Homophobic..........Am I? are you?

2 Jul 2008

Quote by winchwench
Homosexuality is, obviously, not what the human body was designed for, and to that extent it could be said that technically, it's not normal.

And oral sex performs what biological function?
Climbing onto a bus to go to work requires which particular gene?
The peroxide blonde's hair colour gene doesn't yet seem to be included in the Human Genome Project.
Condoms, though wonderfully useful and pretty much essential these days, are used to prevent normal biological activity, i.e. allowing bacteria and virii to enter our bodies and reproduce.
All abnormal things to do with our bodies, yet somehow are still very popular with the average hetero.

Congenital blindness is not "normal"

Yes it is.

Downs Syndrome is not "normal"

Yes it is.

Cleft Palate is not "normal"

Yes it is.

Can anyone justify treating any of the above groups of people differently?

All of the above are normal. They are all examples of the human body being broken, it's normal, just broken. Homosexuality is not broken, it's not abnormal. It's just different.
Current medical theory is that homosexuality, bisexuality and heterosexuality is as a result of a foetus receiving a particular hormone (can't remember the name at the mo') from the mother at around 12 weeks gestation. we all get the same hormone at the same stage. What differs is the level of hormone. One amount range and you're gay, another amount range and you're bi, yet another and you're hetero.
Nature has already decided that gay, bi and hetero are all versions of normal. What decided, in our culture anyway, that homosexuality was abnormal was the christian church.
Read up on the history of the Christian church if you don't believe me. A good start is at about the time that a particular Roman emperor was trying to save his ass when Christianity was proving to be popular and he wanted to protect his throne. At that time, the Roman culture accepted all manner of sexual behaviour to be okay. In order to distance himself from the leniency of social culture at the time and to ally himself with the growing power of the new religious order (soon to become the Roman Catholic church, and we all know what they did for liberated sex and tolerance don't we?) it became more and more unacceptable to demonstrate same sex relationships.
This is already too long a lecture, but any who are interested can research it for themselves, others will already know but unfortunately the vast majority will carry on blindly as before promulgating unknowing and uncaring bigotry.
As splendid so splendidly put it, why is lesbianism acceptable to most men but male homosexuality not? Was it Queen Victoria, or was it something else?

2 Jul 2008

as I said earlier to whips...
it is a shame that some people are a credit to their parenting.

2 Jul 2008

Quote by winchwench
I'm as happy to be in the company of gay people as straight. If a person was to hit on me (ah, memories ) then my response would be based upon of I fancied that person or not, irrespective of gender. I react no differently to my dear gay friend kissing his b/f as I do any straight couple I know.
Homosexuality is, obviously, not what the human body was designed for, and to that extent it could be said that technically, it's not normal.
Congenital blindness is not "normal"
Downs Syndrome is not "normal"
Cleft Palate is not "normal"
Can anyone justify treating any of the above groups of people differently?

of course the society treat them different with extra care,the situations they are in is not by choice
ahh yeah. Gay people choose their sexuality in the same way that straight people do. I always forget that.
i didnt mention anything about the gays or straight...thanks for changing the knickers Btw biggrin

Oh FGS Phuckers, this is not a kindergarden. No one here was born yesterday. If you genuinely think that your implication was lost on us, or that by saying you "didn't say anything about gays or straights" will throw us of the scent of the point you were trying to make- then you're not as bright as I thought you were.
i seriously dont know what you are on about i only challenged the bolded sentence,i by no means hate gay people

2 Jul 2008

Peanut Wrote:

Stuff

I'm pretty much in agreement with you Peanut - I'm guilty of having tried to oversimplify the matter to give an easy comparison.
:thumbup:

2 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
I'm as happy to be in the company of gay people as straight. If a person was to hit on me (ah, memories ) then my response would be based upon of I fancied that person or not, irrespective of gender. I react no differently to my dear gay friend kissing his b/f as I do any straight couple I know.
Homosexuality is, obviously, not what the human body was designed for, and to that extent it could be said that technically, it's not normal.
Congenital blindness is not "normal"
Downs Syndrome is not "normal"
Cleft Palate is not "normal"
Can anyone justify treating any of the above groups of people differently?

of course the society treat them different with extra care,the situations they are in is not by choice
banghead

why are you banging your head?
Irony isn't your strong suit is it? You're not a yank are you?

2 Jul 2008

Quote by Peanut
I'm as happy to be in the company of gay people as straight. If a person was to hit on me (ah, memories ) then my response would be based upon of I fancied that person or not, irrespective of gender. I react no differently to my dear gay friend kissing his b/f as I do any straight couple I know.
Homosexuality is, obviously, not what the human body was designed for, and to that extent it could be said that technically, it's not normal.
Congenital blindness is not "normal"
Downs Syndrome is not "normal"
Cleft Palate is not "normal"
Can anyone justify treating any of the above groups of people differently?

of course the society treat them different with extra care,the situations they are in is not by choice
banghead

why are you banging your head?
Irony isn't your strong suit is it? You're not a yank are you?
you're opinion about me will never change what iam,so stick to the topic

2 Jul 2008

Quote by Phuckers
you're opinion about me will never change what iam

Alas you are most probably right.
Sort of proves the point about the irony though.

2 Jul 2008

So why would I feel the way IU feel given my first and second posts?
I understand that through education, tolerance and acceptance not necessarily in that order either. I could hope to achieve an understanding and at that point have no feelings towards sexuality/gender/whatever issues as at that point there wouldn't be distinctions.
I'm not a stupid person. maybe not that clever either, and I would love to be totally accepting of just sexuality in any given form. Hey it would be ace to think I could be as attracted to a man as much as a woman and find the same feelings irrespective. However I still have the knowledge that a bloke sexually would feel alien different and something I couldn't accept. I just find it infuriating and weird.
The topic developed into something more than my initial question/thought which is cool it should do. I am still left wondering if others feel the same as i do about this?
I've over complicated this haven't I? Maybe I should just accept things and not question. That would be wrong though. Wouldn't it?

2 Jul 2008

No Lost, I don't think your potential reaction is at all homophobic.
I think much depends on the interpretation of homophobia; but a fear of being gay, or of gay people doesn't equate to an uncomfortable or uncertain response to a gay gesture.
I think all it really says is, when faced with a situation you're unfamiliar with, you can't be certain of your reaction, and even if it's a negative reaction, that could just be a 'safety first' mechanism... to react negatively/defensively until mentally comfortable.
The whole situation is a combination of events and data you're processing.... for instance, the environment it happens in, your mood, the person doing it, the manner in which they do it etc. It only takes one of these things to completely change your reaction. If a woman pinches over aggressively, that might make you react negatively, or a woman doing to in the middle of Sainsbury's might flatter you but you'd think she was slighty nutty!...
so it's no different if a guy pinches your bum and you think "oooh not sure about this, it's not something that's happened before, so for the moment, I'll not take kindly to it"
NOTHING homophobic about that!
Now gimme a kiss!
/TheKid

2 Jul 2008

Quote by Peanut
And oral sex performs what biological function?
Climbing onto a bus to go to work requires which particular gene?
The peroxide blonde's hair colour gene doesn't yet seem to be included in the Human Genome Project.
Condoms, though wonderfully useful and pretty much essential these days, are used to prevent normal biological activity, i.e. allowing bacteria and virii to enter our bodies and reproduce.
All abnormal things to do with our bodies, yet somehow are still very popular with the average hetero.

Brilliant - but never mind Condoms, what about the contraceptive pill?

Quote by peanut

I agree with all the above.
I go back to what I was saying before though, I think we're all to some extent ignorant and we all have certain gut responses built-in. Being aware of that is a massive part of dealing with it.

3 Jul 2008

Ok now I sort of already know I will regret this...
but still... (and do not assume anything about my own opinion, it's irrelevant)...
It is rather difficult for anybody today to defend (in good faith, whatever that really means) the case that homosexuality is in some way wrong.
I'm saying here that IF someone does believe it to be wrong (through a religious belief, some sense of biological malfunction, or just the most difficult of all for me to deal with 'it's just a confused person').... then they are given pretty short shrift and made to feel persecuted.
I worry about this a little, and don't feel comfortable with it.
I can't abide those that so clearly say "it's wrong", but, I equally can't abide those that refuse to accept it is a point of view, and you can still have a pint with someone holding that view.
I drink with adulterers, thieves, liars, bigots, you name it (I'm probably some of those!)... I have on occasion told them that I believe what they are doing is wrong. I still love them, they still matter to me, I don't think any less of them (I'm no angel), and yet I still have some sense of right and wrong over those issues.
If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong, they are in deep trouble... perhaps because it's clearly a biological / physiological matter more than it is a clear 'moral' matter... (or conventional wisdom would have us believe).
YET..... and here's the rub.
Few of us hold much sympathy for paedophiles. Are they too (to varying extents) victims (for want of a better term) of biology?. Could they be predisposed to find youth attractive, and by the law of the land, be horrific monsters for being with a 15 year old in one country, and perfectly fine in another?
The parallels here are not ideal and they are controversial... but currently few dare raise objections to homosexuality, and few dare defend .
I sincerely apologise to those assuming I equate the two in any other fashion than biological predisposition to sexual behaviour. I do not.
So I ask all.... why IS it so reprehensible to say No to homosexuality, but fine to say No to other sexual behaviours that society finds distasteful / harmful (which some clearly are!)?
/TheKid

3 Jul 2008

Quote by Lost
So why would I feel the way IU feel given my first and second posts?
I understand that through education, tolerance and acceptance not necessarily in that order either. I could hope to achieve an understanding and at that point have no feelings towards sexuality/gender/whatever issues as at that point there wouldn't be distinctions.
I'm not a stupid person. maybe not that clever either, and I would love to be totally accepting of just sexuality in any given form. Hey it would be ace to think I could be as attracted to a man as much as a woman and find the same feelings irrespective. However I still have the knowledge that a bloke sexually would feel alien different and something I couldn't accept. I just find it infuriating and weird.
The topic developed into something more than my initial question/thought which is cool it should do. I am still left wondering if others feel the same as i do about this?
I've over complicated this haven't I? Maybe I should just accept things and not question. That would be wrong though. Wouldn't it?

Lost, your sexual preference doesn't make you homophobic. You are no more able to choose the gender you fancy than a gay person. :thumbup:

3 Jul 2008

Quote by winchwench
So why would I feel the way IU feel given my first and second posts?
I understand that through education, tolerance and acceptance not necessarily in that order either. I could hope to achieve an understanding and at that point have no feelings towards sexuality/gender/whatever issues as at that point there wouldn't be distinctions.
I'm not a stupid person. maybe not that clever either, and I would love to be totally accepting of just sexuality in any given form. Hey it would be ace to think I could be as attracted to a man as much as a woman and find the same feelings irrespective. However I still have the knowledge that a bloke sexually would feel alien different and something I couldn't accept. I just find it infuriating and weird.
The topic developed into something more than my initial question/thought which is cool it should do. I am still left wondering if others feel the same as i do about this?
I've over complicated this haven't I? Maybe I should just accept things and not question. That would be wrong though. Wouldn't it?

Lost, your sexual preference doesn't make you homophobic. You are no more able to choose the gender you fancy than a gay person. :thumbup:
I agree wholeheartedly with both points.
To shrink away from a guy's sexual touch isn't homophobia, it's just a normal, preconditioned physiological response. It's no different really, for example, to recoiling from the touch of a female who you cannot stand.
Homophobia is an irrational, psychological response to external conditioning which results in varying degrees of hatred and intolerance. A lot of the time people see the term "homophobia" but don't really notice the 'phobia' on the end, i.e. it's an irrational fear.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by Whipsnspurs
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by TheAnalogKid
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
I'm sorry but I think you may be confusing certain things.
Homosexuality is not a sexual thing per se, it's a gender thing which is totally different, whereas is what's called a paraphilia, or in a nutshell being gay is physiological and a is psychological.
Neither is about sex itself. isn't so much about sex, it's more about control.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by TheAnalogKid
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
I disagree with this. We don't call them sick because they like youngsters it's what they sometimes DO about it we call sick.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by Whipsnspurs
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Ah, but I never asked should they have our sympathies, I asked why is it that is someone believes homosexuality to be 'wrong' (let's put aside that rights and wrongs of their opinion)... they are in for a whole lot of trouble for expressing that view...
but everybody's fine with saying other sexual behaviours are wrong.
It's as if the pendulum has swung the other way, from when folks with serious prejudice issues and ignorance denounced homosexuality and it was 'ok' to say it was 'wrong'(there was a time when many believed this, and some still do).... and now, it's gone the other way, where it's damned hard for someone to believe it's wrong without fear of being called every name under the sun.
I really struggle with that, because sure I loathe folks who simply want to knock gay folks because they just want some section of society to pick on. But sometimes, there are folks who really aren't prejudice, have no personal issue with any section of society, but have some inner belief or conviction (call is what you will, that homosexuality is wrong).
There are still folks who believe anal sex is wrong, and even some who thing oral sex is questionable! (mind boggles), but I don't think they hate folks who do have anal or oral sex. So if they think homosexuality is wrong, I just wonder why so many assume they are gay haters, or worse.
My God, I feel like a liberal now!
My comrades will not be best pleased.
/TheKid
Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
i get your point, you mean they have no choice in their preference. just the same as you have no choice about being gay or straight. but the question you asked was should they not have our sympathies? well my answer is no. there is a difference in a lad of 17 going out with a girl of 15 who both concent to sex (or the girl may be the older one and the gap may be bigger). but again it comes down to an adult taking advantage of a child, not concentual sex.
abuse is about control to an extent, but most do what they do to get sexual gratification. is the abuser a victim too? no they are not! they are adults who know right from wrong no matter what their preference is. a is driven to do so because again they have the control but it's still about sexual gratification. i'm straight but could live without sex if i had to just as any gay person could. the abusers could too if they wanted to but they don't! there may be some with the preference who don't act on it, i don't know. but still i can not and will not find sympathy for them.
whips

3 Jul 2008

Quote by TheAnalogKid
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay? dunno

Maybe, but does it actually matter???

3 Jul 2008

Quote by anais
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay? dunno

Maybe, but does it actually matter???
What about shipping them all out on an island somewhere, that way parents can sleep a bit easier of a night.
I dont believe for a second they are born that way, I believe they become like that through issues within their own heads. I cannot believe that a normal rational person would even think such thoughts, let alone act them out.
When I see parents that have had their children killed by these people,I feel for the parents, and feel nothing for these sick people who commit such gross acts.

3 Jul 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay? dunno

Maybe, but does it actually matter???
What about shipping them all out on an island somewhere, that way parents can sleep a bit easier of a night.
I dont believe for a second they are born that way, I believe they become like that through issues within their own heads. I cannot believe that a normal rational person would even think such thoughts, let alone act them out.
When I see parents that have had their children killed by these people,I feel for the parents, and feel nothing for these sick people who commit such gross acts.
They were somebody's child once, son or daughter... born that way, or made... what took an innocent child and turned them into what they became?
Yep, we could easily (in theory) ship them out... but prevention's always better than cure. Another will be born today, and always will be. To be honest, I'm not sure it could ever be prevented anyway (we're unlikely to figure out which set of triggers lead them down the wrong path to turn out that way).
You know more children are abused by parents and family members than any 'perverts' out there. More actually die at the hands of parents then are killed by perverts. Now THAT is worrying. (not that the other isn't!).
I'm a father of two, it's one thing to be rationale in here, quite another when your child is affected. But then that's why we can't be allowed to dish out the punishment - law of the land and all that, in theory to protect us all from ourselves!

3 Jul 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
possibly because as a homosexual you are giving your partner a choice. paedophiles usually don't give their victim any choice at all! i have no sympathies what so ever with these people and will not tolerate them one bit!
there is a difference between concenting sex of whatever sexuality and abuse. there is also a difference between a couple who choose to have sex under age and an adult who rapes a child.
i could say more but it's a subject that is very emotive to me so i'm not going to.
whips

Not sure that's the point...
the point is about predisposition to something. If they are made that way. In the same way a guy might be born to find another guy attractive, can they be born to find young folks attractive.
What they DO with that 'attraction' is a massive problem... but that is an entirely different debate.
The debate is... we defend homosexuality (well most folks do nowadays), and deplore other forms of sexual behaviour.
For most of us, I think its fair to say "most gay people are born that way, even if it takes time to realise they are gay,or bi etc"... but if someone says "I can't help liking youngsters" we call them sick.
There's a fundamental problem there..... and this is in no way defending you know what.
The consent and abuse issue is absolutely right, it's awful what such people DO... but I do have some sort of sympathy for their motivation if it's ever proven to be biological.
If that was ever proved to be the case, they would still be sick individuals in my book.
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did. In training I had on child protection, the tutor's expertise was working with Paedophiles. She reckons that they are born with those feelings, hence Paedophiles believe those feeling to be *normal*. It created quite a fascinating discussion.
My take on Paedophiles living in our communities is, better the devil you know!! I used to live above one and never ever had a problem with him living their (after all, people have to live somewhere). I taught my children well as they grew up on how to deal with him. It worked for me, might not other people....
As for homophobia....
I think sexuality is more accepted nowadays, although not by all and its those few who make life difficult for lesbian, gay and bi-sexual people. I found young people I worked with accepting of gay and bi women but men... that was a no no! Until we had a cake shop open ran by two gay men...one very camp the other you wouldn't have a clue about unless he told you. At first, they had terrible problems with young people and a few adults... eventually tho, they were and still are accepted in that particular community. It is about educating people in their ignorance and bigoted views. Tho, I have found some people just wont be moved away from those views no matter what is said to them.
Interestingly, the gay man that was quite camp acting (hate the word camp and cant think of an alternative sorry!) introduced me to his father, who told me all his four sons were gay..... so are people born gay? dunno

Maybe, but does it actually matter???
What about shipping them all out on an island somewhere, that way parents can sleep a bit easier of a night.
I dont believe for a second they are born that way, I believe they become like that through issues within their own heads. I cannot believe that a normal rational person would even think such thoughts, let alone act them out.
When I see parents that have had their children killed by these people,I feel for the parents, and feel nothing for these sick people who commit such gross acts.

3 Jul 2008

I would like to go slightly away from what the past few posts have been about.
Last week I listened to a podcast about sexual health for gays and lesbians.. and was shocked at the treatment that they got.
They were dealt with so insensitively it made my blood boil... one woman was told, because she was a lesbian, and had never had sex with a man, she didn't need a smear...
Sorry to change tack.. but it really got me thinking.. and unhappy how the way people are treated..
evil

3 Jul 2008

Quote by Misskitty_2008
They were dealt with so insensitively it made my blood boil... one woman was told, because she was a lesbian, and had never had sex with a man, she didn't need a smear...

Despicable, but understandable. The person who said that was most probably working on the knowledge that the prime trigger for cervical problems is, surprisingly enough, sperm.
Despicable because it isn't the only trigger and no woman should ever be denied a smear test based on such a stupid notion of it being the only trigger.
If I've said it once I've said it a 1000 times, 50% of all doctors were in the bottom half of their class... Then they are let loose on the public rolleyes

4 Jul 2008

What an excellent debate - there isn't enough philosophy about these days.
I especially like this bit -

Quote by TheAnalogKid
I'm a father of two, it's one thing to be rationale in here, quite another when your child is affected. But then that's why we can't be allowed to dish out the punishment - law of the land and all that, in theory to protect us all from ourselves!

Surprised nobody has mentioned de Sade, who very much argued that all sexual preferences (in which he very emphatically included , , necrophilia, coprophilia, scatophilia and anything else you can imagine...) are just "different" and not "wrong". De Sade did say and do a lot of odd things though.
Also,

Quote by kentswingers777
Most people nowadays have no problem with gay guys at all but...the child molester will never have much sympathy from people, and why should they? Society will never accept or tolerate that kind of behaviour,and it will be a sad day if they did.

is, interestingly enough, open to question. Today, many societies with moral codes generally fairly close to our own have significantly different definitions of "under-age" (In Sweden and France, 15, in Italy 14 and in Spain 13! Not to forget than in Northern Ireland it's 17, and in California it's 18; and then at the extremes, in many Arab countries, like Saudi Arabia, sex is legal as soon as you're married, which can be... er... at any age; whereas in Madagascar you're supposed to wait till you're 21!
So which of these is right? What makes us so sure that 16 is too young whereas 15 is ? I mean I know what I think*, but I'd never go so far as to say that my views are intrinsically, biologically correct.
(Actually that's a lie, I say that all the time.)
Anyway the point is that our responses to most sexual (and other!) actions/preferences/behaviours/attitudes are massively socially conditioned, not only biological or innately "right".
Disclaimer: not that I'm saying homosexuality is socially conditioned... or anything else, not sure in fact what I am saying, I'm tired and should be asleep... just thought the thing about different societies thinging different ages are ok was interesting.
IN EDIT: I totally agree that

Quote by kentswingers777
the child molester will never have much sympathy from people

Child molestation is of course a different issue to consensual sex and I wouldn't want to live in a society which endorsed it. Not that I'm saying I'd want consensual sex with younger people to be allowed either... oh crap... brain fart. I need to go to bed.
____
*What I think is that 16 is about the right age for a law - it discourages the 13 and 14-year-olds from having sex. I also think that no grown adult should be dating anyone certainly less the 18, and even above that depending on relative levels of maturity, but I don't think this is necessarily an area for the law.

4 Jul 2008

Tomu & Peanut........keep posting fellas- you're a breath of fresh air
:thummbup:

4 Jul 2008

Quote by winchwench
:thummbup:

perhaps you spelt that wrong ? he he he I love correcting you. I only wish I could do it in person. rolleyes

5 Jul 2008

I have a few gay friends and they tell me one of the things that really piss them off is that when ever the subject of homosexuality is discussed the word " " always seems to creep into the discussion, why is that........ confused

6 Jul 2008

this is a typical homophobic behaviour

7 Jul 2008

trust you Phuckers.. smackbottom

I wonder how many complaints they got for that sketch. I wonder how many they would get today.. or even if they would show got past the lawyers then.
personally i thought it was funny. does that mean im homophobic? especially because i belly laughed at the line..
" bottoms up...... no , sorry i meant queers!!!"
what do you lot think?