Just my opinion but...

30 Apr 2005

Quote by neilinleeds

i really hate to say things like this, cos it sounds like hankering after the good old days, but i've never seen the cafe so poor. it has it's dips from time to time, but the last month or two it seems particularly weak, and it's not serving the purpose it's designed for, as i and some others who've said the same thing to me would see it.

just want to qualify that, cos it reads a tad harsh . . .
i think what's happening, is a lot like a crowd of regulars hanging out in the pub chatting, then in comes a new group, who are so loud and excited, the regs can't hear themselves think? instead of the newer ones sitting down at the same table as the regs and joining in with the conversations, they talk over the top of everyone else. locking threads is kinda like encouraging them to join in a bit more with the people who are already here.

neil x x x ;)

Some good point here, but i have to disagree, the cafe has seen worse days!!At least now the crap gets locked and isnt left to one or two people to write as much rubbish as they like!!!
I agree however that all the regulars seem to gang up on newbies. Why do they do that? Wothout some new blood this forum will become so incesteious (or however you spell it)
Maybee it would be a good idea if some simple guidlines were drafted up, givig us all some guidlines on what to post and what not to post?
Anyway sure i could write much more on this subject but like KitKat real likfe is calling

30 Apr 2005

Quote by UKman37
You actually locked two ... but no matter.

Exactly. No matter. I have said twice that I trust this matter is now over. You have had a full explanation privately and in public and you have admitted you breached the AUP. I now not only trust this particular matter is over, I KNOW it is.
Off to do something else other than feed trolls :sleeping: .

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Maybee it would be a good idea if some simple guidlines were drafted up, givig us all some guidlines on what to post and what not to post?

That would be this then:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/15156.html
....Stickied as an announcement at the top of each forum. Seems that not many people do bother reading this before they post for the first time.
Or do you think these guidelines should be more specific, foxylady?

30 Apr 2005

Just adding in a couple of my personal thoughts on the locking issue...
I still like the idea of a place where simply crap threads (as opposed to blatant AUP violations that requie a mod-edit to delete offending content) get moved to rather than being locked. I've seen a few suggestions about what this could be called, and I've seen a few similar ones made elsewhere, but I think I now have the answer... the 4 forums should be:
"The Cafe", "Lets Meet up", "Dogging" and " :shock: "
I think that carries the right level of disapproval, and would cut down the amount of time and patience that mods use up dealing with 'why did my thread get locked' posts.
Secondly, does the forum software allow thread-merging? I've seen this used effectively to de-clutter techie forums where 90% of the uers sign up, ask a single question and leave happily when they get the answer, but it can confuse people. Linked to an automated e-mail from the forum explaining what has been done, and leaving the content open to be added to might be seen as less of a bitchslap by the poster... this might work especially well if the merge does not bump the old thread.

30 Apr 2005

Bluexxx

Exactly. No matter. I have said twice that I trust this matter is now over. You have had a full explanation privately and in public and you have admitted you breached the AUP. I now not only trust this particular matter is over, I KNOW it is.
Off to do something else other than feed trolls

I'm not now talking about the incident where I had my posts locked, but about the whole issue of locking in general with other contributors who obviously have differing thoughts and feelings over whether it occurs too frequently and too soon. It was you who raised the issue again earlier. My situation has been dealt with but I am still free to discuss with other contributors issues around locking. Please try and keep an objective eye.
I'm certainly no troll! I'm simply engaging in a debate that has obviously grabbed quite a few people's interests! There is little gained from calling people names ... it only alienates. There are no trolls here that I recognise... only people wanting to discuss a thorny issue. Isn't it insulting to insinuate that people who take the time to contribute on threads such as these are nothing more than timewasters and trolls? Isn't this just another example of flouncing? Not off the site of course ... but walking out of a discussion whilst calling people names?
To everyone ....
There is obviously some disagreement over what the Cafe shold be about. Kitkat has given their very succint overview of what they feel it should be .. and I agree with them, such honesty and openess can only be helpful.
The problem is, the forum posting rules allow people to post on anything and everything, so I can't very well see how they can be pulled up if they do just that! And this if from someone who would like to see the Cafe become something akin to what kitkat has described.
The only solution I can think of it possibly to split the forum .....
Have an "Introductions Forum" where new contributors can come in and say hi, chat about whatever they like and make themselves at home.
Some people are here still deciding if this is really for them. I would count myself as someone who knows he would like one-to-one meets with like minded females -but remain open minded about other aspects of the Swinging lifestye... ruling nothing in and ruling nothing out.
The cafe could then become more of what kitkat has described ... more of place for seasoned regulars maybe! But of course, there would be nothing to stop regulars popping into the introductions forum, inviting people across and raising topics that would challenge them somewhat!
These are just my thoughts ... for what they are worth.
In terms of attitude I think the golden rule ALWAYS applies - treat others as you want to be treated - with dignity and respect.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Mister_Discreet
I've seen a few similar ones made elsewhere, but I think I now have the answer... the 4 forums should be:
"The Cafe", "Lets Meet up", "Dogging" and " :shock: "
I think that carries the right level of disapproval, and would cut down the amount of time and patience that mods use up dealing with 'why did my thread get locked' posts.
...................
Secondly, does the forum software allow thread-merging?

Yes, I've seen forums where they have lots of different places for very specific things. Personally, I don't like it when there are lots of possible places to post, especially when there are different places for different types of meet ups.... but that's not what you're on about here, is it Mr D! smile

... As far as splitting the chatting threads into differnt places, we've had various discussions on how this might be done. Having one for introductions only (as one other board I have a membership on also does) seems a bit silly to me as it divides the newbies even more from the established posters (I think Kat made that point very well on another thread quite recently). Having something like a a "junk" forum would also be problematic (in my personal view) as people would then start arguing about what was junk and what wasn't! Then the mods would have another level of crap to wade through!
Your second point is a good one. We can't at the mo merge threads, but I agree it would be VERY useful. It has been mentioned to Mark previously about having the ability to do that - it may well be on his (very long) to do list - but I agree that merging would solve some of the current problems and would mean that less duplicated threads would need to be locked or deleted
:)

30 Apr 2005

Quote by UKman37
...the forum posting rules allow people to post on anything and everything

Apart from:
Anything illegal, including (but not limited to!) the promotion, suggestion or allusion to , or any non consensual acts, drugs (including misuse of prescribed medicines), or any other kind illegal activity.
Anything hateful, like racist remarks, or using offensive terms offensively.
Abusive or aggressive behaviour towards other people on here.
Posting a telephone number anywhere on this site.
Escorting ads or any pay-for-sex type services like 0909 numbers, or pay-for 'gangbang/bukkake parties'.
Advertising for 'stars' for video shoots or photo shoots.
Attempting to sell a service or product of any kind.
Pposts that are only put up in order to exchange pictures, videos or offer photography services or some such.
and Spamming - this means posting a link to a site that is only for commercial purposes and is not a genuine Swingers resource.
Conversely, the forum rules allso allow the mods to delete "anything and everything", so your argment isn't very convincing to me!
I think the best way to look at this is to realise that the Mods are trying to make this site as useful and interesting to the readership as they can. What you consider to be a worthwhile post might not be what the Mods, or the readership at large want to read. Mods are giving their time for free to make the overall SH experience better, not to make your personal SH experience worse - when that happens it's simply an unfortunate side-effect of the very useful moderation process. The Mods have the best interests of the community at heart, and being experienced long-time users of the site themselves they know the community a lot better than you do.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by bluexxx
Maybee it would be a good idea if some simple guidlines were drafted up, givig us all some guidlines on what to post and what not to post?

That would be this then:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/15156.html
....Stickied as an announcement at the top of each forum. Seems that not many people do bother reading this before they post for the first time.
Or do you think these guidelines should be more specific, foxylady?
Ok Blue, I must admit i had forgotten about those guidelines redface

I rarely look at the top of the Cafe page, not being a poetry type!!
However , i have just read through them and they seem reasonable, however in light of current events, i co think they could do with updating and making more specific

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Maybee it would be a good idea if some simple guidlines were drafted up, givig us all some guidlines on what to post and what not to post?

That would be this then:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/15156.html
....Stickied as an announcement at the top of each forum. Seems that not many people do bother reading this before they post for the first time.
Or do you think these guidelines should be more specific, foxylady?
Ok Blue, I must admit i had forgotten about those guidelines redface

I rarely look at the top of the Cafe page, not being a poetry type!!
However , i have just read through them and they seem reasonable, however in light of current events, i co think they could do with updating and making more specific
Of course, if those guidelines were enforced rigidly there would be no forums. The requirement to search before posting? Let's have a look at the logic of that shall we?
Let's say I want to say something about outdoor sex, for example. Being guided by the guidelines, I would put the word "outdoor" in the search engine. 500 threads. OK folks, bear with me while I wade through those 500 threads just to make sure the point I want to make hasn't been made before. Oh dear, it seems my point has been made before. In fact, the entire subject has been done to death, so let's just lock those 500 threads and slag off anyone who has the audacity to raise the subject again. What's that you say? There is a newbie who wasn't around before and wants to have their say? Tough shit, rules are rules.
Now apply that to every other topic that has ever been discussed here and we find that nothing can be discussed because everything has been discussed before, all attempts to start a thread are met with "The search button is your friend", nobody posts anything, everyone leaves and the newbie baiters can carry on with their hobby without the annoyance of existing members getting in the way.
Obviously it would be ridiculous to try to enforce the rule as inflexibly as that, but unfortunately there are one or two people who seem determined to do exactly that. rolleyes

30 Apr 2005

Ice Pie
I can see what your saying and im not sure that duplication of a topic over time is that bad a thing. Newbies may not haves seen topics that have been discussed in the past and people do change or develp their opinions over time.
ThoughI suppose what non of us want is to see the same topics appearing week in and week out

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Ice Pie
I can see what your saying and im not sure that duplication of a topic over time is that bad a thing. Newbies may not haves seen topics that have been discussed in the past and people do change or develp their opinions over time.
ThoughI suppose what non of us want is to see the same topics appearing week in and week out

Agreed, I just think some of the thread locking has got a bit over-zealous lately.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Ice Pie
I can see what your saying and im not sure that duplication of a topic over time is that bad a thing. Newbies may not haves seen topics that have been discussed in the past and people do change or develp their opinions over time.
ThoughI suppose what non of us want is to see the same topics appearing week in and week out

Agreed, I just think some of the thread locking has got a bit over-zealous lately.
surprised

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
(My God , Ice Pie agreed with me!!)
So how then do you suggest that we stop people repeatedly posting the same topics??

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
(My God , Ice Pie agreed with me!!)

Please do not adjust your set. Our engineers are working towards a resolution of this fault, and normal service will be resumed as quickly as possible. :P

So how then do you suggest that we stop people repeatedly posting the same topics??

Exactly as at present when it's the same thing several times a day and there are half a dozen more or less identical threads on page one. But not every time someone mentions a topic that was discussed before they even joined, which is the way it's been going lately. It is simply not reasonable to expect every new member to search the entire forum history before daring to speak on any subject, and telling them "The search button is your friend" is disrespectful, dismissive, of no help whatsoever, and above all makes people feel very unwelcome.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
(My God , Ice Pie agreed with me!!)

Please do not adjust your set. Our engineers are working towards a resolution of this fault, and normal service will be resumed as quickly as possible. :P

So how then do you suggest that we stop people repeatedly posting the same topics??

Exactly as at present when it's the same thing several times a day and there are half a dozen more or less identical threads on page one. But not every time someone mentions a topic that was discussed before they even joined, which is the way it's been going lately. It is simply not reasonable to expect every new member to search the entire forum history before daring to speak on any subject, and telling them "The search button is your friend" is disrespectful, dismissive, of no help whatsoever, and above all makes people feel very unwelcome.
I dint for one minute think that normal service would be ressumed as sonn as possible!!
Also im wondering would it be reasonable to have continuos threads running on the top 5 most ppular topics?Perhaps tuck them away in a corner and let newbies read them at their leisure?

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Also im wondering would it be reasonable to have continuos threads running on the top 5 most ppular topics?Perhaps tuck them away in a corner and let newbies read them at their leisure?

Well, I think that could be useful for the really repetitive stuff - willy size, shaving your bits, blue's parties... you know, boring stuff like that ;)
I think a "boring bin" or whatever you might want to call it for stuff that is completely off topic might be useful instead of having to lock all the "Guess what I had for dinner" type nonsense. Trouble with that is people might get uppity about having stuff moved there and it turns into a flame war forum. It'd depend on how tactfully it was done (like calling it something a bit more pleasant than the boring bin :lol2: )

30 Apr 2005

Thinking about this, perhaps a simple change to make would be adding a couple of simple, polite lines to the "new topic" page, right above the Subject and Message Body boxes where it would be very hard to miss when starting a new topic. It could say something along the lines of...
We already have threads about common topics like 'To Shave or Not' and 'Is Size Important'. If you have a problem getting into the chatroom please go here to get help instead of posting about it. If you are wondering why you've had a topic locked, please PM a Mod and ask instead of posting a new topic about it.
... or course where those links would go needs a bit of thought smile

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Also im wondering would it be reasonable to have continuos threads running on the top 5 most ppular topics?Perhaps tuck them away in a corner and let newbies read them at their leisure?

Well, I think that could be useful for the really repetitive stuff - willy size, shaving your bits, blue's parties... you know, boring stuff like that ;)
I think a "boring bin" or whatever you might want to call it for stuff that is completely off topic might be useful instead of having to lock all the "Guess what I had for dinner" type nonsense. Trouble with that is people might get uppity about having stuff moved there and it turns into a flame war forum. It'd depend on how tactfully it was done (like calling it something a bit more pleasant than the boring bin :lol2: )
Your right "boring bin" isnt one of your most tactfull suggestions.
I was thiniking along the lines of the topics you mentioned having their own space, as reference articles almost, perhpas like the poetry thread at the top of the page?
As for the , "Guess what i had for dinner type posts" they ought to be locked and some nasty, painful punsihemnt devised for their original author, especially if they re offends!!
What i wouldnt like to see is the cafe becoming totaly sex focussed. Ok its an adult forum but surely someontimes most of us are capable of intelligent or fun conversations about other subjects? Whats wrong with talking to friends, who one may or may not , swing with, about other topics
One thing that always makes me think of SH is the cream carpet we have in the spare bedroom. I once spilt red wine on it and couldnt remember what to do to clean the stain up. As i already had sh on i started a thread asking for help. I think it was Vix who came up with the solution and the stain disapeared. Was that wrong, too trivial and off topic for the Cafe?

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Was that wrong, too trivial and off topic for the Cafe?

Not from your POV since you were the one with the problem at the time. I think things like that can be safely locked though because people can answer you in PM.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Was that wrong, too trivial and off topic for the Cafe?

Not from your POV since you were the one with the problem at the time. I think things like that can be safely locked though because people can answer you in PM.
I suppose what your trying to say is that you couldnt give a shit about my carpet or the red wine?
ok fair comment and i know that one thread that i had locked, bercause it was against the rules, certainly got me replies via pm, so yes you could have a point there.
Now please Ice Pie waht is wrong with you, im very concerned, your agreeing and being tactful with me. Should i call 999?

30 Apr 2005

Quote by foxylady 123
Was that wrong, too trivial and off topic for the Cafe?

Not from your POV since you were the one with the problem at the time. I think things like that can be safely locked though because people can answer you in PM.
I suppose what your trying to say is that you couldnt give a shit about my carpet or the red wine?
ok fair comment and i know that one thread that i had locked, bercause it was against the rules, certainly got me replies via pm, so yes you could have a point there.
Now please Ice Pie waht is wrong with you, im very concerned, your agreeing and being tactful with me. Should i call 999?
There is nothing wrong with me, I just have a headache and can't deal with people shouting at me today, so I'm pretending to be nice. Don't bother getting used to it, I'll be fine tomorrow. ;)

30 Apr 2005

Quote by neilinleeds
i really hate to say things like this, cos it sounds like hankering after the good old days, but i've never seen the cafe so poor. it has it's dips from time to time, but the last month or two it seems particularly weak, and it's not serving the purpose it's designed for, as i and some others who've said the same thing to me would see it.
i think what's happening, is a lot like a crowd of regulars hanging out in the pub chatting, then in comes a new group, who are so loud and excited, the regs can't hear themselves think? instead of the newer ones sitting down at the same table as the regs and joining in with the conversations, they talk over the top of everyone else. locking threads is kinda like encouraging them to join in a bit more with the people who are already here.
neil x x x ;)

That's exactly how I feel too Neil - you put it in a nutshell. Any of us could put posts in every single thread if we wanted to (it's no great achievement), most of us choose not to, but restrict our contributions to when we really feel we have something to post, whether serious or humorous.
Mike.

30 Apr 2005

I have seen other forums where things got so rediculous that a 'Chutzpa Lounge' was opened. All stupidity was moved there. Sometimes the threads would continue once moved, sometimes not. But what did happen is they stopped cluttering the main forums. No extra software is needed for this measure, I have seen it work, it works well.
Just a thought guys!! wink

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Was that wrong, too trivial and off topic for the Cafe?

Not from your POV since you were the one with the problem at the time. I think things like that can be safely locked though because people can answer you in PM.
I'm not sure that I would agree with locking in that circumstance unless the initial poster asks for it to be locked.
The point of a public forum is surely to be public. I have learned a lot about pc problems by reading the techie threads which could have been locked after the initial enquiry but weren't. I'm sure that many people have found similar threads useful, not just the thread starter.
Many threads could be carried on in pm. All the threads that ask for information could be answered by pm, munch and party thank yous could be pmed to the organisor, all the lets meet up threads could be by pm after the first post but the forum would be a poorer place for it. One of the attractions of this forum is its diversity. The pointlessness of a thread is often a subjective opinion. If it is truly pointless it will sink.
This discussion has a similarity to the thread about munch behaviour. In the end it comes down to people taking an adult attitude to posting. This would be helped by a more consistent locking of problem threads. Some threads are locked, yet very similar threads are allowed to run. A clearer definition of inappropriate threads in the sticky would help because everyone would clearly know where they stood. The catch-all 'mods discretion' clause should be rarely used because that is where accusations of bias or favouritism can creep in.

30 Apr 2005

Ok.. heres my 2 cents.... not that anyone probably cares.. but...
I have been an avid campainger for human rights and I am dedicated to the right to free speach....
I also beleive in the right for freedom of expression....
However, when someone expresses views which are oppressive of other people's right to free speach - they sacrifice that right.
EG. "all XXXX (insert whichever group of individuals the particular person is ranting about) should be shot at birth"
Im not saying that tounge in cheek comments should be deleted, or that peoples opposing views should not be debated.. personnaly I am a great fan of debate and people's political views should be expressed.
But when someone is actively promoting the oppression of other people's human rights then they cannot claim they then have every right to encourage such behaviour. Hence why there are often no platform policies and rules in many organisations and online forums.
I do not believe that pionting to the international bill for human rights and claiming you have a right to express your views is justified if, by your very actions and words are oppressing sombody elses right to exist and express themselves. People may say that those people who are being oppressed can then express their views in contradication and therefore the equation is balanced.
But I disagree, even if someone posts straight after disagreeing with such a person, then that message has already been said and its very existance is oppressive, even if one person does not feel oppressed by its existance the fact still remains that it is oppressive.
That may not make any sense as Im not always good at expressing myself - but my main point within this wittering is - if you wish to remove someones elses right to free speach and expression, then you cannot claim such a right for your self.
If however, you are discussing political/emotional or any other views that are not abusive and prejudice against others, then everyone has the right to express these points without hinderance or oppression.
Ok.. now Im done....
Sini
biggrin

ps. this all of course works on the premice that all peoples are equal - which is something I personnaly believe in deeply.....

30 Apr 2005

Well said NorthEastCple, Ice and Foxy I would suggest a 'Off Topic' forum. Seen this in a few sites, off topic can mean what we need it to mean and does not sound inflamatory like 'Crap Bin'
Combine this with Kats great, simple, clearer definition of what the cafe is for them and I think we getting somewhere...
Anything can start in the cafe, if it is dying a death, the seventh today, or in the mods view against the clearer guidlines of where the cafe is going it takes a quick trip to the off topic bin. There it can continue and if a subset of people have actually got into a debate (i.e. on horseriding or anything) this can continue in the off topic world without bumping to the top of the cafe every 5 mins...
Now I agree with Blue that we don't want 25 forums for every topic, but locking a thread is so final and can stiflle a few people having a chat about somthing that is boring everyone else to tears. Surely an area out of the way where they can continue without affecting the main social area is better than closing down the discussion? One single forum for all off topic threads I feel would be a really neat solution, and common in the forum world.
There is one other advantage, as a newbe seeing a pile of 'Locked' threads is I feel intimidating. Better to see a nice clear page of threads in the vane of the topics you want to be discussing. Moving rather than locking actually keeps the cafe clearer.
I also agree with Mr Discreet that the guidelines in brief and maybe a 'Mods Comments for the week' would be a useful addition to the start a thread box. That way if a topic is really driving the Mods mad they can forewarn people that if they star t another ... thread it will be in the 'Off Topic' bin.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Mav&Sini
Ok.. heres my 2 cents.... not that anyone probably cares.. but...
I have been an avid campainger for human rights and I am dedicated to the right to free speach....
I also beleive in the right for freedom of expression....
However, when someone expresses views which are oppressive of other people's right to free speach - they sacrifice that right.
EG. "all XXXX (insert whichever group of individuals the particular person is ranting about) should be shot at birth"
Im not saying that tounge in cheek comments should be deleted, or that peoples opposing views should not be debated.. personnaly I am a great fan of debate and people's political views should be expressed.
But when someone is actively promoting the oppression of other people's human rights then they cannot claim they then have every right to encourage such behaviour. Hence why there are often no platform policies and rules in many organisations and online forums.
I do not believe that pionting to the international bill for human rights and claiming you have a right to express your views is justified if, by your very actions and words are oppressing sombody elses right to exist and express themselves. People may say that those people who are being oppressed can then express their views in contradication and therefore the equation is balanced.
But I disagree, even if someone posts straight after disagreeing with such a person, then that message has already been said and its very existance is oppressive, even if one person does not feel oppressed by its existance the fact still remains that it is oppressive.
That may not make any sense as Im not always good at expressing myself - but my main point within this wittering is - if you wish to remove someones elses right to free speach and expression, then you cannot claim such a right for your self.
If however, you are discussing political/emotional or any other views that are not abusive and prejudice against others, then everyone has the right to express these points without hinderance or oppression.
Ok.. now Im done....
Sini

ps. this all of course works on the premice that all peoples are equal - which is something I personnaly believe in deeply.....

Good post, and well thought out. Unfortunately I can't give you rep points in here! smile

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Mav&Sini
Ok.. heres my 2 cents.... not that anyone probably cares.. but...
I have been an avid campainger for human rights and I am dedicated to the right to free speach....
I also beleive in the right for freedom of expression....
However, when someone expresses views which are oppressive of other people's right to free speach - they sacrifice that right.

So by oppressing my right to say something you don't like because you consider it oppressive, you forfeit your right to free speech? No, didn't think so. People who talk about free speech generally reserve the right to say whatever they like, which is completely missing the point, and at the same time presume to tell others what they can and can't say.
All of which is beside the point. Freedom of speech is not the issue here. This is not a democracy, it's a private website. The owner of said website permits debate, but he doesn't take votes, and I hope he never does. The captain of a ship may listen to arguments and base decisions on the persuasiveness of those arguments, but I've never heard of a captain asking for a show of hands. Mark's the captain of this ship, and you can campaign as much as you like, the only freedoms you're entitled to on here are the ones he grants you, and that includes what you are and aren't allowed to say. That's the reality, like it or lump it.

30 Apr 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Ok.. heres my 2 cents.... not that anyone probably cares.. but...
I have been an avid campainger for human rights and I am dedicated to the right to free speach....
I also beleive in the right for freedom of expression....
However, when someone expresses views which are oppressive of other people's right to free speach - they sacrifice that right.

So by oppressing my right to say something you don't like because you consider it oppressive, you forfeit your right to free speech? No, didn't think so. People who talk about free speech generally reserve the right to say whatever they like, which is completely missing the point, and at the same time presume to tell others what they can and can't say.
All of which is beside the point. Freedom of speech is not the issue here. This is not a democracy, it's a private website. The owner of said website permits debate, but he doesn't take votes, and I hope he never does. The captain of a ship may listen to arguments and base decisions on the persuasiveness of those arguments, but I've never heard of a captain asking for a show of hands. Mark's the captain of this ship, and you can campaign as much as you like, the only freedoms you're entitled to on here are the ones he grants you, and that includes what you are and aren't allowed to say. That's the reality, like it or lump it. :evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :giggle: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2: :evil2:
Im so glad your better now IP!!!
kiss

:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

30 Apr 2005

Apart from:
Anything illegal, including (but not limited to!) the promotion, suggestion or allusion to , or any non consensual acts, drugs (including misuse of prescribed medicines), or any other kind illegal activity.
Anything hateful, like racist remarks, or using offensive terms offensively.
Abusive or aggressive behaviour towards other people on here.
Posting a telephone number anywhere on this site.
Escorting ads or any pay-for-sex type services like 0909 numbers, or pay-for 'gangbang/bukkake parties'.
Advertising for 'stars' for video shoots or photo shoots.
Attempting to sell a service or product of any kind.
Pposts that are only put up in order to exchange pictures, videos or offer photography services or some such.
and Spamming - this means posting a link to a site that is only for commercial purposes and is not a genuine Swingers resource.
Conversely, the forum rules allso allow the mods to delete "anything and everything", so your argment isn't very convincing to me!

Good points! And this is where the whole issue becomes confusing! This only seems to highlight for me that there can't be a "free for all" on both sides ... and that there must be quite a lot of give and take.
I simply read "anything and everything" as the cafe being a place where ANY topic whatsover can be discussed. We COULD potentially discuss in here, provided that we WEREN'T promoting it. We could discuss ANY illegal activity, provided we weren't promoting anything illegal... if you see what I mean.

I think the best way to look at this is to realise that the Mods are trying to make this site as useful and interesting to the readership as they can. What you consider to be a worthwhile post might not be what the Mods, or the readership at large want to read.

No, that is true. It has been discussed earlier that people are free to vote with their feet though - and posts will sink naturally to the bottom of the pile.
What is certain is that opinion will continue to be divided on this .. and that is no bad thing. It's that type of disagreement that will keep dragging the topic up and cause everyone on the site to re-examine ourselves.

Mods are giving their time for free to make the overall SH experience better, not to make your personal SH experience worse - when that happens it's simply an unfortunate side-effect of the very useful moderation process. The Mods have the best interests of the community at heart, and being experienced long-time users of the site themselves they know the community a lot better than you do.

This is all very true and I accept what you say. In my previous posts I have said that I don't claim to know it all, and that I might be missing something too. I am quite open to that fact. I am here to learn.

1 May 2005

Quote by tallnhairy
Well said NorthEastCple, Ice and Foxy I would suggest a 'Off Topic' forum. Seen this in a few sites, off topic can mean what we need it to mean and does not sound inflamatory like 'Crap Bin'
Combine this with Kats great, simple, clearer definition of what the cafe is for them and I think we getting somewhere...

I gotta disagree T&H. I see no reason why the 'off topic' and by that I take it to mean having no reference to swinging, should be put away in another area called the pub or the dump room or what ever. I do believe that if you did that then , yes you would get a cafe that reseambled kats vision of what he would like to see, I also believe that you would actually turn it into a pretty dull place. Lets face it, the old whinge of "this has been done to death" could only ever get worse as the subject matter gets narrower.
I already participate in a cafe where threads are seperated out into 'on topic' 'off topic' 'boring' or 'crap' I make that seperation myself, by avoiding threads that I'm not interested in, I don't need to have others seperate things into little pigeon holes for me, or sweep a path through the 'dross' (subjective anyways) I can do it myself.
In general I've found that people that want to tighten up discussion areas, are normally advocating it so that their own narrow band of interests are met and not ,as is often cited "for the good of the place or others" it's hogwash and for the most part I can spot it,. no matter how well disguised this subtle attempt at influencing direction goes.
I believe I've been an active member long enough to gauge the place and to guage what works, or doesn't work for the posters and in that time I've not seen much of a difference in the wants of the cafe's participants. Yes there is a demand for on topic discussions, there's a demand for flirting, but theres just as bigger demand for inane drivel and bollox as well. If some of that inane drivel and bollox doesn't work and lets face it the best thermometer for that is wether folk participate or not, then it falls swiftly to the bottom of the heap........where's the problem.
I won't do it, only because I couldn't bear to face the word association thread and it's ilk again, but I bet if you go get a list of the top twenty threads that have proved successfull in terms of longevity and replies then by far the bigger proportion of them ,will be off topic and far removed from kats own utopia. I'm aware that when you don't narrow peoples choices of topic and push them down the road of staying on topic, then they will plump for taking part in easier, less demanding threads, but a bit like the old Sun newspaper, it's mighty popular despite it's aloof critics.
If I had my way then almost certainly I would want to pull and push in completely the opposite direction to Kat and yourself, because for me things like the GFZ and other threads that are almost exclusively flirtatious are as dull as dishwater with their little 'evil grin' emoticon popping up every where, how many times can you read......oooooh (evil grin)....mmmmmm(evil grin) or "pour me a glass of wine whilst I slip into the jacuzzi (will someone at least rip it out and chuck a spa pool in the fuckin place) before you throw your hands up and say "this has been done to death" but I havn't got my way, nor would I want it and niether am I conceited enough to believe that my own personnal preferences are the mutts nuts and everything else is wafty shite.
Yes the cafe is very diverse in the subjects that crop up and thank fuck for that, because an overdose of anything isn't good for you and in that I include bollox, crap, on topic, off topic and blah blahs. The place has always managed to sort itself out and its managed to sort out posters who don't really get it, so why does it need diluting and seperating out, or squeezing in a particular direction to suit someones specific wants and needs.....no leave the fucker alone and start accepting that we all have narrow bands of interests and that staying out of the ones that don't 'float yer boat' aint that hard.