Bit of advice please? Just wondering what peoples thoughts are, or any advice to give I would be happy to listen.
My brother lives in a Community Home up north, he’s over 50 yrs of age, unable to speak, walk and has very little understanding. When my sisters visited him at Xmas they noticed something wrong with his eyes, as the manager wasn’t on duty over the weekend my sisters called when they got back home.
They asked if it had been noticed and if he had seen anyone about it.. During the conversation it was agreed that yes they was a problem and they would make an appointment for him. Both my sisters offered to take him or attend the hospital appointment. The manger told them that no-one from the family would be needed for any appointments whatsoever.
So they asked to be kept informed. No-one heard anything so my older sis who lives I Oz emailed to be updated on any news at the end of January. No reply until last week to say his appointment was on the Friday of that week. Sis replied to this email asking if family would be involved with any decision made.
They replied and said No, he would have an advocate to help make that decision with him. When my other sister called on Friday to ask how he got on, it was revealed that they were unable get an advocate and staff will make the decision with no family involvement at all.
I have always believed that family as next of kin should be informed of any health matters and be involved with decision making. I know he is an adult but he is unable to make an informed decision. I realised that staff are his carers and spend more time with him than family do, due to distance. Still think we should have some say in his well-being…
We feel a little excluded to be honest.
Anyone have any valued insight?
Same place different issue :
When my sisters visited, my sister told me of an incident that happened in the sitting room. One of female staff members came in to talk to one of the house mates, he Spina bifida and is in a wheelchair. He’s a flirty girty by all accounts… anyway the member of staff was joking with him and then turned round, sat on his lap and wiggled her arse….
I think that behaviour is totally inappropriate and felt quite shocked that had happened. Anyone else agree? Or are we being overly sensitive at the moment?
Thanks in advance
xanaisx
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Advice/suggestions please? Re: Community Homes
Sex God
Were there any conditions laid down when you brother was admitted to the home ?
In other words was it written down that due to the lack of family close at hand then staff/management would/should make any desisions regarding his health care ?
I dont know how homes work but perhaps Sassy may be able to shed some light as she has some similar experience I believe...
With regards to the member of staff sitting on the guys lap and wiggling her arse yes it was probably inappropriate especially when family visiting other residents were witness to it...
It may well happen regularly and may well serve to make that particular residents days more enjoyable but still its not the done thing IMO...
Hope you manage to find a suitable resolution
In other words was it written down that due to the lack of family close at hand then staff/management would/should make any desisions regarding his health care ?
I dont know how homes work but perhaps Sassy may be able to shed some light as she has some similar experience I believe...
With regards to the member of staff sitting on the guys lap and wiggling her arse yes it was probably inappropriate especially when family visiting other residents were witness to it...
It may well happen regularly and may well serve to make that particular residents days more enjoyable but still its not the done thing IMO...
Hope you manage to find a suitable resolution
Sex God
Not sure if this is of any help Anais but if you google the Mental Capacity Act you may get some pointers there.
"Same place different issue :
When my sisters visited, my sister told me of an incident that happened in the sitting room. One of female staff members came in to talk to one of the house mates, he Spina bifida and is in a wheelchair. He’s a flirty girty by all accounts… anyway the member of staff was joking with him and then turned round, sat on his lap and wiggled her arse….
I think that behaviour is totally inappropriate "
I think I would make a formal complaint about this particular home Anais. If this kind of thing is happening in front of visitors, what is happening when there are no visitors around.
Also if the general care of its residents is below par it certainley needs looking into
"Same place different issue :
When my sisters visited, my sister told me of an incident that happened in the sitting room. One of female staff members came in to talk to one of the house mates, he Spina bifida and is in a wheelchair. He’s a flirty girty by all accounts… anyway the member of staff was joking with him and then turned round, sat on his lap and wiggled her arse….
I think that behaviour is totally inappropriate "
I think I would make a formal complaint about this particular home Anais. If this kind of thing is happening in front of visitors, what is happening when there are no visitors around.
Also if the general care of its residents is below par it certainley needs looking into
Quote by Steve
Were there any conditions laid down when you brother was admitted to the home ?
In other words was it written down that due to the lack of family close at hand then staff/management would/should make any desisions regarding his health care ?
Thats actually very difficuilt for any of us to answer. We were young (all under 11 yrs old) when he entered what was then *institutional care*. My mother would know but shes in a very confused state at the moment and quite ill. We dont want to upset her so trying to sort things.
My sisters did find out at Xmas from staff members that they had no next of kin contact on file. I find that hard to believe personally because my Mother recieves Mothers Day Cards and floweres from him (except this year). She has also recieved phone calls about his health before (not this time).
My sisters said that all the members of staff are new in the last six months. Someone may have had a sort out of the files and contact details have got lost.
Quote by Steve
I dont know how homes work but perhaps Sassy may be able to shed some light as she has some similar experience I believe...
With regards to the member of staff sitting on the guys lap and wiggling her arse yes it was probably inappropriate especially when family visiting other residents were witness to it...
It may well happen regularly and may well serve to make that particular residents days more enjoyable but still its not the done thing IMO...
Hope you manage to find a suitable resolution
Thanks Steve :kiss:
I find what she did very unprofessional personally.
Quote by helnheaven
Not sure if this is of any help Anais but if you google the Mental Capacity Act you may get some pointers there.
Thanks Hel, will check that out
Quote by helnheaven
"Same place different issue :
When my sisters visited, my sister told me of an incident that happened in the sitting room. One of female staff members came in to talk to one of the house mates, he Spina bifida and is in a wheelchair. He’s a flirty girty by all accounts… anyway the member of staff was joking with him and then turned round, sat on his lap and wiggled her arse….
I think that behaviour is totally inappropriate "
I think I would make a formal complaint about this particular home Anais. If this kind of thing is happening in front of visitors, what is happening when there are no visitors around.
Also if the general care of its residents is below par it certainley needs looking into
Up untill Xmas we were all happy with this place, hes been in this one since 1990 and staff have been fantastic in the past.
I very much agree with what youve said too. what is happening when visitors are around? Its a scary thought!
I'm just wondering if the same people are still running the home or if it is under new management 
I think it is shocking that a member of staff would wiggle on a persons lap :eeek:
I can't give an decent advice other than make a surprise visit out of hours or ask for help from social services.
My Grandma was in a home about 15 years ago. She was visited every day by my Dad or his sister. Sadly because of althzilmers and other problems my Grandma was having, no one noticed she was being verbally, physically and sexually abused until the bruising moved to a more obvious part of her body.
The couple that had recently taken over the home were sent down.
If you're not happy with things, dig deeper or go and visit anais, please
I think it is shocking that a member of staff would wiggle on a persons lap :eeek:
I can't give an decent advice other than make a surprise visit out of hours or ask for help from social services.
My Grandma was in a home about 15 years ago. She was visited every day by my Dad or his sister. Sadly because of althzilmers and other problems my Grandma was having, no one noticed she was being verbally, physically and sexually abused until the bruising moved to a more obvious part of her body.
The couple that had recently taken over the home were sent down.
If you're not happy with things, dig deeper or go and visit anais, please
Sex God
anais
I know nothing about this sort of thing, but really I should, my mother is in a nursing home and has been for several years, I do know that the nursing home does keep my brother fully informed, by either phone, or when he visits, and he has been asked to come in and see the manager to sort out relevant care / medical type stuff for our mother.
I would suggest, contact the local social services and or as has already been suggested go and visit.
Otherwise :kiss: 
I know nothing about this sort of thing, but really I should, my mother is in a nursing home and has been for several years, I do know that the nursing home does keep my brother fully informed, by either phone, or when he visits, and he has been asked to come in and see the manager to sort out relevant care / medical type stuff for our mother.
I would suggest, contact the local social services and or as has already been suggested go and visit.
Otherwise
:kiss: Quote by helnheaven
Not sure if this is of any help Anais but if you google the Mental Capacity Act you may get some pointers there.
Yep and also a site called
A lot of my modules last year were based on care and assessment in vulnerable people, elderly and people with disabilities. From what I've learnt all family members have to be kept up to date and informed off all matters as part of care plans.
I'm afraid I've also learnt of some horror stories in homes, but I won't start on that one.
Check out the websites Anais, failing that I can have a word with my Lecturer and get back to you.
Sex God
not alot to add, i really dont know alot, (i did placements in them some years ago but just short stints and things differ from care home to care home as to needs etc. The behaviour your sister witnessed is highly unapropriate though and should be reported.
As for family being informed we had the same thing before christmas when my great aunty was in a care home (she had alzeimers (sp) she became ill and was took into the main hospital for medical attention where she later died that night, my nana (next of kin) did not find out she was ill or indeed had been took into hospital until the following day still she did not find out until she went to visit that she had infact died and it came to light she was dead when my nana had received the first phonecall to say she was in hospital. im not sure what the outcome was but i know it was reported as bad protocol?.
As for family being informed we had the same thing before christmas when my great aunty was in a care home (she had alzeimers (sp) she became ill and was took into the main hospital for medical attention where she later died that night, my nana (next of kin) did not find out she was ill or indeed had been took into hospital until the following day still she did not find out until she went to visit that she had infact died and it came to light she was dead when my nana had received the first phonecall to say she was in hospital. im not sure what the outcome was but i know it was reported as bad protocol?.
normally family would be kept informed of any change in health of a service user. I would think that you have a strong case for a complaint against this home and it appears that they will have gone against CSCI regulations. If your brother is unable to make his own decisions then they should give family the opportunity to be involved in that decsion making also they should inform social services who would assist in finding an advocate. If you need any further advice on this matter please contact us
I'm making a big assumption here... but is it a registered care home?
In which case, there should be a wealth of information available via the .
you may even be able to find the listing for the home of those you are concerned about.... and see thier plans and approach fully stated.
A member of the family has the right to at least be involved in the Care Plans, and Reviews of these.
As mentioned above also, the Mental Capacity Act could well prove a handy tool.
Good Luck.
lp
In which case, there should be a wealth of information available via the .
you may even be able to find the listing for the home of those you are concerned about.... and see thier plans and approach fully stated.
A member of the family has the right to at least be involved in the Care Plans, and Reviews of these.
As mentioned above also, the Mental Capacity Act could well prove a handy tool.
Good Luck.
lp
is it a care home with 24 hour care or sheltered housing with a warden who generally works 9-5pm?
Its my understanding that if wardens or carehomes have family's contact details and they do start to deteriate then they should keep them informed but I do know that in warden housing if they ask the resident and they say "dont contact my contacts" then they have to respect their wishes and not do it, im not sure of protocall in carehomes but would belive it to be the same procedure
I actually work in this sort of enviroment and can confirm that family and relatives do not have to be present when referals or assesments are done by social workers/ocupational health, also I know that not just anyone can refer people to social services.
I know of a case where a man clearly cant manage on his own and has neighbours ( elderly themselves) helping him light his fire and doing odd bits for him, a friend of his rung social services who wouldnt get involved unless he asked for help but it did eventually get flagged up at his doctors due to his health anyway the SS went out to assess him and he said he could manage and didnt want any help or carers even though his standard of living and health has deteriated very quickly and the people round him who know him best say he cant manage, but because he said no then they had to close the case to respect his choices
I know that things have changed since the tighning of data protection and human rights........not always for the best
Its my understanding that if wardens or carehomes have family's contact details and they do start to deteriate then they should keep them informed but I do know that in warden housing if they ask the resident and they say "dont contact my contacts" then they have to respect their wishes and not do it, im not sure of protocall in carehomes but would belive it to be the same procedure
I actually work in this sort of enviroment and can confirm that family and relatives do not have to be present when referals or assesments are done by social workers/ocupational health, also I know that not just anyone can refer people to social services.
I know of a case where a man clearly cant manage on his own and has neighbours ( elderly themselves) helping him light his fire and doing odd bits for him, a friend of his rung social services who wouldnt get involved unless he asked for help but it did eventually get flagged up at his doctors due to his health anyway the SS went out to assess him and he said he could manage and didnt want any help or carers even though his standard of living and health has deteriated very quickly and the people round him who know him best say he cant manage, but because he said no then they had to close the case to respect his choices
I know that things have changed since the tighning of data protection and human rights........not always for the best
Thank you all for the advice in the forum and to all those who sent me a pm Really useful information.....
We have found out why Mum doesnt get any cards etc now and we are a little gobsmacked to say the least! It does explain a few things though
:?
I shall answer your pm's later today but I and my sisters do thank you all sincerely..
Really useful information.....We have found out why Mum doesnt get any cards etc now and we are a little gobsmacked to say the least! It does explain a few things though
:? I shall answer your pm's later today but I and my sisters do thank you all sincerely..
there is a difference between having fun and abuse.
i work with disabled people many of which cant speak and are quite profoundly disabled-yet each has a character, their own personality and many enjoy that little bit of fun and banter.
they are not all angels, quite a few reguarly grope female members of staff, or have a stiffy on when the girls toilet and change them.
it only becomes abuse if we are aware that that person is not comfortable with this type of fun, and if that is the case it wouldnt be appropriate for it to happen.
of course, we male members of staff dont toilet or change female clients and it would be for us to engage in that type of banter with them.
so keep an open mind, watch the reaction of the people involved then determine if you and indeed them are uncomfortable, then maybe a word in the ear of the person involved or supervisor can resolve the problem without costing somone their job!
i work with disabled people many of which cant speak and are quite profoundly disabled-yet each has a character, their own personality and many enjoy that little bit of fun and banter.
they are not all angels, quite a few reguarly grope female members of staff, or have a stiffy on when the girls toilet and change them.
it only becomes abuse if we are aware that that person is not comfortable with this type of fun, and if that is the case it wouldnt be appropriate for it to happen.
of course, we male members of staff dont toilet or change female clients and it would be for us to engage in that type of banter with them.
so keep an open mind, watch the reaction of the people involved then determine if you and indeed them are uncomfortable, then maybe a word in the ear of the person involved or supervisor can resolve the problem without costing somone their job!
there is a difference between having fun and abuse.
i work with disabled people many of which cant speak and are quite profoundly disabled-yet each has a character, their own personality and many enjoy that little bit of fun and banter.
they are not all angels, quite a few reguarly grope female members of staff, or have a stiffy on when the girls toilet and change them.
it only becomes abuse if we are aware that that person is not comfortable with this type of fun, and if that is the case it wouldnt be appropriate for it to happen.
of course, we male members of staff dont toilet or change female clients and it would be for us to engage in that type of banter with them.
so keep an open mind, watch the reaction of the people involved then determine if you and indeed them are uncomfortable, then maybe a word in the ear of the person involved or supervisor can resolve the problem without costing somone their job!
i work with disabled people many of which cant speak and are quite profoundly disabled-yet each has a character, their own personality and many enjoy that little bit of fun and banter.
they are not all angels, quite a few reguarly grope female members of staff, or have a stiffy on when the girls toilet and change them.
it only becomes abuse if we are aware that that person is not comfortable with this type of fun, and if that is the case it wouldnt be appropriate for it to happen.
of course, we male members of staff dont toilet or change female clients and it would be for us to engage in that type of banter with them.
so keep an open mind, watch the reaction of the people involved then determine if you and indeed them are uncomfortable, then maybe a word in the ear of the person involved or supervisor can resolve the problem without costing somone their job!
I agree with what steve j said about a difference between having fun and abuse, sitting on a guys lap and wiggling her bum would not be seen as outrageous in an office environment, and I know that she is the guys carer as he has spina bifida, but its better than the guy feeling that nobody would want physical contact with him because of this maybe?
I dunno I'm just surmising an hoping to give a differing viewpoint without offending anyone, as I know when family are involved it is a very serious matter.
As for family involvement in decision making Anais, I would hazard a guess that the next of kin ALWAYS have a right to make decisions, unless "loco parentis" has been signed? Even in this instance I would think the carers/facility would be compassionate enough to take the families concerns and opinions regarding their son/brother or whoever into consideration. They may have a duty of care to the individual but it is a much broader scope than that when they are caring for a person who's family have issues with that persons welfare.
Maybe ask for a meeting with the centre manager rather than a phone call and if it's not forthcoming go down and demand to be seen. Family comes first.
Good luck and I hope all turns out well!!x
I dunno I'm just surmising an hoping to give a differing viewpoint without offending anyone, as I know when family are involved it is a very serious matter.
As for family involvement in decision making Anais, I would hazard a guess that the next of kin ALWAYS have a right to make decisions, unless "loco parentis" has been signed? Even in this instance I would think the carers/facility would be compassionate enough to take the families concerns and opinions regarding their son/brother or whoever into consideration. They may have a duty of care to the individual but it is a much broader scope than that when they are caring for a person who's family have issues with that persons welfare.
Maybe ask for a meeting with the centre manager rather than a phone call and if it's not forthcoming go down and demand to be seen. Family comes first.
Good luck and I hope all turns out well!!x
