TBH huxley im against any use of firearms with a view to commiting genocide....
just make sure that only half of them are shot .....
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Invading Iran
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I read a post on another board stating that it was the duty of a government to protect it's citizens way of life above all else . Therefore they stated it was the duty of the western powers to secure the oil in any country they deemed neccessary to ensure the continuation of our society
What benefits are there to society & global harmony in condoning theft or murder of foreign citizens?
Do you think there would be mass desention if the goverment invaded any middle eastern country if or when they start to hold us to ransom over oil.
Yes
I wonder how many people would protest while having to ride thier bikes to work and stoke the wood fire while sewing to keep themselves entertained
I do that already, it's fun you should try it!
im not advocating it just interested in opinions
but you posed a hypothetical question which has no basis in contemporary reality, as we know it. What do you think would have happened to civilisation by the time we're having to ride bikes to work, stoke wood fires or have to sew for entertainment? You also forget the point that oil producers need a market to sell oil into. There would be no advantage to them in not doing so as they would soon suffer financially.
Quote by Mister_Discreet
I stiil think we should have fininshed the job properly in 1991, when Saddam clearly did have weapons of mass destruction and invaded Kuwait with them, at least back then we had a good excuse to pile in and take the oil, and we'd have saved a lot of kurds from being tortured to death too.
..the question was related to 'Invading Iran'
Sex God
Never mind the oil, are there any swingers over there? If so, let's go get 'em. 
Worst case scenario for the outcome of an Invasion of Iran
Shias in southern Iraq stage an uprising. 8000 british troops at risk
Sunnis seeing that there is an uprising in southern Iraq stage one of their own.
In the north the kurds are nervous and fight for independence.
Syria seeing that they are next on the list. Watch and wait. If they act. They may invade Lebanon or iraq from the North.
Many Moslems states such as Egypt and Lebanon become unstable.
Israel becomes very nervous and Invades Palestines and Lebanon
Next Kaboom
Like I said God help us all. If those two nutters Bush and Blair have any plans for an invasion of Iran
Shias in southern Iraq stage an uprising. 8000 british troops at risk
Sunnis seeing that there is an uprising in southern Iraq stage one of their own.
In the north the kurds are nervous and fight for independence.
Syria seeing that they are next on the list. Watch and wait. If they act. They may invade Lebanon or iraq from the North.
Many Moslems states such as Egypt and Lebanon become unstable.
Israel becomes very nervous and Invades Palestines and Lebanon
Next Kaboom
Like I said God help us all. If those two nutters Bush and Blair have any plans for an invasion of Iran
i really disagree 
about any invasion in iran cos they ( 
usa goverment :flipa: ) never will accept the only reason they want a do that its for the oil ... but samebody can tell me who can stop them??? if the powerfull countrys its support then..... we could go to the streets again, show to then we r against that they will never hear us cos the money made then deaf......... is really sad see in a screen wot its going on and think its just a small piece of the war we could see cos they never will let us see the true of the war until its to late to step back.....we see wot they want us to see
paz y amor
:cheers:
about any invasion in iran cos they ( usa goverment :flipa: ) never will accept the only reason they want a do that its for the oil ... but samebody can tell me who can stop them??? if the powerfull countrys its support then..... we could go to the streets again, show to then we r against that they will never hear us cos the money made then deaf......... is really sad see in a screen wot its going on and think its just a small piece of the war we could see cos they never will let us see the true of the war until its to late to step back.....we see wot they want us to seepaz y amor
:cheers: 
Sex God
oooooh.... middle eastern/ north african politics.... something juicy to get me mits into.... 
:)
A couple of things that i will throw in there as well....
1) any attempts by the kurds to fight for independence with split not only iraq... but would drag turkey into the conflict....this would be EU membership seeking and NATO member Turkey.....
2) The US advocate democracy when it suits them..... If Saudi ever went democratic... the Islamic Fundermentalist would win.... Same in Egypt......Same in Algeria (where they actually called an election Void when that happened) Same in Morocco.....Same in Jordan... same in Syria,
3) if everything in "2" was to happen then israel would be surrounded by hardline islamic states.... can you see that sitting well with anyone.....
4) iran is actually the most democratic country in the region...which is ironic becaue before the islamic revolution it wasn't democratic at all
as an american.... it is hard to talk about democracy when your own president won and an election but didn't win the popular vote....(gore had approximatly 2 million more votes than bush)
:) A couple of things that i will throw in there as well....
1) any attempts by the kurds to fight for independence with split not only iraq... but would drag turkey into the conflict....this would be EU membership seeking and NATO member Turkey.....
2) The US advocate democracy when it suits them..... If Saudi ever went democratic... the Islamic Fundermentalist would win.... Same in Egypt......Same in Algeria (where they actually called an election Void when that happened) Same in Morocco.....Same in Jordan... same in Syria,
3) if everything in "2" was to happen then israel would be surrounded by hardline islamic states.... can you see that sitting well with anyone.....
4) iran is actually the most democratic country in the region...which is ironic becaue before the islamic revolution it wasn't democratic at all
as an american.... it is hard to talk about democracy when your own president won and an election but didn't win the popular vote....(gore had approximatly 2 million more votes than bush)
Quote by blueocean
Worst case scenario for the outcome of an Invasion of Iran
Shias in southern Iraq stage an uprising. 8000 british troops at risk
Sunnis seeing that there is an uprising in southern Iraq stage one of their own.
In the north the kurds are nervous and fight for independence.
Syria seeing that they are next on the list. Watch and wait. If they act. They may invade Lebanon or iraq from the North.
Many Moslems states such as Egypt and Lebanon become unstable.
Israel becomes very nervous and Invades Palestines and Lebanon
Next Kaboom
Like I said God help us all. If those two nutters Bush and Blair have any plans for an invasion of Iran
Is that really the worst case scenario? For humanity probably but It really depends on your perspective. This scenario would give America and the UN the perfect excuse to take control over the whole area and control all of the oil.
We've already seen that America doesn't seem to mind casualties on either side as long as they get what they want.
Carl
:
It is the worst case scenario because no one would get contol of anything as the world would go up in smoke :(
Quote by fabio grooverider
oooooh.... middle eastern/ north african politics.... something juicy to get me mits into....
A couple of things that i will throw in there as well....
1) any attempts by the kurds to fight for independence with split not only iraq... but would drag turkey into the conflict....this would be EU membership seeking and NATO member Turkey.....
2) The US advocate democracy when it suits them..... If Saudi ever went democratic... the Islamic Fundermentalist would win.... Same in Egypt......Same in Algeria (where they actually called an election Void when that happened) Same in Morocco.....Same in Jordan... same in Syria,
3) if everything in "2" was to happen then israel would be surrounded by hardline islamic states.... can you see that sitting well with anyone.....
4) iran is actually the most democratic country in the region...which is ironic becaue before the islamic revolution it wasn't democratic at all
as an american.... it is hard to talk about democracy when your own president won and an election but didn't win the popular vote....(gore had approximatly 2 million more votes than bush)
I agree with you fabio. On point 4 its Ironic that the shah was supported by the western powers before the revolution. Shows their love of democracy. I think we are living in very scarey times
Quote by fabio grooverider
oooooh.... middle eastern/ north african politics.... something juicy to get me mits into....
A couple of things that i will throw in there as well....
1) any attempts by the kurds to fight for independence with split not only iraq... but would drag turkey into the conflict....this would be EU membership seeking and NATO member Turkey.....
2) The US advocate democracy when it suits them..... If Saudi ever went democratic... the Islamic Fundermentalist would win.... Same in Egypt......Same in Algeria (where they actually called an election Void when that happened) Same in Morocco.....Same in Jordan... same in Syria,
3) if everything in "2" was to happen then israel would be surrounded by hardline islamic states.... can you see that sitting well with anyone.....
4) iran is actually the most democratic country in the region...which is ironic becaue before the islamic revolution it wasn't democratic at all
as an american.... it is hard to talk about democracy when your own president won and an election but didn't win the popular vote....(gore had approximatly 2 million more votes than bush)
1. Turkey never got involved when Saddam was killing thousands of Kurds so why should they now.
2. I have lived in Egypt & Saudi and your wrong, the rest i can not comment on.
3. Israel coped easy enough in the seventies against the Arabs.
4. Iran was a far better place before the islamic revolution
Quote by bushwackers
[
1. Turkey never got involved when Saddam was killing thousands of Kurds so why should they now.
2. I have lived in Egypt & Saudi and your wrong, the rest i can not comment on.
3. Israel coped easy enough in the seventies against the Arabs.
4. Iran was a far better place before the islamic revolution
The world has moved on thats why.
If the US and Uk attacked Iran then this would cause Iraq to split even more. With the Shias taking up arms against the western occupiers. This would cause the sunni moslems to take up arms against the shias and western occupiers. Thus leaving the Kurds to take the chance to go for an Independent state. As their country takes in parts of Turkey I am sure the Turks would act.
The fact that another moslem country had been attacked would increase support for moslem fundamentalists in stable moslem countries
Yes Israel coped very well in the 70's but if they felt under threat then who knows what they might do. They are a nuclear power after all.
The shah of Iran wasn't very popular. Hence the revolution.
Orgasminator
My two pennies worth
At present i can't see an invasion of Iran happening. Simply because The U.S. (for example) cannot put enough boots on the ground to make it a winnable war. Current deployments to Afgahnistan, and Iraq, are already stretching the US forces.
Dropping or firing munitions into the country is not a politically viable option at this time, although the UK is slowly building a war of words with Iran, which maybe a precusser to something more aggressive.
A similar situation existed in the 70's, although back then it was comunist insurgency.
So, no i can't see a war with Iran happening in the near future, although within the next 10 years, then maybe.
At present i can't see an invasion of Iran happening. Simply because The U.S. (for example) cannot put enough boots on the ground to make it a winnable war. Current deployments to Afgahnistan, and Iraq, are already stretching the US forces.
Dropping or firing munitions into the country is not a politically viable option at this time, although the UK is slowly building a war of words with Iran, which maybe a precusser to something more aggressive.
A similar situation existed in the 70's, although back then it was comunist insurgency.
So, no i can't see a war with Iran happening in the near future, although within the next 10 years, then maybe.
but you posed a hypothetical question which has no basis in contemporary reality, as we know it. What do you think would have happened to civilisation by the time we're having to ride bikes to work, stoke wood fires or have to sew for entertainment? You also forget the point that oil producers need a market to sell oil into. There would be no advantage to them in not doing so as they would soon suffer financially.
The question was hypothetical yes but if you belive that no discussion and planning has already taken place for this scenario Im afraid your not living in the real world.
As for there being no advantage in not selling oil to the western markets ,You are applying western thinking .There is no advantage to any state to support terrorist acts against another country but certain islamic regimes do it you imagine for one second that anyone of the same ilk as osama bin laden would not use oil to bring the west to its knees ?.There is a groundswell of support throughout the arab world for isalmic fundamentalism saudi arabia is a prime example of this .
That's why I qualified my statement by saying in 'contemporary reality', we can hypothesise until we're blue in the face and speculate on what if's and using your supposition of course people may respond differently and perhaps outrageously. The point I was trying to make was taking things as we have them now, an invasion of Iran, purely for the procurement of oil would be an outrageous act of terrorism and imho would therefore not be a justifiable objective.
Your second point is also interesting, are you suggesting that only islamic regimes support terrorism..if so isn't that a naive view? Undoubtedly the power of oil is great, but how exactly would it be used to bring the west to its knees? Arab oil producers need oil revenue. The US has huge oil reserves. I think Arab countries that support terrorism would have gone long skint before the US started over worrying about where their next gallon was coming from!
Quote by Devon1
My two pennies worth
At present i can't see an invasion of Iran happening. Simply because The U.S. (for example) cannot put enough boots on the ground to make it a winnable war. Current deployments to Afgahnistan, and Iraq, are already stretching the US forces.
Dropping or firing munitions into the country is not a politically viable option at this time, although the UK is slowly building a war of words with Iran, which maybe a precusser to something more aggressive.
A similar situation existed in the 70's, although back then it was comunist insurgency.
So, no i can't see a war with Iran happening in the near future, although within the next 10 years, then maybe.
I really hope you are right but even though if not immediate another war in the Middle East would be a catastrophic disaster. That would have dire consequences for mankind
Quote by HuxleyNSusie
Israel would have no qualms about using severe measures to protect itself .if it wasn't for the restraining influence of the americans they would be a bigger threat to world peace than north korea
I agree it is quite amusing how they are allowed a nuclear arsenal and others are'nt
Orgasminator
Quote by HuxleyNSusie
Israel would have no qualms about using severe measures to protect itself .if it wasn't for the restraining influence of the americans they would be a bigger threat to world peace than north korea
What like the 2-400 nuclear warheads they have (best guess, they're not part of the NPT and refuse to officially confirm that they have nuclear weapons)? Not to mention that the US and Europe have sold them state of the art delivery systems (F-16s from the US, modern diesel-electric hunter/killer submarines from Germany, etc).
I sincerely hope the UK doesn't join in an invasion of Iran, I don't think public opinion would stand for it (though I have noticed the attempts by the government to claim that Shia insurgents in Iraq were being supported by Iran). I don't think the US would do so in the current climate, Bush is too busy dealing with the anti-war movement and corruption scandals that are getting closer and closer to him. He may decide to do a Clinton and bomb them to deflect media attention from himself.
Why do threads like this come up when I'm
a) trying to revise for my OU exam on Tuesday.
b) trying not to type as I've got tennis elbow and need to rest it so I can do said exam. :cry:
Orgasminator
Quote by Deviated Prevert
Israel would have no qualms about using severe measures to protect itself .if it wasn't for the restraining influence of the americans they would be a bigger threat to world peace than north korea
What like the 2-400 nuclear warheads they have (best guess, they're not part of the NPT and refuse to officially confirm that they have nuclear weapons)? Not to mention that the US and Europe have sold them state of the art delivery systems (F-16s from the US, modern diesel-electric hunter/killer submarines from Germany, etc).
I sincerely hope the UK doesn't join in an invasion of Iran, I don't think public opinion would stand for it (though I have noticed the attempts by the government to claim that Shia insurgents in Iraq were being supported by Iran). I don't think the US would do so in the current climate, Bush is too busy dealing with the anti-war movement and corruption scandals that are getting closer and closer to him. He may decide to do a Clinton and bomb them to deflect media attention from himself.
Why do threads like this come up when I'm
a) trying to revise for my OU exam on Tuesday.
b) trying not to type as I've got tennis elbow and need to rest it so I can do said exam. :cry:
To be honest, i think its a fair claim by the UK government. They have known it for a long time, but are only using this information at this time.
Just a cotton pickin minute here!
Firstly, don't worry about a war with Iran. It's ging to happen and theres nothing you or I can do about it. We are a greedy species and we need oil so we will go and take it eventually, we have a history of bullying the weak in order to satisfy our own perceived need, western sociaty that is. If we don't do it first then China will have to to continue it's own burgeoning growth rate.
What we really need is a damn good disease, bird flu for instance, now thats a beauty. Wipe out half the population of the earth, reduce ozone emmisions and the requirement to use so much oil, no war, problem solved with the knock on advantage of reducing the worlds ever increasing food requirement. Have a read of Stephen Hawkings book 'A Brief History of Time'. One section reminds us that the earth is not, in fact, producing any more matter than it had, say, 10,000 years ago. If thats is the case, and I have no reason not to believe this, then given that the population has increased so much in that time just what has been used up! When will we run out of 'stuff' to make people from! And is Elvis really part of me....wow
We could go on with hypothetical scenario's ad infinitum, it's all guesswork, but past history indicates that when we want something that someone has badly enough, and if we are stronger than that person/country, then we go a take it.
Just my mindless thoughts for today...have fun everybody!
Firstly, don't worry about a war with Iran. It's ging to happen and theres nothing you or I can do about it. We are a greedy species and we need oil so we will go and take it eventually, we have a history of bullying the weak in order to satisfy our own perceived need, western sociaty that is. If we don't do it first then China will have to to continue it's own burgeoning growth rate.
What we really need is a damn good disease, bird flu for instance, now thats a beauty. Wipe out half the population of the earth, reduce ozone emmisions and the requirement to use so much oil, no war, problem solved with the knock on advantage of reducing the worlds ever increasing food requirement. Have a read of Stephen Hawkings book 'A Brief History of Time'. One section reminds us that the earth is not, in fact, producing any more matter than it had, say, 10,000 years ago. If thats is the case, and I have no reason not to believe this, then given that the population has increased so much in that time just what has been used up! When will we run out of 'stuff' to make people from! And is Elvis really part of me....wow
We could go on with hypothetical scenario's ad infinitum, it's all guesswork, but past history indicates that when we want something that someone has badly enough, and if we are stronger than that person/country, then we go a take it.
Just my mindless thoughts for today...have fun everybody!
Quote by goodporking
Just a cotton pickin minute here!
Firstly, don't worry about a war with Iran. It's ging to happen and theres nothing you or I can do about it. We are a greedy species and we need oil so we will go and take it eventually, we have a history of bullying the weak in order to satisfy our own perceived need, western sociaty that is. If we don't do it first then China will have to to continue it's own burgeoning growth rate.
What we really need is a damn good disease, bird flu for instance, now thats a beauty. Wipe out half the population of the earth, reduce ozone emmisions and the requirement to use so much oil, no war, problem solved with the knock on advantage of reducing the worlds ever increasing food requirement. Have a read of Stephen Hawkings book 'A Brief History of Time'. One section reminds us that the earth is not, in fact, producing any more matter than it had, say, 10,000 years ago. If thats is the case, and I have no reason not to believe this, then given that the population has increased so much in that time just what has been used up! When will we run out of 'stuff' to make people from! And is Elvis really part of me....wow
We could go on with hypothetical scenario's ad infinitum, it's all guesswork, but past history indicates that when we want something that someone has badly enough, and if we are stronger than that person/country, then we go a take it.
Just my mindless thoughts for today...have fun everybody!
Believe me you wont need a case of bird flu if you invade Iran
Sex God
Quote by bushwackers
1. Turkey never got involved when Saddam was killing thousands of Kurds so why should they now.
2. I have lived in Egypt & Saudi and your wrong, the rest i can not comment on.
3. Israel coped easy enough in the seventies against the Arabs.
4. Iran was a far better place before the islamic revolution
to Answer your points......god i love a political arguement.....
1) the Reason why Turkey would be dragged in is that the homeland the Kurds would be fighting for (kurdistan) is actually made up of parts of Iraq and Turkey...... (The closest example i can think of off the top of my head is kashmir, which is split between india and pakistan) anyway.... the turkish Government won't even recognise the kurds... hence the apalling human rights record......IF turkey were to get dragged in then then both the EU and NATO would act as any attack on one is seen as an attack on all....
2) you may have live in egypt and saudi..... it is the Reason that Egypt won't hold elections, if there was ever to be a fair election i would certainly have a bet with you...
3) late 60's early seventies... a long time ago, and i would suggest that most countries are a lot better equipped now... and at the time they were fighting one border at a time., i would hazzard a guess that if they were having to fight and protect all fronts they may well be a lot more stretched......
4) you say that Iran was a better place before the revolution.... i would probably agree that the rich were very cosy....... but i don't quite get your point......are you saying that it is better not to be democratic then?????
Quote by fabio grooverider
1. Turkey never got involved when Saddam was killing thousands of Kurds so why should they now.
2. I have lived in Egypt & Saudi and your wrong, the rest i can not comment on.
3. Israel coped easy enough in the seventies against the Arabs.
4. Iran was a far better place before the islamic revolution
to Answer your points......god i love a political arguement.....
1) the Reason why Turkey would be dragged in is that the homeland the Kurds would be fighting for (kurdistan) is actually made up of parts of Iraq and Turkey...... (The closest example i can think of off the top of my head is kashmir, which is split between india and pakistan) anyway.... the turkish Government won't even recognise the kurds... hence the apalling human rights record......IF turkey were to get dragged in then then both the EU and NATO would act as any attack on one is seen as an attack on all....
2) you may have live in egypt and saudi..... it is the Reason that Egypt won't hold elections, if there was ever to be a fair election i would certainly have a bet with you...
3) late 60's early seventies... a long time ago, and i would suggest that most countries are a lot better equipped now... and at the time they were fighting one border at a time., i would hazzard a guess that if they were having to fight and protect all fronts they may well be a lot more stretched......
4) you say that Iran was a better place before the revolution.... i would probably agree that the rich were very cosy....... but i don't quite get your point......are you saying that it is better not to be democratic then?????
On Oct. 6, 1973, the Jewish holy day Yom Kippur, a two-pronged assault on Israel was launched. Egyptian forces struck eastward across the Suez Canal and pushed the Israelis back, while the Syrians advanced from the north. Iraqi forces joined the war and, in addition, Syria received some support from Jordan, Libya, and the smaller Arab states. The attacks caught Israel off guard, and it was several days before the country was fully mobilized; Israel then forced the Syrians and Egyptians back and, in the last hours of the war, established a salient on the west bank of
