So now the local elections are out of the way,did Labour get a bloody nose? Or is it as they say " its mid term blues "?
I think Labour have had their day. The worst local election results in 40 years suggest that.
Are other members of the same opinion? Or do you think it has no relevance towards a general election result? Would you still vote labour in the election or have you changed your views? Or have you been Tory and decided to change your vote/ Have the green party persuaded you to change to them.
We also await the results of the Mayor result, will it swing towards Boris.....will wait and see.
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Labour get a bloody nose
Sex God
I think New Labour is the worst thing that's happened to politics in recent times. What we now have are two Conservative parties, one that has been around for some time and the other which was a socialist party. The idea that people can make a protest vote by voting Conservative is a nonsense because you're really voting for exactly the same thing. The only difference is the people contained within each group, but that's like listening to a Yes album and arguing over which group lineup was best.
Thanks to New Labour the two parties have become indistinguishable and therefore the only way to differentiate the two is to choose the one that has more showbiz.
Thanks to New Labour the two parties have become indistinguishable and therefore the only way to differentiate the two is to choose the one that has more showbiz.
Sex God
labour can get kinda bloody 
:lol:
oh your talking politics
:lol: oh your talking politics
Sex God
Quote by X_fanny_x
labour can get kinda bloody
oh your talking politics
Now you're being frivolous.
:smackbottom: :smackbottom: 
:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: Not wanting to jump to their defence but if you look over the past decade New Labour has brought about so many changes for the better especially with regard to children, this is a point worth remembering.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
Quote by jaymar
Not wanting to jump to their defence but if you look over the past decade New Labour has brought about so many changes for the better especially with regard to children, this is a point worth remembering.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
Education education education was one of the first soundbites we got when Blair was elected to power
And for the first time in 21 years we are seeing teachers striking, we are seeing a number of people saying education standards (and by that I mean all aspects, the curriculum, the facilities, teacher welfare etc) in decline
Yes, labour has given us tax credits, yes they have given more to affordable nursery care, but what good is it when that same parent is paying more in fuel to get to that nursery, then going on to do their shopping, when the cost of shopping has gone up too
Labour has given with one hand, and taken away with the other, there is a bigger picture to be looked at, and there is definitely no bandwagon in that
Sex God
Quote by essex34m
Education education education was one of the first soundbites we got when Blair was elected to power
And for the first time in 21 years we are seeing teachers striking, we are seeing a number of people saying education standards (and by that I mean all aspects, the curriculum, the facilities, teacher welfare etc) in decline
Yes, labour has given us tax credits, yes they have given more to affordable nursery care, but what good is it when that same parent is paying more in fuel to get to that nursery, then going on to do their shopping, when the cost of shopping has gone up too
Labour has given with one hand, and taken away with the other, there is a bigger picture to be looked at, and there is definitely no bandwagon in that
Labour have lost a lot of ground in what was once staunch Labour ground (West Midlands) so the tide is turning....
I think a lot of people have voted on the National issues more so than local and that is why Gordon Brown is a little more than worried..
Orgasminator
Sorry Mar 
but on this i have to disagree yes they gave us tax credits but they f**ked that up so badly i will not tell you how much they are trying to get back from me and ex because they cant organise a piss up in a brewery.
never been a labour supporter always a conservative but as has been said i dont trust any politician any more they are only in it to fill their pockets with money and dont believe helping fun the country is their first thought.
but on this i have to disagree yes they gave us tax credits but they f**ked that up so badly i will not tell you how much they are trying to get back from me and ex because they cant organise a piss up in a brewery.never been a labour supporter always a conservative but as has been said i dont trust any politician any more they are only in it to fill their pockets with money and dont believe helping fun the country is their first thought.
Quote by WhipsnspursTake heart, there are so many others like you who feel the same way. Come the revolution! It was so interesting to read the other day that the Eastern Europeans are now leaving the Country in droves; England is not now the place of Milk and Honey that it was.. in fact, England is broke!
i think they are all as bad as each other. i'm sick to death of being told that we have to pay more tax coz the nhs needs it and such crap.
spurs is in a job where he needs alot of tools. has his company paid for any of them? NO. has he had any money from the goverment to pay for them? NO and yet the bloody polish and whoever get £4000 a time spent on snap on tools.
when we got tax credits we could claim a diesel allowence, so we thought. if our home was so far away from his work place we could get help towards costs. we live about 15 miles from where he works. but not according to the goverment. and why? well coz it's measured as the crow flies so we are within the limits! AS THE CROW FLIES FFS! now while spurs is a great driver even he can't encourage our car that much that the bloody thing can fly! of all the stupidity.
now when they stop giveing away £4000 to send people back to their own countries, stop paying housing to imigrants who don't get jobs while our own are homeless, stop paying out child benefit to kids who don't even live in this country and so on and so on, i might just start to take them seriously.
you can't walk anywhere in doncaster without hearing god knows how many different languages and most of them can't even be bothered to learn the language of the country they are sponging off. more and more people are voting for the national party.
i'm not racist in any way. i just have very strong feelings about people who come here to take advantage of those of us who work our ass's off for a system that is not getting the money that we put in.
Sex God
Hehe - I love all this 'analysis'.
Labour were unelectable under Michael Foot - too left wing.
The Conservatives were unelectable under William Hague - too right wing (Maggie's legacy methinks).
So it's the battle fer the middle ground then is it?
So they stand in the middle and then try and embrace as many from their respective sides of the political spectrum to make the difference in the polls.
Truth is it's about power and if you go to the middle and cynically work ya way from ther - then so be it.
This country has shifted right since the 60s though - man in the street got pissed off with the union mentality.
Hey ho - here we go 'round the roundabout.......
.
Labour were unelectable under Michael Foot - too left wing.
The Conservatives were unelectable under William Hague - too right wing (Maggie's legacy methinks).
So it's the battle fer the middle ground then is it?
So they stand in the middle and then try and embrace as many from their respective sides of the political spectrum to make the difference in the polls.
Truth is it's about power and if you go to the middle and cynically work ya way from ther - then so be it.
This country has shifted right since the 60s though - man in the street got pissed off with the union mentality.
Hey ho - here we go 'round the roundabout.......
.
Quote by jaymar
Not wanting to jump to their defence but if you look over the past decade New Labour has brought about so many changes for the better especially with regard to children, this is a point worth remembering.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
Not sure I agree with you on totally on this one Mar xxx
Ive been involved in Every Child Matters (was involved in the consultation at the begining and during implementation of it) on the ground, its only what every *good* organisation should have been doing in the first place! Too many workers/organisations busy empire building and fighting for the same pot of funding (Im talking voluntary sector here) who were far too busy doing that than to implement good practice.
Sure Start - its was laughable on the ground when that first started, as was connexions! Some still is....(some good stuff come through thank goodness).
What all three of those did in one Labour ran communtiy I worked in was close down organisations, take facilities away, make it harder for existing organisations to get funding, created even more flipping paperwork
:? :?, more tick boxes (as if we didnt have enough already)lose loads of absolutely fantastic ground workers.... talk about a mass exodus over the first three years +!! All that had impact on the local ecomony, shops and cafe's closed down cos the staff had left... Staff were going off sick left right and centre through stress, burn out or pure boredom because these organisations were created overnight and had no policies. Redundancys, I had to make 9 staff redundant, then myself... not the most pleasant experience of my life!
All because of agenda's of officers and local councillors at local authority level who wanted to be in power and in control....and fastrack through policies ill thoughtout at a local level.
On a positive note, some good work was and is still being done but when your working at management level trying to deliver a service to the highest standards and then get all this thrown at ya practically all at the same time its enough to do the sanest of peoples heads in!! I couldnt do the job I was paid to do anymore, it became paperwork and even more report writing and inbetween trying to allay staff and young peoples fears of what the future held for them.
It was all rushed in too close together... should have been staggered or a more competent worker managing it all...
This particular high profile community is now a mess (IMO).... another year or so and someone, somewhere will reinvent the wheel again and start all the good work that was being done a few years ago!
I can only speak for where I live and worked, maybe all this happened because it was failing authority and they tried to rush it without doing the ground work properly.
I may sound quite negative and angry (I was) it was an awful time and a dreadful experience I wouldnt wish on any worker. I like to think I stand up to be counted and speak up for those I was supposed to...I did and it took its toll on my health, others and impacted on the local community.
What does this community have left?? A number of organisations that Every Child Matters and the rest where supposed to bring up to standard and havent!!!!! The ones that already delivered bad practice with poorly trained or untrained staff!!
I shall probably never ever work again in my sector that I loved and fought for so passionately...along with a good few others!
I wont say ECM is totally responsible but it should have brought a community and the workforce within it together for the common good, instead it created a huge divide...and left them with not a lot (in some peoples eyes).
Hopefully other areas of the uk didnt have this experience....
Bugga sorry Ive right waffled :? :? :? :?
Up the Green Party!!!
:) Whoever they maybe! 
Sex God
Quote by kentswingers777
:gagged:
GNV.........dont be shy now.
This is my thread and would like your opinion.Every little helps. :lol:
They will only tell us all how good France is ......
Quote by essex34m
Not wanting to jump to their defence but if you look over the past decade New Labour has brought about so many changes for the better especially with regard to children, this is a point worth remembering.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
Education education education was one of the first soundbites we got when Blair was elected to power
And for the first time in 21 years we are seeing teachers striking, we are seeing a number of people saying education standards (and by that I mean all aspects, the curriculum, the facilities, teacher welfare etc) in decline
Yes, labour has given us tax credits, yes they have given more to affordable nursery care, but what good is it when that same parent is paying more in fuel to get to that nursery, then going on to do their shopping, when the cost of shopping has gone up too
Labour has given with one hand, and taken away with the other, there is a bigger picture to be looked at, and there is definitely no bandwagon in that
But, can you answer my question..? do you think Labour's policy on Every Child Matters, and subsequent children centres is the best thing that has ever happened??
For the record I'm not actually sticking up for Labour, I'm just identifying the good bits they've actually done.
I don't mean to disagree with you Essex, but children's centres do so much, they help children from families where domestic violence is involved, children who's parents do not know how to show their love, children who have no parents.
Is that not a good thing? that's all I'm saying. As for education, well, I'm doing a degree which is funded thankfully, or I wouldn't be able to do it. Who's to thank for my funding?
Quote by Ukwineman
Sorry Mar
never been a labour supporter always a conservative but as has been said i dont trust any politician any more they are only in it to fill their pockets with money and dont believe helping fun the country is their first thought.
Listen, I'M NOT STICKING UP FOR LABOUR!
Please everyone re read my first post. I'm saying we're quick to point out the bad points but we should ALSO remember the good points. LABOUR'S policies on children has to be the best yet. I'm actually more Liberal if anyone wants to know!
I'd probably be saying the same about Conservatives also.. Thatchers day's had their good points as well as bad. She gave us affordable homes to own, but she gave us some shit along with it.
I do agree that Brown is prob. shiting himself right now
That's all really.
Quote by anais
Not wanting to jump to their defence but if you look over the past decade New Labour has brought about so many changes for the better especially with regard to children, this is a point worth remembering.
The implementation of working tax credit, family tax credit, surestarts and affordable nursary care for parents who need to access them.
Every Child Matters is one of the most successful policies in years.
Our children are our future, would anyone care to disagree with me that Labour has invested a lot into the safety of our children?
I'm not saying Labour are without faults, Brown is a total knacker in my opinion, but we're quick to jump onm the wagon for bad point, it's a shame we miss the good points along the way.
Not sure I agree with you on totally on this one Mar xxx
Ive been involved in Every Child Matters (was involved in the consultation at the begining and during implementation of it) on the ground, its only what every *good* organisation should have been doing in the first place! Too many workers/organisations busy empire building and fighting for the same pot of funding (Im talking voluntary sector here) who were far too busy doing that than to implement good practice.
Sure Start - its was laughable on the ground when that first started, as was connexions! Some still is....(some good stuff come through thank goodness).
What all three of those did in one Labour ran communtiy I worked in was close down organisations, take facilities away, make it harder for existing organisations to get funding, created even more flipping paperwork
:? :?, more tick boxes (as if we didnt have enough already)lose loads of absolutely fantastic ground workers.... talk about a mass exodus over the first three years +!! All that had impact on the local ecomony, shops and cafe's closed down cos the staff had left... Staff were going off sick left right and centre through stress, burn out or pure boredom because these organisations were created overnight and had no policies. Redundancys, I had to make 9 staff redundant, then myself... not the most pleasant experience of my life!
All because of agenda's of officers and local councillors at local authority level who wanted to be in power and in control....and fastrack through policies ill thoughtout at a local level.
On a positive note, some good work was and is still being done but when your working at management level trying to deliver a service to the highest standards and then get all this thrown at ya practically all at the same time its enough to do the sanest of peoples heads in!! I couldnt do the job I was paid to do anymore, it became paperwork and even more report writing and inbetween trying to allay staff and young peoples fears of what the future held for them.
It was all rushed in too close together... should have been staggered or a more competent worker managing it all...
This particular high profile community is now a mess (IMO).... another year or so and someone, somewhere will reinvent the wheel again and start all the good work that was being done a few years ago!
I can only speak for where I live and worked, maybe all this happened because it was failing authority and they tried to rush it without doing the ground work properly.
I may sound quite negative and angry (I was) it was an awful time and a dreadful experience I wouldnt wish on any worker. I like to think I stand up to be counted and speak up for those I was supposed to...I did and it took its toll on my health, others and impacted on the local community.
What does this community have left?? A number of organisations that Every Child Matters and the rest where supposed to bring up to standard and havent!!!!! The ones that already delivered bad practice with poorly trained or untrained staff!!
I shall probably never ever work again in my sector that I loved and fought for so passionately...along with a good few others!
I wont say ECM is totally responsible but it should have brought a community and the workforce within it together for the common good, instead it created a huge divide...and left them with not a lot (in some peoples eyes).
Hopefully other areas of the uk didnt have this experience....
Bugga sorry Ive right waffled :? :? :? :?
Up the Green Party!!!
:) Whoever they maybe!You're not waffling
I don't disagree with you on most points. I just think ECM and also Every Youth Matter are very important. Not only that but also National Framework for Older People and Valuing People.... all major major policies that have brought about MAJOR changes to peoples lives.
I'm not daft, I've only studied the above for 2 years and I've learnt enough to see there are still major improvements to be made, but we've come a long way that's for sure esp. since the 80's.
Maybe you're right, Green is the way to go.. who knows?
Quote by jaymar
You're not waffling
I don't disagree with you on most points. I just think ECM and also Every Youth Matter are very important. Not only that but also National Framework for Older People and Valuing People.... all major major policies that have brought about MAJOR changes to peoples lives.
I'm not daft, I've only studied the above for 2 years and I've learnt enough to see there are still major improvements to be made, but we've come a long way that's for sure esp. since the 80's.
Maybe you're right, Green is the way to go.. who knows?
Heck Mar :shock: dont even get me going on Every Youth Matters :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Im feeling stressed just thinking about it
:? :lol: Yes, we have come a long way I do agree, I remember when I first started out an some of the things I wittnessed by the *Old School* workers :? They wouldnt survive in todays work climate, they struggled in later years and eventally had to bow out!
We all want a better way forward for everyone, thing I find hard is its always underfunded or not supported well enough to introduce new things... then you end up struggling to do it all and the work your paid to do ends up suffering. Your pulled in all directions, your service users, management committees, government and your values and ethos as a worker!
I was joking about the green party hehe but our candidates arent too bad so far for politicans :lol: Ones a bit alright :wink:
Your course sounds interesting Mar...good luck with it
:) :) Let's see now.
The minimum wage
Removal of minimum wage
Child tax credits
Child tax credits
All the other benefits to parents and children
Age discrimination law
I could go on, and on, and on, and on: .........
Now London has Boris...well, with new 5-year contracts awarded to (is it IBM) for the CC I don't think that's going to change....the cancellation costs are going to be enormous.
The LEZ: that is going to stay. The cameras erevywhere: staying: crime reduction.
Bendy buses: probably staying.
All-in-all, another protest vote.
Will it make any difference ?
Not much.
Tax on fuel reduced with conservatives ?
I don't think so.
Working tax credits increased ?
I think not.
No tax for the low paid ?
Another not-going-to-happen thing.
More employment under conservatives ?
Yes, they are a proven good thing for employers, not so employees though. And don't forget who sent all those jobs abroad to be done by 21st century slave labour.
Swings and roundabouts darlings, winners and losers all around.
The only common ground ?
If you have little, you'll get less.
Oh, Greens ?
No cars.
Houses without roads.
A bus on every corner. And still not one when you need it.
Politics. Sucks.
The minimum wage
Removal of minimum wage
Child tax credits
Child tax credits
All the other benefits to parents and children
Age discrimination law
I could go on, and on, and on, and on: .........
Now London has Boris...well, with new 5-year contracts awarded to (is it IBM) for the CC I don't think that's going to change....the cancellation costs are going to be enormous.
The LEZ: that is going to stay. The cameras erevywhere: staying: crime reduction.
Bendy buses: probably staying.
All-in-all, another protest vote.
Will it make any difference ?
Not much.
Tax on fuel reduced with conservatives ?
I don't think so.
Working tax credits increased ?
I think not.
No tax for the low paid ?
Another not-going-to-happen thing.
More employment under conservatives ?
Yes, they are a proven good thing for employers, not so employees though. And don't forget who sent all those jobs abroad to be done by 21st century slave labour.
Swings and roundabouts darlings, winners and losers all around.
The only common ground ?
If you have little, you'll get less.
Oh, Greens ?
No cars.
Houses without roads.
A bus on every corner. And still not one when you need it.
Politics. Sucks.
So, Commissar Gordy says that Labour will have to listen and lead after his massive defeat at the hands of the voting public (shame it wasn't the elections for Westminster!).
Shame he didn't practice what he preached!
The lowest rate of tax was taken away from the people who need it most. His own MP's were outraged at this abominable move. The Chancellor then made some halfwitted gesture to increase means tested benefits knowing full well that most working people are too proud to go along that route so the sheep made loud baaaahing noises and then toed the party line. Perhaps that is what Gordy meant; he'll listen (but not do anything) and will lead (his party back to oblivion)!
Bliar knew what was coming for sure, that's why he escaped when he could, leaving Gordy with the poison chalice and to mop up his mess.
Only one more election to go through now until the world can breathe again.. Bush's removal from the oval office (but that's another thread )
Shame he didn't practice what he preached!
The lowest rate of tax was taken away from the people who need it most. His own MP's were outraged at this abominable move. The Chancellor then made some halfwitted gesture to increase means tested benefits knowing full well that most working people are too proud to go along that route so the sheep made loud baaaahing noises and then toed the party line. Perhaps that is what Gordy meant; he'll listen (but not do anything) and will lead (his party back to oblivion)!
Bliar knew what was coming for sure, that's why he escaped when he could, leaving Gordy with the poison chalice and to mop up his mess.
Only one more election to go through now until the world can breathe again.. Bush's removal from the oval office (but that's another thread
) Quote by anais
You're not waffling
I don't disagree with you on most points. I just think ECM and also Every Youth Matter are very important. Not only that but also National Framework for Older People and Valuing People.... all major major policies that have brought about MAJOR changes to peoples lives.
I'm not daft, I've only studied the above for 2 years and I've learnt enough to see there are still major improvements to be made, but we've come a long way that's for sure esp. since the 80's.
Maybe you're right, Green is the way to go.. who knows?
Heck Mar :shock: dont even get me going on Every Youth Matters :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: Im feeling stressed just thinking about it
:? :lol: Yes, we have come a long way I do agree, I remember when I first started out an some of the things I wittnessed by the *Old School* workers :? They wouldnt survive in todays work climate, they struggled in later years and eventally had to bow out!
We all want a better way forward for everyone, thing I find hard is its always underfunded or not supported well enough to introduce new things... then you end up struggling to do it all and the work your paid to do ends up suffering. Your pulled in all directions, your service users, management committees, government and your values and ethos as a worker!
I was joking about the green party hehe but our candidates arent too bad so far for politicans :lol: Ones a bit alright :wink:
Your course sounds interesting Mar...good luck with it
:) :)Thanks A, it is
I was joking about the Green party also, could you imagine the lifestyle? appararently even our wonderfully healthy water from plastic water bottles are bad for the environment! I thought plastic was recycable, how naive am I! :shock: and sorry but I couldn't be saving my own poo for anything! :lol:
Quote by JTS
Let's see now.
The minimum wage
Removal of minimum wage
Child tax credits
Child tax credits
All the other benefits to parents and children
Age discrimination law
I could go on, and on, and on, and on: .........
Now London has Boris...well, with new 5-year contracts awarded to (is it IBM) for the CC I don't think that's going to change....the cancellation costs are going to be enormous.
The LEZ: that is going to stay. The cameras erevywhere: staying: crime reduction.
Bendy buses: probably staying.
All-in-all, another protest vote.
Will it make any difference ?
Not much.
Tax on fuel reduced with conservatives ?
I don't think so.
Working tax credits increased ?
I think not.
No tax for the low paid ?
Another not-going-to-happen thing.
More employment under conservatives ?
Yes, they are a proven good thing for employers, not so employees though. And don't forget who sent all those jobs abroad to be done by 21st century slave labour.
Swings and roundabouts darlings, winners and losers all around.
The only common ground ?
If you have little, you'll get less.
Oh, Greens ?
No cars.
Houses without roads.
A bus on every corner. And still not one when you need Sucks.
Quote by jaymar
Sorry Mar
never been a labour supporter always a conservative but as has been said i dont trust any politician any more they are only in it to fill their pockets with money and dont believe helping fun the country is their first thought.
Listen, I'M NOT STICKING UP FOR LABOUR!
Please everyone re read my first post. I'm saying we're quick to point out the bad points but we should ALSO remember the good points. LABOUR'S policies on children has to be the best yet. I'm actually more Liberal if anyone wants to know!
I'd probably be saying the same about Conservatives also.. Thatchers day's had their good points as well as bad. She gave us affordable homes to own, but she gave us some shit along with it.
I do agree that Brown is prob. shiting himself right now
That's all really.
Bottom line Jaymar is it would be impossible for a Government to be bad at everything, they all have good and bad. But I would think after all the years Labour have been in power, that they would have some good somewhere.
All I know is what I have in my pocket which is a lot less than 12 months ago, even AFTER a pay rise. That is what matters to most people, the ammount they have to spend. Forget most of the other rubbish, the pound in your pocket is what counts, and over the last 12 months most people will be worse off, and that is where Labour will lose votes big time.
I am glad Boris got in as I think London needs a fresh outlook on things, and hope Livingstone gets dumped out of politics, as I just do not like the man at all.
Brown has 2 years left to halt the slide of his party. Can he do it? He will no doubt offer the voter some sweetners and false promises...remember the referendum vote folks? He renaged on that one big time as most do not want it. He knows that too which is why we will not get a vote. They are mostly all the same...promise one thing, and then not deliver. I just think Labour have become stale and that is when change is needed, and the Tories seem at the moment to be " fit for purpose ".
