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Have we still got free speech?

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The wind is blowing
It is blowing very hard
I don't like the wind.
(it's a haiku- it doesn't have to rhyme wink )
Quote by mazandden
The wind is blowing
It is blowing very hard
I don't like the wind.
(it's a haiku- it doesn't have to rhyme wink )

Bloody brilliant, Maz!
Have you tried Wind-eze?
Have we still got free speech?
"benrums0n wrote:
I have just been reading yet another thread where the "This is my opinion" excuse is used to justify a post that either insults previous posters or states ill informed opinion as fact.
I find this irritating. Does anybody else have an opinion?"
Apparently not. biggrin:D:D:D
Quote by Peanut
The 3 ironies in the current sub-thread.
1) This is a thread about free speech.
2) This is one thread where Kent and myself have NOT squabbled.
3) The self-righteous making comments about how Kent and myself make threads personal are doing the very thing they accuse us of.
This thread was very much on topic until you guys went off-topic and turned it into one about us. So once again you, Jaymar, FB, MnD etc are the ones who are being hypocritical in this instance.
So how about you guys giving it a rest and allow the ones who want to discuss the current topic to be able to discuss it without whingers and whiners spoiling the thread?

I can live with that. Particularly as I've never been banned for anything on SH, especially with regard to forum posts - so what you see as hypocritical, others may agree with but be unwilling to post in agreement with because they don't want to be turned on, by you. dunno
Count your blessings instead of your crosses;
Count your gains instead of your losses.
Count your joys instead of your woes;
Count your friends instead of your foes.
Count your smiles instead of your tears;
Count your courage instead of your fears.
Count your full years instead of your lean;
Count your kind deeds instead of your mean.
Count your health instead of your wealth;
Love your neighbour as much as yourself.
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I don't give a flying f*ck about all this tbh - at the moment (or maybe/obviously i do) there is some posting thats crap out of order just there for scoring points in the disguise of opinion fact fiction politics Science b*stard fiction I don't care what fucking ever.
Luckily there is some well good stuff going down in and on the sidelines.
No one is going to come right out say what they really think or what their opinion really is because they love this place and, like I, don't want to risk a slap. God how i wish sometimes I ran the place because by now there would of been a few slaps big time. Good job I aint really it would be shite
The stuff going on now can't even be put down to novice or newbie first posting steps it really is bang out of order.
The opinions and facts of the down right arroganct can go fuck themselves up the arse in some of these multi quote nur nur i'm better than you posts. Bollox to those doing this sh*te they need burping and putting in their cots no matter how actually correct they are. Cant it be seen that some posters don't bother on serious posts just to be told the absolute letter of the law/language and that they are unintelligent useless people, lectured again and again about their inadequacy in how they say/put/approach a subject. Maybe once in a while, OK, but time after time after time. It becomes a crashing bore perpetrated by crashing bores.
I am in no way sinless guiltless of crap stuff but i do however try to think from the others perspective once in a while. I have been slapped and slapped back but not do it topic after topic post after post after post.
To those that do this clever clever stuff do you ever think that it comes acreoss to others that your that clever? and do you never have an iota of self reflection and control. Are you happy with what you post? Most of the time your posting just to see your own stupid sanctomonious words on the screen, maybe as i do mine now, though boy am i going to kick myself later for puttingthis but hey 3 home measure whiskies and i'm ready to fly tonight guilty of posting under the influence probably. There are very few this rant applies to very very few and those few, couple, one, two or three people (god i'm caging my bets) but they will know who, can just go shag em selves
this is my words they're probably not facts they might not be opinions but they are my words good or bad and if they make me look like a wanker nobody needs to define that in to me i'm happy to accept that fact.
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox!
Quote by Lost
...and if they make me look like a wanker nobody needs to define that in to me i'm happy to accept that fact.
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox!

drinkies Can you email me one of whatever you are drinking? :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
You see losty, you can have free speech on here. lol
But then according to the AUP excessive profanity will NOT be tolerated. So we can all break the rules sometimes.
lol 777 Do you really think thats excessive? :lol2: I could find a vocation i think in teaching profanity to PHD.
As for opinion? I like a pickled one with Cheddar and a FRENCH STICK (bollox to the baguette word) biggrin
Quote by Lost
lol 777 Do you really think thats excessive? :lol2: I could find a vocation i think in teaching profanity to PHD.
As for opinion? I like a pickled one with Cheddar and a FRENCH STICK (bollox to the baguette word) biggrin

I have heard worse Losty. :lol:
I prefere a German sausage with pickle meself. :lol:
Quote by kentswingers777
Kent about free speech and Gaunty per the op.
I think when Gaunty first went on talk sport his phone in programmes were interesting there were some great debating topics that all could join in and express their opinions, yes he used to question differing opinions but I felt it was then left up to the listener to make their own opinions.
But as time has gone he has seen himself as someone bigger than he is which he has now come to realise he isn’t.
I don’t believe he was sacked for his political views, he was sacked because of his belief that he is always right, in whatever he said.
The interview in question where then he got sacked there was a great debate to be had there.
The debate was should people that smoke be able to foster children?
What Gaunty showed was the inability to control himself in the debate he was totally out of order, I agreed with him about people should be able to foster who smoke each should be taken on their own merit.
But he lost control.
What I believe makes a good interviewer is someone that raises questions lets people listen and make up their own minds to the debate, Gaunty always put his stance on things, so to me he was a leader of a gang and a bully and he had what he thought was enough people in his gang to back him up and help fight his cause, but at the end of the day he lost most of the people, as people with an open mind could see him for what he was, someone that couldn’t control his temper and was unable to reason.
He should have let people have free speech on his show.
I didn’t believe all that he stood for but he did raise some interesting debates.

And will be sorely missed.
Maybe he will but he should never personally attack people that were only adding a counter debate to topics that were raised.
He discussed things nobody else would. Topics very similar to the things I like to talk about on here. Whats wrong with talking about these things? dunno
Nothing is wrong with discussing topics, what was wrong was the way it ended up with a personal insult being hurled.
Nearly every time I do a strong politicaly motivated thread, so many times someone has said something negative about it.
Strong politically motivated threads are fine, but if you raise a thread surely it is to open a debate, to debate is to listen to each others counter debate, but never stoop to person insults if someone does not agree with you,
why open a debate if all you want to hear from are people that agree with you?
Is this really then a debate?
Or just trying to do what Gaunty tryed to do?
That was to lead like minded people.
Because if you didn’t agree with Gaunty he would just be rude, insult people, or just hang up.
That is hardly a healthy debate, to debate is the willingness to listen to all points of view is it not?
Isn’t this thread about freedom of speech?

I am like Gaunty in my views, and not talking about strong issues like immigration and the like, will NOT make them go away.
Gaunty thought he was always right, because he was.....my opinion. Sometimes he came across as rude and arrogant but, a bit like on here, people are very emotive on certain subjects.

You don’t have to be rude and or arrogant to get a point across.
You just have to have a logical answer why you think you are right,
777 Nobody is always right, and if you believe that. That is your opinion.
If you think he was always right then you must agree he was right to call that guy a Nazi.
But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink
Quote by Theladyisaminx
But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink

the art of good debate often involves "put downs", mockery and ridicule.....
has anyone ever watched The House of Commons
thats why i stay away from debates on the SH forums these days....
some people cant take it......or seem to think that feining offence is gonna bail them out ....
therefore, sadly, i'm not prepared to "spar" with people who arent prepared to take what they dish out themselves.
or be critisized for giving back as good... or maybe better by those who have no idea what is a difference of opinion and a full blown row.
Quote by Lost
I don't give a flying f*ck about all this tbh - at the moment (or maybe/obviously i do) there is some posting thats crap out of order just there for scoring points in the disguise of opinion fact fiction politics Science b*stard fiction I don't care what fucking ever.
Luckily there is some well good stuff going down in and on the sidelines.
No one is going to come right out say what they really think or what their opinion really is because they love this place and, like I, don't want to risk a slap. God how i wish sometimes I ran the place because by now there would of been a few slaps big time. Good job I aint really it would be shite
The stuff going on now can't even be put down to novice or newbie first posting steps it really is bang out of order.
The opinions and facts of the down right arroganct can go fuck themselves up the arse in some of these multi quote nur nur i'm better than you posts. Bollox to those doing this sh*te they need burping and putting in their cots no matter how actually correct they are. Cant it be seen that some posters don't bother on serious posts just to be told the absolute letter of the law/language and that they are unintelligent useless people, lectured again and again about their inadequacy in how they say/put/approach a subject. Maybe once in a while, OK, but time after time after time. It becomes a crashing bore perpetrated by crashing bores.
I am in no way sinless guiltless of crap stuff but i do however try to think from the others perspective once in a while. I have been slapped and slapped back but not do it topic after topic post after post after post.
To those that do this clever clever stuff do you ever think that it comes acreoss to others that your that clever? and do you never have an iota of self reflection and control. Are you happy with what you post? Most of the time your posting just to see your own stupid sanctomonious words on the screen, maybe as i do mine now, though boy am i going to kick myself later for puttingthis but hey 3 home measure whiskies and i'm ready to fly tonight guilty of posting under the influence probably. There are very few this rant applies to very very few and those few, couple, one, two or three people (god i'm caging my bets) but they will know who, can just go shag em selves
this is my words they're probably not facts they might not be opinions but they are my words good or bad and if they make me look like a wanker nobody needs to define that in to me i'm happy to accept that fact.
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox
Bollox!

I agree with every word :thumbup: Except the last 5.
They should be:
Bollocks
Bollocks
Bollox
Bollocks
Bollocks!

God I can be pedantic on occasions!! rolleyes
.
Quote by Theladyisaminx
Kent about free speech and Gaunty per the op.
I think when Gaunty first went on talk sport his phone in programmes were interesting there were some great debating topics that all could join in and express their opinions, yes he used to question differing opinions but I felt it was then left up to the listener to make their own opinions.
But as time has gone he has seen himself as someone bigger than he is which he has now come to realise he isn’t.
I don’t believe he was sacked for his political views, he was sacked because of his belief that he is always right, in whatever he said.
The interview in question where then he got sacked there was a great debate to be had there.
The debate was should people that smoke be able to foster children?
What Gaunty showed was the inability to control himself in the debate he was totally out of order, I agreed with him about people should be able to foster who smoke each should be taken on their own merit.
But he lost control.
What I believe makes a good interviewer is someone that raises questions lets people listen and make up their own minds to the debate, Gaunty always put his stance on things, so to me he was a leader of a gang and a bully and he had what he thought was enough people in his gang to back him up and help fight his cause, but at the end of the day he lost most of the people, as people with an open mind could see him for what he was, someone that couldn’t control his temper and was unable to reason.
He should have let people have free speech on his show.
I didn’t believe all that he stood for but he did raise some interesting debates.

And will be sorely missed.
Maybe he will but he should never personally attack people that were only adding a counter debate to topics that were raised.
He discussed things nobody else would. Topics very similar to the things I like to talk about on here. Whats wrong with talking about these things? dunno
Nothing is wrong with discussing topics, what was wrong was the way it ended up with a personal insult being hurled.
Nearly every time I do a strong politicaly motivated thread, so many times someone has said something negative about it.
Strong politically motivated threads are fine, but if you raise a thread surely it is to open a debate, to debate is to listen to each others counter debate, but never stoop to person insults if someone does not agree with you,
why open a debate if all you want to hear from are people that agree with you?
Is this really then a debate?
Or just trying to do what Gaunty tryed to do?
That was to lead like minded people.
Because if you didn’t agree with Gaunty he would just be rude, insult people, or just hang up.
That is hardly a healthy debate, to debate is the willingness to listen to all points of view is it not?
Isn’t this thread about freedom of speech?

I am like Gaunty in my views, and not talking about strong issues like immigration and the like, will NOT make them go away.
Gaunty thought he was always right, because he was.....my opinion. Sometimes he came across as rude and arrogant but, a bit like on here, people are very emotive on certain subjects.

You don’t have to be rude and or arrogant to get a point across.
You just have to have a logical answer why you think you are right,
777 Nobody is always right, and if you believe that. That is your opinion.
If you think he was always right then you must agree he was right to call that guy a Nazi.

But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink
Minxy I dont mean to be rude but if you had been bothered to read my past posts you will see I said he WAS wrong to call him a Nazi.
I agree he was a health Nazi which is something completely different.
Gaunty is like a lot of things in life....you either love em or hate em....
Quote by DeeCee

But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink

the art of good debate often involves "put downs", mockery and ridicule.....
has anyone ever watched The House of Commons

thats why i stay away from debates on the SH forums these days....
some people cant take it......or seem to think that feining offence is gonna bail them out ....
therefore, sadly, i'm not prepared to "spar" with people who arent prepared to take what they dish out themselves.
or be critisized for giving back as good... or maybe better by those who have no idea what is a difference of opinion and a full blown row.
I'd have to disagree with you there. Good debate doesn't involve getting personal and the House of Commons is no more a forum of good debate than a student bar at chucking out time is.
Health Nazi? That is not insulting? I work in the arena that looks at public health. So I could be classed as a "Health Nazi"?
I would be put on a par with a set of humans that were responsible with the death of over 12 million people by giving us the same name.
To debate is good, to insult people like Gaunt is wrong.
Dave_Notts
I have no problem with free speech in the media, however when it comes to Russell Brand, John Gaunt and their ilk I do have some issues with the media having a basic prerequisite for talent
Quote by foxylady2209

But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink

the art of good debate often involves "put downs", mockery and ridicule.....
has anyone ever watched The House of Commons

thats why i stay away from debates on the SH forums these days....
some people cant take it......or seem to think that feining offence is gonna bail them out ....
therefore, sadly, i'm not prepared to "spar" with people who arent prepared to take what they dish out themselves.
or be critisized for giving back as good... or maybe better by those who have no idea what is a difference of opinion and a full blown row.
I'd have to disagree with you there. Good debate doesn't involve getting personal and the House of Commons is no more a forum of good debate than a student bar at chucking out time is.
if you consider that "put downs", mockery and ridicule..... are personal attacks then i have to say, politely , and without meaning to cause offence, that you would also be one of the types of people i would prefer not to debate with.
Quote by DeeCee

But then maybe I have the art of debate all wrong, I am sure someone will let me know wink

the art of good debate often involves "put downs", mockery and ridicule.....
has anyone ever watched The House of Commons

thats why i stay away from debates on the SH forums these days....
some people cant take it......or seem to think that feining offence is gonna bail them out ....
therefore, sadly, i'm not prepared to "spar" with people who arent prepared to take what they dish out themselves.
or be critisized for giving back as good... or maybe better by those who have no idea what is a difference of opinion and a full blown row.
I'd have to disagree with you there. Good debate doesn't involve getting personal and the House of Commons is no more a forum of good debate than a student bar at chucking out time is.
if you consider that "put downs", mockery and ridicule..... are personal attacks then i have to say, politely , and without meaning to cause offence, that you would also be one of the types of people i would prefer not to debate with.
It depends on what is being mocked and ridiculed. If we mock a system or a situation then that is fair game. If we mock an individual then, yes, it is personal. If we have a good (by that I mean effective) argument to hand then any personal attack is unecessary. And if we depend on mockery and ridicule to support our argument then we have already lost the debate.
Quote by foxylady2209
It depends on what is being mocked and ridiculed. If we mock a system or a situation then that is fair game. If we mock an individual then, yes, it is personal. If we have a good (by that I mean effective) argument to hand then any personal attack is unecessary. And if we depend on mockery and ridicule to support our argument then we have already lost the debate.

:thumbup:
Quote by Freckledbird
The 3 ironies in the current sub-thread.
1) This is a thread about free speech.
2) This is one thread where Kent and myself have NOT squabbled.
3) The self-righteous making comments about how Kent and myself make threads personal are doing the very thing they accuse us of.
This thread was very much on topic until you guys went off-topic and turned it into one about us. So once again you, Jaymar, FB, MnD etc are the ones who are being hypocritical in this instance.
So how about you guys giving it a rest and allow the ones who want to discuss the current topic to be able to discuss it without whingers and whiners spoiling the thread?

I can live with that. Particularly as I've never been banned for anything on SH, especially with regard to forum posts - so what you see as hypocritical, others may agree with but be unwilling to post in agreement with because they don't want to be turned on, by you. dunno
I have no doubt people will agree with it, the difference being that they aren't being hypocritical because they didn't post. It's the posting that made it hypocritical, not the thought processes.
And not having been banned. So? What relevance does that have to free speech?
Additionally, you and the others are being disruptive in this thread, not Kent and I. All we've had to do is go off-topic and defend ourselves against you guys. Neither of us have done a fucking thing wrong in this thread, yet right from the off we get singled out. Because someone, i.e. MazandDen made a mistake and came to the wrong conclusion. Then things avalanched when the self righteous entered the fray to piss and moan.
Try going back to page one and follow the thread, then tell us that we're the ones out of order. rolleyes
Quote by mazandden
No mistake made, believe me!

How would you know unless you were told?
The post of mine that prompted your off-topic remark was NOT having a go at Kent.
Is that simple enough for you?
So yes you did make a mistake. The fact you can't see it is why this thread turned to shit.
Peanut butt out
Quote by Lost
Peanut butt out

Perhaps posting whilst imbibing isn't the best of ideas?
Peanut , the first response you made on this thread was both inflammatory and off topic in my view.
Quote by benrums0n
Peanut , the first response you made on this thread was both inflammatory and off topic in my view.

Comments on these forums are a bit like art or music!
Everyone’s interpretation of them could all be different! wink
Quote by mazandden
No mistake made, believe me!

So as a question....was your original comment to inflame a thread? Because for somebody to make a comment like that at a start of a thread where nothing had been said, is at best trouble stirring and at worse inflamatory, because it seemed to maybe have the outcome you wanted? dunno
Well the topic has certainly been used to full effect, with free speech. Opinions and free speech are
wonderful institutions of things that are British, and long may it continue.
Quote by benrums0n
Peanut , the first response you made on this thread was both inflammatory and off topic in my view.

Please explain.
Whilst you do please muse on the fact that the above is a statement based on an opinion, not fact. Your view is incorrect.
Why Am I reminded of Matilda when I read this thread?dunno :giggle: