Have we still got free speech?

1 Dec 2008

Quote by Peanut
Maybe this can be a thread for the two of you to get your issues out and move on from the bickering for once? Seeing as you have a thread for free speech- let rip...

I have been involved in many threads without any bickering at all, it is only when others who are hell bent on causing problems, do these very problems occur.
Lets just keep to the original subject.
No, you're both as bad - six of one and half a dozen of the other. And I think it's very fair to say that it's annoying the hell out of a lot of members. Free speech notwithstanding, you're both spoiling the forum.
I agree, and in turn keeps those members in the 'can't be bothered to even read this shit anymore' frame of mind. rolleyes

And when they do read it they jump to the wrong conclusions :roll:
I rest my case.

1 Dec 2008

Quote by jaymar
Maybe this can be a thread for the two of you to get your issues out and move on from the bickering for once? Seeing as you have a thread for free speech- let rip...

I have been involved in many threads without any bickering at all, it is only when others who are hell bent on causing problems, do these very problems occur.
Lets just keep to the original subject.
No, you're both as bad - six of one and half a dozen of the other. And I think it's very fair to say that it's annoying the hell out of a lot of members. Free speech notwithstanding, you're both spoiling the forum.
I agree, and in turn keeps those members in the 'can't be bothered to even read this shit anymore' frame of mind. rolleyes

And when they do read it they jump to the wrong conclusions :roll:
I rest my case.
Shame it wasn't your fingers. :roll:

1 Dec 2008

Quote by jaymar
Maybe this can be a thread for the two of you to get your issues out and move on from the bickering for once? Seeing as you have a thread for free speech- let rip...

I have been involved in many threads without any bickering at all, it is only when others who are hell bent on causing problems, do these very problems occur.
Lets just keep to the original subject.
No, you're both as bad - six of one and half a dozen of the other. And I think it's very fair to say that it's annoying the hell out of a lot of members. Free speech notwithstanding, you're both spoiling the forum.
I agree, and in turn keeps those members in the 'can't be bothered to even read this shit anymore' frame of mind. rolleyes

Believe it or not but I have had over 40 mails from people asking me not to stop posting. What is really funny is there are 15 from people who I have never seen post a thing.
So whilst I agree there are some that get the arse, a lot of others dont....Can't please all of the people, all of the time.
If people can find forums where there are not heated discussions, then maybe that is the way to go for some? dunno

That was NOT aimed at you either Mar. x
I'm not aware of anyone being asked to stop posting, I haven't bothered looking at many of the threads lately and this one is one of the reasons why, but I have to add, it's the same 'very intelligent' people arguing all the time, it's long since past the stage of just heated discussions, it's now about scoring points against each other.
Everyone loves heated debates and discussions, but this is now beyond ridiculous.
Get over yourselves and have a Happy Christmas! wink

freck n jm, well said,
Kent n peanut- sort it out.
Kent, although i tend to disagree with a lot of your posts, I usually really enjoy reading them. Normally, you put across a well worded, coherent argument that gets me thinking, but of late I have to say it has come down the 'oneupmanship'.This means that the majority that want to join in with said 'heated discussions', don't because they're fed up of being stuck in the middle of the playground.
And no, i won;t go elsewher, i'm on this site because I'm a swinger, not because i want to spend my evening having heated discussions, the forum is just part of the community- it's that that i want to be part of, not the heated debates, and i feel not many people are getting that at the moment.

2 Dec 2008

I'll be on the side if you need me......... rolleyes

2 Dec 2008

Quote by mazandden
Kent n peanut- sort it out.

Why? Because you say so?
Yeah, right. rolleyes

Kent, although i tend to disagree with a lot of your posts, I usually really enjoy reading them. Normally, you put across a well worded, coherent argument that gets me thinking, but of late I have to say it has come down the 'oneupmanship'.This means that the majority that want to join in with said 'heated discussions', don't because they're fed up of being stuck in the middle of the playground.
And no, i won;t go elsewher, i'm on this site because I'm a swinger, not because i want to spend my evening having heated discussions, the forum is just part of the community- it's that that i want to be part of, not the heated debates, and i feel not many people are getting that at the moment.

No-one is asking you to go elsewhere.
But it may save your ire if you steer clear of those heated discussions/threads you dislike so much. No-one is forcing you to take part in them. If you dislike them so much then just skip them and take part in the fluffy threads. Or if you just want to do your swinging then perhaps you should stick to LMU.
I don't know about you but if there's a meal I don't like, I don't go and eat it then complain to the cook that it wasn't to my taste.
If you don't like the posts of certain posters, then just skip over them.
I for one won't be changing who I am or what I say just because you don't think I should.
Who are you to dictate what others say?
It's rather ironic that your diatribe appears in a Free Speech thread. :roll:
As has been already said, and this goes for the other moaners too... "Get over yourselves and have a Happy Christmas!"

2 Dec 2008

Free speech MUST apply to everyone.
What some may find abusive/offensive, some may agree with.
Abdul hamza preached his hate in the streets of north london for months before he was arrested, the BNP hand out leaflets and get arrested the same day.
Free speech? only if your left wing.

2 Dec 2008

Kent about free speech and Gaunty per the op.
I think when Gaunty first went on talk sport his phone in programmes were interesting there were some great debating topics that all could join in and express their opinions, yes he used to question differing opinions but I felt it was then left up to the listener to make their own opinions.
But as time has gone he has seen himself as someone bigger than he is which he has now come to realise he isn’t.
I don’t believe he was sacked for his political views, he was sacked because of his belief that he is always right, in whatever he said.
The interview in question where then he got sacked there was a great debate to be had there.
The debate was should people that smoke be able to foster children?
What Gaunty showed was the inability to control himself in the debate he was totally out of order, I agreed with him about people should be able to foster who smoke each should be taken on their own merit.
But he lost control.
What I believe makes a good interviewer is someone that raises questions lets people listen and make up their own minds to the debate, Gaunty always put his stance on things, so to me he was a leader of a gang and a bully and he had what he thought was enough people in his gang to back him up and help fight his cause, but at the end of the day he lost most of the people, as people with an open mind could see him for what he was, someone that couldn’t control his temper and was unable to reason.
He should have let people have free speech on his show.
I didn’t believe all that he stood for but he did raise some interesting debates.

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Theladyisaminx
Kent about free speech and Gaunty per the op.
I think when Gaunty first went on talk sport his phone in programmes were interesting there were some great debating topics that all could join in and express their opinions, yes he used to question differing opinions but I felt it was then left up to the listener to make their own opinions.
But as time has gone he has seen himself as someone bigger than he is which he has now come to realise he isn’t.
I don’t believe he was sacked for his political views, he was sacked because of his belief that he is always right, in whatever he said.
The interview in question where then he got sacked there was a great debate to be had there.
The debate was should people that smoke be able to foster children?
What Gaunty showed was the inability to control himself in the debate he was totally out of order, I agreed with him about people should be able to foster who smoke each should be taken on their own merit.
But he lost control.
What I believe makes a good interviewer is someone that raises questions lets people listen and make up their own minds to the debate, Gaunty always put his stance on things, so to me he was a leader of a gang and a bully and he had what he thought was enough people in his gang to back him up and help fight his cause, but at the end of the day he lost most of the people, as people with an open mind could see him for what he was, someone that couldn’t control his temper and was unable to reason.
He should have let people have free speech on his show.
I didn’t believe all that he stood for but he did raise some interesting debates.

And will be sorely missed.
He discussed things nobody else would. Topics very similar to the things I like to talk about on here. Whats wrong with talking about these things? dunno

Nearly every time I do a strong politicaly motivated thread, so many times someone has said something negative about it.
I am like Gaunty in my views, and not talking about strong issues like immigration and the like, will NOT make them go away.
Gaunty thought he was always right, because he was.....my opinion. Sometimes he came across as rude and arrogant but, a bit like on here, people are very emotive on certain subjects.

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Peanut

Kent n peanut- sort it out.

Why? Because you say so?
Yeah, right. rolleyes

Kent, although i tend to disagree with a lot of your posts, I usually really enjoy reading them. Normally, you put across a well worded, coherent argument that gets me thinking, but of late I have to say it has come down the 'oneupmanship'.This means that the majority that want to join in with said 'heated discussions', don't because they're fed up of being stuck in the middle of the playground.
And no, i won;t go elsewher, i'm on this site because I'm a swinger, not because i want to spend my evening having heated discussions, the forum is just part of the community- it's that that i want to be part of, not the heated debates, and i feel not many people are getting that at the moment.

No-one is asking you to go elsewhere.
But it may save your ire if you steer clear of those heated discussions/threads you dislike so much. No-one is forcing you to take part in them. If you dislike them so much then just skip them and take part in the fluffy threads. Or if you just want to do your swinging then perhaps you should stick to LMU.
I don't know about you but if there's a meal I don't like, I don't go and eat it then complain to the cook that it wasn't to my taste.
If you don't like the posts of certain posters, then just skip over them.
I for one won't be changing who I am or what I say just because you don't think I should.
Who are you to dictate what others say?
It's rather ironic that your diatribe appears in a Free Speech thread. :roll:
As has been already said, and this goes for the other moaners too... "Get over yourselves and have a Happy Christmas!"
To be honest I really could not have put that any better myself!
I may have not been told to stop posting but...I have had people maoning beacuse if quotes I have taken from the papers. So what?
As has been said if you do not like the content of a thread, by saying so you only add flames to the fire.....steer clear and that goes for anyone else who always has to have a moan. Free speech this thread is about, that falls within the AUP, which most times it does.

2 Dec 2008

So if someone actually does like the subject of any thread that may give rise to healthy debate they should steer clear of it just in case the usual happens and certain people take it upon themselves to make it a battleground dunno

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Steve
So if someone actually does like the subject of any thread that may give rise to healthy debate they should steer clear of it just in case the usual happens and certain people take it upon themselves to make it a battleground

seems about right Steve.... and to the finger remark earlier from the 'child'.... flipa

2 Dec 2008

OK, there was a 'just' missing from my last post- I meant that I'm a swinger, and not here 'just' for the heated debates of the forum, otherwise, I would go elsewhere.
But as a swinger wanting to get to know lots of people and the different views that they bring, I usually enjoy these debates, and i want to take part in all the forum posts, not just the 'fluffy' ones, but not when they're monopolised with dribble and one line digs.
If the posts actually were healthy debates, I would enjoy them, but at the moment, they're not. They're a playground battle zone between two people.
Where's the fun in that for everyone else? dunno

Instead, we have to weed through the arguments to get to the posts that don't have a hidden agenda.

2 Dec 2008

Quote by jaymar
So if someone actually does like the subject of any thread that may give rise to healthy debate they should steer clear of it just in case the usual happens and certain people take it upon themselves to make it a battleground

seems about right Steve.... and to the finger remark earlier from the 'child'.... flipa

:thumbup:

2 Dec 2008

It's getting harder to avoid the threads I don't want to be involved in lately as they all seem to be heading down a similar route sad

2 Dec 2008

I'd usually agree with that sentiment that if people don't like any particular thread, or any particular poster/s for that matter, then yeah, best option is to just avoid them, and find something / someone you do like.
Problem is, as an occasional poster I'd say it seems of late that most of those threads which might catch my interest, and quite a few of the ones that don't are descending by page 2 into what appears to be, quite frankly, a petty personal vendetta between two people intent on goading the other into a breach of AUP which is now spilling all over the forum. Even where the main protagonists do manage to avoid eachother and post elsewhere the combatative attitude adopted seems to be the primary posting mode used. That doesn't leave very much else of any real worth for anyone else to take part in, given that it makes it very difficult for other posters to steer a thread back on track, it's tedious to read, and it makes for a forum that's about as inviting as a wet weekend in Cleethorpes.
As far as free speech goes, I'm all for it. I use the forum as I see fit, so long as I'm within the AUP, but I was always firmly of the opinion that in life my freedom to swing my arms stops where someone else's nose begins. I'd tend to wonder whether my freedom to use the forum as I like was beginning to impact on others freedom to use it as they like? confused

Just my opinion. ;)
Neil x x x ;)

2 Dec 2008

LOL I've edited mine so it makes sense now Neil ... well up until the part in yours that says ... you know what I mean LOL.
But so you don't miss out ... worship

:worship:
:giggle:

2 Dec 2008

The 3 ironies in the current sub-thread.
1) This is a thread about free speech.
2) This is one thread where Kent and myself have NOT squabbled.
3) The self-righteous making comments about how Kent and myself make threads personal are doing the very thing they accuse us of.
This thread was very much on topic until you guys went off-topic and turned it into one about us. So once again you, Jaymar, FB, MnD etc are the ones who are being hypocritical in this instance.
So how about you guys giving it a rest and allow the ones who want to discuss the current topic to be able to discuss it without whingers and whiners spoiling the thread?

2 Dec 2008

I'd like the opportunity to have the freedom of speech that an adult site allows without being called names because of my opinion. I think that's my right just as it is anyone else's right.
It's not too much to ask, or is it? dunno

How free am I not to be referred to as a "namsy pamsy liberal leftie" from someone who knows nothing about my political views?
How free am I not to be referred to as a whinger or a whiner because I have a valid opinion on a topic that doesn't fall within someone else's views?
How free is that?

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Dirtygirlie
I'd like the opportunity to have the freedom of speech that an adult site allows without being called names because of my opinion. I think that's my right just as it is anyone else's right.
It's not too much to ask, or is it?
How free am I not to be referred to as a "namsy pamsy liberal leftie" from someone who knows nothing about my political views?
How free am I not to be referred to as a whinger or a whiner because I have a valid opinion on a topic that doesn't fall within someone else's views?
How free is that?

No-one ever said that free speech ever had to be to everyone's taste.
The freedom you are referring to has absolutely nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with your own choices and decisions.

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Peanut
I'd like the opportunity to have the freedom of speech that an adult site allows without being called names because of my opinion. I think that's my right just as it is anyone else's right.
It's not too much to ask, or is it?
How free am I not to be referred to as a "namsy pamsy liberal leftie" from someone who knows nothing about my political views?
How free am I not to be referred to as a whinger or a whiner because I have a valid opinion on a topic that doesn't fall within someone else's views?
How free is that?

No-one ever said that free speech ever had to be to everyone's taste.
The freedom you are referring to has absolutely nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with your own choices and decisions.
Which is why I don't expect to be called names for exercising my right to have that freedom of speech which is allowed here within the AUP. :mrgreen:
So in fact it has everything to do with free speech in my view, just not in yours. It doesn't mean I have to call you names to prove my side of the discussion now does it?! wink

2 Dec 2008

Who the fuck is this Gaunty?? dunno

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Mr-Powers
Who the fuck is this Gaunty??

An EX radio show presenter who tried to use freedom of speech as a get out clause for being OTT

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Dirtygirlie
I'd like the opportunity to have the freedom of speech that an adult site allows without being called names because of my opinion. I think that's my right just as it is anyone else's right.
It's not too much to ask, or is it?
How free am I not to be referred to as a "namsy pamsy liberal leftie" from someone who knows nothing about my political views?
How free am I not to be referred to as a whinger or a whiner because I have a valid opinion on a topic that doesn't fall within someone else's views?
How free is that?

No-one ever said that free speech ever had to be to everyone's taste.
The freedom you are referring to has absolutely nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with your own choices and decisions.
Which is why I don't expect to be called names for exercising my right to have that freedom of speech which is allowed here within the AUP. :mrgreen:
So in fact it has everything to do with free speech in my view, just not in yours. It doesn't mean I have to call you names to prove my side of the discussion now does it?! wink

Just because you choose not to exercise aspects of YOUR free speech does not mean that others have to match your restraint. That's just not how it works.
This is what I meant by choice and decisions. Free speech is a fact (though also an illusion) what you seem to be referring to is 'free hearing' of which there is no such thing. You have to exercise your own personal freedom of walking away from something that you hear and don't like.
You can't insist that someone doesn't say something just because you don't like it. If that were the case then you would be infringing THEIR right to free speech.
PS you also have to distinguish between being personally insulted by being called a name and being part of a group that is referred to by a possibly derogatory name. There's a big difference, especially with regard to the AUP.

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Steve
Who the fuck is this Gaunty??

An EX radio show presenter who tried to use freedom of speech as a get out clause for being OTT
what one of those guys who like to shove their views down your throat...and your considered a cunt if you disagree with them...or ridiculed on their radio station!

2 Dec 2008

I said I was going to stay out of this thread after it went "political" ....
like I said before.... there is a difference between free speech, and free speech with responsability
I will defend anyones right to free speech, but in return I expect people to be aware of the the reactions and ramification of exactly what that has on other people
if you dont agree with people...explain why
I don't expect people to be belittled, or mocked or to be called names..... god we are adults!!!
the other problem with forums is that some people just don't know when to walk away and always feel as it they have to have the last word.....
points scoring may work in boxing, but on forums.. not to much
and yes, like callie, there are times when I see that certain people have posted I do think twice or three times about posting.....expecially in interesting topics because you know that at any time a bumfight could just break out....
I am here to have fun first and foremost.... and sometimes it just isn't that......

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Mr-Powers
Who the fuck is this Gaunty??

An EX radio show presenter who tried to use freedom of speech as a get out clause for being OTT
what one of those guys who like to shove their views down your throat...and your considered a cunt if you disagree with them...or ridiculed on their radio station!
Summat like that yes :lol2:

2 Dec 2008

Quote by fabio
I said I was going to stay out of this thread after it went "political" ....

Which says to me that you don't truly understand what "political" means.

like I said before.... there is a difference between free speech, and free speech with responsability

Since when?
Free speech is free speech, it doesn't come with any responsibilities, only limitations.

I will defend anyones right to free speech, but in return I expect people to be aware of the the reactions and ramification of exactly what that has on other people

Ah, so you're an indian giver then? You'll only defend someone if you get something out of it?

if you dont agree with people...explain why

Where do the rules state that?

I don't expect people to be belittled, or mocked or to be called names..... god we are adults!!!

Since when do one's expectations mean anything other than to the person expecting them?

the other problem with forums is that some people just don't know when to walk away and always feel as it they have to have the last word.....

An common misconception usually promulgated by people who lose in debates.

points scoring may work in boxing, but on forums.. not to much

Those points you refer to are purely imaginary, most commonly by the people who don't win any.

and yes, like callie, there are times when I see that certain people have posted I do think twice or three times about posting.....expecially in interesting topics because you know that at any time a bumfight could just break out....

At which time you are quite free to apply your freedom of choice...

I am here to have fun first and foremost.... and sometimes it just isn't that......

Ahhh, so you expect others to entertain you and if they don't you moan? Got it, cheers.

2 Dec 2008

and thank you for proving my point.... I'm out of here
it's just not worth the hassle

2 Dec 2008

Quote by Peanut
I said I was going to stay out of this thread after it went "political" ....

Which says to me that you don't truly understand what "political" means.

like I said before.... there is a difference between free speech, and free speech with responsability

Since when?
Free speech is free speech, it doesn't come with any responsibilities, only limitations.

I will defend anyones right to free speech, but in return I expect people to be aware of the the reactions and ramification of exactly what that has on other people

Ah, so you're an indian giver then? You'll only defend someone if you get something out of it?

if you dont agree with people...explain why

Where do the rules state that?

I don't expect people to be belittled, or mocked or to be called names..... god we are adults!!!

Since when do one's expectations mean anything other than to the person expecting them?

the other problem with forums is that some people just don't know when to walk away and always feel as it they have to have the last word.....

An common misconception usually promulgated by people who lose in debates.

points scoring may work in boxing, but on forums.. not to much

Those points you refer to are purely imaginary, most commonly by the people who don't win any.

and yes, like callie, there are times when I see that certain people have posted I do think twice or three times about posting.....expecially in interesting topics because you know that at any time a bumfight could just break out....

At which time you are quite free to apply your freedom of choice...

I am here to have fun first and foremost.... and sometimes it just isn't that......

Ahhh, so you expect others to entertain you and if they don't you moan? Got it, cheers.
Thanks for proving so many peoples point.....Again :thumbup:

2 Dec 2008

Pack it in the lot of you, or you will all get a slapped bottom. Now play nice and stop yer bickering wink