Quote by Steve
Thanks for proving so many peoples point.....Again :thumbup:
Quite a counter-argument you both have there.
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Have we still got free speech?
Never have I been so disappointed with SH as I am right now 
It is my choice to stay or go, it is my choice to take part in a thread or avoid it! However, it appears to me that those choices are being eroded by little more than forum bullies! Intent on causing discontent, who fail to step back and give other people the right to choose but instead foist their 'right' to an opinion on others and then pick apart anyone who dares to challenge them.
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
It is my choice to stay or go, it is my choice to take part in a thread or avoid it! However, it appears to me that those choices are being eroded by little more than forum bullies! Intent on causing discontent, who fail to step back and give other people the right to choose but instead foist their 'right' to an opinion on others and then pick apart anyone who dares to challenge them.I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
Sex God
Quote by Calista
Never have I been so disappointed with SH as I am right now
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
Same over here Cal.....
:( well, I have had the day off work as I frantically use my holidays. I drove 40 miles to see worlass and have lunch and I drove the 40 miles back.
I am thinking that I should really go and clean out the fireplace ready to light a fire but before I do that I am going to have a wank.
I have exercised my right to free speech.
ummm does anyone want to join me. I don't actually mean join me physically. I mean simultaneous wanking.
I am thinking that I should really go and clean out the fireplace ready to light a fire but before I do that I am going to have a wank.
I have exercised my right to free speech.
ummm does anyone want to join me. I don't actually mean join me physically. I mean simultaneous wanking.
:lol:
Sex God
Quote by Calista
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
I am sorry you are disapointed in how we are handling this but if we allow the bickering, we are wrong, it we stop the bickering we are wrong. Its one of those situations where we cant do right for doing wrong. All we can do is ensure that the AUP is not being broken and that the people involved do not let their argumentative behaviour become personally insulting towards any other member of the site.
The back bitting and bickering is also pissing me off and a few times I have hovered over the cancel account button as I am just sick of it all as well.
The right to free speech doesn't exonerate the speaker from thinking about how that free speech has an effect on others either. It doesn't give the speaker the right to belittle, abuse, slander, be racist, ageist or discriminate.
There is some accountability with free speech, unfortunately people forget the responsibilty to use their right in a way that is uplifting, encouraging, inspirational etc when they start demanding that it is there right regardless!n
There is some accountability with free speech, unfortunately people forget the responsibilty to use their right in a way that is uplifting, encouraging, inspirational etc when they start demanding that it is there right regardless!n
Only just spotted this topic, but damn good one I'd say.
Somebody mentioned earlier that there's a difference between free speech and assuming a license to be abusive. Well yes, I agree with that. However, when you take pure speech or text alone, it's not really possible to determine the 'intent' r the motive behind the words.
"you are a nazi" can be deliberately provocative, but it can equally be accurate, or at least someone's opinion.
"All men are stupid" - the same applies. Of course it's an easy statement to make if you want to provoke a reaction, but perhaps, however incredible it may sound, someone could be making a genuine point of view.
How do we know the intent?
This leads is to a very sticky wicket indeed.... because 'Freedom of expression' is countered / constrained by the interpretation of either a) The masses, or b) authority (police, government etc).
There can never really be true freedom of expression as long as that expression is subject to potential recrimination.
Do I worry about that? a little.
On the one hand, I want to stand up and say if folks want to say or write something, then they should be allowed to do so.
Do I want some guy shouting outside a school playground "do you like my cock?" - No.
Already I'm working out justifications in my mind for why the guy should NOT be allowed to say what he likes.... "the kids aren't in a position to judge", "he's abusing his privilege for the sole purpose of his own gratification, or to corrupt minors" etc...
Because I don't like it, and society wouldn't like it..... I want him shut up.
There's a censor in us all. And we can never be free because of it.
Somebody mentioned earlier that there's a difference between free speech and assuming a license to be abusive. Well yes, I agree with that. However, when you take pure speech or text alone, it's not really possible to determine the 'intent' r the motive behind the words.
"you are a nazi" can be deliberately provocative, but it can equally be accurate, or at least someone's opinion.
"All men are stupid" - the same applies. Of course it's an easy statement to make if you want to provoke a reaction, but perhaps, however incredible it may sound, someone could be making a genuine point of view.
How do we know the intent?
This leads is to a very sticky wicket indeed.... because 'Freedom of expression' is countered / constrained by the interpretation of either a) The masses, or b) authority (police, government etc).
There can never really be true freedom of expression as long as that expression is subject to potential recrimination.
Do I worry about that? a little.
On the one hand, I want to stand up and say if folks want to say or write something, then they should be allowed to do so.
Do I want some guy shouting outside a school playground "do you like my cock?" - No.
Already I'm working out justifications in my mind for why the guy should NOT be allowed to say what he likes.... "the kids aren't in a position to judge", "he's abusing his privilege for the sole purpose of his own gratification, or to corrupt minors" etc...
Because I don't like it, and society wouldn't like it..... I want him shut up.
There's a censor in us all. And we can never be free because of it.
Right this thread has gone over the top, funnily enough not by me or Peanut but by others who are having a go at the both of us.
On page one there is a comment that says " Maybe this can be a thread for the two of you to get your issues out and move on from the bickering for once? Seeing as you have a thread for free speech- let rip "
Where did that come from and why was it used? We all have a right here to free speech as does that poster but....I feel there was no need for it at all. It was the start of yet another thread degenerating into bickering. Myself and Peanut have not said anything here against each other, and come to mention it we have not for a while now.
People are attacking the both of us, but are just as gulity on this thread.
The great thing about this site is that you are allowed to say things as long as they fall within the AUP. There have been some pretty nasty remarks aimed at ME in this thread, but cleverly have not actually mentioned my name.
I am ok with that, I respect peoples right to a viewpoint and an opinion, but when people come into a thread with nothing more than " put downs " which some have, then they are as guilty of the very people they are moaning about.
Check back from page one and see for yourselves. There is certainly inuendos aimed at me, and I do not suffer from being paranoid.
This thread for me has shown that people want free speech as long as it does not offend them, whatever their interpretations are of the word offend. As I have said I do respect peoples right to free speech...maybe I can be a " sanctimonius arsehole " too but you sometimes have to pay a price for free speech, even if it is someones anger.
I hope it can stay on topic.
On page one there is a comment that says " Maybe this can be a thread for the two of you to get your issues out and move on from the bickering for once? Seeing as you have a thread for free speech- let rip "
Where did that come from and why was it used? We all have a right here to free speech as does that poster but....I feel there was no need for it at all. It was the start of yet another thread degenerating into bickering. Myself and Peanut have not said anything here against each other, and come to mention it we have not for a while now.
People are attacking the both of us, but are just as gulity on this thread.
The great thing about this site is that you are allowed to say things as long as they fall within the AUP. There have been some pretty nasty remarks aimed at ME in this thread, but cleverly have not actually mentioned my name.
I am ok with that, I respect peoples right to a viewpoint and an opinion, but when people come into a thread with nothing more than " put downs " which some have, then they are as guilty of the very people they are moaning about.
Check back from page one and see for yourselves. There is certainly inuendos aimed at me, and I do not suffer from being paranoid.
This thread for me has shown that people want free speech as long as it does not offend them, whatever their interpretations are of the word offend. As I have said I do respect peoples right to free speech...maybe I can be a " sanctimonius arsehole " too but you sometimes have to pay a price for free speech, even if it is someones anger.
I hope it can stay on topic.
Quote by Calista
I used the sanctimonius arseholes comment and as clarified at the time did not mention any names! You can attribute who you want to the label but that fact stands, if you think it was about you then that is down to how you have taken it rather than me being specific!
So how is that any different to the "namby pamby left wingers" usage?
There are definite double standards here it seem, nay hypocrisy.
How about we join your fluffy threads and disrupt them as you have done to this thread? Would that be a fair use of free speech do you think?
Quote by Calista
The right to free speech doesn't exonerate the speaker from thinking about how that free speech has an effect on others either. It doesn't give the speaker the right to belittle, abuse, slander, be racist, ageist or discriminate.
There is some accountability with free speech, unfortunately people forget the responsibilty to use their right in a way that is uplifting, encouraging, inspirational etc when they start demanding that it is there right regardless!n
If you really feel you are in a position to redefine "free" then go at it girl. I'll see if I can get the OED contributions address for you.
I suspect it will only end in frustration though.
Quote by Calista
Never have I been so disappointed with SH as I am right now
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
Choice is choice, no-one said you had to like them, just that you have the right to choose whichever one you feel is best for you.
Even I have to agree that the Gaunty interview was over the top.
I have listened to Gaunty for a while now and he has got close to the mark on many occasions. But I still feel that his choice of wording did not warrant the sack.
As I have already said, Wossy has kept his job even though I feel that what he did and said was far worse than Gaunty did.
Gaunty was a major player in the free speech debate and now that has been taken away, and I for one have seen another strong thinker and sayer bite the dust. Soon you will have to write a script just to make sure you do not say anything to upset anybody.
I have listened to Gaunty for a while now and he has got close to the mark on many occasions. But I still feel that his choice of wording did not warrant the sack.
As I have already said, Wossy has kept his job even though I feel that what he did and said was far worse than Gaunty did.
Gaunty was a major player in the free speech debate and now that has been taken away, and I for one have seen another strong thinker and sayer bite the dust. Soon you will have to write a script just to make sure you do not say anything to upset anybody.
Quote by Peanut
Never have I been so disappointed with SH as I am right now
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
Choice is choice, no-one said you had to like them, just that you have the right to choose whichever one you feel is best for you.
Neither is best for me actually, being forced to take action is not necessarily through choice!
Quote by Calista
Never have I been so disappointed with SH as I am right now
I am disappointed with the mods and admin who seem ineffective at preventing the mudslinging and are allowing so few to spoil what is a great community.
Forums and people move on and this isn't a harkening to days long gone, but I know I'm not alone when I sigh when visiting the forum, I choose to stay because I maintain that this is the best Swingers site on the web, I come here to make friends (and hopefully lovers) not to make enemies or read bickering. The forums have long been my home here, however increasingly I feel ill at ease or sad instead of uplifted, or being able to join in with the flirting or fun.
I have two choices stay or go :( If I stay I fear watching further erosion of the forum, if I go then I'll miss friends and the community and I fear our swinging days will be over :(
Some choice!
Choice is choice, no-one said you had to like them, just that you have the right to choose whichever one you feel is best for you.
Neither is best for me actually, being forced to take action is not necessarily through choice!
Of course it is, your choice is to take action or not. Which one you do is totally up to you to choose and no-one else.
See? That's free choice!
Now, how about a comment from yourself about how you complain about name-calling whilst doing it yourself...
...or are you going to use free choice and gloss over that one?
Sex God
Kent
I too listened to Jon Gaunt in his early days and initially thought he was great raising and debating what others would not but personally I think he started to believe his own bullshit. The book about himself, the way he championed himself as a spokesman for the ordinary man and suddenly he became a bit too full of his own self importance. Healthy debate became hostile aggression and his manner of dismissing people who did not agree with him was very, very offensive to listen to.
From being a big fan I started to switch off after the Breakfast Show and always felt it inevitable that he would sooner or later go a step too far and pay the price. I don't think he got the sack just for the Nazi jibe but that was maybe the straw that broke the camels back. I think his aggresive style became an embarrassment to Talk Sport and this was their opportunity to 'bin the maverick.'
Personally, I don't think it is about freedom of speech at all - he just became too big for his boots and thought he was bigger than the programme, bigger than Talk Sport and better and more informed than everyone else. The problem is that he was none of those things and his employer did the right thing because of his inability to broadcast socially acceptable content.
I too listened to Jon Gaunt in his early days and initially thought he was great raising and debating what others would not but personally I think he started to believe his own bullshit. The book about himself, the way he championed himself as a spokesman for the ordinary man and suddenly he became a bit too full of his own self importance. Healthy debate became hostile aggression and his manner of dismissing people who did not agree with him was very, very offensive to listen to.
From being a big fan I started to switch off after the Breakfast Show and always felt it inevitable that he would sooner or later go a step too far and pay the price. I don't think he got the sack just for the Nazi jibe but that was maybe the straw that broke the camels back. I think his aggresive style became an embarrassment to Talk Sport and this was their opportunity to 'bin the maverick.'
Personally, I don't think it is about freedom of speech at all - he just became too big for his boots and thought he was bigger than the programme, bigger than Talk Sport and better and more informed than everyone else. The problem is that he was none of those things and his employer did the right thing because of his inability to broadcast socially acceptable content.
Quote by kentswingers777
Even I have to agree that the Gaunty interview was over the top.
I have listened to Gaunty for a while now and he has got close to the mark on many occasions. But I still feel that his choice of wording did not warrant the sack.
As I have already said, Wossy has kept his job even though I feel that what he did and said was far worse than Gaunty did.
Gaunty was a major player in the free speech debate and now that has been taken away, and I for one have seen another strong thinker and sayer bite the dust. Soon you will have to write a script just to make sure you do not say anything to upset anybody.
Where have I complained about name calling? Ooh the bit about forum bullies? Could be about anyone really couldn't it?
I just find it hilarious that you and Kenty are the only ones who feel that it's directed at you, when there has been mudslinging by various people throughout the thread! What's worse snideyness or name calling?
Of course, there is the stand of playing Devil's Advocate! As you two seem to play that way, others join in and then you start bickering and whining back? Is that not what you criticised other people about? Is that hypocrisy creeping in there?
I just find it hilarious that you and Kenty are the only ones who feel that it's directed at you, when there has been mudslinging by various people throughout the thread! What's worse snideyness or name calling?
Of course, there is the stand of playing Devil's Advocate! As you two seem to play that way, others join in and then you start bickering and whining back? Is that not what you criticised other people about? Is that hypocrisy creeping in there?
Quote by Calista
Where have I complained about name calling? Ooh the bit about forum bullies? Could be about anyone really couldn't it?
I just find it hilarious that you and Kenty are the only ones who feel that it's directed at you, when there has been mudslinging by various people throughout the thread! What's worse snideyness or name calling?
Of course, there is the stand of playing Devil's Advocate! As you two seem to play that way, others join in and then you start bickering and whining back? Is that not what you criticised other people about? Is that hypocrisy creeping in there?
No hypocrisy here. People will always know where they stand with me.
The complainers and whingers are all off-topic, and for some unknown reason chose a thread where there was no squabbling... that is until MaznDen started moaning about something that didn't exist. Then the self-righteous arrived and the whole thread went to shit.
Quote by Calista
Where have I complained about name calling? Ooh the bit about forum bullies? Could be about anyone really couldn't it?
I just find it hilarious that you and Kenty are the only ones who feel that it's directed at you, when there has been mudslinging by various people throughout the thread! What's worse snideyness or name calling?
Of course, there is the stand of playing Devil's Advocate! As you two seem to play that way, others join in and then you start bickering and whining back? Is that not what you criticised other people about? Is that hypocrisy creeping in there?
uh! :dunno:
Quote by Peanut
The complainers and whingers are all off-topic, and for some unknown reason chose a thread where there was no squabbling
That used to be known as hijacking, a lost art unfortunately
Maybe all the humour disappeared with the sunshine .. ahh crap there hasn't been any this year ... that'll be the answer!!! Sorry off at a tangent there
Hijacking was pure bollox, but complainers and whingers ruined that too, again free speech surpressed!
I don't believe there is freedom of speech, to say what you feel enevitably (sp?) upsets one person or another, I'm narked at you, you get narked at me and then the world and his army join in .... bit like this thread really!
I stand by what I said earlier through, free speech does not absolve a person from acting responsibly.
Quote by Too Hot
Kent
I too listened to Jon Gaunt in his early days and initially thought he was great raising and debating what others would not but personally I think he started to believe his own bullshit. The book about himself, the way he championed himself as a spokesman for the ordinary man and suddenly he became a bit too full of his own self importance. Healthy debate became hostile aggression and his manner of dismissing people who did not agree with him was very, very offensive to listen to.
From being a big fan I started to switch off after the Breakfast Show and always felt it inevitable that he would sooner or later go a step too far and pay the price. I don't think he got the sack just for the Nazi jibe but that was maybe the straw that broke the camels back. I think his aggresive style became an embarrassment to Talk Sport and this was their opportunity to 'bin the maverick.'
Personally, I don't think it is about freedom of speech at all - he just became too big for his boots and thought he was bigger than the programme, bigger than Talk Sport and better and more informed than everyone else. The problem is that he was none of those things and his employer did the right thing because of his inability to broadcast socially acceptable content.
Even I have to agree that the Gaunty interview was over the top.
I have listened to Gaunty for a while now and he has got close to the mark on many occasions. But I still feel that his choice of wording did not warrant the sack.
As I have already said, Wossy has kept his job even though I feel that what he did and said was far worse than Gaunty did.
Gaunty was a major player in the free speech debate and now that has been taken away, and I for one have seen another strong thinker and sayer bite the dust. Soon you will have to write a script just to make sure you do not say anything to upset anybody.
Not socially acceptable to who? The radio owners or the people he slagged off, and mainly rightly so.
The trouble is with some listeners is they did not know how the game was played. If you wanted to go onto his show then you really had to get your facts right. For like Galloway if you did not have the facts, they could and would both slate you.
For me Gaunty spoke about the important issues out there, you know the ones that others would rather sweep under the carpet, or just hope they go away. He had guts on many a day to raise issues like that and when people like him are silenced from their views then free speech has lost its arguement.
Quote by Calista
The complainers and whingers are all off-topic, and for some unknown reason chose a thread where there was no squabbling
That used to be known as hijacking, a lost art unfortunately
Maybe all the humour disappeared with the sunshine .. ahh crap there hasn't been any this year ... that'll be the answer!!! Sorry off at a tangent there
Hijacking was pure bollox, but complainers and whingers ruined that too, again free speech surpressed!
I don't believe there is freedom of speech, to say what you feel enevitably (sp?) upsets one person or another, I'm narked at you, you get narked at me and then the world and his army join in .... bit like this thread really!
I stand by what I said earlier through, free speech does not absolve a person from acting responsibly.
Free speech does not have any responsibilities, only limitations.
One only has free speech depending on what one wants to say.
Do you think the rights of the BNP should stop because they offend the sensibilities of others? I don't. I don't agree with the crap they spout but the price of having free speech is that sometimes you hear things you don't want to hear. It's as simple as that.
So no, I don't agree at all with what you said above.
PS: I apologise, you were correct, you didn't say anything about name calling. I'd confused you with someone else.
Sex God
Taste of own medicine, perhaps?
Sex God
So long sad times
Go long bad times
We are rid of you at last
Howdy gay times
Cloudy gray times
You are now a thing of the past
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again
Altogether shout it now
There's no one
Who can doubt it now
So let's tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again
Your cares and troubles are gone
There'll be no more from now on
From now on...
Happy days are here again
The skies above are here again
So, let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy times
Happy nights
Happy days
Are here again!
(In episode The Jungle Patrol)
Go long bad times
We are rid of you at last
Howdy gay times
Cloudy gray times
You are now a thing of the past
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again
Altogether shout it now
There's no one
Who can doubt it now
So let's tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again
Your cares and troubles are gone
There'll be no more from now on
From now on...
Happy days are here again
The skies above are here again
So, let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy times
Happy nights
Happy days
Are here again!
(In episode The Jungle Patrol)
