How to read an Advert, and get confused into the bargain...

12 Feb 2005

This is a connundrum that I have struggled with for so long...have a look at this extract of a wording from a couples profile, which can be faily typical of many that I have seen...

Quote by Profile Wording
NOT looking for single guys... sorry not our bag, please stop asking for meets.
...
Party invites most welcome

Pretty clear enough, if you are a single guy and you are touting yourself to anyone prepared to listen. But that's not me...I don't use these sort of sites for swinging meets for myself personally.
I'm looking for people to invite to parties. (I hasten to add that these are FREE house parties) This profile says that they want to go to parties, but they don't do single guys. Does this mean that they won't do single guys in isolation, but would tolerate them in a party environment (which will include single guys and single girls) or do I have to stop inviting single fellas to parties (and not go myself either!) if I invite them? Am I really to believe that there are the sorts of people who would go somewhere, do a headcount and if there is one more male than female, storm out in a huff?
I mean, look how often at swingers clubs do such couples go, tolerate single guys there, say that they want to go to parties, and yet state that they are not interested in the single guys?
You get my drift here...I don't want to spam peoples profiles as a single guy where single guys aren't wanted, but sometimes it is hard to see what the real thoughts behind the words are. Up to now I have not approached anyone at all who has said "no single guys", but have I got it right, or are people who are into parties missing out as a result of such wordings?

12 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
I mean, look how often at swingers clubs do such couples go, tolerate single guys there, say that they want to go to parties, and yet state that they are not interested in the single guys?
You get my drift here...I don't want to spam peoples profiles as a single guy where single guys aren't wanted, but sometimes it is hard to see what the real thoughts behind the words are. Up to now I have not approached anyone at all who has said "no single guys", but have I got it right, or are people who are into parties missing out as a result of such wordings?

Couples that are couples-only and go to parties generally go to couples-only parties so I wouldn't think that they are missing out at all. There are probably more couples parties taking place than mixed parties (extra females never seem to be unwelcome though).
Many couples tolerate single guys very grudgingly at clubs and there are many who will not go to a mixed night. Tolerating and playing with are very different things.
At the end of the day, "no single guys" means "no single guys".

13 Feb 2005

Quote by northwest-cpl
Many couples tolerate single guys very grudgingly at clubs and there are many who will not go to a mixed night.

An interesting point, especially as its the money being made from single guys who finance most of these clubs.
Take the "Singles Subsidies" (which can be in the order of Â£250,000 per year at some of the larger clubs) and see how grudgingly the couples will want to behave then. I saw a thread on another site, complaining about a club in Lutterworth, which has very few single male members (because the club prices them out) and oh boy did the couples complain about the "real" price of swinging there.
OK, so what is it about the male sub-species that makes them into something only one step higher up the evolutionary ladder than the leppars? Why is it that couples will happilly accept another couple where the female doesn't play, (and they exist in abundance) but they don't accept a genuine single male? How many times have I seen wives / girlfriends spend the nights chatting about nothing in bars / kitchens while the fellas go to play on their own?
If both halves of a couple are concerned about both getting their idea of fun, then in a large group they both would, what difference does it make if there are 25 guys and 24 females and not 24 of each?

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
An interesting point, especially as its the money being made from single guys who finance most of these clubs.
Take the "Singles Subsidies" (which can be in the order of Â£250,000 per year at some of the larger clubs) and see how grudgingly the couples will want to behave then. I saw a thread on another site, complaining about a club in Lutterworth, which has very few single male members (because the club prices them out) and oh boy did the couples complain about the "real" price of swinging there.
OK, so what is it about the male sub-species that makes them into something only one step higher up the evolutionary ladder than the leppars? Why is it that couples will happilly accept another couple where the female doesn't play, (and they exist in abundance) but they don't accept a genuine single male? How many times have I seen wives / girlfriends spend the nights chatting about nothing in bars / kitchens while the fellas go to play on their own?
If both halves of a couple are concerned about both getting their idea of fun, then in a large group they both would, what difference does it make if there are 25 guys and 24 females and not 24 of each?

yup, as a single guy, well no way am i gonna pay 50 - 100 quid just so i can spend a night at xxxxxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxxxxxx!!!! ;) ((( NB - they're my xxxxxxxxxxx's thingumbobs! ;) ))) i'd really love to see just how long these clubs last on their free for a single fem, dirt cheap for a couple, but lets rinse the single guys to pieces pricing structures! as a business, well in the real world, i'd give it no more than a few weeks / months unless they swapped for something remotely equitable, unless of course we were prepared to swallow it?! ;)
but then that kinda encourages the casual not-really-a-couple-but-were-saving-a-shedloada-cash thing doesn't it? ;)
at the end of the day, in my experience, and IMHO, a load of the "no single guy" type people are more than happy to have single guys in attendance, as and when it suits them. any other time, well, single guys are just a resource ain't they, and we should be charged through the nose for the privilege!?
neil x x x x ;)

on reflection, that was a pretty daft argument to make, cos in actual fact, these clubs do quite nicely, and have been going for ages!! :doh: please ignore previous post, cos i can't delete it now now thanks to tune! poke

;)

13 Feb 2005

Why sit there getting confused? Just ask 'em. It's just not possible to put an exact spec in an advert. Or am I being naive?

13 Feb 2005

Quote by westerross
Why sit there getting confused? Just ask 'em. It's just not possible to put an exact spec in an advert. Or am I being naive?

I come back to my original point - I don't want to spam someone who wouldn't want to hear from me. That's the dilemma. Which is the real "me" - the single guy that they don't want to hear from, or the party organiser, that they do...???

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Why sit there getting confused? Just ask 'em. It's just not possible to put an exact spec in an advert. Or am I being naive?

I come back to my original point - I don't want to spam someone who wouldn't want to hear from me. That's the dilemma. Which is the real "me" - the single guy that they don't want to hear from, or the party organiser, that they do...???
Okay - haven't read the whole thread (again rolleyes

), but surely you have the option of posting a party "announcement" in LMU and thereby give them the option to reply if they want to?

13 Feb 2005

Quote by Rainbows
you have the option of posting a party "announcement" in LMU and thereby give them the option to reply if they want to?

er, maybe, if I was sure what LMU was... redface

Not been down that avenue yet.
My approach has always in the past been to get to see who enjoys parties, see if they want to talk to me, if so, make sure they are genuine (and they find out that I am also genuine) and once I am sure that I can invite them into someones home, issue invitations then.
Hearing all the stories about time wasters, fakers and the likes, I'd rather do the slow and steady approach than to blitz announcements to all and sundry. Dunno, maybe that approach needs reconsidering?

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
you have the option of posting a party "announcement" in LMU and thereby give them the option to reply if they want to?

er, maybe, if I was sure what LMU was... redface

Not been down that avenue yet.

LMU is the Leets Meet Up section - but to be totally honest - you are probably better off getting yourself known in here before posting a party "invite" - 'cos then people will have had the chance to get to know you a bit better.
Sorry - brain not working to well this morning - so that is really just a random thought. dunno

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Many couples tolerate single guys very grudgingly at clubs and there are many who will not go to a mixed night.

An interesting point, especially as its the money being made from single guys who finance most of these clubs.
Take the "Singles Subsidies" (which can be in the order of Â£250,000 per year at some of the larger clubs) and see how grudgingly the couples will want to behave then. I saw a thread on another site, complaining about a club in Lutterworth, which has very few single male members (because the club prices them out) and oh boy did the couples complain about the "real" price of swinging there.
Liberations is a very upmarket club. The prices reflect that. The high cost has more to do with recouping the owner's capital investment than excluding single guys. At the club we go to very regularly, couples pay Â£20 couples-only, Â£10 mixed. Couples nights have far more couples than mixed nights. (Single male membership is Â£25 and Â£15 a visit). Another local club limits its single guys to 5 at a time while maintaining a very reasonable entrance fee.
OK, so what is it about the male sub-species that makes them into something only one step higher up the evolutionary ladder than the leppars? Why is it that couples will happilly accept another couple where the female doesn't play, (and they exist in abundance) but they don't accept a genuine single male? How many times have I seen wives / girlfriends spend the nights chatting about nothing in bars / kitchens while the fellas go to play on their own?
Some males behave very badly, not all, or even most, but enough to give single males a bad reputation. The one-line posters from LMU don't suddenly improve when you meet them in the flesh.
In our experience there are very few couples where the female doesn't play and once they are sussed the male gets ignored in the playrooms. They may get away with it once or twice but not regularly.
If both halves of a couple are concerned about both getting their idea of fun, then in a large group they both would, what difference does it make if there are 25 guys and 24 females and not 24 of each?
25:24 is not usually a problem. 1:10 can be, unless that is what the lady is looking for. At mixed club nights the numbers of single men can be overpowering for many women.

Quote by neilinleeds
yup, as a single guy, well no way am i gonna pay 50 - 100 quid
That might be the price for a first visit, which includes membership, but it seems very high for an entrance fee. Which clubs have you priced? As an aside, have you priced a concert ticket, Premiership seat, day at Formula !!!!!
at the end of the day, in my experience, and IMHO, a load of the "no single guy" type people are more than happy to have single guys in attendance, as and when it suits them. any other time, well, single guys are just a resource ain't they, and we should be charged through the nose for the privilege!?
I find it hard to imagine why â€œno single guyâ€ couples would find a time when single guys â€œsuitedâ€ them. They presumably are looking for couples and not singles. We know lots of couples play with singles, but our suspicion, aided by our experiences, suggest that there are more couples who donâ€™t, even if they go to a mixed night because their club doesn't offer couples-only at the times they wish to visit.

Quote by partyman
I come back to my original point - I don't want to spam someone who wouldn't want to hear from me. That's the dilemma. Which is the real "me" - the single guy that they don't want to hear from, or the party organiser, that they do...???

I think that in the end they don't want to hear from you as a party organiser either. They want to hear from couples that organise couples parties.

To clarify where we are coming from on this:
We very rarely arrange to meet single guys, but also very rarely arrange to meet couples privately. We are primarily clubbers.
We prefer couples-only club sessions because we find them far more relaxed than mixed sessions where a significant minority of the single guys can behave in a very pushy way. Although we are very experienced we still find large numbers of pushy males off-putting.
We prefer to play with couples but also play with singles, often with groups of singles.
We are not anti-single but make choices based on our preferences.

13 Feb 2005

If you want people to know you organise parties, the best way to do it is in LMU - I should know wink

. If you want to organise parties but just invite your friends, don't publicise it or else all the chancers will do your head in.
As for the couple in question... personally, I wouldn't email them... they seem to be sure they don't want single guys.
Club issue - yeah, single guys have to pay over the odds, but clubs are running a business... as more guys want to swing than couples of course clubs are going to try and get more money out of them. Basic economics really.

13 Feb 2005

I'm primarilly a clubber as well, and before the clubs opened in the Midlands, I used to travel up to Manchester, so I know what sort of clubs and problems with them you have up there (Been to A & E when there were 25 blokes waiting for the one and only couple to srrive lol

)
Of course Libs have to recoup their costs, and their prices reflect that they are recouping them from the couples (where else do couples have to pay what singles pay elsewhere?) Needless to say, paying Â£100 for membership (which isn't even for a 12 month period) when it is free to them everywhere else and Â£5 for a drink at the bar is a shock to a couples system . If Libs got the same "singles subsidy" as other clubs, which they choose not to, the prices that couples would have to pay would be a lot lower. But as I said, this is reality, and couples who don't want the single around are welcome to pay the "real" cost of having a club that caters for the couples-only needs, if that's what they want.
Indeed your point about getting known is a good one. Time will tell as they say.
I agree with what you say about the number of numbskulls who ruin things. That said, I have been on both sides of the fence, and seen the number of couples who are just as adept at ruining the scene for others. Guys who pay for escort girls, guys whose wives are not into it but fear a beating if they don't come along, couples who won't give you the time of day if you are alone on a Friday, but want to be your best friend when you come with a partner on a Saturday...the list goes on. Obnoxious people go to clubs, sometimes they are on their own, sometimes they are accompanied. Another reason why I want to get to know people before inviting them.
As for couples nights being more relaxed, I suppose that's down to personla experience. In the Midlands the common complaint is that mixed nights are better because they don't have the cliquiness or the poser elements that Couples - only nights seem to suffer from. I've spoken to lots of couples who are on the lookout for other couples who prefer the mixed night atmosphere, even though they don't play with the singles. Each club / crowd to their own I suppose.

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Each club / crowd to their own I suppose.

Yep, everyone has its own, unique atmosphere. We like to visit new clubs, but have yet to find one to match the one we were lucky enough to choose for our first club visit. lol

13 Feb 2005

To add our pennyworth.
We prefer couples only clubs but also do go to clubs on mixed nights. Such as last night we were in a club in the NE, mostly couples and we knew most of them from way back. But this club also lets in single men. No problem with the men as people, nice to talk to downstairs, not pushy etc. Just normal people. But this club does NOT have a "couples only room" consequently whenever we were either by ourselves or close to another couple, suddenly you would look up and see a man real close. Often he would ask "do you want any company". Well we did not and they were not pushy and either went away or just watched. But the feeling was that we were never going to be left alone!!
Perhaps the answer would be for clubs to have seperate areas, one for couples only, one for couples who are interested in singles. While the non-sexual areas should also be mixed.
John & Shel

13 Feb 2005

Quote by Geordiecpl2001
Perhaps the answer would be for clubs to have seperate areas, one for couples only, one for couples who are interested in singles. While the non-sexual areas should also be mixed.

Swingers Apartheid is all well and good, but who's paying for your privilage of the couples having full use of the whole club? Remember that the guys are paying twice as much as you and your partner combined and you want them to be quarantined into certain sectors of the club only.
How many couples would be prepared to countenance the idea of paying per room, so that if 10 rooms of a club are available to couples, they pay (say Â£4 per room) Â£40, whereas the guy to whom only 7 rooms are available would pay Â£28?
I'm so glad that the parties that I organise are free admission. The pressure of getting "value for money" like the guys that Geordiecpl2001 encountered showed just isn't there.

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Perhaps the answer would be for clubs to have seperate areas, one for couples only, one for couples who are interested in singles. While the non-sexual areas should also be mixed.

Swingers Apartheid is all well and good, but who's paying for your privilage of the couples having full use of the whole club? Remember that the guys are paying twice as much as you and your partner combined and you want them to be quarantined into certain sectors of the club only.
How many couples would be prepared to countenance the idea of paying per room, so that if 10 rooms of a club are available to couples, they pay (say Â£4 per room) Â£40, whereas the guy to whom only 7 rooms are available would pay Â£28?
I'm so glad that the parties that I organise are free admission. The pressure of getting "value for money" like the guys that Geordiecpl2001 encountered showed just isn't there.
As I said previously, clubs are a business and they will naturally charge more to single guys as there are many more of them on the scene. Simple.
Parties are completely different as they are private affairs, you can't use parties as a comparison to clubs at all.

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Why sit there getting confused? Just ask 'em. It's just not possible to put an exact spec in an advert. Or am I being naive?

I come back to my original point - I don't want to spam someone who wouldn't want to hear from me. That's the dilemma. Which is the real "me" - the single guy that they don't want to hear from, or the party organiser, that they do...???
Still can't see the problem. Ask 'em with yer Part Hat on. We looking fer probelms here or what?

13 Feb 2005

Thought the same to be honest, TE. Either pm them and invite them; they can respond if they choose to. Or, don't pm them. Easy. Or advertise it in Lets Meet Up and whoever wants to go, will ask either on thread or via the pm system.

13 Feb 2005

Quote by bluexxx
Parties are completely different as they are private affairs, you can't use parties as a comparison to clubs at all.

Not entirely. the "scene" is a people thing, and these people will go to car parks, clubs, parties and will do individual meetings, all according to what takes their fancy.
The question is about what people's atitudes to the different environments are, within the scene. How a couple swings in a club can indicate how they behave at a party (e.g. do they want to lock themselves away with another couple in a private room, or do they go for the groupsex orgy?) Also, their attitude towards questions such as segregation from single guys will indicate how well (or not) they will intergrate socially at a party, which will contain single guys there.
So far the couples reactions here have been fairly anti-single, and yet I know this not to be a universal feeling. Most of the ladies in my party group like a prolonged sexual experience that comes form having more than one guy present. As someone once said, it's a matter of biology, women were built to run the marathon, men have to do a relay race. What's wrong with the ladies having fun at their own pace rather than having to call it quits just because hubby has cum his cocoa?

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
This is a connundrum that I have struggled with for so long...have a look at this extract of a wording from a couples profile, which can be faily typical of many that I have seen...
NOT looking for single guys... sorry not our bag, please stop asking for meets.
...
Party invites most welcome

Pretty clear enough, if you are a single guy and you are touting yourself to anyone prepared to listen. But that's not me...I don't use these sort of sites for swinging meets for myself personally.
I'm looking for people to invite to parties. (I hasten to add that these are FREE house parties) This profile says that they want to go to parties, but they don't do single guys. Does this mean that they won't do single guys in isolation, but would tolerate them in a party environment (which will include single guys and single girls) or do I have to stop inviting single fellas to parties (and not go myself either!) if I invite them? Am I really to believe that there are the sorts of people who would go somewhere, do a headcount and if there is one more male than female, storm out in a huff?
I mean, look how often at swingers clubs do such couples go, tolerate single guys there, say that they want to go to parties, and yet state that they are not interested in the single guys?
You get my drift here...I don't want to spam peoples profiles as a single guy where single guys aren't wanted, but sometimes it is hard to see what the real thoughts behind the words are. Up to now I have not approached anyone at all who has said "no single guys", but have I got it right, or are people who are into parties missing out as a result of such wordings?
Leaving the club aspect aside, I will answer this as we're guilty of adding it into our ad (when we have one). I'm not 100% comfortable with single males ~ by having that in our ad it deters most chancers and at the end of the day if I'm going to go with a single male then I need to have a lot of trust in him and get to know him first. I don't feel I can do that through the ad system. I prefer to use the forums to get to know people and then if I feel there is an attraction I will approach that indidivdual (with Hubby included etc).
We do attend parties and I have no objection playing with males there ... my reasoning is the safety in numbers aspect and should there not be an attraction the male still has others to play with and me saying no isn't a big deal.
C x

13 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
Not entirely. the "scene" is a people thing, and these people will go to car parks, clubs, parties and will do individual meetings, all according to what takes their fancy.

The point I meant was this: Parties are private affairs where the only guests are those invited by the host..... people at parties tend to know each other beforehand. They already have a history and an idea of each others likes and dislikes. Clubs are not private. They are open to anyone (who behaves). Attendance is given to anyone who can pay. Most people in clubs do not know each other and the attendance of people you can swing with is hit and miss. Now do you see how these two events are different?

13 Feb 2005

Partyman, there are around 17000 registered users on this site. If half say no single males, that still leaves around 8500. If that's not enough for you to go at with invites, that would be a worry. If you see ads like that which confuse you so much, just disregard them and go to the next one confused

Or is that too difficult?

14 Feb 2005

Quote by partyman
How many couples would be prepared to countenance the idea of paying per room, so that if 10 rooms of a club are available to couples, they pay (say Â£4 per room) Â£40, whereas the guy to whom only 7 rooms are available would pay Â£28?
The clubs we attend that have couples-only nights charge couples more than on a mixed night.
How many singles want to go to a club where there are no couples? Possibly the solution would be for you to open your own club where you let as many single guys in as choose to come, all at half the couple's rate because you are charging per head, not per unit, so as to be scrupulously fair. Just don't ask us to invest in it because It's not likely to last very long.
I'm so glad that the parties that I organise are free admission. The pressure of getting "value for money" like the guys that Geordiecpl2001 encountered showed just isn't there.

Why shouldn't couples who don't want the attention of single men not have a designated place where they can play without having to constantly say "no thanks, we don't need company"? Or are couples just the bait to attract singles? By "value for money", do you mean that a guy that pays his entrance fee should be guaranteed a show at least, but preferably a shag? If that's what they want then their money would be better spent at a massage parlour.

Again, we are not anti-single, as 5 happy singles from last night would confirm. However we do not see ourselves as a guaranteed shag and see no reason why club owners should change how they structure their admission charges. Private parties are completely different to clubs since there is no need to make a profit. Ask any club-owner...lose the couples, lose the club.