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Great Britain is PC mad...

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I visit Leeds on business quite often, and happened to be there on the Saturday when the Muslims celebrated Eid. There was a few of us at this particular convention and we'd all booked into B&B's in Headingley, we didn't realise what was going on or what all the fireworks were about. Not until we had to walk back to our hotels after the pubs shut, all the way from Kirkstall too!
We were not offended, just bloody knackered! sad
I dont celebrate Eid.....i celebrate christmas, why should i pander to somebody else's culture?

and yet you expect someone who doesn't celebrate christmas to pander to yours? confused and insisted on wishing the miserable bugger a Happy Christmas whether he wanted you to or no, even after he pointed that out to you? rolleyes
maybe he's more devout than you think, and finds the idea of some commercialised, bastardised, alcohol-fuelled binge-fest in the name of one of Islam's prophets a tad unsavoury, but nowhere in your posts do you say anything about him saying 'you' couldn't enjoy 'your' christmas? he just asked you to show some respect for his beliefs, and you actively chose to ignore him? why? to make a point? maybe he thought you were deliberately trying to wind him up.
neil x x x ;)
I often get presents at christmas that are not what I would have bought for myself, I still say thanks and smile and accept the sentiment.
So I would like to wish one and ALL a Merry Christmas... biggrin
Quote by neilinleeds
I dont celebrate Eid.....i celebrate christmas, why should i pander to somebody else's culture?

and yet you expect someone who doesn't celebrate christmas to pander to yours? confused and insisted on wishing the miserable bugger a Happy Christmas whether he wanted you to or no, even after he pointed that out to you? rolleyes
maybe he's more devout than you think, and finds the idea of some commercialised, bastardised, alcohol-fuelled binge-fest in the name of one of Islam's prophets a tad unsavoury, but nowhere in your posts do you say anything about him saying 'you' couldn't enjoy 'your' christmas? he just asked you to show some respect for his beliefs, and you actively chose to ignore him? why? to make a point? maybe he thought you were deliberately trying to wind him up.
neil x x x ;)
I take it you wont be celebrating or having a breal from work either then ;-)
Sorry but its a country where Christmas is celebrated like it or not so if it doesnt fit with anybody's ideals then go find somewhere that celebrates your own preference of festival...
I think political correctness is making everyone stupid, especially schools and government bodies.
I think it's correct that we should acknowledge and respect other cultures and their customs, but it's idiotic to me that we should deny our own at the same time.(????)
The way to social harmony is to allow people to feel proud about their own culture WITHOUT feeling threatened by others. Political correctness seems to put you in a position where you feel you have to apologise all the time mad
… and for what??????
:x :x :x
Just look at it this way ... if a muslim guy comes to you and wishes you "Happy Eid" or "Eid Mubarak" and since you do not celebrate Eid what would your reaction be? If you wish them back and not be offended, then its respect due to you for celebrating with other faiths. Yes, reporting your comments as racism to the boss is harsh as a devout muslim he should also show patience & understanding but the flip side is that he also made his position very clear earlier on. I know lots of devout christians who do not celebrate Christmas at all, and I wouldn't wish them as such because it would offend them - why? because they do not beleive Christmas to be Jesus's birthday and 25th holds no value for them. I have had those friends wish me "Happy Holidays" instead and vice versa. It requires understanding sensitivities on everyone's part at the end of the day.
and yes, i feel the government is to be blamed for over PC'ness in UK. It should have spent money on educating the public on different cultures and religions instead of putting in new laws.
Quote by bbw_lover
I think political correctness is making everyone stupid, especially schools and government bodies.
I think it's correct that we should acknowledge and respect other cultures and their customs, but it's idiotic to me that we should deny our own at the same time.(????)
The way to social harmony is to allow people to feel proud about their own culture WITHOUT feeling threatened by others. Political correctness seems to put you in a position where you feel you have to apologise all the time mad
… and for what??????
:x :x :x

:thumbup:
It would be intresting to know what will/has the boss done regarding his comlaint.
Quote by Mallock2006
I take it you wont be celebrating or having a breal from work either then ;-)
Sorry but its a country where Christmas is celebrated like it or not so if it doesnt fit with anybody's ideals then go find somewhere that celebrates your own preference of festival...

don't be daft. ;) i've just sorted me holidays out and i'll be doing bugger all for a whole 12 days, and no doubt some of that will be very much alcohol-fuelled. smile
the point is, respect is a two-way street, and little respect was shown in the OP. yes, 'we' celebrate Christmas in this country, just as 'we' also celebrate Eid, Chanukah, Divali, the Winter Solstice, whatever. if we want 'them' to respect 'our' traditions and customs, whatever they may be, maybe we need to show a little respect back for theirs? he's more than likely a British citizen, so he can think and believe what he bloody well likes, within the law, just like the rest of us, and he's got the same right to expect that we respect his traditions as we have to expect that he respects ours. not too much to ask is it?
neil x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
the point is, respect is a two-way street

Your right neil, but thats the problem it isn't, we have bent over backwards in this country for muslin beliefs, and what have we got back? absolutely nothing! in fact thats wrong, we have got something back, a kick in the teeth, all we do is offend them, why is their religion forced upon us? its now happening in schools and the work place, yet its offensive to them if we do the same, Why is it always christians that have to take a bow? we can't even do things we've done for thousands of years in case we offend someone, but they can do as they please, and if we're offended we're racist???? what next hair colour? religion will end this world, not fire, not floods.
And if any muslims are reading this then, eid mubarak. You can say the same back, i won't be offended, i'd reply with a thanks, because i'm polite. Theres more to life than religion biggrin
Quote by neilinleeds
I take it you wont be celebrating or having a breal from work either then ;-)
Sorry but its a country where Christmas is celebrated like it or not so if it doesnt fit with anybody's ideals then go find somewhere that celebrates your own preference of festival...

don't be daft. ;) i've just sorted me holidays out and i'll be doing bugger all for a whole 12 days, and no doubt some of that will be very much alcohol-fuelled. smile
the point is, respect is a two-way street, and little respect was shown in the OP. yes, 'we' celebrate Christmas in this country, just as 'we' also celebrate Eid, Chanukah, Divali, the Winter Solstice, whatever. if we want 'them' to respect 'our' traditions and customs, whatever they may be, maybe we need to show a little respect back for theirs? he's more than likely a British citizen, so he can think and believe what he bloody well likes, within the law, just like the rest of us, and he's got the same right to expect that we respect his traditions as we have to expect that he respects ours. not too much to ask is it?
neil x x x ;)
Al we seem to do in this country is go out of our way to accomodate other peoples points of view and/or beliefs...
All it gets us is laughed at ....
Maybe we should adopt their way of thinking by which I mean if they insult the religion of the indignous population here we hang/flog/deport/jail (delete as applicable) em....
Quote by Ukwineman
well considering we have been celerbrating Christmas in the UK for 2000 years you would think people would have got used the idea by now.

Well we wont be for another 2000 years thats for sure!!
We hear all kinds of crackpot things with regard to peoples beliefs, and how the " minority " want us to change our ways. Dont we bend over backwards enough already? We accept all faiths and their beliefs, but a lot dont want to respect ours! Religion is about making people better in themselves and being tolerant, but in my view all religion seems to do is divide and create hate amongst others. I have no problem at all with other peoples faiths whatever they are, but dont want anyones beliefs rammed down my throat on a constant basis. Equal rights for all, not just for some.
Quote by Catcorb
I think political correctness is making everyone stupid, especially schools and government bodies.
I think it's correct that we should acknowledge and respect other cultures and their customs, but it's idiotic to me that we should deny our own at the same time.(????)
The way to social harmony is to allow people to feel proud about their own culture WITHOUT feeling threatened by others. Political correctness seems to put you in a position where you feel you have to apologise all the time mad
… and for what??????
:x :x :x

:thumbup:
It would be intresting to know what will/has the boss done regarding his comlaint.
Yes! Very good point! What did the boss do about his complaint?
confused :? :?
Al we seem to do in this country is go out of our way to accomodate other peoples points of view and/or beliefs...
All it gets us is laughed at ....
Maybe we should adopt their way of thinking by which I mean if they insult the religion of the indignous population here we hang/flog/deport/jail (delete as applicable) em....

oh come on Steve ((( and others ))) that's what democracy is for. accomodating everyone, equally, in the plural society we live in, and striving for inclusivity, and mutual respect, even if some of those we extend that inclusivity to stick two fingers up at us.
it's not an easy thing to do, and it takes time, and occasionally people go too far, and grab the wrong end of the stick, like employers and union leaders who think you need to ban xmas cos they're scared it might offend muslims, or whoever this weeks bogey man is, and it royally pisses people off at times, but in the long run that's how we resolve our differences, and move forward, to try and achieve something we can all live with. even when ((( especially when!!! ))) an insignificant and completely unrepresentative minority of people resort to bombs.
people fought tooth and nail to achieve that, and stained the land with blood so we could enjoy it, much like what's happening in other parts of the world somewhat younger as nations than we are, and going through the same birth pangs we went through, so i know you don't really mean we should maybe try being every bit as Fascistic as the Saudi Arabias of this world? ;)
neil x x x ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
Al we seem to do in this country is go out of our way to accomodate other peoples points of view and/or beliefs...
All it gets us is laughed at ....
Maybe we should adopt their way of thinking by which I mean if they insult the religion of the indignous population here we hang/flog/deport/jail (delete as applicable) em....

oh come on Mallock, that's what democracy is for. accomodating everyone, equally, in the plural society we live in, and striving for inclusivity, and mutual respect, even if some of those we extend that inclusivity to stick two fingers up at us. that's how we resolve our differences, and move forward, to try and achieve something we can all live with, even when ((( especially when!!! ))) an insignificant and completely unrepresentative minority of people resort to bombs.
people fought tooth and nail to achieve that, and stained the land with blood so we could enjoy it, so i know you don't really mean we should maybe try being every bit as Fascistic as the Saudi Arabias and Third Reichs of this world? ;)
neil x x x ;)
I dont think for a second he is suggesting that, and i will always follow democracy, but as has been said in other thread you go to other countries you abide by thier customs and rules. We in this country try to welcome all peoples customs and to an extent rules. I'm not religious in any way shape or form and believe being so causes far more problems that it solves, but I have grown up with Christmas and easter and all the other holidays we have, not because of the religon but because of tradition. I have no problem with new traditions being brought in from other cultures, I love to learn new things but I do object to the slow erosion of my history and culture.
MERRY CHRISTMAS
Iam thinking a tad more basic...
We are as a society to blame.. give anyone an inch they take a mile.. People in power have caused so many problems allowing people to even think they have been offended in the first place.. Just like the 'where theres blame theres a claim' sort of thing..
Muslims and the like have been a part of our culture for a lot longer than people tend to remember.. How come no one was offended just a short time ago.. how is it that all of a sudden mention Christmas and you'd think you had pulled his mothers eyebrows out ff's..
As I have said.. I have a muslim neighbour.. He has been over wished us a Merry Christmas and even wrote out a card from him and his family.. we have done the very same and been invited to a meal with them come the new year.. Not been summoned to the United feckin nations for racial abuse ........
These radical types are causing the problems for there own people.. Bloody arse!
Mike
Quote by bbw_lover
I think political correctness is making everyone stupid, especially schools and government bodies.
I think it's correct that we should acknowledge and respect other cultures and their customs, but it's idiotic to me that we should deny our own at the same time.(????)
The way to social harmony is to allow people to feel proud about their own culture WITHOUT feeling threatened by others. Political correctness seems to put you in a position where you feel you have to apologise all the time mad

Absolutely spot on :thumbup:
I've been to Diwali events and been given sweets to celebrate etc. It didn't offend me and I don't believe people should be offended for wishing them a merry christmas. Equality and diversity only works when it applies to all, not just in one direction like the PC brigade seem to promote.
Oh and BTW, my local kebab shop has a big merry christmas sign up and loads of decorations. Do attitudes bend when money is involved?! Just call me cynical lol...
Muslims and the like have been a part of our culture for a lot longer than people tend to remember.. How come no one was offended just a short time ago.. how is it that all of a sudden mention Christmas and you'd think you had pulled his mothers eyebrows out ff's..

maybe it's partly thanks to the increasingly divisive, confrontational, oppositional rhetoric we use whenever we talk about it, whether that be in the Murdoch press, in Parliament, on the BBC, in the Guardian, or on forums like this one? if 'we' talk about our relationships with 'them' in confrontational terms, well the more extreme types are most likely gonna adopt a similiarly confrontational posture themselves?
why are muslims increasingly demanding of their rights in this country? simple, easy answer . . . because they no longer live in pre-industrial theocracies, like Afghanistan under the Taleban, and have now sussed that in a democracy they are entitled to demand whatever they bloody well like, and then we'll talk about it. smile whether we give it to them is another matter! lol ;) the lunatic fringes can demand that we chop peoples heads off if they insult Mohammed all they like, cos they're never gonna get it, but then the NF and BNP used to shout Niggers and Pakis, Out, Out, Out on Briggate of a saturday afternoon, and we never took them all that seriously either? ;)
we'll say nothing at this point of racist murders in Dewsbury, BNP candidates elected to Council, The Balkans, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Colonialism, Occupation, India, Pakistan, the War On Terror, International Law, arbitrary detention, torture, extraordinary renditions, etc, etc, etc. if i was a Muslim, i think i'd be angry right now, and demanding a little bit of common decency and respect ta very much, just as i'm angered by suicide bombings, beheadings, 200 lashes for victims, stonings for adultery, etc, etc, etc. that's muddying the waters i know, but it plays right into the hands of people like Hitz but Tahrir, Hamas, Hezbollah, so-called Al-Qaeda, etc, and helps their ilk turn naive young innocent fools into suicide bombers. evil
you ask 'what's changed with them?' i ask 'what's changed with us?' confused dunno we're meant to be better than all that, but i imagine that if i felt my identity and culture was under threat, then i might assert that identity and culture rather more stridently than i had previously, much like you'd read in this thread, and yes, the radicals on all sides will exploit that if we play into their game, and they'll do their damnedest to ruin it, for all sides. it's classic divide and rule, and yet we're allowing them to set our agenda, and play our hand for us, cos we're all soooooo intimidated and afraid of 'them'? FFS we'll even swallow biometric ID cards if it only saves us, saves us from the muslim hordes! :lol:
i'm obviously being stupidly facetious, but let's keep the whole thing in context? there's a bit of a power struggle for hearts and minds going on at the mo, nothing more, nothing less.;)
neil x x x ;)
I am reading this thread with interest and must admit that in my view NeilinLeeds is putting forth the stronger arguement in my book. The world is probably less barbaric and diverse if you look at the whole nowadays. The normal man in the street which is the vast vast majority has no beef with each other.
It is was and will always be the extreme radicals that influence how each other feel. If I was a Muslim reading this forum I would feel nervous and a little angry i guess. Maybe I would go then and use a forum which had a mainly middle view muslim membership and say the same sort of things about the 'Christianity' based ideology of this forum? This sort of thing begets more ill feeling .
I do think that common sense will out in the end. We are becoming a more homogenised mass i believe. The evil deployed by the radicals is now such that it can be felt by more people than ever before given technology allows this. The proportion of evil do'ers is less great i sincerely think these modern times
I understand the feeling of average British Christianocentric bloke - I am one biggrin
The world is probably less barbaric if you are not female, gay, a pre-pubescent female, or sexually liberated. Let's not forget so called honor killings which are on the rise in Britain. Women who do not bend to the will of their family or commuity are often forced to commit suicide or are murdered and the killings are made to look like suicide. It is documented that there are now well organised networks of hit men who are prepared to murder on the say so of those families who feel that they have been dishonoured.
Rather than it being extreme radicals influencing how each other feel, it is in the words of Zia Hader Rhaman a Muslim author and journalist writing in the Telegraph on a poll in which a significant amount of British Muslims had some sympathy with the London suicide bombers and 1/4 of British Muslims beleive the government and secret services were involved in the London suicide bombings. He states that "quite logically if an idea is commonly held it cannot be exclusive to an extremist fringe...1/4 cannot be dismissed as a lunatic fringe but constitutes a significant minority".
When the programme 'Undercover Mosques was critised by the police and that critisism was dismissed by the authorities because the programme was said to be in the public interest. I agree, as a bi-sexual, sexually liberated woman i am well aware of what my fate would be if i lived in such an intolerant hypocritical society. After all, people settle in this country to escape oppression and prejudice, why should a significant number of them deny these freedoms to their families and attempt to impose their will on the wider community.
No i'm not racist before anyone accuses me. However, i strongly believe that people should contront and challenge things whenever necessary rather than towing the PC line.
I don't care if this offends anyone;
I would have told him to f*ck off and if he does'nt like it go live in a muslim country.
Before anyone starts screaming that i'm a racist, let me tell you this.
I lived and worked in Saudi for a while, and during ramadam you were not allowed to eat/drink during the day in public, if you did you could be arrested. Thier country, thier rules. It was my choice to live/work there.
Im not a sexist or a racist !
its a pitty really, because i know a great joke about tina turner !
Quote by browning
Thier country, thier rules. It was my choice to live/work there.

That I entirely agree with. But what about Muslims that were born here?
Do they have more less or an equal right to campaign for change as I do? I might disagree with their politics, but then I disagree with the politics of many people of the same colour creed gender and upbringing as myself - The only difference is one group is easier to shout down and dismiss as radical, foreign etc.
I see one of the biggest problems being idiot do gooders. You'll often find behind the red top screams of those "ethnics" trying to ban x y or z there's a white Christian type who's actually the one who came up with the ideas and directives. These schemes lead to the "How dare *they*" annoyance which causes the minorities to feel even more ostracised and increases tension all around, and it's all down to some simpering halfwit and not the Muslims/ Asians/ etc at all.
One small note - This wasn't always a Christian country. And in fact those who brought that faith to these shores also waved big pointy sticks around and were often seen as violent and unpopular side among the indigenous peoples. Funny how history repeats itself..
Quote by mywifeintights
Im not a sexist or a racist !
its a pitty really, because i know a great joke about tina turner !

is Tina Turner a racist? :shock:
lp
That I entirely agree with. But what about Muslims that were born here?
There lies the problem, when you are born you do not have a religion, it's normally your parents that, in my opinion brainwash you into a relgion. As an adult you have a choice. If you are born here and you choose to be a muslim, then you MUST respect our culture.
Quote by browning
There lies the problem, when you are born you do not have a religion, it's normally your parents that, in my opinion brainwash you into a relgion. As an adult you have a choice. If you are born here and you choose to be a muslim, then you MUST respect our culture.

I'm no sure I can go along with that. Not so long ago "my" culture was imprisoning homosexuals and unwed mothers under the guise of insanity. Christian morals were used to oppressive extremes in communities as well as being the basis for many existing and new laws. Racism wasn't considered as unpalatable as it is now.
So it appears youre' saying that if you "choose" to be a Christian you're fine as you and the culture are as one, but if you "choose" to be agnostic, atheist, Muslim, Pastafarian or any other belief (or lack thereof) system then you must suffer the way things are and not protest at what you might see as injustice or oppression.
As to religious brainwashing, again I'm in complete agreement. But if a child is brainwashed from birth into believing a particular faith, is it really their fault if they keep that faith as they grow up? They were force fed the doctrine during their formative years so expecting everyone to question and possibly renounce their faith in adulthood when it's become a part of their persona seems a little extreme, and suggest to me very few people truly have a choice in the matter.
I for one do not wish to have anyone ordering me to have a happy Christmas (given I am certainly not a believer in Christ) and would be mildly irritated if they ignored my request (as in the OP), but I would also be tolerant enough not to go running to make a complaint about it!
I really did enjoy reading this post. I do have to admit that i thought you had made a typo mistake which made me chortlebiggrin it was this bit >>>>>>
Quote by Shambolic
but if you "choose" to be agnostic, atheist, Muslim, Pastafarian or any other belief

<<<<<< Fortunately i googled just in case!! Oh for crying out loud there is a sect called Pastafarian i thought you meant Rastafarian rotflmao
Quote by Alandtra69
my nephew, who is 8 and lives with me, goes to a very multicultural school, tho muslim is becoming very dominant. they celebrated a day with the muslim children at the start of ramadam, it wasnt optional, we couldnt take our children out of school if we didnt want them to partake, it was cumpulsory. im very open minded about most things in life so it didnt bother me if my nephew was happy, but what did bother me is the fact that when my nephew wrote and put xmas cards in the school for his friends in the first week of december , he was lectured about the earliness of his gesture but also about the fact that as a multicultural school they didnt want to offend anybody!! i went to the school and after a lengthy discussion with his teacher and headmaster i was told that next year they may not be having a tree or decs up or even xmas parties for the children due to pc!!!! im dumbfounded, just a little because when i was little i lived in a country called great britain, which upheld all traditions such as xmas and easter, harvest festival etc, now it seems they may only be distant memories and a thing of the past in the next few years. so while im allowed to say it openly, happy xmas, happy holidays, happy eid, whatever it is you prefer to call it, enjoy your break everyone xxxx

Please be aware that it is your right as a parent to withdraw your children from any religious education. This law was not brought about by racists, not in the fashionable sence of the word anyway. It was brought about because people from certain other religious groups did not like their kids learning about other religions.
I'm an Atheist, and none of my children are allowed to be brainwashed into religion at school.
One pertinant question though. Which of the main stream or widely believed religions would openly tolerate Swinging Heaven membership?
Quote by neilinleeds
Muslims and the like have been a part of our culture for a lot longer than people tend to remember.. How come no one was offended just a short time ago.. how is it that all of a sudden mention Christmas and you'd think you had pulled his mothers eyebrows out ff's..

maybe it's partly thanks to the increasingly divisive, confrontational, oppositional rhetoric we use whenever we talk about it, whether that be in the Murdoch press, in Parliament, on the BBC, in the Guardian, or on forums like this one? if 'we' talk about our relationships with 'them' in confrontational terms, well the more extreme types are most likely gonna adopt a similiarly confrontational posture themselves?

Superbly put Neil, I agree with everything you said. Things need to be put in perspective.
anyone find this offensive:

no?
a lovely labrador and a cuddly teddy bear......yet give them a name and all hell breaks loose....have fun, whatever you call this time of year.
Oh and just for those that didnt figure it out....the dog belonged to douglas bader, the bear was the subject of recent news and if anyone has an original copy of the dam busters with the original sound track i'd like a copy for CHRISTMAS please evil