Childminding are checks going to far?

13 Apr 2008

Quote by helnheaven

Omg I have heard it all its that word SUED!
Would you sue a childminder if that was the case?
What would happen if the child was in my care a friend of one of my children I had back for tea!
I tell you what it makes you wonder!
To few people spoil things for so many!
Rant over!

I probably wouldnt sue but there are many who would.
There is a difference between PAYING for a service and having a child back for tea who is friends with one of your children.
Minx dont take this the wrong way but I sometimes wonder what planet you live on. We DO NOT live in a perfect world and there are some who dont take shit and sueand others who let common sense prevail.
I do agree on what you said about the few who spoil things for others.
Yeah and why do they? Lets be honest at the heart, it is f*ck all to do with what's right in a lot of cases. Far more to do with how much are we going to make out of this! We are now led to believe that it is our right to get compensation in the form of the big (You fucked up hahaha) buck. And as time goes on it becomes our right indeed.
The last time i was in hospital I even had an ambulance chasing 'representative' of a well known and respected (yeah right) association of solicitors, come and see me at my bedside FFS. I'm not even sure if thats ethical. But he got told to f*ck off sharpish.
I know if it was my child that was the brunt of something that happened with or at a child minders then I would be the first to jump up and say "what the fuck happened". The money grabbing though ? I know for a fact I wouldn't go after the bucks. I suppose i maybe wrong nowadays but then I live with a clear conscience and a high sense of personal morality wrongly or rightly.
I would add that this doesn't mean that I would not agree that if there was a financial reason/loss then there maybe a case top answer for adequate remuneration for losses incurred etc. But compensation no! I have seen first hand people jump with glee at the fact that they got thousands pay off for something they speculatively pushed for and didn't expect to get.

13 Apr 2008

Quote by Lost
Yeah and why do they? Lets be honest at the heart, it is f*ck all to do with what's right in a lot of cases. Far more to do with how much are we going to make out of this! We are now led to believe that it is our right to get compensation in the form of the big (You fucked up hahaha) buck. And as time goes on it becomes our right indeed.
I know if it was my child that was the brunt of something that happened with or at a child minders then I would be the first to jump up and say "what the fuck happened". The money grabbing though ? I know for a fact I wouldn't go after the bucks. I suppose i maybe wrong nowadays but then I live with a clear conscience and a high sense of personal morality wrongly or rightly.

Like I said, common sense should prevail in cases like this. However, I do believe in some cases litigation has its place.
How clear are conciences of the MD'S when their companies polloute the air/water supply with toxins which then cause people to have cancer? Should they be allowed to get away with it or should they be hit where it hurts to teach them a lesson not to let it happen again??

13 Apr 2008

Quote by Freckledbird
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

Maybe every child minder should just say stuff it, it just aint worth the grief anymore! Or Doctors who face being sued for a slight mistake, or the teacher who agrees to go on school trips, and a child has a unavoidable accident.
As the saying goes " where there's blame, there's a claim"! :shock:
It really is just not worth the hassle anymore. The shoe lace reference was a joke and to demonstrate how mad it has got!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

13 Apr 2008

Quote by Freckledbird
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

The mad country we live in....a school can prescribe the morning after pill to under age girls,without the parents permission, but needs a parents permission to give them an asprin, oh where will all this madness end? :shock:

13 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

The mad country we live in....a school can prescribe the morning after pill to under age girls, but needs a parents permission to give them an asprin, oh where will all this madness end? :shock:
I'm not aware a school can offer the morning after pill. They can give advice as to where to get the pill "Plan B" it's called and it's only chemists or outlets that have qualified people there that can prescribe it.
The schools however have sessions that can give "c-card" which is condoms only and advice on other contraception.

13 Apr 2008

Quote by jaymar
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

The mad country we live in....a school can prescribe the morning after pill to under age girls, but needs a parents permission to give them an asprin, oh where will all this madness end? :shock:
I'm not aware a school can offer the morning after pill. They can give advice as to where to get the pill "Plan B" it's called and it's only chemists or outlets that have qualified people there that can prescribe it.
The schools however have sessions that can give "c-card" which is condoms only and advice on other contraception.
This is just one school of MANY that do this...
The local Church of England school - Lutterworth Grammar School & Community College - has been revealed as giving out more contraceptives and morning-after pills than any other educational establishment in the country.
As part of a government initiative aimed at thinning out a generation of Vicky Pollards, Lutterworth has issued 345 morning-after pills in four years.
Both the school nurse and the local GP, Dr Jane Taylor - who attends the school two lunchtimes a week - can prescribe the morning-after pill and give out contraceptives, including the Pill and condoms, to girls and boys over 14. And they can do this without parents' knowledge.
Advertisement
"It's a confidential service and that's why it has proved so successful," the school says. "All young people who visit the service are also encouraged to speak to a parent, carer, family member or trusted adult to discuss any issues or problems they may face."
The scheme has helped to reduce teenage pregnancies in the area by almost a fifth - surpassing the government target of 15 per cent.
But it has also thrown Lutterworth into frenzied debate, attracting outrage from some parents and anti-abortion groups.
So there is my valid point. lol

13 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

The mad country we live in....a school can prescribe the morning after pill to under age girls, but needs a parents permission to give them an asprin, oh where will all this madness end? :shock:
I'm not aware a school can offer the morning after pill. They can give advice as to where to get the pill "Plan B" it's called and it's only chemists or outlets that have qualified people there that can prescribe it.
The schools however have sessions that can give "c-card" which is condoms only and advice on other contraception.
This is just one school of MANY that do this...
The local Church of England school - Lutterworth Grammar School & Community College - has been revealed as giving out more contraceptives and morning-after pills than any other educational establishment in the country.
As part of a government initiative aimed at thinning out a generation of Vicky Pollards, Lutterworth has issued 345 morning-after pills in four years.
Both the school nurse and the local GP, Dr Jane Taylor - who attends the school two lunchtimes a week - can prescribe the morning-after pill and give out contraceptives, including the Pill and condoms, to girls and boys over 14. And they can do this without parents' knowledge.
Advertisement
"It's a confidential service and that's why it has proved so successful," the school says. "All young people who visit the service are also encouraged to speak to a parent, carer, family member or trusted adult to discuss any issues or problems they may face."
The scheme has helped to reduce teenage pregnancies in the area by almost a fifth - surpassing the government target of 15 per cent.
But it has also thrown Lutterworth into frenzied debate, attracting outrage from some parents and anti-abortion groups.
So there is my valid point. lol

I understand your point, but it's an "outlet" that works within a school, ie., surgery. It's them that prescribe the pills via medical professionals... not the school themselves (ie., Teachers).
Think we were at cross purposes smile

13 Apr 2008

Quote by jaymar
Minx, at our school we aren't allowed to apply any kind of cream, even for medical purposes. If the parents want them to wear cream, they have to come in and apply it.
We do have playground equipment such as you described though - and our head has just bought in stilts, pogo sticks and space hoppers. Got to say though, the staff is not keen on the new stuff - accidents waiting to happen.
I applied to be a registered childminder many moons ago and gave up because of all the checks and changes they wanted - my house is a home and I'd raised two perfectly healthy children with it in the state it was.

The mad country we live in....a school can prescribe the morning after pill to under age girls, but needs a parents permission to give them an asprin, oh where will all this madness end? :shock:
I'm not aware a school can offer the morning after pill. They can give advice as to where to get the pill "Plan B" it's called and it's only chemists or outlets that have qualified people there that can prescribe it.
The schools however have sessions that can give "c-card" which is condoms only and advice on other contraception.
This is just one school of MANY that do this...
The local Church of England school - Lutterworth Grammar School & Community College - has been revealed as giving out more contraceptives and morning-after pills than any other educational establishment in the country.
As part of a government initiative aimed at thinning out a generation of Vicky Pollards, Lutterworth has issued 345 morning-after pills in four years.
Both the school nurse and the local GP, Dr Jane Taylor - who attends the school two lunchtimes a week - can prescribe the morning-after pill and give out contraceptives, including the Pill and condoms, to girls and boys over 14. And they can do this without parents' knowledge.
Advertisement
"It's a confidential service and that's why it has proved so successful," the school says. "All young people who visit the service are also encouraged to speak to a parent, carer, family member or trusted adult to discuss any issues or problems they may face."
The scheme has helped to reduce teenage pregnancies in the area by almost a fifth - surpassing the government target of 15 per cent.
But it has also thrown Lutterworth into frenzied debate, attracting outrage from some parents and anti-abortion groups.
So there is my valid point. lol

I understand your point, but it's an "outlet" that works within a school, ie., surgery. It's them that prescribe the pills via medical professionals... not the school themselves (ie., Teachers).
Think we were at cross purposes smile

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

13 Apr 2008

I think Mar was making the point that someone is coming into the schools to prescribe the pills- teachers cannot "prescribe" anything, only (some) registered health professionals can prescribe.
The school(rightly or wrongly) is simply a place for this to happen.

14 Apr 2008

Quote by winchwench
I think Mar was making the point that someone is coming into the schools to prescribe the pills- teachers cannot "prescribe" anything, only (some) registered health professionals can prescribe.
The school(rightly or wrongly) is simply a place for this to happen.

Yes that's it in a nutshell.
An outlet for these purposes is a "place" that is available and 'authorised' to give out contraception, sti treatment, pregnancy tests etc., they have medically authorised staff, mainly doctors but sometimes nurses who are allowed to prescribe treatments and advice.
These outlets/surgery are based within a school or youth project for example.
Kent you suggested that the school offered morning after pill, I was saying I'm not aware the school does, but the doctors do as would a doctor in a normal surgery at your GP's.
The reason I know all this is because I'm working in one of these outlets at the moment.

14 Apr 2008

Having used childminders in the past for all my children, my answer to this is no I don't think too many checks are in place. If I can't for whatever reason look after my child for 2 hours or all day I want to make sure that the people I trust them to have had every check under the sun. When you first meet a childminder, all you have to go on to help with your decision is A) your gut instinct and B) whether they are thouroughly checked out by your local authority. If B is in place it can make the subsequent meetings much easier and help you trust your gut instinct better. If I were a childminder (heavens above rolleyes

) I would expect to have to go through all the checks and be worried if I wasn't asked to confused

14 Apr 2008

a friend of mine has been a child minder for about 10 years, she bought a bigger house with bigger garden and even had a playroom built onto the side of house, she loves kids and her house is clean and tidy as much as can be expected when you have 6 children running round.
She is very good at what she does and has had all the checks done, now after all this time they are saying that when she has looked after these children and her own from am to 7pm she now should have to go to college 2 nights a week for 2 years to show she is cabable and get some qualifications.
I do agree that most checks and courses have to be done but surley these should be done before people are allowed to charge others to look after their children not years later and also I think a once yearly basic check on the person would be a good idea

14 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."

14 Apr 2008

Quote by Unc

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:

14 Apr 2008

So, do you think that banning the MAP for under 16's will stop them having sex?
The reality is, under age teens have sex. I did - although only just- and I'm damn sure I'm not alone on here.
I sure as hell wouldn't encourage it- but I'm a realist, it happens. Therefore it seems a damn sight better that a young girl who acted like young girls do gets the opportunity to access these services, rather than has an unwanted pregnancy.

14 Apr 2008

Quote by winchwench
So, do you think that banning the MAP for under 16's will stop them having sex?
The reality is, under age teens have sex. I did - although only just- and I'm damn sure I'm not alone on here.
I sure as hell wouldn't encourage it- but I'm a realist, it happens. Therefore it seems a damn sight better that a young girl who acted like young girls do gets the opportunity to access these services, rather than has an unwanted pregnancy.

Picking out the bit on bold if services has been available to me at the time i would have used them, Im a realist to, no amount of pushing things under the carpets will stop girls having sex or falling pregnant,

14 Apr 2008

From my experience as a trained person who was able to give out condoms to young people, any form of contraception/protection is not given out without:
a) disclosure of sexual activity - that can be any young person between 14 and 19 yrs old, although I have given condoms to one 12 year old to actually use (thats only in extreme circumstances).
b) they are given a talk on safe sex
c) talking to parents is discussed
d) given information on where to go for further help
e) encouraged not to engage in sexual activity until they are ready
f) that they do not have to bow to peer pressure
g) are given details of information sessions on safe sex, know where the sexual health bus stops, knows of other venues/organisations they can get condoms or further help.
h) And understand that this is all confidential, even if they are 12 yrs old. (Although in the case where I gave condoms out, I had another set of guidlines and proceedures that the y. person was told I needed to follow.)
There is more, but all this is basic proceedure for condoms and alternative contraceptions, excluding the MAP. I also had to account for my actions to Health Professionals and they were always on the end of a phone if I had a query on what to do and advise accordingly.
The Morning After Pill will also have a strict set of guidlines. I dont believe they would be given out willy nilly to all and sundry. Even if the particular school mentioned in one of the posts gave that impression. It didnt state ages either (I think?).
I look on it that its better to save one unwanted pregnancy than see a young person struggling to bring up a child or experience a termination. In the process they are given loads of information and given opporunities to attend or take part in sexual health education on an informal basis. Parents in this instance at the project I managed, were sent consent
forms home to be signed by them. If not signed by a consenting adult they werent allowed in! In these sessions MAP was discussed (if a Health Professional present - questions can be answered far better) but its always protection that is encouraged rather it get to that MAP stage.
Oh and its against the law for a female above 16 yrs old to engage in sexual intercourse with an under age person of whatever sex.... goes both ways!!! Ive dealt with it under child protection.
From all the work Ive done with young people, I do know sex is not going to stop...... but if they are armed with the right information and knowledge its hoped they wont ever need MAP, experience termination or an Sti's.
As a parent, I would have been ok with my children attending information sessions at school or elsewhere. I would have also been fine with them both being able to access C-Card Schemes if they had been around then. The added benefit as well for my children would have been to be able to talk to another adult who doesnt have an emotional attachment to them.
I suspect that workers will probably know more about the sexual health/activity of other peoples children than we as parents do. They disclose more to another adult in a safe environment.

14 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:

It is ok because it is the law. It came about because of that deluded woman Victoria Gillick's attempt to have it declared illegal to prescribe or advise her daughters on birth control before they reached 16. It is not condoning under age sex, it is addressing the fact that some children will engage in it, and helping to minimise the damage caused by unwanted pregnancy and the other possible results of unsafe sex.

Quote by kentswingers777
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:

Partly at least because some parents think that by not telling their children about sex they will somehow not find out it exists. The same parents then complain when the state tries to provide the information and support that they, as parents, should be providing.

14 Apr 2008

Quote by Unc

Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:

It is ok because it is the law. It came about because of that deluded woman Victoria Gillick's attempt to have it declared illegal to prescribe or advise her daughters on birth control before they reached 16. It is not condoning under age sex, it is addressing the fact that some children will engage in it, and helping to minimise the damage caused by unwanted pregnancy and the other possible results of unsafe sex.

Quote by kentswingers777
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:

Partly at least because some parents think that by not telling their children about sex they will somehow not find out it exists. The same parents then complain when the state tries to provide the information and support that they, as parents, should be providing.
Thats certainly true enough. Maybe if parents took a bit more time hands on, then maybe things may be better. But as in a lot of cases they think the schools should do the parenting things as well as teach! :shock:

15 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:
Kent, for a very intelligent person I cannot believe you are being so naive! Of course it is illegal, but what would you rather give a 15yr old girl... a condom or a pram??
It's not about condoning under age sex it's about taking responsibility. The 'C card' scheme (for which I'm actually trained in) is a very important scheme introduced not so long ago, it gives out free condoms and advice but only under strict guidelines (ie Fraser guidelines). If a 14/15 yr old is going to have sex they're going to do it regardless of what ANYONE tells them (believe me I know sad

) The scheme was actually introduced alongside outlets in schools to LOWER teenage pregnancy rates, and in fact these are getting lower, slowly.
The only way to lower teenage pregnancy rates is to offer help and advice, but you cannot stop them having sex.

15 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777

Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:

It is ok because it is the law. It came about because of that deluded woman Victoria Gillick's attempt to have it declared illegal to prescribe or advise her daughters on birth control before they reached 16. It is not condoning under age sex, it is addressing the fact that some children will engage in it, and helping to minimise the damage caused by unwanted pregnancy and the other possible results of unsafe sex.

Quote by kentswingers777
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:

Partly at least because some parents think that by not telling their children about sex they will somehow not find out it exists. The same parents then complain when the state tries to provide the information and support that they, as parents, should be providing.
Thats certainly true enough. Maybe if parents took a bit more time hands on, then maybe things may be better. But as in a lot of cases they think the schools should do the parenting things as well as teach! :shock:
mad

How bloody ignorant!
What about the parents that invested years worth of 'motherly' chats with their daughters, bought them books on puberty, enjoyed trips out to coffee bars to sit and talk about the importance of , the consequences and the realities. What about the mothers who told their daughters they could come to them for advice anytime and when they were of legal age offered to go with them to the doctors if they were ready to do so?
And what about the daughters that ignored all that and went ahead and had sex at the age of 15 anyway!..
What about doing us all a favour and STOP BLAMING THE PARENTS! mad

15 Apr 2008

Jaymar Wrote:

What about doing us all a favour and STOP BLAMING THE PARENTS!

breathe.....
remember, it's easy to see life in black & white until you've experienced grey.
kiss

15 Apr 2008

Quote by winchwench
Jaymar Wrote:

What about doing us all a favour and STOP BLAMING THE PARENTS!

breathe.....
remember, it's easy to see life in black & white until you've experienced grey.
kiss

I know darlin... :gagged: kiss

15 Apr 2008

Quote by jaymar

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:
Kent, for a very intelligent person I cannot believe you are being so naive! Of course it is illegal, but what would you rather give a 15yr old girl... a condom or a pram??
It's not about condoning under age sex it's about taking responsibility. The 'C card' scheme (for which I'm actually trained in) is a very important scheme introduced not so long ago, it gives out free condoms and advice but only under strict guidelines (ie Fraser guidelines). If a 14/15 yr old is going to have sex they're going to do it regardless of what ANYONE tells them (believe me I know sad

) The scheme was actually introduced alongside outlets in schools to LOWER teenage pregnancy rates, and in fact these are getting lower, slowly.
The only way to lower teenage pregnancy rates is to offer help and advice, but you cannot stop them having sex.
Oh well for such a naive person that you obviously think I am, I will keep quite. Other than to say am I naive or are you? I have my opinions and you have yours.

15 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:
Kent, for a very intelligent person I cannot believe you are being so naive! Of course it is illegal, but what would you rather give a 15yr old girl... a condom or a pram??
It's not about condoning under age sex it's about taking responsibility. The 'C card' scheme (for which I'm actually trained in) is a very important scheme introduced not so long ago, it gives out free condoms and advice but only under strict guidelines (ie Fraser guidelines). If a 14/15 yr old is going to have sex they're going to do it regardless of what ANYONE tells them (believe me I know sad

) The scheme was actually introduced alongside outlets in schools to LOWER teenage pregnancy rates, and in fact these are getting lower, slowly.
The only way to lower teenage pregnancy rates is to offer help and advice, but you cannot stop them having sex.
Oh well for such a naive person that you obviously think I am, I will keep quite. Other than to say am I naive or are you? I have my opinions and you have yours.
Utilising innovative projects developed by the TP Strategy such as the TIC TAC (Teenage Information/Advice) Bus and the C Card (Condom) scheme ‘Hot Spot’ areas are being successfully targeted. Through this work particularly ‘hard to reach’ and ‘at risk’ young people are being targeted effectively. Current data indicates that almost 5000 young people have now registered onto the C Card scheme – the average age is 16years and the gender split is 45% males, 55% females. Equally the TIC TAC Bus has been visited by approximately 4500 young people since it began in Nov 2005. Local PCT data regarding ward level conception rates to under 18’s suggests that these initiatives are contributing towards a reduction within the targeted areas. Currently the TIC TAC Bus operates over 4 x nights per week and targets 12 identified areas across the borough.
Not just opinion, fact wink

15 Apr 2008

Quote by jaymar

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:
Kent, for a very intelligent person I cannot believe you are being so naive! Of course it is illegal, but what would you rather give a 15yr old girl... a condom or a pram??
It's not about condoning under age sex it's about taking responsibility. The 'C card' scheme (for which I'm actually trained in) is a very important scheme introduced not so long ago, it gives out free condoms and advice but only under strict guidelines (ie Fraser guidelines). If a 14/15 yr old is going to have sex they're going to do it regardless of what ANYONE tells them (believe me I know sad

) The scheme was actually introduced alongside outlets in schools to LOWER teenage pregnancy rates, and in fact these are getting lower, slowly.
The only way to lower teenage pregnancy rates is to offer help and advice, but you cannot stop them having sex.
Oh well for such a naive person that you obviously think I am, I will keep quite. Other than to say am I naive or are you? I have my opinions and you have yours.
Utilising innovative projects developed by the TP Strategy such as the TIC TAC (Teenage Information/Advice) Bus and the C Card (Condom) scheme ‘Hot Spot’ areas are being successfully targeted. Through this work particularly ‘hard to reach’ and ‘at risk’ young people are being targeted effectively. Current data indicates that almost 5000 young people have now registered onto the C Card scheme – the average age is 16years and the gender split is 45% males, 55% females. Equally the TIC TAC Bus has been visited by approximately 4500 young people since it began in Nov 2005. Local PCT data regarding ward level conception rates to under 18’s suggests that these initiatives are contributing towards a reduction within the targeted areas. Currently the TIC TAC Bus operates over 4 x nights per week and targets 12 identified areas across the borough.
Not just opinion, fact wink

Also a fact Jaymar:
The debate on how best to tackle teenage pregnancy has arisen again as latest figures show the rate in under-16s in England and Wales has increased.
The government says it can do no more without the help of parents, while others are again calling for a broadening of sex and relationship education in schools.
The UK has the highest teenage birth rates in Western Europe - twice as high as in Germany, three times as high as in France and six times as high as in the Netherlands.
Why are the figures on the increase? They are official Government stats.
The ONS figures also show that the overall conception rate in under 18s remained virtually stable from 42,198 in 2004 to 42,187 in 2005.
But there has been a 4% rise in the number of under-16s falling pregnant - increasing from 7,615 pregnancies in 2004 to 7,917 in 2005.
Since 2004 it has risen again sharply.
There are no magic answers Jaymar, other than am sure we both agree it is a problem that does need to be tackled better than it is at the moment? wink

15 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
It is madness and the health and safety brigade have nothing better to do to occupy their time!

I think they spend most of their time looking at the hundreds of deaths and thousands of life changing injuries instead of the nonsense that is wrote in the papers of "Elf and safety" gone mad
What makes me giggle is the myths that are always printed. Like:
1) Banning conkers
2) Banning arm bands in swimming pools
3) Banning donkey derbies
4) Theatres having to lock up theatrical weapons
This has nothing to do with health and safety. This is to do with employers or employees being lazy to do things properly or volunteer groups not wanting to pay the insurance premiums.
To look at it sensibly. I have never heard of anybody being prosecuted or sued successfully after buying a piece of playground equipment that was fit for purpose, had been installed correctly, maintained properly and had the correct flooring for the height of the equipment. But I have heard of people getting "done" for buying in crap equipment, fitting it badly, not maintaining it and having broken concrete as the stop point for the kids when they fall off.
Dave_Notts

16 Apr 2008

Quote by kentswingers777

My point was that they can prescribe the pill without permission, but need permission for an asprin. From a parent. Sorry if my point was not that clear.
Am confused, how can a school that prescribes the morning after pill, IN a school, be an outlet? :shock: You said that you did not know of schools that did this, and I easily found one of many that do. Is is done without the parents permission, in a school building to under age girls! But they cannot get an asprin.

Any GP or authorised health professional, including a school nurse, can prescribe within the guidelines of their qualification. A school teacher cannot prescribe anything, unless they are also qualified and authorised. That this is happening in a school is irrelevant to the fact that it is an authorised health professional that is prescribing.
Regarding your obvious unhappiness that this happens without parental permission or even knowledge, it is legal and in my opinion justifiably so. From the Brook web site:
"Although it is an offence for a man to have sex with a girl under 16 (17 in Northern Ireland) it is lawful for doctors to provide contraceptive advice and treatment without parental consent providing certain criteria are met. These criteria, known as the Fraser Guidelines, were laid down by Lord Fraser in the House of Lords' case and require the professional to be satisfied that:
* the young person will understand the professional's advice;
* the young person cannot be persuaded to inform their parents;
* the young person is likely to begin, or to continue having, sexual intercourse with or without contraceptive treatment;
* unless the young person receives contraceptive treatment, their physical or mental health, or both, are likely to suffer;
* the young person's best interests require them to receive contraceptive advice or treatment with or without parental consent.
Although these criteria specifically refer to contraception, the principles are deemed to apply to other treatments, including abortion."
Maybe I have missed the boat somewhere but...is it not illegal to have sex UNDER the age of 16? If that is the case, and it is,how can it be ok to give an under age child the morning after pill? Seems like it is condoning under age sex. :shock:
Is it any wonder we have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the western world. I wonder why? :shock:
Kent, for a very intelligent person I cannot believe you are being so naive! Of course it is illegal, but what would you rather give a 15yr old girl... a condom or a pram??
It's not about condoning under age sex it's about taking responsibility. The 'C card' scheme (for which I'm actually trained in) is a very important scheme introduced not so long ago, it gives out free condoms and advice but only under strict guidelines (ie Fraser guidelines). If a 14/15 yr old is going to have sex they're going to do it regardless of what ANYONE tells them (believe me I know sad

) The scheme was actually introduced alongside outlets in schools to LOWER teenage pregnancy rates, and in fact these are getting lower, slowly.
The only way to lower teenage pregnancy rates is to offer help and advice, but you cannot stop them having sex.
Oh well for such a naive person that you obviously think I am, I will keep quite. Other than to say am I naive or are you? I have my opinions and you have yours.
Utilising innovative projects developed by the TP Strategy such as the TIC TAC (Teenage Information/Advice) Bus and the C Card (Condom) scheme ‘Hot Spot’ areas are being successfully targeted. Through this work particularly ‘hard to reach’ and ‘at risk’ young people are being targeted effectively. Current data indicates that almost 5000 young people have now registered onto the C Card scheme – the average age is 16years and the gender split is 45% males, 55% females. Equally the TIC TAC Bus has been visited by approximately 4500 young people since it began in Nov 2005. Local PCT data regarding ward level conception rates to under 18’s suggests that these initiatives are contributing towards a reduction within the targeted areas. Currently the TIC TAC Bus operates over 4 x nights per week and targets 12 identified areas across the borough.
Not just opinion, fact wink

Also a fact Jaymar:
The debate on how best to tackle teenage pregnancy has arisen again as latest figures show the rate in under-16s in England and Wales has increased.
The government says it can do no more without the help of parents, while others are again calling for a broadening of sex and relationship education in schools.
The UK has the highest teenage birth rates in Western Europe - twice as high as in Germany, three times as high as in France and six times as high as in the Netherlands.
Why are the figures on the increase? They are official Government stats.
The ONS figures also show that the overall conception rate in under 18s remained virtually stable from 42,198 in 2004 to 42,187 in 2005.
But there has been a 4% rise in the number of under-16s falling pregnant - increasing from 7,615 pregnancies in 2004 to 7,917 in 2005.
Since 2004 it has risen again sharply.
There are no magic answers Jaymar, other than am sure we both agree it is a problem that does need to be tackled better than it is at the moment? wink

Good bit of research :kick: but it's from 2005, mine is from 2006, ner ner flipa

We'll agree to disagree on this one, different opinions which both are entitled to and we ain't gonna fall out over it wink

I will maintain however, people are way to quick to assume it's the parents fault without knowing all the facts, now that's an end to my input on this one

16 Apr 2008

Good bit of research :kick: but it's from 2005, mine is from 2006, ner ner flipa

We'll agree to disagree on this one, different opinions which both are entitled to and we ain't gonna fall out over it wink

I will maintain however, people are way to quick to assume it's the parents fault without knowing all the facts, now that's an end to my input on this one
Jaymar we are both correct in our own ways, obviously both inteligent good looking people. lol

But I know it is one of your pet hates and from what I have read of your posts, you sound like a hard working, good parent that has gone over and above for your kids but.....In a lot of cases it IS the parents have 12 year olds round here out at gone course you cannot blame parents for everything but a lot of mrs777 kids friends parents, allow them to smoke in the house at 12 years of age, have NO set bedtime. One of the kids would not go to school and until the parents were starting to get fined £50 a go when she did not turn up, they did nothing to get her to go to school at 12 years of age. :shock: But of course a £50 fine seems to have done the trick, and the parents now make her go. The parent who allows all sorts of shananigans in her house like allowing them to smoke, no set bed times, really can do what they like, she is a primary school teacher! :shock: I would have thought in that job she would have had more boundaries.
There are never easy answers and of course kids will always want to do " adult " things, thats part of growing up but maybe they should have another hard look at the way they do things because with the highest underage pregnancies in Western Europe, things cannot be working surely? lol

16 Apr 2008

Kentswingers777 wrote:

Jaymar we are both correct in our own ways, obviously both inteligent good looking people.
But I know it is one of your pet hates and from what I have read of your posts, you sound like a hard working, good parent that has gone over and above for your kids but.....In a lot of cases it IS the parents have 12 year olds round here out at gone course you cannot blame parents for everything but a lot of mrs777 kids friends parents, allow them to smoke in the house at 12 years of age, have NO set bedtime. One of the kids would not go to school and until the parents were starting to get fined £50 a go when she did not turn up, they did nothing to get her to go to school at 12 years of age. :shock: But of course a £50 fine seems to have done the trick, and the parents now make her go. The parent who allows all sorts of shananigans in her house like allowing them to smoke, no set bed times, really can do what they like, she is a primary school teacher! :shock: I would have thought in that job she would have had more boundaries.
There are never easy answers and of course kids will always want to do " adult " things, thats part of growing up but maybe they should have another hard look at the way they do things because with the highest underage pregnancies in Western Europe, things cannot be working surely?

I do agree that there are some parents out there that could do with a degree of 'assitance' in bringing up their kids.
I just get riled when people quickly assume that it's the parents to blame for a lot of what kids are doing in the world.
I'm no fool and I acknowledge there are some out there that need a good foot up the derriere smile