First and foremost, I want to start by saying this is not a witch hunt on "free" long term members that have access to the whole site for free, this is not to insult, it is more to question the fairness of the site and its fees. I know I will upset a fair few of the "free" members, but step out of the box and think of it from a payers' perspective, would you be happy? Please bear in mind it is not personal. It is understood that free membership was promised when the site was sold, these people did support the site and gain its popularity, but times have changed and so has the site. I have been a paying member for years on and off, both as a couple and as a single, I like to feel that I too, like many others, have contributed equally. I have enjoyed SH and did count it as the best site, never previously quibbled on the price but now with the new price increase I find the unfairness hard to swallow. All the recent improvements and investments in the site are having to be paid for by the paying members... Paying members pay more while free members stay free? As has been said by admin; 10 full time Staff salaries. £80,000 in new IT hardware. Higher costs incurred for hosting. Vat increases. Higher legal costs. Overall sundry and running costs. Etc... Do free members not use this new service? Do they not use the £80,000 servers? Do SH staff not help and aide free members? Do free members not use the hosting services for chat and cams? We have Payers and Non-payers; The free long term members pay nothing towards these improvements but get all the benefits of the services that paying members are funding. The price increases could be understood if it was fair, but you have a two teir membership here! Would it not be more logical and fair if the costs were spread across all members? If everyone paid their bit then the overall membership cost and increases per profile would be cheaper/less. It may be argued (I don't know the numbers on how many free members there are) that scrapping free membership would make no difference at all, but at least the site would be seen to be fair to all its members, which it certainly is not at the moment. It is quite understood that SH is a business and nothing comes free (well not to most of us). The price rises are there to cover the extra costs, the services, the improvements and investments that the free members use alongside the paying. With membership cost increases in mind what is the opinion of paying members? Do we subsidise the non paying free members? Why does the site not make this a fair site? Spread the cost to every member, we all use the same service! Anyone else have thoughts and opinions on this? Play nice though! xxxxx
Quote by essex34m I have nothing to say. I looked at your pics before I formed my reply to your post. Sorry.
Blimey... I did too! hwoar: :phwoar: :phwoar: I don't really feel that I can comment on this but I have to say... that wet t-shirt... hubba hubba!! :rascal:
Its a tricky one I guess. We too know people that have the FREE accounts but from what I gather, this is because this is how they signed up originally. There is probably a legal reason that these people cannot be charged if they joined under a 'free membership' agreement. Have got to say that our membership is due to run out soon and we're seriously going to have to consider whether we pay the higher price or switch sites. We prefer SH and having used a couple of others, this is by far the easiest and friendliest to use. The improvements recently have been fantastic and show that the powers that be have listened to their customer and reacted accordingly. Well done to all involved. Did think once, after reading few posts about inactive/low frequency users on site that perhaps a 'loyalty scheme' would be a nice idea. Those that use the site most and make it the success it is, should get discounted rates? Perhaps link it in with log on's, shrep feedback, forum posts etc etc. Just an idea We'll be sorry to have to leave but times as they are , gotta watch the pennies and if someone is doing similar for free or cheaper, its going to get a look in we're afraid. x
Quote by Dirtygirly I have nothing to say. I looked at your pics before I formed my reply to your post. Sorry.
Blimey... I did too! hwoar: :phwoar: :phwoar: I don't really feel that I can comment on this but I have to say... that wet t-shirt... hubba hubba!! :rascal: Preach it sistah!
Ok ok should I just hide my pictures for the night? I feel like one of those women that only gets her tits spoke to ... :grin: But thank you essex & dirty xxxx
Quote by Aurora_female Ok ok should I just hide my pictures for the night? I feel like one of those women that only gets her tits spoke to ... :grin: But thank you essex & dirty xxxx
I could always stand behind you, sniffing your hair.
I think its the nature of success, capitalism etc. those in at the start reap the benefits. check out any thriving business or industry and the same set of things apply. sometimes the idea of a share out works, fat bankers may forego their bonuses, set up charities etc. but i think most of the old members would just stop using the site if they had to pay. but i think its an example of how the internet seems to promise a lot but somehow just makes you pay for your own beliefs.
Quote by space_cowboy Its a tricky one I guess. We too know people that have the FREE accounts but from what I gather, this is because this is how they signed up originally. There is probably a legal reason that these people cannot be charged if they joined under a 'free membership' agreement. x
Surely the site did not legally bind itself to a lifetime of free membership? It would be interesting to know...
Quote by space_cowboy Have got to say that our membership is due to run out soon and we're seriously going to have to consider whether we pay the higher price or switch sites. We prefer SH and having used a couple of others, this is by far the easiest and friendliest to use. We'll be sorry to have to leave but times as they are , gotta watch the pennies and if someone is doing similar for free or cheaper, its going to get a look in we're afraid. x
Me too, I can honestly say, I love this site but the expense and a two teir system is first and foremost x
Quote by Aurora_female We have Payers and Non-payers; The free long term members pay nothing towards these improvements but get all the benefits of the services that paying members are funding. The price increases could be understood if it was fair, but you have a two teir membership here!
I'll 'fess up to being a "free" member here. But this is not an untypical business model. Shoppers in supermarkets who do their shopping in person are subsidizing those who do it online and have it delivered, without questioning the "fairness" of it. Just a thought
Quote by Aurora_female Its a tricky one I guess. We too know people that have the FREE accounts but from what I gather, this is because this is how they signed up originally. There is probably a legal reason that these people cannot be charged if they joined under a 'free membership' agreement. x
Surely the site did not legally bind itself to a lifetime of free membership? It would be interesting to know... I was a paying member when I joined SH but I think that it was a goodwill gesture when the site was taken over. To go back on that now, to me, would be bad form.
Quote by samson63 I'll 'fess up to being a "free" member here. But this is not an untypical business model. Shoppers in supermarkets who do their shopping in person are subsidizing those who do it online and have it delivered, without questioning the "fairness" of it. Just a thought
They do pay a delivery charge though and don't always get the "in shop" reductions on the shelf (ok not many of them these days lol). Lizaleanrob above suggested maybe paying for Extra's, rather than being optional i'd make it the "free" members new fee, ok so not exactly the full membership fee, but it would be a start. If I was a free member, no I'd be digging my heels in and wouldn't want to pay anything so I understand where they are coming from, but SH prides itself on being an open, fair & accepting community .... It's lacking on the fee structure.
It's a really nice thought but I dont think that the powers that be in SH Towers woudl consider it at all. Asking for a contribution from the free members would mean a loss of many of those members and there are a lot of them!! Fewer members mean that they couldnt advertise that they have over a million which drags in more gullible people. The fact that sooooo many of those million members have inactive profiles counts for nothing. They should consider that lots of paying members are becoming a little bitter about the pay increases (together with lack of services each time the site is down). Would it be better to loose the people who pay to renew every year or the people who get it free??
I only have one thing to say. The free members were here when every paying member joined. Take a look at what you decide to pay for and then if you decide thats unfair dont join up. Why join up then moan about what was already in place well before you joined I guess some will plead ignorance but thats just a good lesson to look harder at what you buy into. I dont believe Admin are bound to leave us as free members its only a gentlemans agreement as it were. Though I'll say as I did in the other thread I wont be paying when there are other free sites out there. If all the sites were pay sites I would look at which was best and then decide but that isn't the case so would stick with a free one.
Quote by tweeky I only have one thing to say. The free members were here when every paying member joined. Take a look at what you decide to pay for and then if you decide thats unfair dont join up. Why join up then moan about what was already in place well before you joined I guess some will plead ignorance but thats just a good lesson to look harder at what you buy into. I dont believe Admin are bound to leave us as free members its only a gentlemans agreement as it were. Though I'll say as I did in the other thread I wont be paying when there are other free sites out there. If all the sites were pay sites I would look at which was best and then decide but that isn't the case so would stick with a free one.
Yes I was aware of the free membership when I joined some years ago just after the change over and have never complained over it before, so will not plead ignorance. But when the site hikes up prices again and tells us it is for this and that, yet still there are free members, yes I will complain when we are all using the new services together, why should just some of us pay a newer site and others don't. As said before it is not a witch hunt against the free members and it should not be down to "if you decide that's unfair don't join up" This should be a fairly run site to reflect the new modern site that we now have. Even a lower fee for previous "free" members would be fair, but to make some pay for all of and any improvements is just wrong in my opinion.
Quote by Funlovers2009 It's a really nice thought but I dont think that the powers that be in SH Towers woudl consider it at all. Asking for a contribution from the free members would mean a loss of many of those members and there are a lot of them!! Fewer members mean that they couldnt advertise that they have over a million which drags in more gullible people. The fact that sooooo many of those million members have inactive profiles counts for nothing. They should consider that lots of paying members are becoming a little bitter about the pay increases (together with lack of services each time the site is down). Would it be better to loose the people who pay to renew every year or the people who get it free??
Quote by Aurora_female It's a really nice thought but I dont think that the powers that be in SH Towers woudl consider it at all. Asking for a contribution from the free members would mean a loss of many of those members and there are a lot of them!! Fewer members mean that they couldnt advertise that they have over a million which drags in more gullible people. The fact that sooooo many of those million members have inactive profiles counts for nothing. They should consider that lots of paying members are becoming a little bitter about the pay increases (together with lack of services each time the site is down). Would it be better to loose the people who pay to renew every year or the people who get it free??
Now that is a very valid point fun!!! Hey I'm not just a pretty face babe!!!
Quote by Aurora_female Yes I was aware of the free membership when I joined some years ago just after the change over and have never complained over it before, so will not plead ignorance. But when the site hikes up prices again and tells us it is for this and that, yet still there are free members, yes I will complain when we are all using the new services together, why should just some of us pay a newer site and others don't. As said before it is not a witch hunt against the free members and it should not be down to "if you decide that's unfair don't join up" This should be a fairly run site to reflect the new modern site that we now have. Even a lower fee for previous "free" members would be fair, but to make some pay for all of and any improvements is just wrong in my opinion.
Though again this is all known when you join. You knew there were free members and would continue to be so, there was never any suggestion of free members being cut out of standard site developments. You joined a site full of free members fully aware of their existence and then want it changed
Yes I was aware of the free membership when I joined some years ago just after the change over and have never complained over it before, so will not plead ignorance. But when the site hikes up prices again and tells us it is for this and that, yet still there are free members, yes I will complain when we are all using the new services together, why should just some of us pay a newer site and others don't. As said before it is not a witch hunt against the free members and it should not be down to "if you decide that's unfair don't join up" This should be a fairly run site to reflect the new modern site that we now have. Even a lower fee for previous "free" members would be fair, but to make some pay for all of and any improvements is just wrong in my opinion.
Though again this is all known when you join. You knew there were free members and would continue to be so, there was never any suggestion of free members being cut out of standard site developments. You joined a site full of free members fully aware of their existence and then want it changed As the site and the fees change yes lol
We would be classed as a free member, but we pay for extras at the moment, and have in the past paid for a second profile just so that we could both chat in the chat room. At the end of the day the new site owners agreed to never charge the original site members, and so if this was part of the contract of sale they are tied to it, and only by gaining the permission of all the "free members" would this be able to be changed. As you said the numbers of free members would not really have any effect on the site fees – and would probably in effect only knock a pound off if that. What would have an effect on the pricing would be suitably discrete advertising, charging people for advertising commercial events. Maybe some efficiency savings need to be made – losing some of the sites lesser used functions and further advances in the sites features – fixing the searches so they actually work and aren’t clogged with defunct unused profiles. Perhaps adding a feature which I believe was considered but never added was allowing couples to log in separately but using the same profile would have a positive effect on the site. It could also possibly be better then that shrek rubbish for proving that couples are genuine. It would enable both to chat at the same time and be able to cam together without it costing them the price of two logins - something which scares some people off, not just having to pay double! One other thing that would help is scrapping this multi-room rubbish which just allows cam voyeurs to clog up rooms stopping people from chatting and grouping together to talk ad arrange meets. Localised rooms or rooms for specific meet types etc are often full of people sat there not chatting but viewing and wanking over the cams. This would happen on any sex site, but its worse on here recently as they can sit in as many rooms as they want to have access to extra cams. It is partially responsible for people leaving as you cant really chat properly anymore. maybe there are better free dedicated swingers sites out there but i'd like to think that the thing that still sets this site aside from the others are the socials but as someone pointed out in another thread these are now advertised on the other sites and on things like facebook twitter and msn. Does it not seem strange to people that if there are 1.5 million members and they were all charged £2 a month that’s £3million a month over 12 months = £36million. Back in December 2005 there were only 345000 members. Assuming that they are all still active which I doubt we would need to take £8,280,000 meaning there would still be an approximate total of £27million made from fees at £2 a month…now charging all the odd full paying members paying £70 a year should make approximately £77million a year. That should more then cover the 10 full time members of staff plus the 2 full time people took on to work the chat rooms wages (even if they picked up a million a year each) and the £80,000 worth of new dell equipment madmax told us about in the other thread and have a cool profit on top. The fact is there is no-where near that amount of active members, but all that memory space is being clogged up by defunct profiles, pictures upon pictures that are no longer valid for the original purpose of the site... SWINGING! Maybe the unused profiles should come off the membership figures after being inactive for two months so we can all see exactly how many people are on here? The fact is the profiles wont be deleted and nor will the pictures, which means extra hardware needed to store and hold them all. The reason being is that this is where the majority of the sites revenue probably comes from. This site has not been a swinger’s site for a long time now. It’s an amalgamation of porn, adult fun, and voyeurism. There are more people on this site that want to use it for wanking over pictures, videos and live cams in the chat rooms then there are genuine swingers. The claims that we have designated coders and designers for the site don’t really wash... if you go on the symbios site the have a project called faces which from the screenshot on there looks like a very, very similar user interface to here - so either the money claimed to have been spent on redesigning this site shouldn't have been because its cloned from the faces, or perhaps some of the revenue from there should be taken to pay our coders wages as they've done all the work for that site too lol. I’ve no idea what the solution is but perhaps its about time the site owners should place a mandatory questionnaire on everyone’s profile which they have to complete when they login otherwise they cant access the site. This could be used to ascertain what features are used, how much people would be willing to pay, which features are most popular, most flawed and need to be improved so that any money spent can be directed where its needed most…
Two-4, I agree with most of what you have said there and there is no straight answer I agree, but SH really do need to sit up and listen to its members, paying or free...
well hopefully SH will listen to me aswell then im one of the "free" members when i joined it was free and when it altered we were all told we would be given free membership and i cant see how they can change that contract with me and make me pay ! if by some devious ploy they said id have to start paying then im not sure id stay cus i dont use the site enough to think its worth paying for especially when im also on a free site that has mostly the same members and socials etc as here ! my other half also has a "free" profile here and i know for sure he wouldnt pay for one cus he wouldnt be able to afford it ! so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members :)
Quote by Danne well hopefully SH will listen to me aswell then im one of the "free" members when i joined it was free and when it altered we were all told we would be given free membership and i cant see how they can change that contract with me and make me pay ! if by some devious ploy they said id have to start paying then im not sure id stay cus i dont use the site enough to think its worth paying for especially when im also on a free site that has mostly the same members and socials etc as here ! my other half also has a "free" profile here and i know for sure he wouldnt pay for one cus he wouldnt be able to afford it ! so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members :)
Just to point out - we're not really "disgruntled paying members" - what was agreed then should stand now, thats only fair be it a contract or gentlemens agreement. Do like some of two-4-mores suggestions though especially the couple member one as that would save us a bit of money as we do like to have a chat together and not have to share the laptop. Perhaps we could wash dishes or make tea at SH HQ for a bit of a discount ;)
so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members
But we are in the wrong here apparently...... No not at all essex It is the site in the wrong for not treating it's members fairly, yes free membership is all well and good but when things inflate and others have to pay for it ....
so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members
But we are in the wrong here apparently...... No not at all essex It is the site in the wrong for not treating it's members fairly, yes free membership is all well and good but when things inflate and others have to pay for it .... I can understand all the points you are making, but lets put the boot on the other foot. Say you were one of the free members, would your sense of fairness remain?
Quote by Aurora_female No not at all essex It is the site in the wrong for not treating it's members fairly, yes free membership is all well and good but when things inflate and others have to pay for it ....
does that mean that because someone has a life time fixed rate 2.5% mortgage and rates go up to 6% that their rate should go up to 6% too dispite them having the fixed rate prior to it... just food for thought lol
so i hope SH listen to me and gary aswell as the disgruntled paying members
But we are in the wrong here apparently...... No not at all essex It is the site in the wrong for not treating it's members fairly, yes free membership is all well and good but when things inflate and others have to pay for it .... I can understand all the points you are making, but lets put the boot on the other foot. Say you were one of the free members, would your sense of fairness remain? As I said earlier, Id be digging my heels in, I'd not want to pay either so totally understand, but when the agreement was made us paying members were not specifically told either that we would be paying for a total site overall with all the trimmings but still "free" members could get all that free and not have to pay for any increases or new overhaul and yes, u paying members will pick up the tab. Its unfair both sides essex i know x
Swinging Heaven features sexually explicit material. To access this site you must be of the legal age to engage with the material of an adult site.
By entering Swinging Heaven you agree to the following;
I am deemed an adult where I live, and I am at least 18 years old
I am allowed to access & view sexually explicit material
xxxxx
hwoar: :phwoar: :phwoar:
