I like boys toys and living where I do it would be a shame not to indulge in a little motorcycling. My previous experience was limited to years of London commuting and when I returned to the hobby last year, the new riding environment made me feel as though I had never ridden a bike before. It didnt help that the minx insists on being an ever present pillion.
It had got to the stage where I simply didn't enjoy our rides out. A friend told me about the Bikesafe schemes run by a lot of police forces as part of the road safety campaigns and funded by speeding tickets. I paid my tenner and turned up for a couple of days of lectures and observed riding.
I had the most fabulous time and have benefited enormously from the help given. I was particularly pleased that the focus was on skills application rather than rules.
The purpose of this thread is simply to recommend Bikesafe to any fellow bikers out there and to find out if anybody had any experience of the various advanced rider training available and advocated on the course.
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Quote by brucie
p.s. always hated taking pillions.
Only because you were fearful that it might be B1oke sat behind you in disguise :twisted:
in all my years riding i never once had a bloke or BIoke on the back of my bike. i only ever rode pillion once, in turkey with my ex wife driving a jawa 250 on windy mountain roads. scariest experience of my life (that includes 3 years service in lebanon!).
did you mean windy or winding roads?
If windy, perhaps BIokes helmet might have helped keep it all in somewhat :lol2:
Sexpert
Might have a look see round here to see what's available. I'm just getting back on two wheels now the kids are getting older. I used to be a speed freak but due to funding the kids on my own I have a "classic" bike now.
First bike ty80 age 5 by 14 I had a kx500 I rode competitivly and have a room full of motorcross and supermoto trophies I past my test age 17 and jumped straight on a gsxr 600 I was riding 1000s by 19 and I still am to this day, bikesafe is fantastic I did it with northants police had a great laugh learned alot and raced a few cops round the track that afternoon! Its been about 4 years since I did it am going to be looking into it again for next year, no matter how good you think you are your never to long in the tooth to learn
Hey up Ben, long time no speak - glad you got yourself a bike in the end and I KNEW you would love it. If you want tickets to the Perverts in Leather rally next year (start of June) let me know about February and I can sort some out for you. Experience not to be missed 
Like the idea of safer riding, don't like the idea of dayglo. I like my leather too much :twisted:
And you bikers out there, JOIN MAG NOW!!!!!
They are fighting for us on a number of issues - please see the extract below from the MAG newsletter sent to members. Frightening!!!!!
"However, it's not just the Regulation from Europe that will be effecting us soon. The 10 very real European issues that we still need to draw attention to are:
1- The Anti tampering Regulation: Specifically Article 18 which wants to stop all modifications to complete power train, from airbox to controlling the rear tyre profile.
2- Compulsory ABS. If we can't stop this, we must get a switch so that we have an option in difficult conditions where ABS doesn't function well.
3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.
4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...
5- RMI. Repair and Maintenance Information. Rather than keeping it hidden and available for huge expense, there is a chance that manufacturers will be forced to provide ECU codes etc for a fee. What that fee is remains to be seen.
6- The very worrying article 52: "If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers". So if your K&N filter can fit a CBR race bike and a CBR road bike, the best way to police that, is to make it illegal to sell the filter in Europe. The Delegated Acts are the most scarey thing, as they are the lists and details drawn up by the unelected and we won't get to see what they are including until after the Regulation has been passed!
7- In solidarity with the French we need to be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.
8- Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament too.
9- All these issues lead to the same thing, that we must take the blame for the incompetence of other road users. And while the emergency stop has been removed as a compulsory element of the UK car driving test, we are jumping through hoops with ill-judged UK interpretations of EU licencing directives.
10- Another EU licencing Directive is on its way (3DLD) to step the bike licencing system still further and the DfT and DSA still haven't sorted even the consultation process, even though it is meant to be in law by now and enacted January 2013.""
Like the idea of safer riding, don't like the idea of dayglo. I like my leather too much :twisted:
And you bikers out there, JOIN MAG NOW!!!!!
They are fighting for us on a number of issues - please see the extract below from the MAG newsletter sent to members. Frightening!!!!!
"However, it's not just the Regulation from Europe that will be effecting us soon. The 10 very real European issues that we still need to draw attention to are:
1- The Anti tampering Regulation: Specifically Article 18 which wants to stop all modifications to complete power train, from airbox to controlling the rear tyre profile.
2- Compulsory ABS. If we can't stop this, we must get a switch so that we have an option in difficult conditions where ABS doesn't function well.
3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.
4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...
5- RMI. Repair and Maintenance Information. Rather than keeping it hidden and available for huge expense, there is a chance that manufacturers will be forced to provide ECU codes etc for a fee. What that fee is remains to be seen.
6- The very worrying article 52: "If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers". So if your K&N filter can fit a CBR race bike and a CBR road bike, the best way to police that, is to make it illegal to sell the filter in Europe. The Delegated Acts are the most scarey thing, as they are the lists and details drawn up by the unelected and we won't get to see what they are including until after the Regulation has been passed!
7- In solidarity with the French we need to be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.
8- Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament too.
9- All these issues lead to the same thing, that we must take the blame for the incompetence of other road users. And while the emergency stop has been removed as a compulsory element of the UK car driving test, we are jumping through hoops with ill-judged UK interpretations of EU licencing directives.
10- Another EU licencing Directive is on its way (3DLD) to step the bike licencing system still further and the DfT and DSA still haven't sorted even the consultation process, even though it is meant to be in law by now and enacted January 2013.""
Quote by hogg
"However, it's not just the Regulation from Europe that will be effecting us soon. The 10 very real European issues that we still need to draw attention to are:
1- The Anti tampering Regulation: Specifically Article 18 which wants to stop all modifications to complete power train, from airbox to controlling the rear tyre profile.
So then, Bikers are best at deciding these issues, not the Manufacturer eh?
2- Compulsory ABS. If we can't stop this, we must get a switch so that we have an option in difficult conditions where ABS doesn't function well.
No doubt again in an attempt to defeat regulation.
3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.
This is now also compulsory for cars - what makes bikes so different?
4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...
Yeah, that's what people who drive/ride fear most - being caught out
5- RMI. Repair and Maintenance Information. Rather than keeping it hidden and available for huge expense, there is a chance that manufacturers will be forced to provide ECU codes etc for a fee. What that fee is remains to be seen.
What is so wrong with that?
6- The very worrying article 52: "If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers". So if your K&N filter can fit a CBR race bike and a CBR road bike, the best way to police that, is to make it illegal to sell the filter in Europe. The Delegated Acts are the most scarey thing, as they are the lists and details drawn up by the unelected and we won't get to see what they are including until after the Regulation has been passed!
The Road Traffic Acts and Road Traffic Regulations are laws made by Parliament - elected there by the British Public.
7- In solidarity with the French we need to be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.
I'd personally ban all bikes off the road! If they could get away with it, as well as making the wearing of yellow jackets compulsory, the should make some responsible person walk in front of the bike with a red flag!!
8- Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament too.
Too bloody right! The sight of idiots wearing short pants and tee-shirts whilst travelling at some times well in excess of the speed limit is terrifying. Human skin has a low friction tolerance!
9- All these issues lead to the same thing, that we must take the blame for the incompetence of other road users. And while the emergency stop has been removed as a compulsory element of the UK car driving test, we are jumping through hoops with ill-judged UK interpretations of EU licencing directives.
Anything, any measure that makes bikes more visible to other road users has to be a good thing. Bikers often don't help themselves. Weaving in and out of traffic - often unseen to other road users doesn't help their cause. Neither does (as is sometimes the case) travelling at speeds well in excess of the speed limit or at best to local conditions.
Sex God
What's this about compulsory headlights(Iassume in daylight since it's already mandatory at night) for cars? Is that happening?
I can see some sense for bikes - but with cars it's silly. If you habitually fail to notice half a ton of steel travelling towards you on a road, you probably shouldn't be driving.
I can see some sense for bikes - but with cars it's silly. If you habitually fail to notice half a ton of steel travelling towards you on a road, you probably shouldn't be driving.
Sex God
Quote by foxylady2209
What's this about compulsory headlights(Iassume in daylight since it's already mandatory at night) for cars? Is that happening?
I can see some sense for bikes - but with cars it's silly. If you habitually fail to notice half a ton of steel travelling towards you on a road, you probably shouldn't be driving.
you would think this is hard thing to do habitually
but no infact i got out out my car and asked the lady in question if she waited for me to drive up the road every day :doh:
A very reasoned response hogg, thank you.
My qualification for my remarks is that I've scraped up/witnessed/experienced too many deaths and serious injuries to bikers in all my years and I'd vote for anything that improves safety/visibility of not only bikers but all road users.
It's not always the car driver's or pedestrians fault but things like compulsory riding lamps on all vehicles is a step in the right direction.
Sometimes, the EU Commission gets it right.
My qualification for my remarks is that I've scraped up/witnessed/experienced too many deaths and serious injuries to bikers in all my years and I'd vote for anything that improves safety/visibility of not only bikers but all road users.
It's not always the car driver's or pedestrians fault but things like compulsory riding lamps on all vehicles is a step in the right direction.
Sometimes, the EU Commission gets it right.
Quote by foxylady2209
What's this about compulsory headlights(Iassume in daylight since it's already mandatory at night) for cars? Is that happening?
I can see some sense for bikes - but with cars it's silly. If you habitually fail to notice half a ton of steel travelling towards you on a road, you probably shouldn't be driving.
Volvo have done this for years with their cars. AFAIK, it came into European law this year.
"As a result of European Union Directive 2008/89/EC coming into force on the 7 of February 2011 all new passenger cars and small delivery vans throughout the EU will have to come equipped with daytime running lights. This will also be the case for Trucks and buses in August 2012."
The case for not doing so with motorcycles seems to be based on the argument that motorcycles will then (other than Volvo and Audi) not be the only vehicles doing so and this will decrease their visibility to other road users.
i ride a bike and in my experiance most accidents involving bikers are the sole cause of bad car drivers.
ether the driver is an old biddy who has forgoten there glasses in fact they probably have never had there eyes tested. having no idea of speed or direction i can speek from my own experances.
maybe if car drivers over the age of 50 were forced to retake there tests every 3 yeers and became more biker aware then i am sure there would be far fewer deaths.
tell me though gnv seeing as you seam an expert on the subject have you ever seen a biker smashed to pieces by a car whose driver was chatting on there mobile phone and did not see the bike stop at the junction as he was to busy chatting to his wife? i have.
aparently biker deaths from car drivers on mobile phones is increacing at an alarming rate.
ether the driver is an old biddy who has forgoten there glasses in fact they probably have never had there eyes tested. having no idea of speed or direction i can speek from my own experances.
maybe if car drivers over the age of 50 were forced to retake there tests every 3 yeers and became more biker aware then i am sure there would be far fewer deaths.
tell me though gnv seeing as you seam an expert on the subject have you ever seen a biker smashed to pieces by a car whose driver was chatting on there mobile phone and did not see the bike stop at the junction as he was to busy chatting to his wife? i have.
aparently biker deaths from car drivers on mobile phones is increacing at an alarming rate.
I have had accidents on my bike. Most were caused by car drivers pulling out on me, a few in my early years of biking were caused by my inexperience. NONE were caused by my high speed riding. I have ridden fast, dont get me wrong, but I chose appropriate times to ride fast and always ride defensively. The problem is with some car drivers is that they think that they are safe, cuckooned in the metal surrounding them and do not DRIVE defensively and think that if a bike hits them they will be OK. Please be assured that if a 800kg cruiser runs straight into your drivers door at the legal speed limit of 30 miles per hour, the chances are that the car driver will be the one to go to hospital. I rode the cruiser, and I walked away without a scratch. The driver of the car who had made eye contact with me before he pulled out did not. My forks were bent, his drivers side door was pushed into his side, breaking his hip and shattering the door glass into his face.
I admit this is not the norm, but should be a cautionary tale fot you who feel safe encased in steel.
I admit this is not the norm, but should be a cautionary tale fot you who feel safe encased in steel.
Just to add, my headlights and two spots were on, I was wearing a dayglow jacket, a white helmet and the fairing had bright orange and blue stripe stickers down the side.
The rear of the dayglow jacket had a blue patch on it with white lettering....... Guess what I did for a living then?
The rear of the dayglow jacket had a blue patch on it with white lettering....... Guess what I did for a living then?
Anything to help another person stay alive is a good thing. Bikeaware is a good thing. Drivers should have consideration for riders and look for them. Conversley riders should have their lights on, wear fluorescent clothing and ride to the speed limits and condition of the road. Simple really
Dave_Notts
Dave_Notts
Sex God
Just my own opinion but ABS is shit (car wise) Driven a variety fo vehicles from Mini 850 upwards but not HGV's. ABS in the snow is the worst thing ever! yay my car makes a grinding noise but doesnt stop 
Tried pumping the brakes to no avail. Funny I could get a mini 850 with no abs and drum brakes to stop in the snow without much issue.
Tried pumping the brakes to no avail. Funny I could get a mini 850 with no abs and drum brakes to stop in the snow without much issue. iv had a fair few years experience on bikes as pillion and rider but nowadays i stick to cars always
most accidents iv seen or had some experience with the rider (i was a nurse) have been caused by the biker not the car driver
and everyday on my way to work (i vary the route) i witness idiots on bikes speeding and weaving in and out of traffic .... not a good advert for bikers at all !
only twice have i known that the accident was caused by a car driver, one time wasnt a danger but simply an inconvience for the car driver cus his car was badly scratched by the bikes number plate
the 2nd occasion the car driver didnt see the bike until to late and hit the bike and caused an RTA and sadly the biker died !
despite that accident, most of my experience both on bikes, in a car and as a nurse, has been that the biker caused the problem by speeding and or weaving in and out of traffic !
i feel that people on bikes should use every means to learn how to ride safe and be seen
most accidents iv seen or had some experience with the rider (i was a nurse) have been caused by the biker not the car driver
and everyday on my way to work (i vary the route) i witness idiots on bikes speeding and weaving in and out of traffic .... not a good advert for bikers at all !
only twice have i known that the accident was caused by a car driver, one time wasnt a danger but simply an inconvience for the car driver cus his car was badly scratched by the bikes number plate
the 2nd occasion the car driver didnt see the bike until to late and hit the bike and caused an RTA and sadly the biker died !
despite that accident, most of my experience both on bikes, in a car and as a nurse, has been that the biker caused the problem by speeding and or weaving in and out of traffic !
i feel that people on bikes should use every means to learn how to ride safe and be seen
That more or less confirms my experiences too Danne.
Perhaps that's what Ben was referring to when he wrote "Half the drivers (sic) on the road shouldn't be driving (sic), based on my observations."
Cars do seem to be a major inconvenience to bikers and their antics are terrifying - almost as though they have a death wish! The modern high revving bikes give a false sense of security and safety to my mind.
Now, Easy Rider stuff... wind in your hair in a slow moving pack of throaty Harley choppers meandering down the highway taking in the scenery and the local talent, shag fests over the saddle in the car park at the inter-state diner...
Now you're talking bikes :rascal:
Perhaps that's what Ben was referring to when he wrote "Half the drivers (sic) on the road shouldn't be driving (sic), based on my observations."
Cars do seem to be a major inconvenience to bikers and their antics are terrifying - almost as though they have a death wish! The modern high revving bikes give a false sense of security and safety to my mind.
Now, Easy Rider stuff... wind in your hair in a slow moving pack of throaty Harley choppers meandering down the highway taking in the scenery and the local talent, shag fests over the saddle in the car park at the inter-state diner...
Now you're talking bikes :rascal:
The police reckon most bike accidents are caused by:
Filtering (This might be called weaving in and out if its done badly)
Junctions
Cornering
Overtaking
Group riding
I wanna touch on the weaving about thing cos I now it causes a fair bit of concern for non bikers. Skilled bikers use the road a lot. They will position themselves all over the road to improve the stability of the bike, improve their personal safety and improve their view and of course to make progress, that being one of the reasons bikers like bikes.
In terms of attributing blame I am sure somebody better at such things than me could dig out the insurers stats. From what I have read blame is often shared in those cases where the incident reaches court.
Filtering (This might be called weaving in and out if its done badly)
Junctions
Cornering
Overtaking
Group riding
I wanna touch on the weaving about thing cos I now it causes a fair bit of concern for non bikers. Skilled bikers use the road a lot. They will position themselves all over the road to improve the stability of the bike, improve their personal safety and improve their view and of course to make progress, that being one of the reasons bikers like bikes.
In terms of attributing blame I am sure somebody better at such things than me could dig out the insurers stats. From what I have read blame is often shared in those cases where the incident reaches court.
Quote by Ben_Minx
The police reckon most bike accidents are caused by:
Filtering (This might be called weaving in and out if its done badly)
Junctions
Cornering
Overtaking
Group riding
I wanna touch on the weaving about thing cos I now it causes a fair bit of concern for non bikers. Skilled bikers use the road a lot. They will position themselves all over the road to improve the stability of the bike, improve their personal safety and improve their view and of course to make progress, that being one of the reasons bikers like bikes.
In terms of attributing blame I am sure somebody better at such things than me could dig out the insurers stats. From what I have read blame is often shared in those cases where the incident reaches court.
Weaving; I think we are not referring to the same thing here Ben. Using all the available road and reading ahead by positioning either a car or bike appropriately is road craft - and cannot be considered 'weaving'. Often this is done (correctly) at a discreet distance behind the vehicle in front to increase visibility beyond the lead vehicle and to increase the awareness of the driver of the lead vehicle to the others' presence. Reading the road ahead is essential. Overtaking on the approach to a junction on either side of the road which the overtaker has failed to notice by remaining too close to the vehicle in front often ends with a later appointment with an undertaker!
'Weaving' in the context earlier refers to the habit of some bikers in slow moving traffic to defeat a queue by somewhat erratic riding measures between lines of traffic constantly changing lane and causing other motorists to brake suddenly as the bike skews across their bonnet. This was demonstrated in spectacular fashion on one occasion whilst driving in slow moving traffic on the outer Paris' Périphérique one Monday morning where the motorcyclist concerned, in an attempt to make improper progress, collided face-on with a white van man's large rear view mirror taking the mirror completely off its fixing. The rider didn't stop but carried on 'weaving' through the traffic!
I would have thought 'filtering' would more likely refer to joining traffic.
As for using Insurance statistics to make a case for attributing blame for accidents to either one side or the other, I think that to be very unreliable. A decision reached actuarially rather than based on witnesses as might be the case in the civil courts has a totally different complex. Insurers might agree to a 50/50 settlement for their own purposes even where the evidence might lead to a different conclusion.
