Hi everyone,
I have been laid up with my back for two weeks, although it is getting a bit better it still hurts. I need to see a chiropractor does anyone know of one on here especially in the north west or derbyshire.
Thanks for the help
itsnbits35
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I need a chiropractor
Sex God
Using my cunning, charm, witt and stunning good looks i think i have the answer for you
Quote by itsnbits35
hi i have seen the doc as it is a long time problem i have had every treatment under the sun but physio didn't do anything for me lol.
I though a chiropractor might be able to do something better??
It all depends on what is wrong with your back. In my experience of 30+ years of back problems chiropractors are great but there is only certain things they can help with.
The best thing about them is sometimes they figure out that your back problem isn't actually a back problem, sometimes it's something else that manifests as back pain. E.g. IBS can display as lower back pain, or a duff knee throwing out your stance puts the spine out of alignment etc.
Sex God
Maybe you would be better off googling chiropractors for your local area,or joining a chiropractors forum? if there is such a thing.
Or I and some of the other girlies walk across your back with our stilletoes on!!
Or I and some of the other girlies walk across your back with our stilletoes on!!
Quote by itsnbits35
i think this bout is due to the fact that i moved some bales of straw at the farm and it caused my muscle to spasm i have round tight knots of muscle and they don't seem to be releasing i was hoping they could do something to unknot them to give me some releif.
In that case a chiropractor would undoubtedly do a better job than a physio or an osteopath.
part of my problem was muscle spasm and the physio gave me ultra sound treatment for that, its also a good pain relief so that together with the other treatment the physio did made my problems improve dramatically
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
Quote by danne-gary
part of my problem was muscle spasm and the physio gave me ultra sound treatment for that, its also a good pain relief so that together with the other treatment the physio did made my problems improve dramatically
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
The problem with NHS physiotherapists (and this is NOT a criticism of them, just an observation of their limitations) is that they only treat the symptoms. Their remit is not to get at the root cause and sort that.
Sex God
Go and buy a TENS machine if you can't get any specialist help, Argos or some chemists sell them for about £20. Really good for a bit of pain relief and not bad at sorting minor muscle strains. They're worth the price for a few hours relief and essential if you have a permanent and reoccuring problem :thumbup:
Quote by meat2pleaseu
Go and buy a TENS machine if you can't get any specialist help, Argos or some chemists sell them for about £20. Really good for a bit of pain relief and not bad at sorting minor muscle strains. They're worth the price for a few hours relief and essential if you have a permanent and reoccuring problem :thumbup:
The problem with TENS (and I know, been there and done it) but the more you use it the less useful it becomes as the nervous system eventually adapts to its frequency. There is a better system for which I was given a machine (but is now in the possession of my ex-gf) where you put one electrode on your neck over the cervical spine and the other over your thoracic spine (over the point a bra strap would go). I'm buggered if I can remember the name of it now, but it worked on the theory that all pain messages travel via the spine and chronic pain leaves the nerve bundles in an excited condition even when the source of the pain has long gone. The signals sent out by this device calm those excited nerves by acting on the spinal cord itself unlike the TENS which works directly on the site of the pain itself. I think it was called a TSX or something like that.
Sex God
Quote by Peanut
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The problem with NHS physiotherapists (and this is NOT a criticism of them, just an observation of their limitations) is that they only treat the symptoms. Their remit is not to get at the root cause and sort that.
AS an NHS phsyio, this is complete B$£@~%&s I'm afraid!( i know you said not a critisim so i just want to make a few things clear)
An NHS physio will have trained for a 4-6 yr hons +/- masters degree and has the same university training as a 'private' physio.
In physio, the main aims of treatment are always in the first instance to determine the cause of a problem and not to just treat the symptoms.
The issue with back pain is that sometimes it is just not acheivable to determine a root cause.
It is extremely difficult to isolate one particular structure to be at fault within the spine, there is not one specific diagnostic test that will definately say that the pain is from 'this structure or that', or caused by 'this problem or that' and very often a combination of problems is found.
Even with further diagnostic testing such as MRI, X-Ray, further blood testing etc (which an NHS physio CAN and WIll refer for if necessary) results are not always conclusive and at that point, then yes, it will be symptomatic treatment/ combination treatment.
A physio will always strive to determine the structures at fault although with the knowledge and clinical reasoning skills to know that this is not always possible.
Unfortunately, and it has to be said, (and obviously a biased opinion) many people feel that they need a definitive reason for their pain.
Many chiropractors (and indeed osteopaths, private physios etc) have grasped this and used it to their advantage to gain more clients, by perhaps offering that much searched for 'cause' such as 'your back has slipped out of alignment and I've put it back in place and now you're all better ' (phew instant relief- hmmm placebo???!!!)
(note i say many and i am fully aware that this is a sweeping generalisation)
Chiropractors are also very quick to state an (expensive) Xray is required, when in reality the majority of information is determined from the questions asked about the history of the problem, without even having to touch a patient (the touch and physical assesment still plays an important role and is used to corroborate any clinical reasoning following history taking).
Xrays are hugely expensive, give huge doses of radiation when a Lumbar Xray is require, and usually don't tell much more than is already known.
So many other factors affect someones experience of pain- for example, someone on xray could have hugely arthric knees and not experience any pain, and another could have a tiny bit of joint surface wear and tear but be in absolute agnony- there is no correlation with x-ray results and experience of pain.
So perhaps finding the 'root cause' of someones pain ie through an xray, isn't really showing you the reasons for the pain, which can be very complex, and all you are left with is a massive radiation exposure! It still amazes me how many people know that they have poor posture causing their back pain, but want to expose themselves to xray just 'to see'.
Having an xray result rarely changes a treatment plan.
A chiropractor can in many instances offer quick, symptomatic relief, especially with acute problems, but you must be cautious that they don't do a quick fix that makes you feel like you require to keep going back to be fixed- there is actually so much you can do yourself!
(this is why it is particulary helpful to ask for advice here and not just pluck someone out of google or yell as has been suggested)
For physio, in some instances, you do not have to wait on an NHS waiting list if your problem is severe, physios have slots via GP referral that can be urgent- within 2 days or 'soon' within 1-2 weeks, so if it is causing you a lot of bother this may be an option.
In terms of physio vs chiro, treatment may be very similair- manual therapy/manipulation/massage/ with pain management advice (ie using heat packs, TENS machines, position change, avoiding aggravating positions etc etc) plus posture advice and most importantly exercises so that you can gain control of your own problem and not have to rely on someone else to 'fix you' when there is probably a lot you can do yourself.
A physio may have more access to other resources such as referral for furhter investigation, but a chiro can always write to your GP if concerned as well.
Phew, anyway there are different things to think about re physio/chiropractor NHS/private but you also need to think about what you're doing to manage your problem yourself at the mo.
I'm also hoping chiropractors won't be offended by this, I just mean that if you do go down the route of chiropractic which can be very effective- choose wisely and through recommendation!
M x
Quote by Peanut
part of my problem was muscle spasm and the physio gave me ultra sound treatment for that, its also a good pain relief so that together with the other treatment the physio did made my problems improve dramatically
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
The problem with NHS physiotherapists (and this is NOT a criticism of them, just an observation of their limitations) is that they only treat the symptoms. Their remit is not to get at the root cause and sort that.
well guess i must be very lucky because they did get to the root cause and sort that out
i also got my appointment within 2 weeks, i then went roughly twice a week until the problem was sorted :)
Sex God
Quote by danne-gary
part of my problem was muscle spasm and the physio gave me ultra sound treatment for that, its also a good pain relief so that together with the other treatment the physio did made my problems improve dramatically
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
The problem with NHS physiotherapists (and this is NOT a criticism of them, just an observation of their limitations) is that they only treat the symptoms. Their remit is not to get at the root cause and sort that.
well guess i must be very lucky because they did get to the root cause and sort that out
i also got my appointment within 2 weeks, i then went roughly twice a week until the problem was sorted :)
Ahh, I remember treating you....
hehehe
Maz xx
Please note that I specifically put NHS physio and not private physio. The reason I did this is that in most cases patients are referred to physios after having had treatment/consultation from elsewhere rather than the other way round. As a result they have been called in to treat the symptoms that directly relate to them, i.e. soft tissue injuries, post-fracture care etc. They are rarely drafted in to solve the basic problem.
I say this as someone with a vested interest. In the late 70s I started training for a job as a physio and although I didn't complete the training I've always had an interest in what they do. Additionally for 30+ years I've have more than my fair share of first-hand experience of them thanks to a rapidly failing musculo-skeletal system thanks to fibromyalgia and hypermobility syndrome.
I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't criticising them. they are limited to the function the NHS limits them too, not what their knowledge, training or experience limits them too. I know that a lot of physios go above and beyond their base skills with the likes of acupuncture etc. Once again my observation was based on their role within the NHS, not their role within the paramedical world.
As an aside, I'm off for treatment for another bloody impingement syndrome of the shoulder in a bit (I had one in my other shoulder last year), so I shall be off to see my wonderful Aussie physio yet again
I say this as someone with a vested interest. In the late 70s I started training for a job as a physio and although I didn't complete the training I've always had an interest in what they do. Additionally for 30+ years I've have more than my fair share of first-hand experience of them thanks to a rapidly failing musculo-skeletal system thanks to fibromyalgia and hypermobility syndrome.
I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't criticising them. they are limited to the function the NHS limits them too, not what their knowledge, training or experience limits them too. I know that a lot of physios go above and beyond their base skills with the likes of acupuncture etc. Once again my observation was based on their role within the NHS, not their role within the paramedical world.
As an aside, I'm off for treatment for another bloody impingement syndrome of the shoulder in a bit (I had one in my other shoulder last year), so I shall be off to see my wonderful Aussie physio yet again
Sex God
Quote by Peanut
Please note that I specifically put NHS physio and not private physio. The reason I did this is that in most cases patients are referred to physios after having had treatment/consultation from elsewhere rather than the other way round. As a result they have been called in to treat the symptoms that directly relate to them, i.e. soft tissue injuries, post-fracture care etc. They are rarely drafted in to solve the basic problem.
Unfortunately, i have to disagree with you again that our remit is NOT to treat symptoms, a physio will always and HAS to carry out an assesment to determine what the treatment will be and why, no matter who has referred, where from and why.
For instance, we regularly get referrals from a GP saying 'frozen shoulder, please give acupuncture and ultrasound'
a physio, chiropractor or any health professional will never then just go ahead and give a treatment, without carrying out their own assessment.
We have to make sure that this is acutally the diagnosis (very often the 'diagnosis' is wrong as the GP or such like has only had 5 mins consultation to make an judgement of what the problem could be) and then assess what we think would be the most appropriate treatment, given that we are most up to date with the current research and guidelines- that is why the patient has been referred to physio or such like.
If an assesment wasn't needed, the gP might as well just do the treatment themselves.
Most of the time the referrar can suggest a treatment, but they do not tell a practitioner what treatment to carry out.
This is how physio used to work, when you were perhaps initially interested in it- it very much was 'GP assesment' and GP tells physio what to do, now it is very much GP does a tentative referral given that the GPs clinical time is so lacking, and the physio uses their own experience to determine the best treatment or other referral source.
Patients can now self refer to the majority of physio services, without the need to go via a GP.
Yes I am in complete agreement that the service for both HMS and fibromyalgia are severely lacking.
The first due to the wide spectrum of HMS and the 2nd due to a huge lack of evidence and research coupled with the speculation surrounding fibromyalgia (note, not my speculation! ;-) )
m x
Quote by mazandden
Please note that I specifically put NHS physio and not private physio. The reason I did this is that in most cases patients are referred to physios after having had treatment/consultation from elsewhere rather than the other way round. As a result they have been called in to treat the symptoms that directly relate to them, i.e. soft tissue injuries, post-fracture care etc. They are rarely drafted in to solve the basic problem.
Unfortunately, i have to disagree with you again that our remit is NOT to treat symptoms, a physio will always and HAS to carry out an assesment to determine what the treatment will be and why, no matter who has referred, where from and why.
For instance, we regularly get referrals from a GP saying 'frozen shoulder, please give acupuncture and ultrasound'
a physio, chiropractor or any health professional will never then just go ahead and give a treatment, without carrying out their own assessment.
And after the assessment you treat the... what?
Yes I know you don't just barge in there and blindly just treat what it says on the referral sheet.
We have to make sure that this is acutally the diagnosis (very often the 'diagnosis' is wrong as the GP or such like has only had 5 mins consultation to make an judgement of what the problem could be) and then assess what we think would be the most appropriate treatment, given that we are most up to date with the current research and guidelines- that is why the patient has been referred to physio or such like.
If an assesment wasn't needed, the gP might as well just do the treatment themselves.
Most of the time the referrar can suggest a treatment, but they do not tell a practitioner what treatment to carry out.
I'm afraid that you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
A good friend of mine had been to physios off and on for about 5 years with a constant problem with his upper back and neck. He had been given the usual exercises and the infrared and radio wave treatments etc. In the end he sacked it and went to a chiropractor. The first session consisted of the very same assessment you are referring to. After that assessment the chiropractor then ignored my mate's back completely and started manipulating his ankle, knee and hip. My mate reported that the pain diminished a lot even after the first session.
I've never seen, or heard of an NHS physio do anything like that.
This is how physio used to work, when you were perhaps initially interested in it- it very much was 'GP assesment' and GP tells physio what to do, now it is very much GP does a tentative referral given that the GPs clinical time is so lacking, and the physio uses their own experience to determine the best treatment or other referral source.
I think this must differ from area to area and from trust to trust. Though it has to be said that my GP tends to take my initial diagnosis, writes it down and refers me to the physio in the local practice and pays no more interest, but then again it's not that she thinks I'm a good diagnostician merely that they are sick of seeing me for joint problems
Patients can now self refer to the majority of physio services, without the need to go via a GP.
Oh I wish that were the case round here. :cry:
Yes I am in complete agreement that the service for both HMS and fibromyalgia are severely lacking.
The first due to the wide spectrum of HMS and the 2nd due to a huge lack of evidence and research coupled with the speculation surrounding fibromyalgia (note, not my speculation! ;-) )
m x
Just out of interest, what is your stance on FMS? I won't argue with you on it in case you are worried as I know all the controversies and don't get tangled up in them. I'm just interested in what you think.
I don't really care what it's called or what it's caused by. I just know I'm in constant pain and having a label is not going to affect that. The big pisser is the combination of FMS and HMS. I know I need the exercise to stave off the HMS but then the exercise I take for that increases the pain of the FMS (along with the osteoarthritis). The ultimate fuck you by nature eh? Heheheheh
Sex God
Quote by Peanut
stuff
taken to pm to avoid hijack!!
Quote by mazandden
part of my problem was muscle spasm and the physio gave me ultra sound treatment for that, its also a good pain relief so that together with the other treatment the physio did made my problems improve dramatically
i didnt think they would be able to help but i couldnt afford to pay for treatment
The problem with NHS physiotherapists (and this is NOT a criticism of them, just an observation of their limitations) is that they only treat the symptoms. Their remit is not to get at the root cause and sort that.
well guess i must be very lucky because they did get to the root cause and sort that out
i also got my appointment within 2 weeks, i then went roughly twice a week until the problem was sorted :)
Ahh, I remember treating you....
hehehe
Maz xx
flipping heck was that you ???
Sex God
For what it is worth I have seen a Mctimony Chiropractitioner several times for back problems that have got worse over the last five or six years. Bending down to tie a shoe lace, moving a piece of furniture, lifting shopping out of the boot - anything could trigger a spasm.
In the end she was quite open and frank with me and said that if I lost some weight the incidences of back problems would dramatically decrease.
So I lost a stone in weight (that I had gained over the last five years) and not had a problem since. This may not be the same for everyone but it sorted me out.
In the end she was quite open and frank with me and said that if I lost some weight the incidences of back problems would dramatically decrease.
So I lost a stone in weight (that I had gained over the last five years) and not had a problem since. This may not be the same for everyone but it sorted me out.
