I was talking to a friend (female) the other day and she said something that I hadn't considered before, namely that, in her view, softcore pornography is far more damaging in society than hardcore.
To illustrate the point she used the example of the portrayal of women in a typical lad's magazine or page 3 of the Sun or Star or Sport, compared to the explicit R18 style DVD. In her mind, softcore is much more detrimental to women because it portrays women as vulnerable, stupid and open to the exploitation of men.
In her view hardcore is more egalitarian because it shows women enjoying sex as much as men, and more importantly, showing women enjoying men as sex objects (as well as men enjoyiong women as sex objects). She explicitly excludes porn where women are obviously being mistreated as, she says, "that is just out and out exploitation... the difference between working in a sweat shop and M&S".
Upon rumination, I understand completely where she is coming from. And as a non-buyer of lad's mags or red tops, but having seen them in the gym from time to time I actually totally agree.
Any views, both women's and men's, would be good to see.
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Hardcore vs Softcore
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This probably won't make sense but then what does!! There will always be sweat shops no matter what but M&S could well go bust at any minute...
I have actually worked with some of these exploited women as you say (soft porn models etc) and if anyone were to say to these girls your being exploited they would laugh at you.... they are hard working very bright and focused on what they want from life....... maybe not all granted but most who appear as you stated are very well paid and have a fab lifestyle to boot!
Lets face it men or women of some professions are always going to make someone look bad!
Mike
I have actually worked with some of these exploited women as you say (soft porn models etc) and if anyone were to say to these girls your being exploited they would laugh at you.... they are hard working very bright and focused on what they want from life....... maybe not all granted but most who appear as you stated are very well paid and have a fab lifestyle to boot!
Lets face it men or women of some professions are always going to make someone look bad!
Mike
Quote by mdr2000
This probably won't make sense but then what does!! There will always be sweat shops no matter what but M&S could well go bust at any minute...
I have actually worked with some of these exploited women as you say (soft porn models etc) and if anyone were to say to these girls your being exploited they would laugh at you.... they are hard working very bright and focused on what they want from life....... maybe not all granted but most who appear as you stated are very well paid and have a fab lifestyle to boot!
Lets face it men or women of some professions are always going to make someone look bad!
Mike
I think the point was the harm it does to other women, not so much about the women who are the active parties (who obviously are fairly well clued in). My friend's view was that she is fed up being treated as if she is a commodity rather than a human being with a sexual side.
Sex God
Quote by delsutton
I think the point was the harm it does to other women, not so much about the women who are the active parties (who obviously are fairly well clued in). My friend's view was that she is fed up being treated as if she is a commodity rather than a human being with a sexual side.
I agree with that one.
Although I have been known to squeal with delight(ok, maybe not that excited) when Neil brings the sunday sport in to keep me quiet and out of his hair on a sunday morning while he reads the Guardian!
Although I must be one of the few that actually *reads* the sport. 
Oh and the cast offs of the proper paper when he's finished with them and is off cooking my breaky.... I digress.The softcore porn doesn't bother me nearly as much as images in glossy magazines.
All air brished next to an article telling you how they lost half their body weight and got a new found love of their life in 24 hours with little to no effort what-so-ever. :roll: That in my opinion is way more unrealistic than a lass with her boobs out posing in her frillies.
Not everyone knows a porn star or a page three girly, but everone has a girl-next -door or down the road, so it's easier to rationalise that they are all perma-tanned and making money off the people who want to see that without having full intercourse infront of others. they are exploiting the sexual pound and winking in our direction thinking... if only you know how much I was getting paid for this!
Gem. x
Maybe, once upon a time, when all you saw were the airbrush perfected pictures, I would have agreed with you.
In the last couple of years these glossy shoots have been unconvered for what they are, glossy shoots. A few pages into the mag, there will be a pap shot of the same celeb, sans make-up, sans air-brush looking as rough as a badgers arse.
Anyone who buys into gloss, and thinks that look is obtainable, without clever make up, lighting and the old airbrush must be completely stupid. Anyone can look that good when they have that much time and money spent on them. All you need to see through it is a bit of common sense.
One question......does your friend think Heat magazines "Torso of the week" is degrading to men?
I read the Sunday Sport too Gem
Les x
In the last couple of years these glossy shoots have been unconvered for what they are, glossy shoots. A few pages into the mag, there will be a pap shot of the same celeb, sans make-up, sans air-brush looking as rough as a badgers arse.
Anyone who buys into gloss, and thinks that look is obtainable, without clever make up, lighting and the old airbrush must be completely stupid. Anyone can look that good when they have that much time and money spent on them. All you need to see through it is a bit of common sense.
One question......does your friend think Heat magazines "Torso of the week" is degrading to men?
I read the Sunday Sport too Gem
Les x
Sexlightened
Hi,
Got to agree with the original poster that the effect is upon those reading/ viewing hte material not necessarily with the models themselves.
When the laddies are reading this and egged on into believing every woman is getting their tits out for them 'personally' is it any wonder that they have scant regard for women.
I think a point here, that is often missed, is the language used in articles associated with the women in magazines and porn sites. It is the violent nature of the language that is abusive to women rather than the scantily clad women that causes the denigration of women.
Think of it this way: It is perfectly possible to tell someone to "get los"t in a variety of different ways by the intonation of your voice and the speed and volume of the delivery - you may smile or not. Try it with other phrases and you can see that its the hidden aggression that is really at fault not a naked image IMHO
Shay
Got to agree with the original poster that the effect is upon those reading/ viewing hte material not necessarily with the models themselves.
When the laddies are reading this and egged on into believing every woman is getting their tits out for them 'personally' is it any wonder that they have scant regard for women.
I think a point here, that is often missed, is the language used in articles associated with the women in magazines and porn sites. It is the violent nature of the language that is abusive to women rather than the scantily clad women that causes the denigration of women.
Think of it this way: It is perfectly possible to tell someone to "get los"t in a variety of different ways by the intonation of your voice and the speed and volume of the delivery - you may smile or not. Try it with other phrases and you can see that its the hidden aggression that is really at fault not a naked image IMHO
Shay
I think there is a difference between commercial high tech/quality and home grown porn.
I like erotic natural as possible, real looking porn. In this case I like home grown and commercial.
But when the wind fans come out and its all glossy, contorted poses, its not real enough for me, so does nothing for me. If the home grown gets a bit too adventurous, it starts to look messy and nasty to me.
I like erotic natural as possible, real looking porn. In this case I like home grown and commercial.
But when the wind fans come out and its all glossy, contorted poses, its not real enough for me, so does nothing for me. If the home grown gets a bit too adventurous, it starts to look messy and nasty to me.
Sex God
Quote by couple_ne2000
I read the Sunday Sport too Gem
:inlove: I think I like you even more now Les!
:lol:I look at the piccies while going, oooo I like her... she's nice and comparing his opinion with mine. It can be very enlightening as to what type we both go for. I've learned a lot about his taste in women from our sunday morning chats over the sunday sport. :P :lol:
As a mid 20year old I can rationalise that glossy magazines are just that... glossy. Once it is stripped back to the bare bones, then rugh as a badgers arse it is. Take articles such as circle of shame and the like... circling things like sweat rings, spots, camel toe, hairy pits etc.... all still point in the direction of unacceptablitly and heard more younger females into the sheep pen of conforming to what they think society wants from them.
At a younger age a lot of people just want to fit in, to be normal, and when they see images of people airbrushed (in any publication) and all highly sexed up, is it real? I just feel we've somehow lost our way with telling people it's ok to be who you are. I don't think women or men in general are exposed to the realisty of the naked body in general everyday life nearly as much as our european counterparts and I do thin this is where the degredation idea comes from. We (the general public) don't come into contact with that much nakedness and so the media are free to feed us any image they so wish and tell us it's 'normal' to look like that.
When I lived in Denmark, in the public swimming baths, you're sepparated into male and female changing sections where you shower naked infront of the other females there, you then put your costume on and go for your swim. Two English girls I know were asked to leave because they refussed to shower and they told them they were unhygenic and wouldn't let them in the pool.
The reason they wouldn't take their costumes off were because they thought it was dirty to be seen naked in public.
The thing is there were all ages, shapes, sizes in there together and nothing untoward happened, year sure the little girls stared a bit sometimes... but then isn't it more healthy for that environment than to permanently cover up and to be told our bodies are dirty and we're dirty if we happen to be naked?Another example was a girl at an Ann Summers party I did who was with her fella for five years, been engaged for two and they were to be married next summer. She confessed that he had never seen her arse without knickers on. She was so self conscious about her bottom not being small and pert that she wouldn't allow the guy she loved and was going to marry see her naked!??? :shock:
I don't know what my point it anymore... I've lost the plot tbh. :lol:
Gem. x
Sex God
first off, i'd like to make it clear that were it not for gem's pervy ways, i wouldn't allow the sport into my house! it's disgusting so it is!
but then . . . . you could argue that all the women who appear in it know exactly what they're doing, are often making a decent living out of it, and if anyone's exploiting someone, it's the women themselves who are exploiting men's weakness for vaguely titillating tat?
les, i agree 100% that is the airbrushed unreality that suggests that women should aspire to an impossible level of perfection that's more damaging. none of the women you see in vogue look anything like their piccies, not without good lighting, the best makeup artists, and someone a bit clever with photoshop retouching. and yet sadly many girls believe that if they don't look like that, then they are failing somehow? hence anorexia, bulimia, etc etc.
there's no doubt that the sport and the like portray women as mere sexual objects, but does it really create an attitude that leads to the sexual objectification of women, or does it simply pander to those who already see women in those terms?
neil x xx ;)
but then . . . . you could argue that all the women who appear in it know exactly what they're doing, are often making a decent living out of it, and if anyone's exploiting someone, it's the women themselves who are exploiting men's weakness for vaguely titillating tat?
les, i agree 100% that is the airbrushed unreality that suggests that women should aspire to an impossible level of perfection that's more damaging. none of the women you see in vogue look anything like their piccies, not without good lighting, the best makeup artists, and someone a bit clever with photoshop retouching. and yet sadly many girls believe that if they don't look like that, then they are failing somehow? hence anorexia, bulimia, etc etc.
there's no doubt that the sport and the like portray women as mere sexual objects, but does it really create an attitude that leads to the sexual objectification of women, or does it simply pander to those who already see women in those terms?
neil x xx ;)
Quote by neilinleeds
there's no doubt that the sport and the like portray women as mere sexual objects, but does it really create an attitude that leads to the sexual objectification of women, or does it simply pander to those who already see women in those terms?
neil x xx ;)
Food for thought - The 2 people on this thread who have admitted to buying the Sport are myself and Gem, so do we see woman as mere sexual objects????
Personally I see the woman in these magazines as strong, confident individuals, who aren't ashamed of their bodies.
Les x
Sex God
Quote by couple_ne2000
there's no doubt that the sport and the like portray women as mere sexual objects, but does it really create an attitude that leads to the sexual objectification of women, or does it simply pander to those who already see women in those terms?
neil x xx ;)
Food for thought - The 2 people on this thread who have admitted to buying the Sport are myself and Gem, so do we see woman as mere sexual objects????
Personally I see the woman in these magazines as strong, confident individuals, who aren't ashamed of their bodies.
Les x
I've no problem with things like Page 3 or the Sport, because the women getting paid for it know exactly what they are doing and they are quite often, as Les quite succintly says, strong, confident women. I find some of the celebs sprawled out in the main magazines, quite cardboard, boring and sheepy. At least the women with their baps out know who they are a bit more and just have the guts to say... this is me, with me baps out, wank over me or not cos I'm still getting paid.
I think it panders to those who already want to perve. Cos lets face it... if you wanted wholesome, good healthy news, not some light hearted shite about hamsters getting trapped in grids, then you'd buy and read one of the broadsheets. Like your guardian, times and the independant newspapers. :P
personally, the reasoning behind why I get the sport is for the shite make me laugh weird stories, nipple count and to look if there are any fit perving factor birds in there! 
ops: not a lot better than a man me, but at least I can admit to myself that I find some naked women attractive. A bonus I guess??? :dunno: At least I'm not in denial. :oops:Does that make me part of the implied degradation of my own gender though? Or does it just mean I'm an independant female exercising my rights to choice, freedoms or perviness and to claim back my own femininity through acknowledging that Glamour Models are getting paid quite well and I'm supporting my fellow sisterhood in their profession??? :dunno:
Gem, with any luck you'll get a good spanking for this if nothing else 
(after you finish that research 
) Sexlightened
Sorry haven't got the hang of doing part quotes need some lessons lol
I disagree with you littlegem in that i think a lot of English people are brought up to hide there bodies or are to self conscious,so would find it hard to even undress in front of friends let alone straighers.
I have a friend i have known for 10years yet when bra shopping i am not allowed to see her in a state of undress to say what i think about the fit.
The other thing you have to think about is that a lot of people are not happy with there bodies so there is know way that they want to put it on show to anyone.
I was brought up in a prudish family my mother would be shocked if i even walked around the house in my underwear, yet i have never had a problem being naked but i respect people that do.
I disagree with you littlegem in that i think a lot of English people are brought up to hide there bodies or are to self conscious,so would find it hard to even undress in front of friends let alone straighers.
I have a friend i have known for 10years yet when bra shopping i am not allowed to see her in a state of undress to say what i think about the fit.
The other thing you have to think about is that a lot of people are not happy with there bodies so there is know way that they want to put it on show to anyone.
I was brought up in a prudish family my mother would be shocked if i even walked around the house in my underwear, yet i have never had a problem being naked but i respect people that do.
