticking and to keep me out of trouble! :giggle:
Stop drinking coffee and get some sleep then
Venusxxx

23 Jan 2005

I actually enjoy it when something really clicks for me. It may be solving some logic or unravelling a problem. I feel I have learned and gained some wisdom. However life and people have a way of changing so that all that head scratching and wisdom finding can suddenly become redundant or temporarily out of intellectual fashion. So we all have to start again.
Still, I have fantasies about book worms, librarians in brogues and real nylons, and brainboxes and egghead bi guys, mature ladies in bifocals, academic munches etc.........

23 Jan 2005

Quote by Scandal
dont patronise the folk that use this site with a load of clever shit that most folk dont understand..(or is it me been thick)
why cant you leave it simple or are you talking in code for the so called "Cliche"
sorry if this as upset anyone but if folk wanna talk like this then why dont they PM each other

Top drawer ant.
Adds to the discussion loads.
ouch!
i can see the point. there's loads of in jokes, shared experiences, history, innuendos, that will no doubt be pretty obscure to most. but there's bound to be, cos we've bantered on threads way back, met in real life, bombed eachothers PM boxes to pieces, etc. occasionally you see accusations of munchers vs non-munchers, swingers vs non-swingers, but in any community, some will know more of some than others? only natural, and that's surely a strength, and a testament to SH's success, rather than something to be critical of? dunno

neil x x x x ;)

23 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again?

If it's my opinion that is involved, then it will take me bluddy ages to type up a post. By the time I've done that, then gone back edited it, previewed, re-typed it, previewed, corrected spelling etc - finally get round to posting it, all chuffed with myself, only to see about 300 other buggers have already beaten me to it!! :shock: mad

23 Jan 2005

Sorry...maybe I shouldnt have posted on this thread..
but it pisses me of and no doubt countless others when threads are full of interlectual shite..as if some people are trying to prove themselves...
I really hope these people are as clever as what they make out but as I mentioned earlier on my last post...just dont patronise!!!
Im sorry for upsetting the folk that have posted on this thread

23 Jan 2005

And I`m very sorry if you found me patronising. I didn`t intend to be smile

Venusxxx

23 Jan 2005

Quote by ant140
Sorry...maybe I shouldnt have posted on this thread..
but it pisses me of and no doubt countless others when threads are full of interlectual shite..as if some people are trying to prove themselves...
I really hope these people are as clever as what they make out but as I mentioned earlier on my last post...just dont patronise!!!
Im sorry for upsetting the folk that have posted on this thread

Can everybody get off ant140's case? He's flucking right! I was the offender and now I've put it right. Humble pie eaten redface

ops: . Now can we get on with what is a great discussion.
Is this group dynamics in action ?? lol

24 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
Keep it general please, I`m genuinely interested and if barely disguised specifics arise I will ask for the thread to be locked! :P

OK, I promise I won't specifically mention any people who start threads then ask for them to be locked when they don't go the way they want. ;)

One sentiment I try to maintain personally, is that my opinions stand in their own right. However, how many of us can truely say that, myself included, in an environment which depends upon people bouncing posts off of one another? I mean, how immune are we really from being influenced by a common opinion?

If you've any sense, you won't want to be immune. Exposing yourself honestly to opinions that differ from your own, listening objectively to what other people have to say, and maybe facing the prospect of changing your mind, is only threatening to the egos of foolish people. Wiser people know they weren't born knowing everything and regard a convincing counter-view as a learning experience rather than a personal defeat.

If a sentiment comes up on a thread, and is echoed by others, why does it need to be said again and again?

For the same reason that cats purr and gorillas grunt. It's instinctive social bonding.

Is it a personal need to voice the same opinion but in your own words, or perhaps some feel a little braver once someone has stepped forward first.

Yes to both.

Is it possible that once everyone has had this opportunity a `bandwagon` is seen?

Jumping on a bandwagon and ceding to a more persuasive argument are two entirely different things. One is for mental midgets who need to follow the in-crowd and do what they think is expected of them, the other is for free-thinkers who make a conscious choice whether to run with the herd or go their own way. They are easy to distinguish: One always agrees and disagrees with the same people, the other sometimes agrees and sometimes disagrees with the herd.

That`s just one line of discussion....I have loooooooads more!

Next!

24 Jan 2005

Quote by duncanlondon
Still, I have fantasies about librarians

Little Gem, Little Gem - over here - here!!! No HERE!!!! Kooooieeeee.
ahem - time to go to bed?

24 Jan 2005

Quote by westerross
Sorry...maybe I shouldnt have posted on this thread..
but it pisses me of and no doubt countless others when threads are full of interlectual shite..as if some people are trying to prove themselves...
I really hope these people are as clever as what they make out but as I mentioned earlier on my last post...just dont patronise!!!
Im sorry for upsetting the folk that have posted on this thread

Can everybody get off ant140's case? He's flucking right! I was the offender and now I've put it right. Humble pie eaten redface

ops: . Now can we get on with what is a great discussion.
Is this group dynamics in action ?? lol

I think so Tune, and it`s fascinating! You did sound like you had a mouthful of marbles there! I can be pretty wordy myself (a really BAD habit) and often end up confusing the shit out of myself!
Anyway, there has been some great input, and I`m itching to post my responses, but it`s late, and I`m making too much noise (light sleeper next to me)! It`ll have to wait til tomorrow.
Back to my insomniac lurking!
Venusxxx

24 Jan 2005

somebody as to put a spanner in the works....
obviously me!!!!!
wink

:wink: :wink: :wink:

24 Jan 2005

Quote by ant140
somebody as to put a spanner in the works....
obviously me!!!!!
:wink: :wink: :wink:

Naaah you`re alright, we salvaged it! :wink:
Now stop making me post you bugger or Mars will string me up! :shock: smackbottom

Venusxxx

24 Jan 2005

I think people should say what they think all the time

OK Scandal, you're a crap waiter lol

Where's my drink ?
I say what I think; we can't all agree on everything, life would be soooooooo bloody boring. I wouldn't consider myself as one of the herd (even though I have been called a cow occasionally) and don't jump on bandwagons just for the sake of agreeing with particular people. People might not like what I think sometimes, but then again, I might not always like what they say. Hey ho, :lol:
Bev
xx
mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

24 Jan 2005

As a rule, I try not to get involved with debates, mainly because I am a Mod, and everything I write here is seen as being from the Mods point of view, but also because there are so many on here that can express themselves better than I can, in which case I wait for them to post what I wished I had said then I follow it up with lots of :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and noises of agreement.
Every now and then I become so involved, or so angry, I have to join in and voice my opinion. By the time I get to that stage, I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not - It is just a case of being honest!!
It is unavoidable that there will be what seems to be an "In Crowd". That In Crowd is constantly changing however. The people that influenced me to join in with this site have either gone or rarely post now so the dynamics of the site have changed. The people I considered to be Newbies six months ago are the same people that I now look forward to reading their posts, in the same way I did the old crowd from 12 months ago. In six months time it will have all changed again.

24 Jan 2005

Quote by Sgt Bilko
It is unavoidable that there will be what seems to be an "In Crowd".

Yes there will always seem to be that - but that even changes daily. Depends on who is online and who is "connecting" at the time. Surely most people must recognise that. As a newbie I enjoyed that "in crowd" banter. For one it gave me hours of fun trying to work out who actually "knew" each other. Still does (okay - I need to get a life I know!!!!). But it also gave me sense of "security". Knowing that if i hung around long enough and got myself known enough - didn't ruffle too many feathers etc - that one day I may also be "accepted" and make my own connections and thereby become part of something that I saw to be quite special. (Yip - definitely need to get out more!).
I find that I just don't "get" the whole "clicque" thing and the agresssion towards it. Perhaps it comes from being a "minority" in the real world where ones social life revolves around two gay pubs. First time you walk in - you're new. Everyone seems to know each other. You have to make an effort to get to know people. I f you don't make that effort you will always be an "outsider". But once you have made the effort you become part of the furniture and are seen through a newbies eyes as "one of the in crowd". dunno

It's a strange old world - but I just find SH an extension of that.
And now I REALLY should get to bed!!!!! But you see - you guys keep me up. It is ALL your fault!!!

24 Jan 2005

Quote by Rainbows

It is unavoidable that there will be what seems to be an "In Crowd".

Yes there will always seem to be that - but that even changes daily. Depends on who is online and who is "connecting" at the time. Surely most people must recognise that. As a newbie I enjoyed that "in crowd" banter. For one it gave me hours of fun trying to work out who actually "knew" each other. Still does (okay - I need to get a life I know!!!!). But it also gave me sense of "security". Knowing that if i hung around long enough and got myself known enough - didn't ruffle too many feathers etc - that one day I may also be "accepted" and make my own connections and thereby become part of something that I saw to be quite special. (Yip - definitely need to get out more!).
I find that I just don't "get" the whole "clicque" thing and the agresssion towards it. Perhaps it comes from being a "minority" in the real world where ones social life revolves around two gay pubs. First time you walk in - you're new. Everyone seems to know each other. You have to make an effort to get to know people. I f you don't make that effort you will always be an "outsider". But once you have made the effort you become part of the furniture and are seen through a newbies eyes as "one of the in crowd". dunno

It's a strange old world - but I just find SH an extension of that.
And now I REALLY should get to bed!!!!! But you see - you guys keep me up. It is ALL your fault!!!
:thumbup: ((( in a sarge stylee ;) ))) and a passionkiss

*note to self : take notes on the whole succinct thing . . . . lol

*
n x x x ;)

24 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
You did sound like you had a mouthful of marbles there!

Oi! No need for you to join in :!: lol

Group Dynamics my arse. (And don't tell Warwick about the marbles.)

24 Jan 2005

I think there are several in-crowds actually.
Ok, I'm getting my coat ....... rolleyes