Do you think swingers clubs should make sure they are accessable for disabled people ? I use a stick to walk, i have mobiltiy problems and pain when walking/moving and have had so for a few years, however the swingers club i go to (chams) isnt easy for disabled people to use, im not sure why swingers clubs dont have to comply with the same laws other plces have to (maybe they are classed as private clubs) but what do you think ?
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I think it is the 'private clubs' thing. But I have a feeling even they will fall under the rulings for Access and Disability Discrimination legislation eventually . And a darned good thing too. I doubt any club could offer full access to all areas - but at least to the open/bar areas, changing rooms/showers and a play room or two.
I have friends who are disabled (god that sounds condescending - please don't read it as such) and have played with more than one guy who had restricted mobility. It was no better or worse than playing with 'fully-mobile' guys. If anything it makes you think about what is happening more, and that's got to be a good thing.
On a side thought - I would imagine playing with a guy who was blind would be a fanstastic experience - as he would be fully connected to his tactile sensations.
I have friends who are disabled (god that sounds condescending - please don't read it as such) and have played with more than one guy who had restricted mobility. It was no better or worse than playing with 'fully-mobile' guys. If anything it makes you think about what is happening more, and that's got to be a good thing.
On a side thought - I would imagine playing with a guy who was blind would be a fanstastic experience - as he would be fully connected to his tactile sensations.
As stated to you in chat, what a club should do and what they end up doing (which for most is not a lot) is vastly different. I loathe the term disabled, it's so much of a tag to have hoisted around your neck. I dont see anyone as 'disabled' but simply broken, some fix up, some stay busted but they're still people, I'm married to a man that was until recently a happy go lucky, fit, active person who had more energy than anyone I've ever known, he jusr never stopped..that was until had had his accident and in just a few short days went from being as previously described to badly broken (in all ways) and since then I've seen things in a different light, not many cater for 'busted/broken people, it's been quite a learning curve.
I dont blame a business/premises for not making their business/premise user friendly to those classed as 'disabled' the cost of doing so seems prohibitive and for me personally if they dont and a 'disabled' person attempts to visit/do business with them but cannot due to their disability then they should simply move on and go elsewhere. My man has problems for all sorts of reasons, he can no longer visit some of his previous jaunts cos they can't cater for how he is right now but he just gets his head down and moves on. I guess this wont be to the liking of some but das how it is.
Sometimes there are just too many rules and regulations and even though business/premises should they comply with all the different rules/regs re disabled and stuff such as access for them.....would makes things easier for my man....well I don't mind (and neither does he) if they don't, we just adapt accordingly and move along (I recogise that some may not be so able to do this).
The swingers club we visit does not appear disabled friendly, there are no disabled toilet facilities, no ramps, no lifts, no wide aisles, no at anti-slip mats, no rails, no pull cords for lights,...feck all really and my man does find it a struggle when visiting (depending on how much morphine he's on and how bad he is at the time) but i don't blame them for it and we aint gonna slaughter them for it either.
Here is a rough guide and maybe a pointer as to why Private Clubs are maybe able to circumvent the system.
Essentially, the world doesnt owe him a living, neither does the state and neither do businesses, we;ll have fun somewhere, sometime with some people, we dont need a disabled ramp/stairs/ and all other such facilities to do so.
I dont blame a business/premises for not making their business/premise user friendly to those classed as 'disabled' the cost of doing so seems prohibitive and for me personally if they dont and a 'disabled' person attempts to visit/do business with them but cannot due to their disability then they should simply move on and go elsewhere. My man has problems for all sorts of reasons, he can no longer visit some of his previous jaunts cos they can't cater for how he is right now but he just gets his head down and moves on. I guess this wont be to the liking of some but das how it is.
Sometimes there are just too many rules and regulations and even though business/premises should they comply with all the different rules/regs re disabled and stuff such as access for them.....would makes things easier for my man....well I don't mind (and neither does he) if they don't, we just adapt accordingly and move along (I recogise that some may not be so able to do this).
The swingers club we visit does not appear disabled friendly, there are no disabled toilet facilities, no ramps, no lifts, no wide aisles, no at anti-slip mats, no rails, no pull cords for lights,...feck all really and my man does find it a struggle when visiting (depending on how much morphine he's on and how bad he is at the time) but i don't blame them for it and we aint gonna slaughter them for it either.
Here is a rough guide and maybe a pointer as to why Private Clubs are maybe able to circumvent the system.
Essentially, the world doesnt owe him a living, neither does the state and neither do businesses, we;ll have fun somewhere, sometime with some people, we dont need a disabled ramp/stairs/ and all other such facilities to do so.
Quote by nellie-mwgc=
Do you think swingers clubs should make sure they are accessable for disabled people ? I use a stick to walk, i have mobiltiy problems and pain when walking/moving and have had so for a few years, however the swingers club i go to (chams) isnt easy for disabled people to use, im not sure why swingers clubs dont have to comply with the same laws other plces have to (maybe they are classed as private clubs) but what do you think ?
It is very much the private clubs thing, as a Private Members Club not open to the public they do not have to provide the same level of facilities for the disabled.
That said, some clubs do, but it is not always easy, take Chameleons for example, there is no way the building can be altered to give wheelchair access, the staircases are simply not wide enough, doorways not wide enough, corridors not wide enough, the building is very old (at one time it was the ONLY building in the street and no others within half a mile)
Then there is another factor, like it or not some people are put off by seeing certain disabled people, for example severely disfigured bodies, or amputees, in Tesco or the local pub that doesn't really matter but in a group room at a club where everyone is naked it can.
Personally it would not bother me but that's me and club owners have to consider that factor if they want to stay in business.
Quote by MidsCouple24=
Do you think swingers clubs should make sure they are accessable for disabled people ? I use a stick to walk, i have mobiltiy problems and pain when walking/moving and have had so for a few years, however the swingers club i go to (chams) isnt easy for disabled people to use, im not sure why swingers clubs dont have to comply with the same laws other plces have to (maybe they are classed as private clubs) but what do you think ?
It is very much the private clubs thing, as a Private Members Club not open to the public they do not have to provide the same level of facilities for the disabled.
That said, some clubs do, but it is not always easy, take Chameleons for example, there is no way the building can be altered to give wheelchair access, the staircases are simply not wide enough, doorways not wide enough, corridors not wide enough, the building is very old (at one time it was the ONLY building in the street and no others within half a mile)
Then there is another factor, like it or not some people are put off by seeing certain disabled people, for example severely disfigured bodies, or amputees, in Tesco or the local pub that doesn't really matter but in a group room at a club where everyone is naked it can.
Personally it would not bother me but that's me and club owners have to consider that factor if they want to stay in business.
I am disabled, however unless you saw me recently you would never have known i am classed as disabled, i now use a stick to help me walk because i have problems with my joints and have problems with mobility. I have been chams many times although not much recently due to 2 reasons, one being that its difficult for me to get around it and two, i find it boring now
I can understand the points you make and the only reply i have to them is that if someone was put off by seeing a disabled person in a club naked or otherwise then they are not the type of person i would want to be around
However i am glad you say it wouldnt bother you and i hope many other people feel the same as you, otherwise i have a very sad and lonely life ahead of me simply because i have a disabilty !
I'm sorry....but the rules for any business be it a private club or not are the same. this was clearly shown when the smoking ban was introduced. private clubs thought they would be exempt...they soon found out they weren't. Any business must operate a policy of non descrimination, be that on the grounds of sex,colour, or disability.
The " disabled discrimination act " clearly states that anywhere an able bodied person has access to, a disabled person must also have access to. Yes this may well be difficult and expensive in exisiting buildings, but 75% grants are available if this is the case !!
I think it is very wrong that clubs discriminate, against disabled people in this way. They have the same right, to a little liberated fun, as the rest of us, surely !! Its the same as they way they descriminate against single guys by charging 4 times the cost, to get in . the fact is unless someone is willing to actually complain to the council, or building control about this, nothing will actually get done.
As for Midscouple comment....I am surprised. You quite rightly over in current affairs had a go, as another member called disabled people freaks. The fact the someone might not like a disabled person being naked around them, is thier problem and most certainly should never be taken into consideration.. People are not asking you to play with a disabled person, unless you want to..its your choice. But they have exactly the same right to be there, no matter what anyone else may think.
There was a time when Black and Asian people were discriminated against in this way. Thankfully that time has past. Surely it is time to welcome disabled people into clubs and not exclude them.
The " disabled discrimination act " clearly states that anywhere an able bodied person has access to, a disabled person must also have access to. Yes this may well be difficult and expensive in exisiting buildings, but 75% grants are available if this is the case !!
I think it is very wrong that clubs discriminate, against disabled people in this way. They have the same right, to a little liberated fun, as the rest of us, surely !! Its the same as they way they descriminate against single guys by charging 4 times the cost, to get in . the fact is unless someone is willing to actually complain to the council, or building control about this, nothing will actually get done.
As for Midscouple comment....I am surprised. You quite rightly over in current affairs had a go, as another member called disabled people freaks. The fact the someone might not like a disabled person being naked around them, is thier problem and most certainly should never be taken into consideration.. People are not asking you to play with a disabled person, unless you want to..its your choice. But they have exactly the same right to be there, no matter what anyone else may think.
There was a time when Black and Asian people were discriminated against in this way. Thankfully that time has past. Surely it is time to welcome disabled people into clubs and not exclude them.
I have to admit that i knew the law Dean but i was wondering if anyone else knew and what they feel/think about it and if anyone cared often the assumption is that private clubs are not covered by the law.
I have just completed some training for my job which covered laws about discrimination aswell as many other things, very interesting it was too although to be fair i did know a fair amount about it anyway due to my work.
I have been going chams for many years although not so often recently, i loved the place but now its just to difficult for me to get around even with my other half helping me to get up and down the stairs, in the jacuzzi etc.
I'm not knocking chams as i imagine other clubs are similar but i can only say about chams because thats where i have been, however i can compare other entertainment places such as sporting and live music venues as i go to them a lot. My local football club where i go to 99.9% of the matches, is brilliant at accomadating me when i asked for help, however a local motor sport venue was rubish and made me feel stupid, so i have stopped going. I have been to the millenium stadium and they were fantastic there :) Music venues are generally ok i just need to buy seated tickets rather than standing which is what i used to prefer but needs must :)
I supose the only way i personally can do anything about it is to ask chams although i cant see how they can alter their building much. Also complain to the authorites who make places comply to the law although that wont make me very popular lol
Thank you Dean, im glad at least one person knows the law.
often the assumption is that private clubs are not covered by the law.I have just completed some training for my job which covered laws about discrimination aswell as many other things, very interesting it was too although to be fair i did know a fair amount about it anyway due to my work.
I have been going chams for many years although not so often recently, i loved the place but now its just to difficult for me to get around even with my other half helping me to get up and down the stairs, in the jacuzzi etc.
I'm not knocking chams as i imagine other clubs are similar but i can only say about chams because thats where i have been, however i can compare other entertainment places such as sporting and live music venues as i go to them a lot. My local football club where i go to 99.9% of the matches, is brilliant at accomadating me when i asked for help, however a local motor sport venue was rubish and made me feel stupid, so i have stopped going. I have been to the millenium stadium and they were fantastic there :) Music venues are generally ok i just need to buy seated tickets rather than standing which is what i used to prefer but needs must :)
I supose the only way i personally can do anything about it is to ask chams although i cant see how they can alter their building much. Also complain to the authorites who make places comply to the law although that wont make me very popular lol
Thank you Dean, im glad at least one person knows the law.
Quote by deancannock
I'm sorry....but the rules for any business be it a private club or not are the same. this was clearly shown when the smoking ban was introduced. private clubs thought they would be exempt...they soon found out they weren't. Any business must operate a policy of non descrimination, be that on the grounds of sex,colour, or disability.
The " disabled discrimination act " clearly states that anywhere an able bodied person has access to, a disabled person must also have access to. Yes this may well be difficult and expensive in exisiting buildings, but 75% grants are available if this is the case !!
I think it is very wrong that clubs discriminate, against disabled people in this way. They have the same right, to a little liberated fun, as the rest of us, surely !! Its the same as they way they descriminate against single guys by charging 4 times the cost, to get in . the fact is unless someone is willing to actually complain to the council, or building control about this, nothing will actually get done.
As for Midscouple comment....I am surprised. You quite rightly over in current affairs had a go, as another member called disabled people freaks. The fact the someone might not like a disabled person being naked around them, is thier problem and most certainly should never be taken into consideration.. People are not asking you to play with a disabled person, unless you want to..its your choice. But they have exactly the same right to be there, no matter what anyone else may think.
There was a time when Black and Asian people were discriminated against in this way. Thankfully that time has past. Surely it is time to welcome disabled people into clubs and not exclude them.
The DDA you quote is no longer relevant, for the most part it's been replaced by the Equality Act, I cant remember the year, recent mind.
As for 'grants of 75%' for a Private Club? You sure about that?
Complaining to the council? Not the way forward, in the first instance if a 'disabled' person feels a Private Members Club has discriminated against them the first rule of thumb is for them to write to the club stating why they feel they've been discriminated against, I wonder how many swingers clubs have actually received such letter? Not satisfied with the club's response the next step may be court.
I don't think anyone would argue your point that a 'disabled' person has as much right as an anyone else to be at a club but sorry, if the costs to make the place friendly such as reasonable adjustments are prohibitive then I would not blame a business for not going down that route
As for welcoming disabled people into a club, I reckon most swingers club owners/staff would (and do) welcome a disabled person in, even offer to help them gain entrance (if upstairs etc) but that's about where it would stop, taking someone to the bathroom, helping them up off a couch after they've gotten all durty, pointing them to the 'private room specifically catering for 'disabled' (you know the one, hand rails around the edge, ramp up to the couch, a pull cord for emergencies' etc etc, it's just not going to happen anytime soon.
It isn't 'about time to welcome disabled people into a club' methinks all/anyone has always been welcome, it's more than likely more just a question of design/funding/practicality/ and sos like and in the current economic climate we're in I doubt many/any clubs have the ability to make the required adjustments.
BTW, If a club doesn't cater for disabled and as such is not 'welcoming' to a disabled person(s) would you continue to visit it? or would you vote with your feet and not frequent the joint?
Toots it is law, whether or not the club is private, they have to make all resonable adjustments to the club to make it accessable for disabled people of all kinds and they can be prosectuted for not doing so .... however i am not going to ask chams to do that for me because i would not feel comfortable going there after that.
I could copy/paste links but there are easy enough to find if you use google.
I could copy/paste links but there are easy enough to find if you use google.
Toots,
Risk assesment, is what I do for a living. As part of that, I have to inspect buildings and tell them where they are or not complying with regulations. So the answer is NO, private clubs are not exempt. Any business with 5 or more people in the building, then they have to comply. And yes..there is a government grant for up to 75% of the work for them to apply for. It is not assured they would get it or the full 75%, but that it is up to them to put their case to the board. No one wants a business to be put into a situation that they simply can not afford.
The reason I mentioned the local authority, is if a complaint is made, it would be upto the local building control department, to send an inspector to the building, to asses what adaptations that would be required. It can then serve notice that the work must be undertaken. It would under normal circumstances give a 6 month period, for the work to be undertaken. So long as it see's you are starting the adaptations it would extend this date, by another 6 months if not completed.
Simply, I just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled.
Risk assesment, is what I do for a living. As part of that, I have to inspect buildings and tell them where they are or not complying with regulations. So the answer is NO, private clubs are not exempt. Any business with 5 or more people in the building, then they have to comply. And yes..there is a government grant for up to 75% of the work for them to apply for. It is not assured they would get it or the full 75%, but that it is up to them to put their case to the board. No one wants a business to be put into a situation that they simply can not afford.
The reason I mentioned the local authority, is if a complaint is made, it would be upto the local building control department, to send an inspector to the building, to asses what adaptations that would be required. It can then serve notice that the work must be undertaken. It would under normal circumstances give a 6 month period, for the work to be undertaken. So long as it see's you are starting the adaptations it would extend this date, by another 6 months if not completed.
Simply, I just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled.
Nellie: I thought you said in an earlier post that you don't do Chams cos it's boring? but in any case if you want all that a 'disabled' person is entitled to by way of adaptations a swinger why not in the first instance write to the club you may want to visit?
Dean: You say ' Simply, I just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled.'
and as previously stated I don't think many would disagree but it just aint gonna happen any time soon and I seriously doubt many (if any) businesses are fully compliant with the DDA/Equality act.
I do not see an established swingers club getting anywhere close to conforming with the absolute plethora of rules/regs/law where providing facilities for the disabled are concerned, some scenarios are just beyond the pale (but still have to be catered for) such as access for a Guide Dog? In a swingers club? (It's nose would never be off the floor) , lifts, easy to open doors at reasonable heights, brochures provided for the varying services available within the club, level access or if not ramps to each and every nook and cranny, corridors kept clear for wheelchair access, toilet facilities, large signs, trained staff, car parking? lighting, and on and on and bloomin on.
There is just too much gobbledygook where providing for disabled is concerned, the country has gorn mad with it all, just as an example, how many times have you driven to a supermarket to find yourself driving up and down the car park for a spot to park at the same time as observing the huge amount of Disabled Spots going empty? Ahh but the supermarkets have to comply with the Human Rights Act/ Equality Act but do they? I doubt they're 100% compliant.
Even the Olympic organisers fell foul of the Equality Ac
Anyway Dean back to your point as quoted above and again nowI just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled. but would you visit the same 'offending' club or would you decide against it? In other words do you feel strongly about the rights of the disabled or are you simply an armchair critic?
PS: I'm married to a man who until very recently was active/able bodied but who is now busted (disabled) through no fault of his own and as stated before it's been a learning curve but for me personally the disabled are pandered too much by society but in reality and when you think about it it aint actually society is it, it's the usual do-gooders/ govt ministers and those wanting to make mountains from mole hills.
Of course disabled people should be allowed to enjoy the same facilities as anyone else but at whose expense? and would it really be that bad to think ' nope, no access here, lets move along' without reaching for the pen/complaint form/risk assessment officer?
Dean: You say ' Simply, I just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled.'
and as previously stated I don't think many would disagree but it just aint gonna happen any time soon and I seriously doubt many (if any) businesses are fully compliant with the DDA/Equality act.
I do not see an established swingers club getting anywhere close to conforming with the absolute plethora of rules/regs/law where providing facilities for the disabled are concerned, some scenarios are just beyond the pale (but still have to be catered for) such as access for a Guide Dog? In a swingers club? (It's nose would never be off the floor) , lifts, easy to open doors at reasonable heights, brochures provided for the varying services available within the club, level access or if not ramps to each and every nook and cranny, corridors kept clear for wheelchair access, toilet facilities, large signs, trained staff, car parking? lighting, and on and on and bloomin on.
There is just too much gobbledygook where providing for disabled is concerned, the country has gorn mad with it all, just as an example, how many times have you driven to a supermarket to find yourself driving up and down the car park for a spot to park at the same time as observing the huge amount of Disabled Spots going empty? Ahh but the supermarkets have to comply with the Human Rights Act/ Equality Act but do they? I doubt they're 100% compliant.
Even the Olympic organisers fell foul of the Equality Ac
Anyway Dean back to your point as quoted above and again nowI just don't think it is right that a person is excluded from visiting and enjoying liberated fun that can be had at a club, simply because they are disabled. but would you visit the same 'offending' club or would you decide against it? In other words do you feel strongly about the rights of the disabled or are you simply an armchair critic?
PS: I'm married to a man who until very recently was active/able bodied but who is now busted (disabled) through no fault of his own and as stated before it's been a learning curve but for me personally the disabled are pandered too much by society but in reality and when you think about it it aint actually society is it, it's the usual do-gooders/ govt ministers and those wanting to make mountains from mole hills.
Of course disabled people should be allowed to enjoy the same facilities as anyone else but at whose expense? and would it really be that bad to think ' nope, no access here, lets move along' without reaching for the pen/complaint form/risk assessment officer?
Quote by deancannock
I'm sorry....but the rules for any business be it a private club or not are the same. this was clearly shown when the smoking ban was introduced. private clubs thought they would be exempt...they soon found out they weren't. Any business must operate a policy of non descrimination, be that on the grounds of sex,colour, or disability.
The " disabled discrimination act " clearly states that anywhere an able bodied person has access to, a disabled person must also have access to. Yes this may well be difficult and expensive in exisiting buildings, but 75% grants are available if this is the case !!
I think it is very wrong that clubs discriminate, against disabled people in this way. They have the same right, to a little liberated fun, as the rest of us, surely !! Its the same as they way they descriminate against single guys by charging 4 times the cost, to get in . the fact is unless someone is willing to actually complain to the council, or building control about this, nothing will actually get done.
As for Midscouple comment....I am surprised. You quite rightly over in current affairs had a go, as another member called disabled people freaks. The fact the someone might not like a disabled person being naked around them, is thier problem and most certainly should never be taken into consideration.. People are not asking you to play with a disabled person, unless you want to..its your choice. But they have exactly the same right to be there, no matter what anyone else may think.
The laws may have changed regarding private clubs, it is a long time since I looked at those rules in fact it was just before the rules were implemented for the first time.
I don't know why your surprised at my comment, I made it clear that it was not my opinion but that of some club owners, my own business caters exclusively to swingers and if you look at our website there is a page dedicated to showing what facilities we have installed in order to allow access to disabled guests (we own a guest house open exclusively to people visiting local swingers clubs) we have a ramp for wheelchair access and downstairs bedrooms and bathroom facilities.
There was a time when Black and Asian people were discriminated against in this way. Thankfully that time has past. Surely it is time to welcome disabled people into clubs and not exclude them.
Quote by deancannock
I'm sorry....but the rules for any business be it a private club or not are the same. this was clearly shown when the smoking ban was introduced. private clubs thought they would be exempt...they soon found out they weren't. Any business must operate a policy of non descrimination, be that on the grounds of sex,colour, or disability.
The " disabled discrimination act " clearly states that anywhere an able bodied person has access to, a disabled person must also have access to. Yes this may well be difficult and expensive in exisiting buildings, but 75% grants are available if this is the case !!
I think it is very wrong that clubs discriminate, against disabled people in this way. They have the same right, to a little liberated fun, as the rest of us, surely !! Its the same as they way they descriminate against single guys by charging 4 times the cost, to get in . the fact is unless someone is willing to actually complain to the council, or building control about this, nothing will actually get done.
I am all for that providing that person takes a look at all forms of discrimination, for example, my hair is longer than my partners, but as a female she has to pay up to 4 times the fee I pay for a cut and blow dry in the same unisex salon.
Many Nightclubs have reduced entry prices or reduced bar prices for females than for men
Pensioners on higher incomes than me get discounts on many things
Womens clothing is usually dearer than mens clothing on a like for like basis such as a pair of jeans
Insurance companies are permitted to have preferential rates based on age and sex
TV licences are free for MPs
Chain shops charge more for the same goods in certain postcodes and that includes areas of Manchester not just down South where overheads are considerably higher
Women get cheaper entry into clubs than single men AND couples
Not all clubs overcharge single men, at the club we use the most single men get Free life membership the same as couples and though the entry fee for them is double that of singles it is still only £30 for them, part of this reasoning is of course to entice couples to go when singles are there, a club with no couples is no good to guys on thier own at any price, and the club also knows that 2 people ie a couple will spend more on drinks than a single person so they hope to re-coup the discount at the for Midscouple comment....I am surprised. You quite rightly over in current affairs had a go, as another member called disabled people freaks. The fact the someone might not like a disabled person being naked around them, is thier problem and most certainly should never be taken into consideration.. People are not asking you to play with a disabled person, unless you want to..its your choice. But they have exactly the same right to be there, no matter what anyone else may think.
There was a time when Black and Asian people were discriminated against in this way. Thankfully that time has past. Surely it is time to welcome disabled people into clubs and not exclude them.
Toots yes i did say i find chams boring now and thats partly because i can't get around it so am usually stuck in one place, the stairs are a nightmare for me, if i was able to get up and down the stairs and into the jacuzzis easier than i wouldnt be so bored.
I wouldn't ask them to alter it to make it easier for disabled people because i wouldn't then feel comfortable going, i have experienced animosity in places when i have asked for changes to be made to accomadate people with limited mobility.
I personally don't force anywhere to alter nor have i complained to the authorites about them, on the occasions when i have asked places to help me such as access to a seat without stairs to it, the places that have helped me still have my custom but i no longer go to places that havn't helped me (mainly because i can't get in) ... none of the help has cost the venues any money.
I wouldn't ask them to alter it to make it easier for disabled people because i wouldn't then feel comfortable going, i have experienced animosity in places when i have asked for changes to be made to accomadate people with limited mobility.
I personally don't force anywhere to alter nor have i complained to the authorites about them, on the occasions when i have asked places to help me such as access to a seat without stairs to it, the places that have helped me still have my custom but i no longer go to places that havn't helped me (mainly because i can't get in) ... none of the help has cost the venues any money.
Quote by nellie-mwgc
Toots yes i did say i find chams boring now and thats partly because i can't get around it so am usually stuck in one place, the stairs are a nightmare for me, if i was able to get up and down the stairs and into the jacuzzis easier than i wouldnt be so bored.
I wouldn't ask them to alter it to make it easier for disabled people because i wouldn't then feel comfortable going, i have experienced animosity in places when i have asked for changes to be made to accomadate people with limited mobility.
I personally don't force anywhere to alter nor have i complained to the authorites about them, on the occasions when i have asked places to help me such as access to a seat without stairs to it, the places that have helped me still have my custom but i no longer go to places that havn't helped me (mainly because i can't get in) ... none of the help has cost the venues any money.
I would hazard a guess and say that people/businesses are worried when physically helping busted (disabled) ppl around their premises, they drop a person, make a sudden move and cause an injury then it's Health& Safety, Insurance and possible claims, it could all go a bit pete tong.
You have a right to ask people to consider making changes, but at Chameleons (and i confess to not having visited the place) it would seem (reading a post further up the thread) that those 'changes' may run into many thousands of pounds, I guess some would forego your patronage rather than spend oodles amounts of money making the place shaghappy for what would probably me quite a small minority.
Sex God
It may be worth mentioning that the Attic in Derby has a small cinema and jacuzzi on the ground floor.
It would be great to see accessibility comments on the clubs review page.
It would be wonderful to be able to design/build a made to measure swinger's club. Maybe there is a market for a Swinging Sims game. :giggle:
It would be great to see accessibility comments on the clubs review page.
It would be wonderful to be able to design/build a made to measure swinger's club. Maybe there is a market for a Swinging Sims game. :giggle:
I think there's more "discrimination" in every day life, never mind accessibility to Swinging Clubs.
All the health and safety rules, planning regulations...... blah blah can be qouted, but it really boils down to enforcement.
I posted a comment in the following thread:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopicpage/406953/140.html
which was:
" Most if not all the athlete's who participated could put some of us more able bodied people to shame with their strength and determination"
Law is Law and should apply across all spectrums.
I greet everyone I meet on the street, everyone I chat to in the chatroom eqaully irrespective of how they look and their preferences.
We're all equal here - we only get one chance on this planet.
Paddy x
All the health and safety rules, planning regulations...... blah blah can be qouted, but it really boils down to enforcement.
I posted a comment in the following thread:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopicpage/406953/140.html
which was:
" Most if not all the athlete's who participated could put some of us more able bodied people to shame with their strength and determination"
Law is Law and should apply across all spectrums.
I greet everyone I meet on the street, everyone I chat to in the chatroom eqaully irrespective of how they look and their preferences.
We're all equal here - we only get one chance on this planet.
Paddy x
Quote by Paddy
I think there's more "discrimination" in every day life, never mind accessibility to Swinging Clubs.
All the health and safety rules, planning regulations...... blah blah can be qouted, but it really boils down to enforcement.
I posted a comment in the following thread:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopicpage/406953/140.html
which was:
" Most if not all the athlete's who participated could put some of us more able bodied people to shame with their strength and determination"
Law is Law and should apply across all spectrums.
I greet everyone I meet on the street, everyone I chat to in the chatroom eqaully irrespective of how they look and their preferences.
We're all equal here - we only get one chance on this planet.
Paddy x
Very true Paddy x
