Well what a surprise this thread turned out to be. This is only the second thread that I have started and I have been totally amazed by the volume and quality of response to this particular subject. Once again it shows that this community can hold and conduct a reasoned debate with logic and common sense prevailing.
As I imagined, the responses have fallen into three main categories:
(1) Those that want no restrictions on cameras
(2) Those that would like cameras, but on a controlled basis
(3) Those that would welcome a total ban on cameras
Okay then, let’s look at each suggestion
No restrictions on cameras – probably the most popular option, with many people comfortable with the current situation. I think that, in an ideal world, most of us do enjoy coming away from a function with a pictorial memento of a fun social night out with all the associated good memories etc
Controlled use of cameras – the idea of an area set aside purely for photographs is a valid one. I suppose it is similar in principle to having “smoking and no smoking†area within a venue. Worthy of consideration and if workable has a lot of merit.
No cameras at all– in numbers terms, probably not as well supported as the first two options. However, probably more vocal and adamant for their comments to be heard because of the grave career, domestic and social consequences of photo abuse
So what is the answer?
A tough call, with no popular answer. Please remember that this is only my own personal assessment of the replies in the thread. I have re read ALL the posts last night and today and have tried to identify an impartial answer, but I do realise some will be disappointed by what I have written. Its nothing personal.
Looking at all the arguments for and against, I personally would favour an overall ban on cameras at official approved munches, and that this point should be included in future Munch rules, and clearly indicated in the Munch invitations, prior to the event. Believe it or not, this was not my view before I started this thread, but my reasoning behind this is quite simple, and can be summarised in the comments made by a certain member in his post, which said:
“The number one concern should be protecting the lives and personal safety of EVERYONE attendingâ€
To me, that statement hit the nail on the head, outweighing all the many very persuasive counter arguments.
I think that we have to put our own personal preferences to one side, and in this instance not go with the feelings of the majority, but with the feelings of those whose personal livelihood and security could be placed in jeopardy through the potentially inappropriate actions of other members/persons.
I am sure that most of us would be prepared to forego the “tiny bit of happiness†that we get from pictures, in favour of all members being comfortable with the thought of attending a munch.
One of the most reassuring aspects of swinging sites is the close-knit community that does develop through the social activities of the sites. I genuinely believe that, as a result of this camaraderie, we do all appreciate the potential consequences of photo abuse and wouldn’t wish it on any of our fellow members.
(It occurs to me anyway that most munches are held in public venues like pubs or sports clubs, so there are usually plenty of opportunities for individuals to take photos of each other (if that’s what you want) in the public areas away from the munch itself.)
Whilst I think that this camera ban should be the norm, I do also acknowledge that there can and should be certain opportunities for cameras at munches but only on a very selected and limited basis.
Camera Area within Munch – I did personally like this idea as it could very much add to the munch theme, if organised correctly. However, most of the venues that are used for munches are not big enough or suitable for such an area and it also places an additional burden on the munch organiser to arrange for this facility. I would only personally go along with this idea, if the munch organiser could guarantee 100% that it would be organised and clearly segregated from the rest of the munch activity (like a no smoking zone). It must also be advised to prospective munches in advance as part of the invitation, giving members the opportunity to decline attending the munch if it bothers them that much. This option would have to be at the Munch organisers’ discretion and would need to be verified by the Moderators.
During the thread, several other interesting suggestions were raised, and I would just like to pass a few comments:
Official photographer – yes I did suggest that in the thread, but on reflection, there are more negatives and positives to this in terms of future personal security, gaining individual permission and all the other points raised during this debate.
Camera phones – the one flaw unfortunately, as it is unpoliceable. This is where trust amongst members is paramount, and again it should be in the Munch rules that camera phones are not permitted to be used for photographic purposes during a Munch event. Not satisfactory or fool proof I know, but you cannot prevent anyone taking a camera phone into a munch, that is just not practical or workable.
And who makes a final decision on this subject?
I haven’t got a clue. It may be that nobody in authority within this site takes any notice of this thread. That’s as maybe, but I think the thread has served a valid purpose as a “timely reminder†that we should never take anything from granted and that this lifestyle comes with a cost.
Thank you for all your contributions, and here’s to a successful and fun munch program.
RWL
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Cameras at Munches - The Summary
Quote by In the other thread, redwine_lover
ok its time to close this debate..we have had a wealth of replies and comments..all appreciated...i will be submitted my own personall summary of this thread in a separate thread so suggest the mods lock this now as any future comments can be made on the new thread
RWL
I'm not entirely sure it is time to close the debate, even disliking circular threads as I do.
Like you, I've read all the posts here, over the road, and given the subject quite a bit of thought. Mainly and selfishly because it effects my most favourite aspect of the social side of the lifestyle. Selfish ? Maybe.
And I'm going to disagree with most of the suggestions, and settle on this .........
. . . . . . . . but I think the thread has served a valid purpose as a “timely reminder†that we should never take anything from granted and that this lifestyle comes with a cost.
. . . . mainly because I see most of the suggestions as pretty much unworkable in "the real word"
Personally, I think it's a totally unresolvable issue.
Clearly, it's a given that you can't please all of the people . . . . . etc and fully take on board that we would need to . . .
. . . . . I think that we have to put our own personal preferences to one side, and in this instance not go with the feelings of the majority . . . . .
. . . but it's that ^ ^ ^ ^ with which I have the biggest "issue"
What I'm struggling with is this ...
The real worry seems to be the malicious (or careless) use of the pics.
Hell hath no fury ................................ - and that would include petty minded, bitter and twisted individuals that think/believe they have been wronged in some way.
Well . . . .
I don't think that can be guarded against - not even with a total ban.
And it winds me up far too much when I see things "over-legislated" and in particular by unworkable laws/rules.
I find they become nothing more than a way of discriminating against individuals, on an individual basis; and used as "back door" unjustified punishment/retribution tools.
Yep - I know I'm a jaded cynic when it comes to some aspects of "authority"
Again . . . .
. . . . . . . . we should never take anything from granted and that this lifestyle comes with a cost.
but I would add "comes with a cost, and inherent risks"
I see the argument for minimising risks to individuals and/or groups - that's how I used to earn a crust, a thousand years ago.
BUT ............
(and this might be where I lose a friend or two)
In the same way as I argue against people that complain about a certain level of Adult pictures and content in the forums - I would be forced to argue in the same manner, on the same grounds about the whole camera/pics issue.
If it's THAT big a risk or issue to your "real lives" - should you not reconsider your involvement ?
Most of what we do in life has a risk element.
We, in the lifestyle choose to increase the risks.
Be that emotional turmoil, clap, exposure by word or picture; or a whole host of others.
Again - I see the requirement to minimize those and any risks.
Most people see a great deal of what goes on at a munch.
To spot someone standing still in your eye line, adjusting/focusing a digital camera is not that difficult to do.
If you don't want your picture taken, or appear in the background of someone elses; (and here we go) - could it not be seen as your responsibility to do what you can to avoid that situation ? - In the same way that you can't really blame me for ringing or texting you at an inopportune or inappropriate time ? - Given the normal rules of general good manners, regarding middle of the night sort of thing.
The same as it's your responsibility to ensure the use of condoms, or not allow/encourage (unwanted) emotional involvement from your playmates ?
Or to make sure you look both ways before crossing the road ?
Please don't misunderstand me.
The last thing I'd want to see is half a dozen people wandering round snapping away, willy nilly. And I can see that if we didn't at least address the topic, that could happen. In fact, we might already have started down that road judging by the last couple of munches I've been to.
A possible answer ? I would see that as inappropriate behaviour and would look to the munch organisers, the "long standing respected members" and yes even Mods and Ops to deal with it in the same way as any inappropriate behaviour.
In closing, and summary .....................
In my HUMBLE opinion (really)
I thinks it was/is good to air and discuss the topic, but I believe the answer to be somewhere between "letting sleeping dogs lie", and it's a very good "timely reminder"
Quote by dambuster
ok its time to close this debate..we have had a wealth of replies and comments..all appreciated...i will be submitted my own personall summary of this thread in a separate thread so suggest the mods lock this now as any future comments can be made on the new thread
RWL
I'm not entirely sure it is time to close the debate, even disliking circular threads as I do.
In closing, and summary .....................
In my HUMBLE opinion (really)
I thinks it was/is good to air and discuss the topic, but I believe the answer to be somewhere between "letting sleeping dogs lie", and it's a very good "timely reminder"
I only asked for it to be locked as i knew i was opening another summary thread on which the debate will continue to rock and roll till we all get bored and head off to the pub
Knowing you dammie, am sure no one has taken offence to anything you have siad...and at some stage, i am sure someone, somewhere will make a decision...or maybe not..
i have had my say so its time to let others continue this for as long as it makes sense to discuss it......
RWL
Quote by dambuster
The last thing I'd want to see is half a dozen people wandering round snapping away, willy nilly. And I can see that if we didn't at least address the topic, that could happen. In fact, we might already have started down that road judging by the last couple of munches I've been to.
A possible answer ? I would see that as inappropriate behaviour and would look to the munch organisers, the "long standing respected members" and yes even Mods and Ops to deal with it in the same way as any inappropriate behaviour.
In closing, and summary .....................
In my HUMBLE opinion (really)
I thinks it was/is good to air and discuss the topic, but I believe the answer to be somewhere between "letting sleeping dogs lie", and it's a very good "timely reminder"
Although I dont agree with some aspects of what you've said Dammy ( & specifically the idea from over the road that 'if being 'outed' as a result of photo's taken is of so much detriment to carreer/family then perhaps 'we' shouldnt be attending these events in the first place' - and yes, I know it wasnt you who said it originally, but you did say it here:
If it's THAT big a risk or issue to your "real lives" - should you not reconsider your involvement ?- I'm using that to emphasise my point) - what I do agree with wholeheartedly is this bit above.
For the last couple of munches I've been to, the 'rules' have been very slack over the bringing and use of cameras, and unless it is 'reigned in' (as opposed to stopped altogether) then it is perhaps only a trend that will continue. I too (albeit guilty of taking pics at the weekend so this is somehwat hypocrytical) do not want to see people 'snapping away willy nilly' become the norm - and although I dont agree with the 'risk assessment' sentiments in principal, staying away from Munches is probably exactly what I'd do.
Most swingers will have attended a few of the establlished clubs. There's usually no problems with snappers at any of these clubs, because the clubs usually have security and are managed responsibly. So no one tries to walk about taking photos.
The organised but unmanaged events make it easy for anyone to try taking photos. Which is often easily done because there is initially a good deal of trust.
The organised but unmanaged events make it easy for anyone to try taking photos. Which is often easily done because there is initially a good deal of trust.
Sex God
Quote by redwine_lover
“The number one concern should be protecting the lives and personal safety of EVERYONE attendingâ€
If I could get me emoticons working this'd get a :thumbsup:. In my view this is true of more things than just cameras.
Quote by dambuster
If it's THAT big a risk or issue to your "real lives" - should you not reconsider your involvement ?
Dammie, my friend I'm afraid I think (in the nicest possible way of course!) that that is just bollocks! I haven't time just now to go into why. I'll try to get back to say so.
.
Quote by westerross
If it's THAT big a risk or issue to your "real lives" - should you not reconsider your involvement ?
Dammie, my friend I'm afraid I think (in the nicest possible way of course!) that that is just bollocks! I haven't time just now to go into why. I'll try to get back to say so.
.
- I've been known to spout 'em from time to time 
But ............
I did say reconsider . . . I didn't say end or cancel
