Chidren and same sex cpls

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Freckledbird
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
Children will be made very aware that they are from a differently parented family grouping, once they are in school. I think a great deal of sympathy and skill would be required, to help children through any problems this might cause.

Yeah this is the point i was getting at in a round about sort of way, it could be very confusing for a child to go to school on his/her first day an have been living with a same sex couple family only to be ridiculed for what he/she believed was the "norm" all along by other "normal family" kids.
I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
Not that im saying i dont agree with same sex couple families though, like is aid earlier every child deserves a stable happy home whatever way shape or form that comes to them in, there are many,many kids living in homes whose lives are the shits who have male/female parents who i think would jump at the chance to live with same sex parents in a safe environment!

10 Apr 2007

Firstly i don't have a problem with it, But what does bother me is the fact the children themselves have no choice. I have read the stories about how these children are tormented and bullied etc, but like I said that’s only what I’ve read or heard and you have to sometimes wonder if the parents are thinking of themselves rather than the children if this is the case, which might not be, but going on the information I have it makes it a very difficult question when you truly think about it, but it would help if someone who actually was brought up with same sex parents could comment, as its a very interesting topic.

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
Firstly i don't have a problem with it, But what does bother me is the fact the children themselves have no choice. I have read the stories about how these children are tormented and bullied etc, but like I said that’s only what I’ve read or heard and you have to sometimes wonder if the parents are thinking of themselves rather than the children if this is the case, which might not be, but going on the information I have it make it a very difficult question when you truly think about it, but it would help if someone who actually was brought up with same sex parents could comment, as its a very interesting topic.

No child borne of a natural male/female partnership has a choice, do they? Some of them get abused, tormented and bullied too.

10 Apr 2007

forget it!

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
forget it!

Why?

10 Apr 2007

Well making others out to be abusive, violent etc doesn't make any difference, humans can do that themselves its nothing to do with gender, my point is a lot of our society is against it, and being a mother myself i can honestly say i would be cautious of having a family if i was in a same sex relationship, and not because i didn't want children but more in the way our society is if that makes any sense.

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
Well making others out to be abusive, violent etc doesn't make any difference, humans can do that themselves its nothing to do with gender, my point is a lot of our society is against it, and being a mother myself i can honestly say i would be cautious of having a family if i was in a same sex relationship, and not because i didn't want children but more in the way our society is if that makes any sense.

Of course it makes sense. But I think you've argued your own point - it's nothing to do with gender.

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Srne
The only thing that would bother me about same sex couples having children is that it could, if not handled and dealt with correctly and appropriately, lead the child to develop orientation toward same sex relationships that the child would not possibly normally have developed?

Everyone is raised straight - why are there gay people then?
You can't make anyone gay just like you can't make anyone straight.

10 Apr 2007

Quote by Srne
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
.

I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
!
They wouldn't be swayed! Gay/straight/bi has nothing to do with nurture, it has been proven that there is a genetic influence! You have no control over your sexuality regardless of what you do or your parents may do to influence it, it is already part of your genetic makeup just as whether you will have blonde hair or blue eyes etc etc!!!
maz xx

11 Apr 2007

Quote by mazandden
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
.

I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
!
They wouldn't be swayed! Gay/straight/bi has nothing to do with nurture, it has been proven that there is a genetic influence! You have no control over your sexuality regardless of what you do or your parents may do to influence it, it is already part of your genetic makeup just as whether you will have blonde hair or blue eyes etc etc!!!
maz xx
Like I said earlier... nobody is raised gay, in fact everyone is raised 'to be' striaght, yet there are plenty of gay people.

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Kiss
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
.

I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
!
They wouldn't be swayed! Gay/straight/bi has nothing to do with nurture, it has been proven that there is a genetic influence! You have no control over your sexuality regardless of what you do or your parents may do to influence it, it is already part of your genetic makeup just as whether you will have blonde hair or blue eyes etc etc!!!
maz xx
Like I said earlier... nobody is raised gay, in fact everyone is raised 'to be' striaght, yet there are plenty of gay people.
My kids have been raised to be themselves, be that straight, gay, bi or celibate (shock)
This has, however, resulted in my eldest declaring that she's straight- apart from on Wednesdays loon

when she is a temporary lesbian. Apparantly, lesbianism would also be an option if Christina Aguilera was available. Don't know where she gets it from innocent

11 Apr 2007

Can today be Lesbian Wednesday then - we could all send one another cards and gifts! :twisted:

11 Apr 2007

Cracking idea! What else is there to do on a wednesday dunno

it sounds like a cool way to punctuate the week! lol

11 Apr 2007

Quote by mazandden
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
.

I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
!
They wouldn't be swayed! Gay/straight/bi has nothing to do with nurture, it has been proven that there is a genetic influence! You have no control over your sexuality regardless of what you do or your parents may do to influence it, it is already part of your genetic makeup just as whether you will have blonde hair or blue eyes etc etc!!!
maz xx
Not guaranteed im afraid Maz, sexuality has not been proven to be genetic this would be impossible to prove its merely a hypothesis based upon social inclusion research of a small number of homosexual females and males, to prove that homosexuality was genetic there would need to be biological scientific evidence to prove that cells, molecular chemical characteristics in the brains motor neurons, and differentials in parts of the brain like the temporal lobe and the homosexual persons Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA to you an me)were apparent in gay people only, and there is no such evidence.
i thought this would provoke a few people, who have quite obviously taken my point slightly at the shitty end of the wooden stick, i was merely stating (as i did in an earlier post) that i think it would be a good idea to let the child know from an early age that same sex couples were not the "norm" and that it was considered more socially acceptable (which if we are all honest about the world we live in)for children to have partners of the opposite sex as there IS scientific study to PROVE that nurture does affect a child's decisions on their future behavior and ideology.
I am by no means homophobic or believe that gay people make lesser parents, as would not a black, chinese or diabetic person, parenting skills have no biase to colour, sexuality or creed.
I think that same sex couples are fine but have to be careful to give the child they care for a well balanced and educated approach to the problems the child may encounter with having same sex parents, and make them aware that every option is available to them, now wipe that pooh of your hands you lot an grab the other end of the stick lol

11 Apr 2007

Quote by mazandden
Good points SRNE. Part of the 'nature versus nurture' debate, methinks.
I don't think that all children who are brought up by two or more people of any gender, will necessarily develop the same sexual inclination. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any gay people at all! I know of gay people who have come from very straight-laced, prudish backgrounds. One of my favourite lines from a song is 'I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality' (Affirmation, Savage Garden)- I think it's spot on.
.

I also think that its bang on that you cant choose your sexuality FB, as its a fact that male/female cpl parents have gay children, you are what you are in this life, an if you have a "normal" (i hate that word as who is to say whats normal) upbringing, you develop your sexuality naturally as opposed to same sex parents children who i think could be "swayed" to this outcome.
!
They wouldn't be swayed! Gay/straight/bi has nothing to do with nurture, it has been proven that there is a genetic influence! You have no control over your sexuality regardless of what you do or your parents may do to influence it, it is already part of your genetic makeup just as whether you will have blonde hair or blue eyes etc etc!!!
maz xx
Not guaranteed im afraid Maz, sexuality has not been proven to be genetic this would be impossible to prove its merely a hypothesis based upon social inclusion research of a small number of homosexual females and males, to prove that homosexuality was genetic there would need to be biological scientific evidence to prove that cells, molecular chemical characteristics in the brains motor neurons, and differentials in parts of the brain like the temporal lobe and the homosexual persons Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA to you an me)were apparent in gay people only, and there is no such evidence.
i thought this would provoke a few people, who have quite obviously taken my point slightly at the shitty end of the wooden stick, i was merely stating (as i did in an earlier post) that i think it would be a good idea to let the child know from an early age that same sex couples were not the "norm" and that it was considered more socially acceptable (which if we are all honest about the world we live in)for children to have partners of the opposite sex as there IS scientific study to PROVE that nurture does affect a child's decisions on their future behavior and ideology.
I am by no means homophobic or believe that gay people make lesser parents, as would not a black, chinese or diabetic person, parenting skills have no biase to colour, sexuality or creed.
I think that same sex couples are fine but have to be careful to give the child they care for a well balanced and educated approach to the problems the child may encounter with having same sex parents, and make them aware that every option is available to them, now wipe that pooh of your hands you lot an grab the other end of the stick lol

11 Apr 2007

oh no, maz grabbed the stick with her teeth!
Not be kissing her for a while!!!
den

11 Apr 2007

Quote by mazandden
oh no, maz grabbed the stick with her teeth!
Not be kissing her for a while!!!
den

mouthwash (the listerine variety will have you back puckerin up to her in no time!!)

11 Apr 2007

we dont have any, but its alright, i'll take her from behind, she looks better that way anyway! :twisted:
Though if she reads this first might need to be applying a rear naked choke to stop her getting to the knife drawer in the kitchen! :shock:

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Srne
I think that same sex couples are fine but have to be careful to give the child they care for a well balanced and educated approach to the problems the child may encounter with having same sex parents, and make them aware that every option is available to them

I think that same sex/straight/black/white/single/polyamorous/bi-sexual/tall/short/ etc parents are fine but have to be careful to give their child/ren a well balanced and educated approach to the problems they may face as children growing up in this world as well as having same sex/straight/black/white/single/polyamorous/bi-sexual/tall/short/ etc parents. And make them aware that they can be anything they want to be, at all, ever.
splendid

11 Apr 2007

Without expressing my opinion on the subject as a whole – I would like to point out that gender identity has not yet been raised.
Note: gender identity not sexuality.
There are important stages in a child’s development when they build their perception of gender identity and become gender aware.
Has anyone considered this part of the child’s development and what difference same sex parents would have - whether positive or negative?

11 Apr 2007

Preparing and nurturing your child regarding reality/people/sexual orientations etc etc isn't something that should be especially undertaken by same sex parents. It should be done by all parents, whether it's a single mum or a gay couple.
And regarding genetics and homosexuality, no there isn't any definite proof of a link, but most if not all studies carried out have only been on the X chromosome and not much else.

11 Apr 2007

Quote by PoloLady
Has anyone considered this part of the child’s development and what difference same sex parents would have - whether positive or negative?

I see where you are coming from Polo but I'm not sure having 2 fathers instead of a lone father would affect gender identity. I'm not sure it's a numbers thing.
I live next door to a single dad of a 10 year old boy. Does anyone question whether it's screwing the kid up? No.. most people go "Oh what a nice fella" but you add another man to the equation and it then becomes questionable.
To me it only becomes questionable by others because those two men sleep togther, and that may in some way involve or affect the child in abusive way or lead to peversions. :doh:

11 Apr 2007

Quote by PoloLady
There are important stages in a child’s development when they build their perception of gender identity and become gender aware.

And it can be at a very early age too. I worked in a nursery for a while (three and four-year old children). One of the four-year old girls dressed as a boy, acted like a boy and insisted on being called 'David'. She didn't/wouldn't answer to anything else. Used the boy's toilet, even.
Her parents were an average married couple with another little girl (older), who hadn't treated their children any differently from each other. They couldn't understand it but didn't see it as a fault of anyone's, nor did they try to 'correct' their daughter. It just became 'normal' to them and their daughter was perfectly happy.

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Kiss
To me it only becomes questionable by others because those two men sleep togther, and that may in some way involve or affect the child in abusive way or lead to peversions. :doh:

Could it not be questionable by others because they anticipating problems 'they' wouldn't know how to handle - rather than them thinking about abusive treatment and perversion?

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Freckledbird

There are important stages in a child’s development when they build their perception of gender identity and become gender aware.

And it can be at a very early age too. I worked in a nursery for a while (three and four-year old children). One of the four-year old girls dressed as a boy, acted like a boy and insisted on being called 'David'. She didn't/wouldn't answer to anything else. Used the boy's toilet, even.
Her parents were an average married couple with another little girl (older), who hadn't treated their children any differently from each other. They couldn't understand it but didn't see it as a fault of anyone's, nor did they try to 'correct' their daughter. It just became 'normal' to them and their daughter was perfectly happy.
Oooo now this has completely thrown me lol

- call me a numpty, but, on that limited information, wouldnt (as a result of the wishes of the child) treating her as a boy at such a developmental age, in both school and home 'pre-dispose' (cant think of a better word) her to always being David?
would it be right to condition her as a girl anyway and make the decisions later? or condition 'David' as a boy from nursery age on the basis of his wishes at the time?
fook me that's just done my head in! :crazy: (and forgive my ignorance please if there's a very obvious answer to this! )
in edit - and its off-topic too! sorry redface

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Darkfire
Oooo now this has completely thrown me - call me a numpty, but, on that limited information, wouldnt (as a result of the wishes of the child) treating her as a boy at such a developmental age, in both school and home 'pre-dispose' (cant think of a better word) her to always being David?
I don't know, but there are people who would ask 'what's wrong with that?' anyway.
would it be right to condition her as a girl anyway and make the decisions later? or condition 'David' as a boy from nursery age on the basis of his wishes at the time?
David's wishes were, I think, humoured as a passing fad, which then became more. I don't think there are any clear-cut rights and wrongs to conditioning children (I'm thinking of the guns and dolls arguments here).
fook me that's just done my head in! :crazy: (and forgive my ignorance please if there's a very obvious answer to this! )

My responses in red DF.
There isn't an obvious answer and none was sought, as far as I can recall. To be honest, I just went along with how they treated David, because it just felt natural and the other staff and parents obviously had no qualms about it.

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Freckledbird

... wouldnt (as a result of the wishes of the child) treating her as a boy at such a developmental age, in both school and home 'pre-dispose' (cant think of a better word) her to always being David?
David's wishes were, I think, humoured as a passing fad, which then became more. I don't think there are any clear-cut rights and wrongs to conditioning children (I'm thinking of the guns and dolls arguments here).
fook me that's just done my head in! :crazy: (and forgive my ignorance please if there's a very obvious answer to this! )

My responses in red DF.

confused

I'm not questioning your actions FB, its your example that's made me think about this - and yes, definately the guns & dolls debate wink

Its hurting my head - which is good!
(uhoh!) - having been humoured as a passing fad, which then turned into more... is Davids gender identity innate or conditioned ?
and how might that affect sexuality at a later date, if at all?
shut up Dark! lol

- sorry folks as you were redface

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Darkfire
I'm not questioning your actions FB, its your example that's made me think about this - and yes, definately the guns & dolls debate Its hurting my head - which is good!
(uhoh!) - having been humoured as a passing fad, which then turned into more... is Davids gender identity innate or conditioned ?
and how might that affect sexuality at a later date, if at all?
shut up Dark! - sorry folks as you were

I know you're not! I think this is not really off-topic; it's a side issue which has arisen because of the discussion.
My personal view is that David's gender identity was/is innate. Goes back to 'can't control or choose your sexuality' in a way, I think.
I don't think that the parenting had anything to do with it; same-sex parents wouldn't have made a difference either, I doubt. The only difference would have been, that some people might have said that it was because he had same-sex parents that his gender identity was affected.

11 Apr 2007

Not quite on thread, I know, but it seems a suitable place to comment that the government's insistence on adoption agencies accepting all sorts of partnerships as suitable - and therefore forcing the catholic adoption agency out of business - seems totally crazy. If people are to be free to do their own thing, then so should the agency - and closing something that is so valued and has done such good work in the past is just not common sense! confused

:?

11 Apr 2007

Quote by Philfuller
... the government's insistence on adoption agencies accepting all sorts of partnerships as suitable - and therefore forcing the catholic adoption agency out of business...

How has it put the Catholic adoption agency out of 'business' ?