Hard to swallow!

31 Aug 2004

Quote by VenusnMars
Venusxxx (still not doing the housework, but who is dressed and has opened the curtains)

One-two, one-two, onnnnne- twooooo.
Hem hem!!
Can you hear me at the back?? No, Then how did you hear what I said??
Ladies and Gentlemen. It gives me great pleasure to announce that ............
VenusnMars' curtains are now open!!
******** Hijack over ***********

31 Aug 2004

Damn! I only nipped out to the shop, and Reese wrote a book in my absence wink

Venusxxx

31 Aug 2004

Quote by Reese
A curiosity springs to mind: In a MFMF foursome involving two bi-fems and two str8-males, what do the guys do when the girls are otherwise involved with each other? Sit back and enjoy a friendly cup of tea??

In such a situation, I believe staring intently at the women is de-rigeur, and wanking is optional. Positioning yourself at right-angles to the other guy so niether of you are in the other's line of vision is considered polite.
Seriously, though, from my gangbang experience, you need to be above a 3:1 rato of men to women before str8 guys run out of orifices, hands or breasts to focus all their attention on, and nearer to 5:1 before the spare guys do anything other than slumped recovery.
In a 30-ish:2 situation, I went and had a friendly sit down and a cup of coffee between rounds... but I'm bi-refreshable so tea wouldn't have been out of the question if it was on offer :-)

31 Aug 2004

Quote by Mister_Discreet
I'm bi-refreshable so tea wouldn't have been out of the question if it was on offer :-)

31 Aug 2004

Quote by Reese
I've never snogged another guy, though - it's just never happened

That's not how I remember things hun. (Thinking of our third chap, here)
By the way - I really apologise for the cuppa tea thing.

31 Aug 2004

My husband and I have an advert on here, and rather than say we are both Bi we phrased it that "we are both comfortable with same-sex play" ( I know it means the same thing )
We worried that there are so many guys who really stress the point that they're st8.
But in our fairly limited experience we have found that just as men enjoy seeing their partners at play , women often get horny fantasising about their blokes having some bi-play aswell............I know I do :twisted:
..........and I'm pleased that I don't seem to be on my own with this opinion smile

But we do feel that everyone has a right to be individual and we'd never force how we feel on other people.
Charlotte xx

31 Aug 2004

Quote by Vix
I've never snogged another guy, though - it's just never happened

That's not how I remember things hun. (Thinking of our third chap, here)
Really?! Cool!! :P *carves another notch in his bedpost and damns his selective memory*

Quote by Vix
By the way - I really apologise for the cuppa tea thing.

No no - it was brilliant - priceless, even!! :thumbup:
~LRXXX :love:

31 Aug 2004

As the theme for this thread seems to be mammoth posts I will try put my pespective down in words. Here goes with my life story:-
I had my first same sex experience when I was about 19 with a guy at least 20 years older than me. It freaked me out completely, I thought I was gay, I wondered whether I should come out, etc. etc. etc. The reason it bothered me so much was that I had not had a very satisfactory sexual experience with a female up until that point and seriously wondered whether this was because I was gay. (As it happens this was due to problems with an overly tight foreskin, but that is another story for another thread.)
When Charlotte and I married and moved in together we had better sex than I could have imagined and if asked I would have said that I was 100% Straight without the slightest interest in men. 7 years later our sex life was going through a less fulfilling time and we discussed the idea of having a threesome with another man. Charlotte generally has a higher sex drive than me so we thought this would be a good place to start. We started chatting to a guy called steve and explored the idea of meeting for a threesome.
Steve had stated he was Bi and asked whether I was. I said I was curious having had some rather unfulfilling previous experience. Talking about it with Charlotte she made it clear that if I was interested the idea of seeing Steve and I playing with each other made her very horny. I also found that I found the idea tempting and was certainly not adverse to trying. Charlotte and I arranged to meet Steve and have met him numerous times over the last 5 months or so. When we meet up it is a true threesome in that the three of us play with whatever and whoever is to hand. I have found that I am quite happy giving and receiving oral and masterbation with Steve. We have discussed anal but have so far not tried it.
I have had "Bi" experiences with about half of the other couples/males that we have met and have just as much fun whether the other guy is bi or not. When we arrange to meet people in private it is something we discuss in advance and i would not dream of making trying to play with a man who had stated he was straight. If we go to a club it is something that we do not mention, this is not because I am ashamed to admit it, simply that there is a very strong perception that Bi-females are a good thing and that Bi-males are a bad thing.
The question is what does all that say about my sexual orientation?
Firstly I would describe myself as straight, I am a happily married man and the best sex I have is with my wife.
Secondly I am bi-sexual, I have had mutually enjoyable sexual encounters with a number of members of the same sex and do not feel ashamed about it or feel the need to hide it.
Thirdly I am bi-curious, I have never tried anal with another man but I'm curious whether I would like it. I also generally do not kiss other men who we swing with however I am curious as to how that would feel with someone I felt comfortable with.
I think this illustrates the problem of trying to pigeon-hole people and define them by narrow terms especially when it comes to sexuality. In our experience many of the men who state in ads that they are "st8" are open to trying bi-sexual play once they know the other people involved are happy with this. Also we are well aware that if we put in our ad that Charlotte was very-bi and I was completely straight we would get about twice as many replies, we probably only have half as much fun though.
I think soceity has neatly divided men into two groups, those who are gay and those who are straight. I think there is still the opinion that anyone in-between is a closet gay who can't make his mind up and if you turn your back on him he will be lifting your shirt faster than you can say 'uphill gardner'.
Right there you go, my life rambling life story. I'm not sure if anyone is interested but as I found the earlier posts a very thought-provoking read i thought I should add my bit.
Roger xxx
P.S. I am kind of regreting writing this all down now that I read it back but I will leave it here until I lose my nerve. redface

ops:

1 Sep 2004

Roger - what a wonderful, honest, well stated post.
*hugs* to you from both of us!

1 Sep 2004

Roger~
Indeed, a truly incredible post. Our *hugs* to Charlotte, too, for giving you the comfort and security to totally be yourself.

Quote by rogerthedragon
I think this illustrates the problem of trying to pigeon-hole people and define them by narrow terms especially when it comes to sexuality. In our experience many of the men who state in ads that they are "st8" are open to trying bi-sexual play once they know the other people involved are happy with this. Also we are well aware that if we put in our ad that Charlotte was very-bi and I was completely straight we would get about twice as many replies, we probably only have half as much fun though.

You've hit the nail squarely on the head, there. Reading through the "couples seeking couples" ads is what originally gave me the (mistaken?) impression that my being bi- was such a rarity, and that it would be near impossible for Vix & me to find what we were looking for. Your experience of men who profess "str8"-ness in their ads, yet being open to same-sex play in the right situation, offers some consolation. However, it would be immensely useful if these had some way of indicating their degree of willingness to "take the plunge", as it were (which is precisely why I'd posted this poll in my early days on SH).
It's a tough one. I sometimes wonder if the wording of Vix' & my ad - "Semi-Bi Somerset Couple Seeks Bi-..." - is overly-strict. Although we're both happy with the level of response we've received, would our replies go through the roof if we weren't so adamant? To quote the ad: "Oh, and if you're not at least bi-curious (and, couples, this meansbothof you!), don't bother responding to this ad." Is that too much? Would we be better off merely saying that we're not averse to same-sex play, as you & Charlotte have? Then again, I consider that it's one sure way of eliminating potential homophobes and those straight males with whom any sort of MM contact, even that of a non-sexual nature, would be a problem. I don't know.
Hopefully, posts like yours, Mr. D's, Judy's and Blue's anonymous correspondent's can inspire others like ourselves to be more comfortable in expressing their "bi-side". And perhaps the positive feedback from members like Venus, Clare and Charlotte would stimulate them even further by revealing women's perspective on male bisexuality. Now, if only we could make this thread required reading for anyone posting a new photo ad on SH... ;)

Quote by rogerthedragon
P.S. I am kind of regreting writing this all down now that I read it back but I will leave it here until I lose my nerve. ops:

Don't you dare edit this post! It's perfect the way it is. :thumbup:
~Reese! :o

1 Sep 2004

"I don't buy that in most swinging couples that the woman is usually bi"
The above was a comment from Blue on #2 of this long discussion.
My original wording was intended to be somewhat controversial, and so it has proved.
I could similarly have asked the question as Blue poses it.
Actually I think she(?) is absolutely right.
Certainly bi-females are a very widely-held male fantasy.
I also get the impression that many of the adverts (our own included!) are written by the male of the partnership.
In my very unscientific opinion, I too think that many of the girls are described as being at least bi-curious merely because the girl wants to satisfy that part of their partner's fantasy. In reality, the girl may not or may not want to participate wholeheartedly in this aspect of their play.

1 Sep 2004

crosspatch, do you have a problem telling the difference between males and females? :shock: Don't worry, I've never been into labels myself...... transgender rules..... oh shit, another label rolleyes

Contraversial certainly, interesting definately..... personal and heartfelt always..... slightly bigoted occassionally..... but that's SH for you
I was going to tell you all my bisexual life story yesterday but I was at work and the bloody system crashed part way through the post, so I didn't.... can't be arsed to write it all out again :roll: :lol:

1 Sep 2004

I am sorry to you all to do this, but I have just had a PM that has sickened me. People have been making honest and heartfelt responses to this thread..... obviously there is a lot of trust and genuine friendships on here lol

. However, the original poster of this thread is obviously none too chuffed..... my first thought was to delete this PM as soon as I read it, but rightly or wrongly, I feel that people should know what is being said in private....
Sorry again if this upsets anyone (apart from the person who sent the PM rolleyes

Even if this PM was intended as a joke, it is a sad one.
________________
Delighted you could not write your life history. Actually, I do wish some members would learn to be less verbose for it makes for boring reading, assuming one doesn't give up half way through.
From memory you are a girl, but I am afraid I couldn't be bothered to track back

1 Sep 2004

What a very strange comment of yours Blue ....... You are right that much of the comment in this thread is thoughtful and has made very interesting reading. Nevertheless, it is equally true that people in general (not only me) cannot be bothered to wade through any long article, whether in here or in a newspaper.

1 Sep 2004

As I've said to you in PM.....
If you don't want to read long posts, don't read them. But if the forum bores you that much, why are you here? It is sad that people (not only you) cannot be bothered to get to know people on here. Your loss.

1 Sep 2004

Quote by crosspatch
What a very strange comment of yours Blue ....... You are right that much of the comment in this thread is thoughtful and has made very interesting reading. Nevertheless, it is equally true that people in general (not only me) cannot be bothered to wade through any long article, whether in here or in a newspaper.

Why post such a topic in the first place then?If youwanted one line answers,post a crap joke instead!

1 Sep 2004

I am the crap joke for I am The Camel

1 Sep 2004

Nice come back rolleyes

Short enough for you to be bothered to read? :roll: :roll: :roll:

1 Sep 2004

Quote by Vix
Roger - what a wonderful, honest, well stated post.
*hugs* to you from both of us!

Quote by Reese
Roger~
Indeed, a truly incredible post. Our *hugs* to Charlotte, too, for giving you the comfort and security to totally be yourself.

Quote by JudyTV
I would just like to second what Reese has said here, an excellentand admirable post Roger, please dont edit it in any way.
JudyTV

Thank you very much all 3 of you, it is this kind of sentiment that makes the Cafe such a nice place to visit. kiss

:kiss: :kiss:
As far as us all rambling and taking over your thread goes Crosspatch, take it as a compliment, you have started something very thought provoking which is a good thing. I for one love reading the more serious threads on here and this is one of the most interesting in a while.
Roger.

1 Sep 2004

OMFG!
crosspatch! possibly i'm in arrogant mode, but possibly some of us are quite clever enough to wade through a long post, and actually learn something by so doing . . . i wouldn't know!
boring reading? i am thoroughly enlightened, and thinking about many things, and i will no doubt bore you to bloody tears here!
roger! i've told you elsewhere in my usual flippant way, that i thought that was a bloody good post! brave and honest! here of all places should be the place we feel able to do that kinda post altogether! i hope you don't live to regret it, cos that would be very informative . . . .
my experiences? well there were two, that i thouroughly enjoyed at the time, when i was 18. that i later had to live with years of self-recrimination and thought's of "does that make me gay", well where do i get that attitude from? was i spoon fed it all my life? and slated for it? by people who had certainly never ended up in bed with me ffs!
well i'm older and wiser, and i think i'm straight! in fact i know i'm straight, cos my surroundings confront me with the "neilinleeds is a fooking poof" as it is, where i currently live, and i find it very very difficult to live with!! i've earned that cos i went to public school, and don't wear shell-suits! sweeping statement i know, but many sweeping statements are made of me!! but would i ever rule it out? no! right people, right time, right situation, who knows!! i was manipulated into a very dangerous situation through a combo of drink and *other* substances in my youth? i enjoyed it! so much so i had to revisit the very dangerous situation once again, just to make sure! crucify me!
how many that are soooo disgusted by the very idea, actually have that very idea in their heads, and feel a need to run screaming from it, for social reasons, by kicking those who think, at long last, it is at least open for exploration!
neil x x x ;-)

1 Sep 2004

Wonder if you want a different take on this? I consider myself to be heterosexual - in that I have no desire for a 'relationship' with another guy. However, I have always been just as attracted to male bodies in porn as to womens. Apart from the usual 'you show me yours and I'll show you mine' scenarios when a young lad with other boys I had never done anything of a sexual nature with another guy. In my late 30's - after 10+ years in a faithful marriage - I felt like I wanted to explore a bit and the thought of sex with another guy intrigued me. Sure enough I struck up a conversation online with a guy through the newsgroups and we arranged to meet up at a motel in Didcot. We had a shower together, played with each other, culminating in full oral sex. We tried penetration but it didn't work for either of us and proved to be something I have no desire for. However, I thoroughly enjoyed oral sex with another guy - both giving and receiving. That was a one-off but I have had 2-3 sessions with another guy while watching blue movies. Again, thoroughly enjoyable. My take on this then? We all have the ability to enjoy sexual contact in many forms. The taboos are in our head. I do not consider myself 'gay' as I divorce sexual fun from a loving, supportive relationship. I am bisexual meaning I enjoy sex with both genders. My current fantasy is sexy fun with a TV or cross-dressser (what's the difference by the way?) as the thought of feminine clothing and male genitalia beneath turns me on. It's only sex people - enjoy it. Different strokes for different folks!

1 Sep 2004

Thanx Judy _ I'm new here and there is a hell of a lot of stuff in here!!!!
X

2 Sep 2004

Quote by Cableguy
My take on this then? We all have the ability to enjoy sexual contact in many forms. The taboos are in our head.

Cableguy~
Welcome to the SH forums and thanks for such a thoughtful contribution to this thread!
Like you, I don't consider myself "gay" at all - despite my bisexual experience - as I could never imagine myself in a loving, supportive, long-term relationship with a same-sex partner. In fact, I would never engage in any sort of sexual relationship - bisexual or otherwise - unless my partner, Vix, was present.
Does that make me "conditionally bi-"? Eh, probably. Personally, as much as I dislike labels, I think there should be a word for those who engage in sex with either gender strictly as a couple. Would certainly make the ads less wordy!
~Reese! surprised

2 Sep 2004

Thanx Reese for the comments. Perhaps we should start a new thread to coin a name for bisexuals who are conditionally bi as part of a couple. Can't think of any offhand though sad

My favourite quote though came from Boy George when asked if he was in fact bisexual. Why of course, he said, if I want sex I buy it!
Boom! Boom!

2 Sep 2004

Im not bisexual, but i do get excitement from certain "gay" acts and can be in a "guy mood". I very much enjoy giving a guy head/handjobs and enjoy receiving. I can understand why some guys dont like it at all, but i think they are missing out.

2 Sep 2004

Quote by GoNoir
Im not bisexual, but i do get excitement from certain "gay" acts and can be in a "guy mood". I very much enjoy giving a guy head/handjobs and enjoy receiving.

I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat meat. rolleyes

2 Sep 2004

Haha, ok i can see what you mean.
I'll explain a bit further. I dont find guys facially attractive, and i cant ever see me wanting to kiss a guy. I never get excited but just seeing a guy in the street or in a movie. I have to be horny and see his more delicate regions to get fired up.
I have no idea what that makes me. confused

2 Sep 2004

Quote by Vix
Im not bisexual, but i do get excitement from certain "gay" acts and can be in a "guy mood". I very much enjoy giving a guy head/handjobs and enjoy receiving.

I'm not vegetarian, but I don't eat meat. rolleyes

What I like about this place is people are allowed to be whatever they're comfortable being, without anyone telling them what they should be.

3 Sep 2004

Quote by GoNoir
Haha, ok i can see what you mean.
I'll explain a bit further. I dont find guys facially attractive, and i cant ever see me wanting to kiss a guy. I never get excited but just seeing a guy in the street or in a movie. I have to be horny and see his more delicate regions to get fired up.
I have no idea what that makes me.

Thank you for the clarification. Sorry for being a facetious eejit, but... that's what I am.
wink

3 Sep 2004

Actually, I think you brought up an interesting point - Neither me or GoNoir are happy applying the term 'bi' to ourselves, not because it's derogatory or factually inaccurate, but because I think it raises expectations that don't match up to reality well enough.