Sexpert
well said clove xx
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Kate McCann to be charged???
Quote by Mallock2006
In that case how is the blood found in the hire car,hired some time after her dissapearence,explained
Please note it was her blood in the car, not her.
This may have happened in a number of ways including secondary transfer form another item. At this late date perhaps aided by water or solvent. The blood planted or leaking directly from Madeline.
Who else hired the car and when?
Travis
That was what I said wasnt it :dunno:I considered you post a question, not a statement, sorry.
Quote by Clove-hitch
As for maddies parents can u imagine how traumatic it must be for them if they are truly innocent of any crime here other than that of neglect
I'm sorry Clove but you say 'neglect' like it is nothing!!
Whether the McCanns had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance or it was the actions of a stranger, it will always always be because of the McCanns idiotic actions that their daughter went missing!!!! No judge & jury is required to know that they are guilty of that crime.
I know this does seem horrid but I'm not going to apologise for it ....but it should be traumatic for them....whatever trauma they are feeling pales in comparison to what trauma and terror a little 4 year old child has gone through!! My sympathy, prayers and thoughts lay with Madeleine and Madeleine alone.
Quote by Barneyandbetty
As for maddies parents can u imagine how traumatic it must be for them if they are truly innocent of any crime here other than that of neglect
I'm sorry Clove but you say 'neglect' like it is nothing!!
Whether the McCanns had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance or it was the actions of a stranger, it will always always be because of the McCanns idiotic actions that their daughter went missing!!!! No judge & jury is required to know that they are guilty of that crime.
I know this does seem horrid but I'm not going to apologise for it ....but it should be traumatic for them....whatever trauma they are feeling pales in comparison to what trauma and terror a little 4 year old child has gone through!! My sympathy, prayers and thoughts lay with Madeleine and Madeleine alone.
and could still be possibly going through!
Sexpert
Quote by Barneyandbetty
I'm sorry Clove but you say 'neglect' like it is nothing!!
Whether the McCanns had anything to do with Maddie's disappearance or it was the actions of a stranger, it will always always be because of the McCanns idiotic actions that their daughter went missing!!!! No judge & jury is required to know that they are guilty of that crime.
I know this does seem horrid but I'm not going to apologise for it ....but it should be traumatic for them....whatever trauma they are feeling pales in comparison to what trauma and terror a little 4 year old child has gone through!! My sympathy, prayers and thoughts lay with Madeleine and Madeleine alone.
Well said....my thoughts exactly.
I couldnt believe all the media gush at the time with the amount of sympathy people we're showing the McCann's. If, as they protest, they are innocent of any "wrong doing" with regards to her actual dissapearance, the blame still lies squarely at their feet and nobody elses and their actions are nothing short of pathetic and not the actions of sane parents IMHO.
Me and my wife have a daughter who is a week off her 4th birthday and i tried to imagine not so long back how she'd feel if she was snatched....i tried for a millisecond then it was too difficult to contemplate. One can only hope that poor Madeleine hasnt suffered :cry:
Well I think I’ll take a bow out of this witch-hunt, sorry I meant thread for the time being. What the parents did was stupid in my opinion but neglect is a very strong word, people are judging them on what they would have done.
Like pointed out before if they would have used the services of the hotel the staff would be doing the same, i.e. checking on the kids every so often. If these services are deemed as reasonable why is it so unreasonable for parents to do the same? So in essence what your saying is that anyone that goes on holiday and uses such services is guilty of neglect.
You'll also find that loads of families might do this sort of thing while on holiday, this has only come to our attention because of what happened. And perhaps with what’s happened it might deter them from doing so which is a good thing.
My opinion is they were darn right stupid, and to crucify someone for that its bordering on insanity, even more so that on a daily basis paedophiles in this country walk free from court every day.
If they where sitting on the patio outside the door when this happened people would still be screaming neglect, because they weren’t with their children 24/7 like we all are, yet find time to chat on here or do shows in chat rooms on cam. But thank good they weren’t members of a swinging site, that would finish them off.
What makes me even more annoyed is that this is no longer about a little missing girl, the interest is now on did they? Didn’t they? They done this, they done that, I wouldn’t have done that. The problem is people do DO different things or you wouldn’t be on this site reading this. After all what parents would be swingers. Its great to judge. You only have to look at the expectant mothers thread to see this.
Like pointed out before if they would have used the services of the hotel the staff would be doing the same, i.e. checking on the kids every so often. If these services are deemed as reasonable why is it so unreasonable for parents to do the same? So in essence what your saying is that anyone that goes on holiday and uses such services is guilty of neglect.
You'll also find that loads of families might do this sort of thing while on holiday, this has only come to our attention because of what happened. And perhaps with what’s happened it might deter them from doing so which is a good thing.
My opinion is they were darn right stupid, and to crucify someone for that its bordering on insanity, even more so that on a daily basis paedophiles in this country walk free from court every day.
If they where sitting on the patio outside the door when this happened people would still be screaming neglect, because they weren’t with their children 24/7 like we all are, yet find time to chat on here or do shows in chat rooms on cam. But thank good they weren’t members of a swinging site, that would finish them off.
What makes me even more annoyed is that this is no longer about a little missing girl, the interest is now on did they? Didn’t they? They done this, they done that, I wouldn’t have done that. The problem is people do DO different things or you wouldn’t be on this site reading this. After all what parents would be swingers. Its great to judge. You only have to look at the expectant mothers thread to see this.
Quote by solofun
Well I think I’ll take a bow out of this witch-hunt, sorry I meant thread for the time being. What the parents did was stupid in my opinion but neglect is a very strong word, people are judging them on what they would have done.
Like pointed out before if they would have used the services of the hotel the staff would be doing the same, i.e. checking on the kids every so often. If these services are deemed as reasonable why is it so unreasonable for parents to do the same? So in essence what your saying is that anyone that goes on holiday and uses such services is guilty of neglect.
You'll also find that loads of families might do this sort of thing while on holiday, this has only come to our attention because of what happened. And perhaps with what’s happened it might deter them from doing so which is a good thing.
My opinion is they were darn right stupid, and to crucify someone for that its bordering on insanity, even more so that on a daily basis paedophiles in this country walk free from court every day.
If they where sitting on the patio outside the door when this happened people would still be screaming neglect, because they weren’t with their children 24/7 like we all are, yet find time to chat on here or do shows in chat rooms on cam. But thank good they weren’t members of a swinging site, that would finish them off.
What makes me even more annoyed is that this is no longer about a little missing girl, the interest is now on did they? Didn’t they? They done this, they done that, I wouldn’t have done that. The problem is people do DO different things or you wouldn’t be on this site reading this. After all what parents would be swingers. Its great to judge. You only have to look at the expectant mothers thread to see this.
I think that I might love you a ickle teeny weeny bit.
splendid
Sexpert
Quote by solofun
Like pointed out before if they would have used the services of the hotel the staff would be doing the same, i.e. checking on the kids every so often. If these services are deemed as reasonable why is it so unreasonable for parents to do the same? So in essence what your saying is that anyone that goes on holiday and uses such services is guilty of neglect.
You'll also find that loads of families might do this sort of thing while on holiday,
We have never used any service like this and never would, even before this came to light with the disappearance my wife and I never even contemplated using the service.
We are of the opinion now, and always have been, that its the kids holiday too, and they go to bed when we go to bed.
Quote by solofun
.If they where sitting on the patio outside the door when this happened people would still be screaming neglect see this.
Actually if they had been sitting on the patio outside...it wouldn't have happened...it was the back door that was left unlocked and way the child was abducted!
Quote by Mr-Powers
.If they where sitting on the patio outside the door when this happened people would still be screaming neglect.
Actually if they had been sitting on the patio outside...it wouldn't have happened...it was the back door that was left unlocked and way the child was abducted!
My point was it doesn’t matter what they were doing people will make their own conclusions, like you’ve just shown for example.
You can also say that if they had used the hotel services it could still have happened, but you didn’t because that isn’t negative.
Please no more quotes, I’ve said my bit. I’ll pass judgement when all the facts are in front of me, but even then I’ll keep it to myself, My concern is for the little missing girl and not ifs and buts or lets blame the parents.
Quote by solofun
What the parents did was stupid in my opinion but neglect is a very strong word
Lets see...leaving 3 BABIES alone in a hotel room...out of your sight...in an unlocked apartment...in a foreign country (not that it matters which country it was!)
Yeah, that sounds like neglect to me...and that's being polite!!!
Sexpert
You took the words out of my mouth BarneyandBetty.
A parents primary responsibility is to protect and look after their children.
The McCann's have failed on both counts. Neglect is exactly whats occured here and nothing short.
A parents primary responsibility is to protect and look after their children.
The McCann's have failed on both counts. Neglect is exactly whats occured here and nothing short.
Quote by Barneyandbetty
What the parents did was stupid in my opinion but neglect is a very strong word
Lets see...leaving 3 BABIES alone in a hotel room...out of your sight...in an unlocked apartment...in a foreign country (not that it matters which country it was!)
Yeah, that sounds like neglect to me...and that's being polite!!!
It might well be to you, just like swinging to others is SICK
I wouldn't leave any children, but what im saying is that this is what these so called services on the resort do. So isn't also using these services neglect, My point being that if they had used these services people wouldn't be judging like they are yet the services do the same thing.
But like i said i'm not interested in arguing the rights and wrongs of it all, i'm more concered for the missing girl, i tend to think thats more important than pointing the finger at the parents, as if they aren't going through enough.
Sex God
Quote by solofun
What the parents did was stupid in my opinion but neglect is a very strong word
Lets see...leaving 3 BABIES alone in a hotel room...out of your sight...in an unlocked apartment...in a foreign country (not that it matters which country it was!)
Yeah, that sounds like neglect to me...and that's being polite!!!
It might well be to you, just like swinging to others is SICK
I wouldn't leave any children, but what im saying is that this is what these so called services on the resort do. So isn't also using these services neglect, My point being that if they had used these services people wouldn't be judging like they are yet the services do the same thing.
But like i said i'm not interested in arguing the rights and wrongs of it all, i'm more concered for the missing girl, i tend to think thats more important than pointing the finger at the parents, as if they aren't going through enough.
I understand your frustration with all of this because there's been so much coverage, analysing every detail to the enth degree. However I suspect some of the questioning is not just accusative ramblings but an attempt to re-evaluate our own moral positions.
The questioning is valid because we need to understand and reaffirm our own moral views, but also to better comprehend what appears to be a complicated situation, one that anyone of us could so easily find ourselves in.
Some elements of the case seem so convoluted to us that the ability to disentangle the various 'facts' is crucial to the way we see the rest of the world. So the questioning is also partly a way of trying to return the world to the safe position that existed before the horror. It's a way of renormalising an environment when something in it seems to have changed drastically.
So it has value, as long as libelous or controversial comments are not openly made, and any comments are based on information in the public domain.
Did I just write this! My god how pretentious is that?
Sexpert
i have watched three different news chanels today , all three featuring the pictures of the parents of maddy, and oh how all 3 differed with the allegtions they all three believe to be true. as a parent i have strong views on what i feel about this case, feel being the operative word because facts arent available to make concrete judgements. until this awful situation becomes unravelled and total truth is told we can all only summize as to what has happened. sometimes a little knowledge is worse than having the whole facts, because a little knowledge of a situation only makes us fill the gaps in with what our imaginations let us. my heart goes out to maddy , i pray she is still alive and will be found soon, and hope that whatever the outcome of this case that we all take to heart some valuable lessons from it.
Sex God
Award-winning childcare
The Ocean Club offers a unique 'dine out' service. Simply get your little ones ready for bed and drop them off at our kids club. We'll watch over them whilst you go out and enjoy yourselves and you can pick them up on your way home.
This is the childcare available at the particular place they stayed. This is fact.
The Ocean Club offers a unique 'dine out' service. Simply get your little ones ready for bed and drop them off at our kids club. We'll watch over them whilst you go out and enjoy yourselves and you can pick them up on your way home.
This is the childcare available at the particular place they stayed. This is fact.
Sex God
Quote by firelizard
Award-winning childcare
The Ocean Club offers a unique 'dine out' service. Simply get your little ones ready for bed and drop them off at our kids club. We'll watch over them whilst you go out and enjoy yourselves and you can pick them up on your way home.
This is the childcare available at the particular place they stayed. This is fact.
So it's not just people checking rooms every once in a while then?
Quote by solofun
You'll also find that loads of families might do this sort of thing while on holiday, this has only come to our attention because of what happened. And perhaps with what’s happened it might deter them from doing so which is a good thing.
I've snipped this bit out of your post Solofun because I do think that it's a very valid point - it might make people think twice. We're of the same opinion as some others though, in that our holidays have been the kids' holidays too and they stay with us.
Quote by bbw_lover
So it has value, as long as libelous or controversial comments are not openly made, and any comments are based on information in the public domain.
:thumbup: we all have opinions, but we should be very careful. I think the thing we all have in common though, is concern for a missing four-year old.
I admit to being stunned that two educated people made the decision they did. However, (presuming they are innocent) they have paid a very high price.
We went to Greece this year with 17, 12, and 7 year old daughters. Mr W had been to the apartments before. We chose to go back there because the layout gave us a chance for some "adult" time after the kids had gone to bed. We specifically requested apartments that meant we could be sitting at the bar without putting the kids at any risk.
We would all go out to eat, not returning until about 11pm, the kids would crash out exhausted, and we would take up residence in the bar. The beauty of it was we we're literally within talking distance, and had a completely clear view of the only door to the apartment the kids were in.
Let's hope that this does raise awareness that bad things can happen on holiday too.
We went to Greece this year with 17, 12, and 7 year old daughters. Mr W had been to the apartments before. We chose to go back there because the layout gave us a chance for some "adult" time after the kids had gone to bed. We specifically requested apartments that meant we could be sitting at the bar without putting the kids at any risk.
We would all go out to eat, not returning until about 11pm, the kids would crash out exhausted, and we would take up residence in the bar. The beauty of it was we we're literally within talking distance, and had a completely clear view of the only door to the apartment the kids were in.
Let's hope that this does raise awareness that bad things can happen on holiday too.
As i said in my previous post lets concentrate on protecting our children where we can. I wasnt trivialising the fact that they left their children and IF they had no hand in this do you think any of us can condem them more than they will themselves. By the grace of god I hope this child is safe somewhere being cared for by someperson desperate enough to take a child and care for it as their own. It may seem sick to say and I know some of u will perhaps take my words out of context but mental illness is a real issue for some ppl and can be dealt with in my eyes that scenario is better than the alternative.
Sex God
Quote by firelizard
Award-winning childcare
The Ocean Club offers a unique 'dine out' service. Simply get your little ones ready for bed and drop them off at our kids club. We'll watch over them whilst you go out and enjoy yourselves and you can pick them up on your way home.
This is the childcare available at the particular place they stayed. This is fact.
Thanks Fire, I kept meaning to go and check what the arrangements are at the club, and it seems what I've come across is different to what was offered there. What a shame that they didn't take up the use of this service that night.
Its more than likely that other parets had left their kids in similar circumstances in the same holiday resort. Usually a feeling of safety and security gets about and it becomes acceptable to do something like this.
We all on occasion have to do something and take a calculated risk to momentarily leave our kids. Of course this kind of decision does not include the likelihood of a psycho abductor. But most parents have and will do it at some point.
Focussing now on the parents as suspects is just a decision of; as and when it had to be done. It was inevitable they would be questioned as suspects.
Hopefully they will survive this and be cleared. Then what? Do they go back to Portugal and maintain their vigil? Or set up headquarters back in the UK?
And will all this still be going on years later? They will need to think about calling it quits at some point. They won't personally, because of their loss, but they will need to stop the publicity etc at some point.
We all on occasion have to do something and take a calculated risk to momentarily leave our kids. Of course this kind of decision does not include the likelihood of a psycho abductor. But most parents have and will do it at some point.
Focussing now on the parents as suspects is just a decision of; as and when it had to be done. It was inevitable they would be questioned as suspects.
Hopefully they will survive this and be cleared. Then what? Do they go back to Portugal and maintain their vigil? Or set up headquarters back in the UK?
And will all this still be going on years later? They will need to think about calling it quits at some point. They won't personally, because of their loss, but they will need to stop the publicity etc at some point.
Sex God
the people who've suggested the McCanns are murderers, and the people who've said they can't sit on a jury on this? glad they ain't sitting on a jury i'm facing, quite frankly? 
i'd hope proper evidence comes into it at some point, and i'm judged on yer actual facts? courts don't need emotional responses . . . they need rational ones? thank God they'll be dismissed as a Juror before a trial ever comes to court, with attitudes like that? :shakeshead:
all anyone so far has to go on is second-hand media lies. there is no evidence whatsoever so far, cos the police can't release that evidence, yet the police are now having to counter media lies.
:? the blood has now become decomposed unidentifiable DNA, allegedly, that has now become a few hair samples, yadda yadda ya? the people who've swallowed media lies, and repeated them, ought to be ashamed of themselves. to sit in judgement of a couple who's 3 year old child might well have been and murdered months ago? where do people like that get off? 
:? it disgusts me!
it's oh so easy to sit in judgement when you ain't in possession of all the facts, ain't it? it's the proverbial piece of yellow streaky stuff? ? noone's in posession of any facts whatsoever, far as i can see, but it's oh so easy to condemn? it's Sun reader shite!
now about this blood / DNA in the back of the car the McCann's are still driving . . . in England . . . where they've been allowed to return to, despite the fact they're allegedly 'suspects'? :? that's all complete bollox now innit, apparently? might have been splashed all over the Sunday papers, but apparently, it is indeed complete fucking shite, and the Portuguese coppers are backpedalling like hell? ! :roll:
I have no sympathy for the McCann's, cos they should have been cleverer than that, despite the holiday venue's promises to look after their kid while they wined and dined. God forbid anyone actually falls for holiday crap like that, but some of the recent assertions in the media, and on this thread, make my blood boil.
n x x x ;)
i'd hope proper evidence comes into it at some point, and i'm judged on yer actual facts? courts don't need emotional responses . . . they need rational ones? thank God they'll be dismissed as a Juror before a trial ever comes to court, with attitudes like that? :shakeshead:all anyone so far has to go on is second-hand media lies. there is no evidence whatsoever so far, cos the police can't release that evidence, yet the police are now having to counter media lies.
:? the blood has now become decomposed unidentifiable DNA, allegedly, that has now become a few hair samples, yadda yadda ya? the people who've swallowed media lies, and repeated them, ought to be ashamed of themselves. to sit in judgement of a couple who's 3 year old child might well have been and murdered months ago? where do people like that get off? :? it disgusts me! it's oh so easy to sit in judgement when you ain't in possession of all the facts, ain't it? it's the proverbial piece of yellow streaky stuff? ? noone's in posession of any facts whatsoever, far as i can see, but it's oh so easy to condemn? it's Sun reader shite!
now about this blood / DNA in the back of the car the McCann's are still driving . . . in England . . . where they've been allowed to return to, despite the fact they're allegedly 'suspects'? :? that's all complete bollox now innit, apparently? might have been splashed all over the Sunday papers, but apparently, it is indeed complete fucking shite, and the Portuguese coppers are backpedalling like hell? ! :roll:
I have no sympathy for the McCann's, cos they should have been cleverer than that, despite the holiday venue's promises to look after their kid while they wined and dined. God forbid anyone actually falls for holiday crap like that, but some of the recent assertions in the media, and on this thread, make my blood boil.
n x x x ;)
neil
The sad thing is that we all watch and in some way believe the media without knowing all the facts. I dont want to know any more because at the end of the day a child is missing and its not going to be a good outcome whoever did it. I feel the whole of this summer has had me at one level watching this and I dont want to any more. Its become a circus.
The sad thing is that we all watch and in some way believe the media without knowing all the facts. I dont want to know any more because at the end of the day a child is missing and its not going to be a good outcome whoever did it. I feel the whole of this summer has had me at one level watching this and I dont want to any more. Its become a circus.
Sex God
The sad thing is that we all watch and in some way believe the media without knowing all the facts.
not quite. the only things i believe in the media are the things that tell me i should be VERY careful what i believe, and repeat? not quite the same thing?
i well understand the irony implicit in refuting media assertions with alternative media assertions? the difference is, i don't assert those assertions as fact, because i know that they would be slanderous, libellous, baseless, absolutely without foundation? ;) quite frankly, the suggestion that the McCanns were in any way involved in their daughter's death, when noone even knows if she's dead or not, is just bloody nasty!
i know i know nowt. all this 'well, it all looks a bit dodgy to me' stuff is a bit dubious, IMO?
n x x x ;)
Two little girls where one is missing and one is dead. One set of parents are being hounded by armchair sleuths and the tabloids. The other girls Gran has just been found not guilty of neglect for bringing a dangerous dog into the house where it then attacked the girl and killed her.
When driving down the road and you lose your concentration a bit and........feck me that was close. Been there? With the kids in the back?
Holding onto kids hands and they pull out of your grip and run towards the road and you just manage to grab them before the big truck flattens then. Been there?
Two examples where, with hindsight, you could say it was neglect of the parents. We all do things that if it wasn't for the grace of God, Allah, Buddah, etc then a dead or injured child would have occurred.
Was this neglect? They were more than likely doing the same thing that lots of other parents were doing on that holiday site or other sites. Nothing went wrong then and they believed nothing would again.
Who do I blame? The person who took her......whoever it may be.
Dave_Notts
When driving down the road and you lose your concentration a bit and........feck me that was close. Been there? With the kids in the back?
Holding onto kids hands and they pull out of your grip and run towards the road and you just manage to grab them before the big truck flattens then. Been there?
Two examples where, with hindsight, you could say it was neglect of the parents. We all do things that if it wasn't for the grace of God, Allah, Buddah, etc then a dead or injured child would have occurred.
Was this neglect? They were more than likely doing the same thing that lots of other parents were doing on that holiday site or other sites. Nothing went wrong then and they believed nothing would again.
Who do I blame? The person who took her......whoever it may be.
Dave_Notts
