At this time of year and it dosn't matter if your a Christian or not, many people struggle to live because of the cold and wet weather. None are as visible as the homeless and none perhaps have so much trouble helping themslves. They can't get benefits because they haven't got an address and they can't get a home because they have no benefits or money. They cant get a job because they have no money!!!
I watched one of these people in our town centre yesterday. He was being ignored by most of those out spending money on often useless and little needed Christmas presents as he tried in vain to sell copies of the Big Issue
So all I wanted to say is when you go shoping today how about buying a copy? The Chrismas edition is only two pounds and its hlelping someone take control of their life.
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Sex God
Hmmm yes. Yesterday I walk passed my favourite Big Issue seller - I was in a hurry - usually I say 'hello - not today thanks' when I don't buy, but I didn't even manage that. Thanks for the reminder.
Can I also bring to people's attention a great little site called where you can give presents (not just at Christmas) to friends and relatives, which are charitable donations for specific purposes - Orphan's Dowry or bikes for midwives in the Sudan. It really is good and easy.
Sorry to Foxy if this constitutes a hi-jack - if you think it does PM me and I'll move it to its own thread. I'm going to get a Mod to check this - I don't think I've contravened the mentioning other sites rule but...
Can I also bring to people's attention a great little site called where you can give presents (not just at Christmas) to friends and relatives, which are charitable donations for specific purposes - Orphan's Dowry or bikes for midwives in the Sudan. It really is good and easy.
Sorry to Foxy if this constitutes a hi-jack - if you think it does PM me and I'll move it to its own thread. I'm going to get a Mod to check this - I don't think I've contravened the mentioning other sites rule but...
I don't see any problem with it TE.
The only thing I would add is, please make sure you buy your copies of the Big Issue from a licensed vendor. Unlicensed vendors are causing a lot of problems for those genuinely trying to help themselves.
They have blue jackets in some areas, but should always have a badge.
Jas
XXX
The only thing I would add is, please make sure you buy your copies of the Big Issue from a licensed vendor. Unlicensed vendors are causing a lot of problems for those genuinely trying to help themselves.
They have blue jackets in some areas, but should always have a badge.
Jas
XXX
I always used to buy the Big Issue when I lived in Manchester. Coming form a titchy seaside town I'd never even heard of it :shock:
Where I live now, we have one regular BI seller who stands outside Asda. He is seeing the heroin addict that lives at the back of me and a few weeks ago, I caught him attempting to use my back garden as short cut to theirs, carrying what looked suspicioulsy like other people's stuff.
He and his associates are frequently moved on by the police, followed around the shops by the staff and given a WIDE berth by the general public.
Not all homeless people are smackheads and not all smackheads are homeless but until someone can show me how I tell the difference, then I will noty be buying the BI.
I am truly disgusted that we have homeless people in this country but empty houses everywhere; that every winter elderly people die in their homes because they cannot afford to use their heating yet the local council have the Christmas lights on in the street all day and night; that we have more and more people below the poverty line yet we open our country to every Tom, Dick and Harry to take advantage of our Welfare State.
I don't give to charity but I give blood. It costs nothing and saves lives.
Where I live now, we have one regular BI seller who stands outside Asda. He is seeing the heroin addict that lives at the back of me and a few weeks ago, I caught him attempting to use my back garden as short cut to theirs, carrying what looked suspicioulsy like other people's stuff.
He and his associates are frequently moved on by the police, followed around the shops by the staff and given a WIDE berth by the general public.
Not all homeless people are smackheads and not all smackheads are homeless but until someone can show me how I tell the difference, then I will noty be buying the BI.
I am truly disgusted that we have homeless people in this country but empty houses everywhere; that every winter elderly people die in their homes because they cannot afford to use their heating yet the local council have the Christmas lights on in the street all day and night; that we have more and more people below the poverty line yet we open our country to every Tom, Dick and Harry to take advantage of our Welfare State.
I don't give to charity but I give blood. It costs nothing and saves lives.
Sex God
Not all BI sellers have to be homeless to sell it either 
Last year when our son, then aged 18, was out of work for a while, he went to ther local Job Centre and was asked if he would like to seel the BI over the Xmas period :shock:
He was neither homeless, nor a smackhead, dosser etc. Just a regular lad who happened to find himself out of work for a month or two :?
He was told it would cost him £15 from his first Grio to set up his seller's account and the profit he made would be his. Needless to say, he didn't take them up on their offer
We have sellers local to us, but out of three of them, I know one of them does have a room in a hostel in Bournemouth, so not entirely a homeless guy so I never buy from him :?
Tracy-Jayne
Last year when our son, then aged 18, was out of work for a while, he went to ther local Job Centre and was asked if he would like to seel the BI over the Xmas period :shock:
He was neither homeless, nor a smackhead, dosser etc. Just a regular lad who happened to find himself out of work for a month or two :?
He was told it would cost him £15 from his first Grio to set up his seller's account and the profit he made would be his. Needless to say, he didn't take them up on their offer
We have sellers local to us, but out of three of them, I know one of them does have a room in a hostel in Bournemouth, so not entirely a homeless guy so I never buy from him :?
Tracy-Jayne
Quote by dazandlou
I often buy the BI but i tend to throw it in the bin without reading it, !!
Actually I quite enjoy reading it. There are some good articles in it sometimes. My problem is that I end up with about five copies of the same one. I have a particular person that I always buy from - but I hate walking past the others. Sometimes i will say "sorry mate - already read it", but most of the time I buy another one. After all - it IS cheaper than a pint.
this is a subject which is very emotional. i will always give to charity and to the homeless. but i dont like the ppl that make you feel guilty when you dont.
one a few occasions i have lost my temper. ( fair enough looking back i shouldnt).
i was sitting in my local Mcdonalds and 2 Asluym seekers cam upto me and handed me a note "help we need money" sort of thing. i just lost it and shouted "Fuck off i'm eating" at the top of my voice.
i look back and see that maybge i was wrong. but i dont like being forced in to giveing to charity.
JGL
one a few occasions i have lost my temper. ( fair enough looking back i shouldnt).
i was sitting in my local Mcdonalds and 2 Asluym seekers cam upto me and handed me a note "help we need money" sort of thing. i just lost it and shouted "Fuck off i'm eating" at the top of my voice.
i look back and see that maybge i was wrong. but i dont like being forced in to giveing to charity.
JGL
Yes - I think that would've pissed me off a tad. But then I think - with the actual amount he/she is getting from the mag - surely you wouldn't actually choose to stand there all day trying to flog it? Would you?
I notice you also seemed to feel that you had to justify your charity giving status. I find myself doing that a lot these days. I have certain charities that I support - and I think that I give quite generously to those. I shan't list them all - bu they do all have a personal link for me. I can't afford to give more than i do - but I do find that I feel guilty about that sometimes when I am approached to give to yet another charity.
I notice you also seemed to feel that you had to justify your charity giving status. I find myself doing that a lot these days. I have certain charities that I support - and I think that I give quite generously to those. I shan't list them all - bu they do all have a personal link for me. I can't afford to give more than i do - but I do find that I feel guilty about that sometimes when I am approached to give to yet another charity.
This for me is a touchy issue. In the past I always used to buy the Big Issue from a certain guy opposite where my sister used to work. Also I would give him a little extra. He would sit on the floor virtually every single day with a dog. The police didnt mind at first (he was also known to beg), but then they started moving him from his spot and this was every day. My sister asked one of the officers why one day and he responded that he was using the money to buy hard drugs.
I don't agree with drugs, so ever since then I stopped buying the big issue or giving to street beggers.
When I moved away from my home town to where I am know the Big Issue is also being sold here but by asylum seekers. Now I will probably be condemed for this but I simply refuse to buy it from them. We have enough trouble with our own poverty issues in the UK.
I give to charity monthly, NSPCC, RSPCA, Breast Cancer Research, Canine Defense League and a local hospice. Worthy charities as far as Im concerned.
I don't agree with drugs, so ever since then I stopped buying the big issue or giving to street beggers.
When I moved away from my home town to where I am know the Big Issue is also being sold here but by asylum seekers. Now I will probably be condemed for this but I simply refuse to buy it from them. We have enough trouble with our own poverty issues in the UK.
I give to charity monthly, NSPCC, RSPCA, Breast Cancer Research, Canine Defense League and a local hospice. Worthy charities as far as Im concerned.
Pink bubble, i understand what you are saying about the venour who was alegedly using his takings for hard drugs, ( remember you only have one policemans word for it and they have been known to be wron) But he is working and doing something to help himself. If he didnt get big issue money from that source maybe he would go on to house robery etc? Dont know that its right but personaly if he has an addiction id rather he worked for it rather than stole
Sex God
hhhmmmmmm . . .
yep, it's a fact, that a tiny minority of BI vendors are simply milking the public fraudulently. 5 or so years ago, a vendor in leeds could quite easily make 80 quid a day, if he was committed enough to do 12 hours out on the streets in all weathers. these days, a few hundred vendors fight over a few dozen pitches, and hope to make 20-30 quid if they are lucky. just enough to get fed and pay for a bed for the night. some cities are restricting vendor sites, and making it very hard for new vendors to get a pitch. there's talk in leeds of banning them together for aggressive begging. the few damage the many.
it's also a fact that most vendors aren't homeless, in the sense that they actually sleep in shop doorways every night. maybe they have a room in a hostel, or a b&b that exploits them and makes 100-200 quid a week claims from the DSS for a shared fleapit with 2 or 3 beds in a single room, or maybe one is lucky enough to have a bedsit on benefit, and shares with half a dozen others every night.
and yep, in leeds at least, i'd say 90% are heroin addicts. whether they are addicts cos they are homeless, or homeless cos they are addicts, is redundant. they are homeless addicts, simple as. they stand out all day selling the issue, get fed at night at the crypt under a local church, then drag themselves round to score before dossing down for the night.
i personally would rather see them earn it through the BI, as opposed to robbing little old ladies and burgling houses to get a daily fix. it is impossible for most to imagine that kind of life, but all too easy to label them as beneath consideration and walk on by.
the money that goes to the BI offices, rather than the vendor, pays for partnerships with local colleges, designed to offer them help, support and training, to lift themselves out of that particular hole, and for that reason alone, it's worth supporting.
neil x x x ;)
yep, it's a fact, that a tiny minority of BI vendors are simply milking the public fraudulently. 5 or so years ago, a vendor in leeds could quite easily make 80 quid a day, if he was committed enough to do 12 hours out on the streets in all weathers. these days, a few hundred vendors fight over a few dozen pitches, and hope to make 20-30 quid if they are lucky. just enough to get fed and pay for a bed for the night. some cities are restricting vendor sites, and making it very hard for new vendors to get a pitch. there's talk in leeds of banning them together for aggressive begging. the few damage the many.
it's also a fact that most vendors aren't homeless, in the sense that they actually sleep in shop doorways every night. maybe they have a room in a hostel, or a b&b that exploits them and makes 100-200 quid a week claims from the DSS for a shared fleapit with 2 or 3 beds in a single room, or maybe one is lucky enough to have a bedsit on benefit, and shares with half a dozen others every night.
and yep, in leeds at least, i'd say 90% are heroin addicts. whether they are addicts cos they are homeless, or homeless cos they are addicts, is redundant. they are homeless addicts, simple as. they stand out all day selling the issue, get fed at night at the crypt under a local church, then drag themselves round to score before dossing down for the night.
i personally would rather see them earn it through the BI, as opposed to robbing little old ladies and burgling houses to get a daily fix. it is impossible for most to imagine that kind of life, but all too easy to label them as beneath consideration and walk on by.
the money that goes to the BI offices, rather than the vendor, pays for partnerships with local colleges, designed to offer them help, support and training, to lift themselves out of that particular hole, and for that reason alone, it's worth supporting.
neil x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
i personally would rather see them earn it through the BI, as opposed to robbing little old ladies and burgling houses to get a daily fix.
Good point Neil. But I have little sympathy with drug addicts because of the way they make others suffer to get money to fund their habit, I would prefer it if my charitable donation wasn't going into the hands of a heroin dealer. Genuinely homeless people would gratefully receive a handout of food or a drink.
<sorry for editing twice but it didn't make sense the way I wrote it earlier lol!>
I hate the guilty feeling I get when I walk past a charity collector of any kind but as others have said, I do support charities, but of my own choosing. I also sometimes wonder who these people are really collecting for, I have been stopped by people collecting for 'disabled children' for instance but when I have asked them about the child/children/disability they know little or nothing about it. I have a disabled child and through her I know a lot of other disabled children and none of them as far as I know have benefitted from any of these collections. It's very easy to get cynical unfortunately.
Mod
In Manchester city centre and possibly others, they often have fixed collection boxes and ask that, should you wish to donate to help the homeless, you put the money in there. That way it directly assists them and cannot be used for any other purpose.
Mal
Mal
BI sellers have a bad press - and I can't say whether or not it is deserved, because eveything I know about them is from the press. So I have never bought a BI.
However, on a similar line. I used to be poor - and never gave to charity collectors and justified it by thinking that my kids needed it more.
Now, I'm not poor, and I cannot walk passed a charity collector without donating - and thanking them for giving them something more precious that I money - their time.
When I go to Tesco and they catch me on the way in - I even keep some change back so that they can catch me on the way out as well! :doh: How daft is that!
lhk
So I have never bought a BI.However, on a similar line. I used to be poor - and never gave to charity collectors and justified it by thinking that my kids needed it more.
Now, I'm not poor, and I cannot walk passed a charity collector without donating - and thanking them for giving them something more precious that I money - their time.
When I go to Tesco and they catch me on the way in - I even keep some change back so that they can catch me on the way out as well! :doh: How daft is that!
lhk
This is a really good subject..and after reading the posts I have found myself torn between two sides of the coint... Half of me feels that I am lucky and have done alright for myself (to a point anyway) and should support those people who are less fortunate....The other half of me thinks they are taking the piss.... Why should I go to work...do a job I cant stand to earn my money, pay my taxes, live within the boudries of the law.... only to support someone else who is too damn bone idle to get off their sorry arse and sort them selves out?
I know that statement is going to offend someone and I am sorry and apologise now to those people who are genuinly having trouble or in a situation they cannot change....
But honestly if beggers, and lets face it, that is all they are... did something useful for society it would be a different matter...
If a bloke was to stop me at the side of the road and say he was hard up but had picked up the rubbish or swept the wet leaves away in my street in return for a helping hand... I would be more than willing to give, but you never see that do you? No one ever actually gives anything useful in return for their begged money.... ..except buskers....they put some effort into it and a good song can cheer you up no end
It's like the sad wankers who claim unemployment benefit... month after month when they are able bodied and capable of doing a job... Do they help manage parklands...no, do they clean streets...no, do they help elderly people maintain their houses...no....do they do anything at all except sponge of other people who have a little self respect and willingness to improve themselves.....no...
For a lot of these people it is a matter of choice.....They choose not to get their lazy arses out of bed in the morning..hence cant hold down a job, they choose not to live in hostels or support homes (I admit I have no real knowledge of what is on offer) because it means they will have to abide by a few common sense rules like..wash.. dont take drugs, dont fight or get so pissed you cant move..get a job dont steal etc...
They choose to sponge of society because it is easier than taking responsibility for yourself and others around you..
I left home at 18, moved to a city 150 miles from my parents (because i bluddy well chose to get out of there) and had nothing but 2 changes of clothes and about £100... I was lucky and had a place to stay for a few days...but that was it... I had to find a job, I had to pay my rent as quickly as i could...I had to work bluddy hard to get here I am today...and if i can do it...so can they....!
I know that statement is going to offend someone and I am sorry and apologise now to those people who are genuinly having trouble or in a situation they cannot change....
But honestly if beggers, and lets face it, that is all they are... did something useful for society it would be a different matter...
If a bloke was to stop me at the side of the road and say he was hard up but had picked up the rubbish or swept the wet leaves away in my street in return for a helping hand... I would be more than willing to give, but you never see that do you? No one ever actually gives anything useful in return for their begged money.... ..except buskers....they put some effort into it and a good song can cheer you up no end
It's like the sad wankers who claim unemployment benefit... month after month when they are able bodied and capable of doing a job... Do they help manage parklands...no, do they clean streets...no, do they help elderly people maintain their houses...no....do they do anything at all except sponge of other people who have a little self respect and willingness to improve themselves.....no...
For a lot of these people it is a matter of choice.....They choose not to get their lazy arses out of bed in the morning..hence cant hold down a job, they choose not to live in hostels or support homes (I admit I have no real knowledge of what is on offer) because it means they will have to abide by a few common sense rules like..wash.. dont take drugs, dont fight or get so pissed you cant move..get a job dont steal etc...
They choose to sponge of society because it is easier than taking responsibility for yourself and others around you..
I left home at 18, moved to a city 150 miles from my parents (because i bluddy well chose to get out of there) and had nothing but 2 changes of clothes and about £100... I was lucky and had a place to stay for a few days...but that was it... I had to find a job, I had to pay my rent as quickly as i could...I had to work bluddy hard to get here I am today...and if i can do it...so can they....!
Sex God
Quote by MQ
i personally would rather see them earn it through the BI, as opposed to robbing little old ladies and burgling houses to get a daily fix.
Good point Neil. But I have little sympathy with drug addicts because of the way they make others suffer to get money to fund their habit, I would prefer it if my charitable donation wasn't going into the hands of a heroin dealer. Genuinely homeless people would gratefully receive a handout of food or a drink..
i don't disagree with you at all. been burgled 4 times myself. i lost a flat cos it was trashed by burglars funding their addiction, and ended up temporaily homeless myself. i have a touch of sympathy for the addicts, but despise the dealers who prey on them, and wouldn't wish to finance those kind of people.
but since they are addicts, and will do what they need to in order to maintain that addiction, anything that provides a constructive way out of that in the meanwhile, is pretty useful. it may mean you're supporting an addiction today true, but if in the end it also pays for support to the the addict, and offer ways out tomorrow, realistically i'd be happy with that, knowing someone else hasn't become a victim of a crime committed in desperation for the sake of buying a big issue.
n x x x ;)
Sex God
Whenever I see a homeless person I used to either donate or buy them a brew or a butty.. untill I ended up homeless myself.. It took a couple of weeks but I had no problem finding somewhere to live.. there are lots of places you can go to for help if you truly want it. And it is so hard these days differentiating (sp?) between those who are genuinly in need of help and those who are just sponging.. The ones with the dogs always piss me off.. why have a dog when you can't afford to feed yourself?!?
Quote by xxdevil69
Whenever I see a homeless person I used to either donate or buy them a brew or a butty.. untill I ended up homeless myself.. It took a couple of weeks but I had no problem finding somewhere to live.. there are lots of places you can go to for help if you truly want it. And it is so hard these days differentiating (sp?) between those who are genuinly in need of help and those who are just sponging.. The ones with the dogs always piss me off.. why have a dog when you can't afford to feed yourself?!?
they could always open a dog training school...seriously...they are always so well behaved...it is a talent!
Quote by luv2lick
For a lot of these people it is a matter of choice.....They choose not to get their lazy arses out of bed in the morning..hence cant hold down a job, they choose not to live in hostels or support homes (I admit I have no real knowledge of what is on offer) because it means they will have to abide by a few common sense rules like..wash.. dont take drugs, dont fight or get so pissed you cant move..get a job dont steal etc...
They choose to sponge of society because it is easier than taking responsibility for yourself and others around you..
I left home at 18, moved to a city 150 miles from my parents (because i bluddy well chose to get out of there) and had nothing but 2 changes of clothes and about £100... I was lucky and had a place to stay for a few days...but that was it... I had to find a job, I had to pay my rent as quickly as i could...I had to work bluddy hard to get here I am today...and if i can do it...so can they....!
For a lot of people it is not a matter of choice.
I was homeless for the best part of ten years. It most certainly was not a lifestyle choice.
For only a relatively short period of that time was I actually street homeless i.e. living in doorways in Charing Cross in sub-zero temperatures.
Most of the time was spent squatting in derelict buildings, no water, no heat, no light, no furniture, etc etc
And there is the other sort of homelessness that I have experienced but which doesn't grab the headlines............sharing dormitories in overcrowded hostels run by exploitative landlords as so accurately described above by Neilinleeds. If Dickens were about today, etc.
People find themselves homeless for all manner of reasons...........abusive families, relationship breakdown, armed forces cutbacks, alcoholism, addiction, physical and mental problems, etc.
Similarly, homeless people come from diverse backgrounds.
I loathe the uninformed generalisations that are applied to the homeless.
I detest the lazy stereotyping of homeless people.
I equally abhor simplistic analysis and proposed solutions.
Try getting a job when you have no fixed abode.
Try holding on to documents that might help you get a job when you have nowhere safe to keep them.
Try keeping your body clean or your clothes laundered when you are living in a doorway.
Try to exude confidence and self-esteem in a job application or at an interview when you know you've just come from an abandoned, filthy, rat-infested building.
Before people propose their facile remedies they might like to find out what it really is like to live in grinding poverty without a roof over thier head. And I don't mean these publicity stunts that are favoured by MPs where they spend a week in a hostel. They still have well-shod feet and fine threads on their backs. They don't carry out their little social experiments long enough for holes to appear in their shoes. And they have the knowledge that their adventure will only last for seven days. I doubt if they'd be so bouyant if they had to endure those conditions day after day, month after month with no end in sight. That is spirit-crushing. Try "a few common sense rules...washing " when you are subsisting at that that level of despair, Mr I-had-to-work-bluddy-hard-to-get-where-I am-today.
There is no doubt that many BI sellers have substance misuse problems.
Just as many do not. So what. There are many actors and musicians who openly flaunt their drug-using. Am I to boycott their films and records ? But for the libel laws I would name several major retail brands that are headed by people with cocaine problems. Am I to eschew these products also?
I did not get out of my longterm homelessness predicament because I "took reponsibility for myself" or "obeyed a few commonsense rules."
I was fortunate enough to get help at a time and in circumstances where I was able to accept it. The context was important. Without going into detail, there were many times when I would not have been able to accept help even it was there. Alas, for many people the help is never available.
I am most grateful for the help I got.
It was a modest start and the timing was crucial.
I was offered a place at a half-way house from the street to what would eventually become a bedsit tenancy. Neither the half-way nor the bedsit could be described as palaces. From this base I got a place in college. And I decided to give back to society by being of use to those who were still living in circumstances like those I had recently left. That was seventeen years ago. I customised my degree to equip myself for working with the homeless and the addicted. And I'm bloody good at my job. Not so much because of my academic qualifications (though they are excellent too) but because of my experience.
Another way that i try to serve people who find themselves in situations similar to thos e that I came from is by challenging the ignorance and prejudice that many people show when discussing this issue. That's why I've taken more time in my contribution to this thread than I possibly have done for any other SH topic to date.
There is not a day goes by that I do not recall exactly where I came from.
And feel grateful for what I've got today. I am not a rich man in material trerms. I've got a modest little home now, a few possessions, nice wheels, etc. And that's about it materially. No big deal. What matters far more is the dignity that I've now got that was a million miles away and seemingly unattainable while I was homeless. That is priceless.
And I fight hard to maintain that self-respect. It's a precious and fragile commodidity for someone with my experience. There were plenty of people who tried to erode it a score or more years ago with their judgemental attitudes.
I have no more time for these people now than I had then.
I would rather spend time chatting with a BI vendor than hobnobbing with the "get a job and and get your together" crew.
And I do.
Don't be so hasty to judge people until you have walked at least a mile in their shoes.
End of rant
:D :D Sex God
oh hell why do i do these threads
dog ownership? yep, i don't deny it helps people beg at all. easier all too often to get sympathy for the dog where the owner gets none. but . . a dog = companionship in a lonely world. loyalty. a sense of responsibility for something dependent solely on you. a friend to the friendless etc etc i'm not saying they get dogs with the best will in the world to begin with, and when people take the dog a tin of food, they tend to take something for the owner too, but they can end up being pretty valuable to someone who has nothing.
xxdevil69, yep didn't take me long to find somewhere to live either, but then i had options. i had friends willing to put me up, and either i had finances available for a private rental, or i had housing associations and councils open to me. your average BI vendor, specially one with a drug conviction / anti-social criminal record, is gonna find those doors slammed in his face pretty sharpish, leaving the aforesaid hostels, b&b's and dodgy landlords. the options open to us can narrow down to nothing pretty quickly for them, and once in that hole, it's very hard to get out.
homelessness is an earner for some, who are just as unscrupulous as the dealers, in making money on the back of addiction, misery and extreme poverty. it's pretty sick that charities should even be needed to tackle it, cos there's simple solutions. not all will take the help offered, but in most cases that help simply does not exist in the first place.
we tend to rely on criminal justice solutions to nick them first. we even have legislation now to tackle aggressive begging that sees people criminalised. we then put them in a bail hostel, and impose a shedload of sanctions on them for failing, with no real help or incentives to succeed. and when they fail they end up in jail and come out with even less support, and even less options. it wouldn't be so difficult to tackle this before it gets to that point, but there simply isn't the will. it takes a bloke to set up the Big Issue and forge solutions to social problems that create it.
neil x x x ;)
dog ownership? yep, i don't deny it helps people beg at all. easier all too often to get sympathy for the dog where the owner gets none. but . . a dog = companionship in a lonely world. loyalty. a sense of responsibility for something dependent solely on you. a friend to the friendless etc etc i'm not saying they get dogs with the best will in the world to begin with, and when people take the dog a tin of food, they tend to take something for the owner too, but they can end up being pretty valuable to someone who has nothing.
xxdevil69, yep didn't take me long to find somewhere to live either, but then i had options. i had friends willing to put me up, and either i had finances available for a private rental, or i had housing associations and councils open to me. your average BI vendor, specially one with a drug conviction / anti-social criminal record, is gonna find those doors slammed in his face pretty sharpish, leaving the aforesaid hostels, b&b's and dodgy landlords. the options open to us can narrow down to nothing pretty quickly for them, and once in that hole, it's very hard to get out.
homelessness is an earner for some, who are just as unscrupulous as the dealers, in making money on the back of addiction, misery and extreme poverty. it's pretty sick that charities should even be needed to tackle it, cos there's simple solutions. not all will take the help offered, but in most cases that help simply does not exist in the first place.
we tend to rely on criminal justice solutions to nick them first. we even have legislation now to tackle aggressive begging that sees people criminalised. we then put them in a bail hostel, and impose a shedload of sanctions on them for failing, with no real help or incentives to succeed. and when they fail they end up in jail and come out with even less support, and even less options. it wouldn't be so difficult to tackle this before it gets to that point, but there simply isn't the will. it takes a bloke to set up the Big Issue and forge solutions to social problems that create it.
neil x x x ;)
Sex God
riff raff! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
only just seen it, and would have saved me a lot of typing! ;) nowt to add to that eh? ;)
neil x x x ;)
only just seen it, and would have saved me a lot of typing! ;) nowt to add to that eh? ;)
neil x x x ;)
I'd just like to say one thing - my first gf had spent some time on the streets and although she had pulled herself together and gotten out to there I have never forgotten what she said about drug and alcohol abuse by people living rough = "it's so bloody tuff - sometimes the only way to escape is to take drugs or get of your head. That way you don't feel the cold or the abuse thrown at you". She didn't CHOOSE to be on the streets. She was there as the only way she could see to get away from an abusive homelife. Try and put yourself in their shoes sometimes.
Quote by luv2lick
I know that statement is going to offend someone and I am sorry and apologise now to those people who are genuinly having trouble or in a situation they cannot change....
But honestly if beggers, and lets face it, that is all they are... did something useful for society it would be a different matter...
If a bloke was to stop me at the side of the road and say he was hard up but had picked up the rubbish or swept the wet leaves away in my street in return for a helping hand... I would be more than willing to give, but you never see that do you? No one ever actually gives anything useful in return for their begged money.... ..except buskers....they put some effort into it and a good song can cheer you up no end
It's like the sad wankers who claim unemployment benefit... month after month when they are able bodied and capable of doing a job... Do they help manage parklands...no, do they clean streets...no, do they help elderly people maintain their houses...no....do they do anything at all except sponge of other people who have a little self respect and willingness to improve themselves.....no...
..!
That is the whole point of the BI, the vendors are getting off the asses and do something . The arnt expecting money ofr nothg and are selling something interesting.I agree with the sentiment that sitting on your ass begging and offering nothing in return is wrong, be it in a shop doorway or at home in frot of the telly waitng for the next goverment sponsored handout.
Anyone can be unfortunately enough to loose their job and need help for a few months but some people make a career of it, not just them but for their whole families.
Addiction is , i think , one of those things you never understand till youve been there, but let us not fortget there are plenty of people addicted to legalised substances eg cigs and alcohol. The reason you dont see them hanging round street corners is that the sales of their prefered substances are regulated and they dont need to skunk around in the dark.
Its pretty acceptabe to most that after a hard day at the office you go home and relax with a glass of wine. Now imagine what it must be like after a hard day on the streets int th pouring rain and not having a home to go to, just a basic hostel with no privacy and little comforts. No i m not deffending the use of hard drugs, just rationalising it.
Outside my local Asda there is a young lady who sells the big issue and the reason I started buying it from her was bcause I was out getting stuff for our new house ages ago and I was really struggling to carry everything. Anyway, it was all about to fall from my arms and she dropped everything and came running over to help me, walked me to the car with all the stuff.
I thought that was pretty nice cause no one usually gives a damn if your struggling or not!!
I thought that was pretty nice cause no one usually gives a damn if your struggling or not!!
I can totally relate to the vicious circle thing about homeless people not being able to get money/a job/ a home. I was homeless for a time after leaving home and the only way I could get the grottiest bedsit was to find £50 for the bond. There were no council flats or anything that I could get and the local housing aid trust could only offer the bedsit. I slept on peoples floors and even screwed guys just to get a room for the night, I counted myself lucky not to have had to sleep outdoors. I managed to borrow the £50 from a friend but he wanted it back the very next week. I got a job but was sacked within a week because I faked my DOB to get in, I was 17 and should have been 18 for the job. WIth the few quid I got I had to pay back my debt and was left with nothing until I could get a place on a training scheme, by which time I owed over £100 in rent arrears.
So it doesn't surprise me in the least when I hear of how damn hard it is for homeless people, I can understand the lengths they go to to get money for certain but I never drank or did drugs because every last penny went in the cheapest shop in town getting a minimal amount of food to keep me going. That came later when I had some money and discovered raves lol!
So it doesn't surprise me in the least when I hear of how damn hard it is for homeless people, I can understand the lengths they go to to get money for certain but I never drank or did drugs because every last penny went in the cheapest shop in town getting a minimal amount of food to keep me going. That came later when I had some money and discovered raves lol!
Quote by Riff Raff
For a lot of these people it is a matter of choice.....They choose not to get their lazy arses out of bed in the morning..hence cant hold down a job, they choose not to live in hostels or support homes (I admit I have no real knowledge of what is on offer) because it means they will have to abide by a few common sense rules like..wash.. dont take drugs, dont fight or get so pissed you cant move..get a job dont steal etc...
They choose to sponge of society because it is easier than taking responsibility for yourself and others around you..
I left home at 18, moved to a city 150 miles from my parents (because i bluddy well chose to get out of there) and had nothing but 2 changes of clothes and about £100... I was lucky and had a place to stay for a few days...but that was it... I had to find a job, I had to pay my rent as quickly as i could...I had to work bluddy hard to get here I am today...and if i can do it...so can they....!
For a lot of people it is not a matter of choice.
I was homeless for the best part of ten years. It most certainly was not a lifestyle choice.
For only a relatively short period of that time was I actually street homeless i.e. living in doorways in Charing Cross in sub-zero temperatures.
Most of the time was spent squatting in derelict buildings, no water, no heat, no light, no furniture, etc etc
And there is the other sort of homelessness that I have experienced but which doesn't grab the headlines............sharing dormitories in overcrowded hostels run by exploitative landlords as so accurately described above by Neilinleeds. If Dickens were about today, etc.
People find themselves homeless for all manner of reasons...........abusive families, relationship breakdown, armed forces cutbacks, alcoholism, addiction, physical and mental problems, etc.
Similarly, homeless people come from diverse backgrounds.
I loathe the uninformed generalisations that are applied to the homeless.
I detest the lazy stereotyping of homeless people.
I equally abhor simplistic analysis and proposed solutions.
Try getting a job when you have no fixed abode.
Try holding on to documents that might help you get a job when you have nowhere safe to keep them.
Try keeping your body clean or your clothes laundered when you are living in a doorway.
Try to exude confidence and self-esteem in a job application or at an interview when you know you've just come from an abandoned, filthy, rat-infested building.
Before people propose their facile remedies they might like to find out what it really is like to live in grinding poverty without a roof over thier head. And I don't mean these publicity stunts that are favoured by MPs where they spend a week in a hostel. They still have well-shod feet and fine threads on their backs. They don't carry out their little social experiments long enough for holes to appear in their shoes. And they have the knowledge that their adventure will only last for seven days. I doubt if they'd be so bouyant if they had to endure those conditions day after day, month after month with no end in sight. That is spirit-crushing. Try "a few common sense rules...washing " when you are subsisting at that that level of despair, Mr I-had-to-work-bluddy-hard-to-get-where-I am-today.
There is no doubt that many BI sellers have substance misuse problems.
Just as many do not. So what. There are many actors and musicians who openly flaunt their drug-using. Am I to boycott their films and records ? But for the libel laws I would name several major retail brands that are headed by people with cocaine problems. Am I to eschew these products also?
I did not get out of my longterm homelessness predicament because I "took reponsibility for myself" or "obeyed a few commonsense rules."
I was fortunate enough to get help at a time and in circumstances where I was able to accept it. The context was important. Without going into detail, there were many times when I would not have been able to accept help even it was there. Alas, for many people the help is never available.
I am most grateful for the help I got.
It was a modest start and the timing was crucial.
I was offered a place at a half-way house from the street to what would eventually become a bedsit tenancy. Neither the half-way nor the bedsit could be described as palaces. From this base I got a place in college. And I decided to give back to society by being of use to those who were still living in circumstances like those I had recently left. That was seventeen years ago. I customised my degree to equip myself for working with the homeless and the addicted. And I'm bloody good at my job. Not so much because of my academic qualifications (though they are excellent too) but because of my experience.
Another way that i try to serve people who find themselves in situations similar to thos e that I came from is by challenging the ignorance and prejudice that many people show when discussing this issue. That's why I've taken more time in my contribution to this thread than I possibly have done for any other SH topic to date.
There is not a day goes by that I do not recall exactly where I came from.
And feel grateful for what I've got today. I am not a rich man in material trerms. I've got a modest little home now, a few possessions, nice wheels, etc. And that's about it materially. No big deal. What matters far more is the dignity that I've now got that was a million miles away and seemingly unattainable while I was homeless. That is priceless.
And I fight hard to maintain that self-respect. It's a precious and fragile commodidity for someone with my experience. There were plenty of people who tried to erode it a score or more years ago with their judgemental attitudes.
I have no more time for these people now than I had then.
I would rather spend time chatting with a BI vendor than hobnobbing with the "get a job and and get your together" crew.
And I do.
Don't be so hasty to judge people until you have walked at least a mile in their shoes.
End of rant
:D :DRiff Raff - Rant noted and listened to...As I said..I am of split opinion on this subject...I understand there are a lot of people in very difficult situations and they do not have or have not yet been offered a choice...They will always get my sympathy and support. But you made my point very well..you were offered help and you chose to do something with it to better yourself. It sounds like you worked Bluddy hard to get to where you are today too...and you have my greatest respect...hence I am not just telling you to feck off for having a personal pop at me.
I dont think my analysis of the situation was too far off the mark...essentially the people you refer to have problems...and there are people out there like your good self who are there and trained to help them (I assume that there are probably not enough of you though) but they have to CHOOSE to take that help and start somewhere..
I dont feel ashamed of not having to literally climb out of the gutter (through luck more than judgement) to get to where I am today..not that it is a particularly grand place, but i do not like to be made to feel guilty about it by the other section of the people discussed in this thread and by that I do mean the sorry arsed wast of space spongers who take up valuable time and money given by people (which does actually include myself) to try and help the genuine needy.
I have taken on board your description of homelessness and will try to do more to help...but I stand by my comments in my original post as I believe them to be correct
Regards
Mr I-had -to-work-bluddy-hard-to get-to where-i-am-today
Sex God
for what its worth i think the big issue is an excellent read most of the time, dont always agree with the tone of it but it does open your eyes, on the whole the sellers are a decent bunch, only the other day i bought one and was explaining to the wild rose what it was all about, now what we really need to remember is these folks are homeless all year, not just xmas, if you buy one now and enjoy it make a point to buy another when the season isnt as giving.......
staggy
staggy
