My thoughts on social gatherings.......

9 Apr 2005

I have been shocked - yes shocked - by some of the stories that are coming out on this thread. What some people are describing is sexual assault (that is Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 if anyone is dull enough to want to go and look it up). As gem just said, it is not the organisers fault if people misbehave in this way. I'm sure no-one would blame you Clare and Steve for the tosser(s) who behaved in a CRIMINAL manner at the last Notts munch mad

. However, it is simply not good enough to say that people should be able to deal with this sort of shit.... whether they can physically stop it, push people off, or whatever, the point is that they shouldn't even have to contemplate being in a situation like this! Munches are meant to be FUN, spending the night fending off randy shit heads is NOT fun :x
Personally speaking, I have had no problems with gropers or unwanted snoggers at munches. If someone did try it on, I'd deck them. Sorry, I know some people don't like violence, but I truly would just do it, sod the consequences. I've been banned from one club for dealing with a tosser, so sod it, I don't care - I'd do it again and take the rap! It REALLY fucks me off when people (whether at munches, parties, or clubs) think that cos it is a room full of swingers that they can behave in a way that is simply not appropriate and as I said above, in a CRIMINAL manner! Since when did the law of the land not apply when the word SWINGER comes into the equation???? evil

I'm not suprised people are saying that they are being put off by what they are hearing about munches. I would be put off too if I was a newbie reading this thread! But I think this thread is timely and it is right that this is now coming out into the open rather than people keeping it to themselves or talking behind the scenes, thinking that they should not make it public.
I do not have a problem with people snogging at munches, I do not have a problem with flirting, and I do not have a problem with people dancing sexily, or behaving in an extrovert manner. However, when people think that they can simply join in with anything of this nature JUST cos it is a room full of people from a swingers site, they think again - it is WRONG! In real life, I am actually a quiet fairly reserved person (stop laughing at the back smile

). I do not want to be involved in the more extrovert things that have happened at munches, yet as long as people don't try to pressure me into anything I don't want to do, that is fine. Respect and Common Sense are words that come up again and again.
Anyways, this has become a rant that probably makes not all that much sense. This is really some random thoughts on this issue confused

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
they are no different to a night out down a pub. swinging is neither here nor there as far as the SOCIAL side of the meet comes into it.
n x x x .

No disrespect Neil but I have never seen someone giving another person a BJ in a pub before.... And thats the sort of thing that has been happening...
Shireen
xxx
And no disrespect Shireen, but isolated incidents such as this one will be brought up time and time again even though the munchit was at may have been last year and the two people consenting. I feel this has become more of an issue about NON-consentual touching etc. as common sense will tell you what is appropriate for a pub and what is not.
I have said before I don't want to see things like this at a social and it should be kept to the club afterwards, but I also feel that bringing up the same example from a while back does munches no favours what so ever.
It is a social and it should be forgotten that the swinging aspect comes into things as not everyone who attends a munch is not an active swinger anymore, or they might never have been.
It's not fair to assume that just because you attend you are up for anything.

9 Apr 2005

Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!
For me a SH event is an excuse to act like a tart and have a laugh with people I like and hopefully get to know them a bit better. I like a good snog, I'm not adverse to a good grope and as far as I'm concerned someone flashing themselves is a good laugh!
This doesn't for a moment change the fact that that NO means NO and anyone should be able to say "stop, I'm not happy with you doing that!" but it is everyone's responsibility to say something at the time if they are unhappy; just the same as it is everone's responsibilty to take no for an answer gracefully without acting like an idiot. At the end of the day we're all adults - we know life isn't perfect and we deal with the bumps along the way and move on.
Roger the Dragon cool

9 Apr 2005

since my name has been brought up as i am trying to encourage new SH members i will come into this....but to be honest i was going to let this one slide....i really don't know what i can add to the arguements that have been made so i thought i would make a few observations.....
i am in agreement with most that i think the term "munch" is being overused and stretched... me personally i would like to have to term for the purposes of SH redifined and tightened up so everyone clearly knows where they stand.... this would includes charges which seem to have started coming in... and completly seperating munches from after-parties
as i have to many other people munch organisers is have said to them that they can only affect things that they know about.... if something is happened then i would implore people to tell the organisors at the time and not to suffer in silence, as has been the case, if we know about it we can act!!!
but i would also say to regulars and munch veterans to be aware of their behaviour as newcommers will see this and follow their example.... i am not asking people to completely stop, that would be stupid, just to be more aware of how actions can be persieved...
i know for the north east munch in october i have already been put in an awkward position in regards to certain people and their invites or not as the case may be, but i will be reading everyone the riot act so they know what is acceptable.......
hopefully any newbies reading this will be more reassured by this.....
sean xxxxxxxxxxxx

9 Apr 2005

Well so far, this thread seems to span the entire spectrum of society...
It goes from people who don't swing, to people who swing but are shy, to people who are happy to play, but only when asked politely and only with people they know to people who love a snog and a grope and really don't mind!
We'll have to get the UN in to sort this one out.....

9 Apr 2005

Quote by bluexxx
I have been shocked - yes shocked - by some of the stories that are coming out on this thread. What some people are describing is sexual assault (that is Section 3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 if anyone is dull enough to want to go and look it up). As gem just said, it is not the organisers fault if people misbehave in this way. I'm sure no-one would blame you Clare and Steve for the tosser(s) who behaved in a CRIMINAL manner at the last Notts munch . However, it is simply not good enough to say that people should be able to deal with this sort of shit.... whether they can physically stop it, push people off, or whatever, the point is that they shouldn't even have to contemplate being in a situation like this! Munches are meant to be FUN, spending the night fending off randy shit heads is NOT fun :x
Personally speaking, I have had no problems with gropers or unwanted snoggers at munches. If someone did try it on, I'd deck them. Sorry, I know some people don't like violence, but I truly would just do it, sod the consequences. I've been banned from one club for dealing with a tosser, so sod it, I don't care - I'd do it again and take the rap! It REALLY fucks me off when people (whether at munches, parties, or clubs) think that cos it is a room full of swingers that they can behave in a way that is simply not appropriate and as I said above, in a CRIMINAL manner! Since when did the law of the land not apply when the word SWINGER comes into the equation???? I'm not suprised people are saying that they are being put off by what they are hearing about munches. I would be put off too if I was a newbie reading this thread! But I think this thread is timely and it is right that this is now coming out into the open rather than people keeping it to themselves or talking behind the scenes, thinking that they should not make it public.
I do not have a problem with people snogging at munches, I do not have a problem with flirting, and I do not have a problem with people dancing sexily, or behaving in an extrovert manner. However, when people think that they can simply join in with anything of this nature JUST cos it is a room full of people from a swingers site, they think again - it is WRONG! In real life, I am actually a quiet fairly reserved person (stop laughing at the back ). I do not want to be involved in the more extrovert things that have happened at munches, yet as long as people don't try to pressure me into anything I don't want to do, that is fine. Respect and Common Sense are words that come up again and again.
Anyways, this has become a rant that probably makes not all that much sense. This is really some random thoughts on this issue

I agree, and that is why I think that security should be able to step away from the door at some point. When I used to put on punk gigs in Brighton I used to do the door as well. I've broke up fights, had to sort out women who had been glassing each other in the toilets, thrown out glue sniffers and people injecting drugs. Along the way I have been known to nut one or two. But usualy outside while those just out to enjoy themselves did just that. Had anyone ever told me they had been groped or that someone was making advances and wouldnt take no for an answer? Taking them outside and sticking them to the road is the first thought that would cross my mind. Unless of course the offended parties anted to involve the police.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!

But Roger, the point is that every munch is advertised and depicted as a vanilla environment. People should respect that .. the organisers go a long way to stipulating this and yet people still use the excuse that it's an adult website get together therefore anything goes.
Because a few people can't respect the organisers wishes you're saying that those who don't want this shouldn't attend a munch becasue it's not their ideal situation. That's disrespectful.

9 Apr 2005

As this subject seems to be going round in circles,does anyone think that there are some solutions that can be put in place at future munches etc??????
As for locking doors after certain times,its a no turn up late for all sorts of reasons,people get lost (we had several),like to be fashoinably late bouncer stays on the door all night and stopped a load of unwanted people getting in last time.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
they are no different to a night out down a pub. swinging is neither here nor there as far as the SOCIAL side of the meet comes into it.
n x x x .

No disrespect Neil but I have never seen someone giving another person a BJ in a pub before.... And thats the sort of thing that has been happening...
Shireen
xxx
shireen, i know there's no disrespect there . . . kiss

;)
i've seen BJs and shagging in pubs, but that don't mean the pub is designed for people to indulge in BJs and shagging, or that everyone else should assume that shagging and BJs in pubs is the way forward? summat like that anyways? confused

i'm verging on drunk now, and probably not being very clear! :? lol

n x x x ;)

9 Apr 2005

I'm just a little concerned that the opportunity to tart, snog your friends, and dress up (at private functions) is now going to become an issue to over-compensate for those who seem to be incapable of maintaining bounderies. I'd hate to be read a riot act for expressing this side of myself at an event where this stuff never used to be a problem. If this is going to be the case, then of course I'd respect this, but I would be very disappointed to have to drop something which has played a great part in developing my confidence in myself.
Venusxxx

9 Apr 2005

A munch is a purely social event held in a totally neutral environment, often somewhere like a pub, where members of Swinging Heaven get to meet each other. As there's no play involved everyone can relax which gives newbies a chance to ask questions of the more experienced without any fear of getting jumped on, and gives the regulars time to catch-up with old friends and make new ones.

That is quoted from the definition of a munch posted on this site.
While munches are adult only affairs, so is a night down the local on a Saturday. I have yet to find a pub where some of the behaviour described occurs. If we go out for a social drink and chat then that is what we expect to happen. If we want to play we will go to a club. If people are feeling uncomfortable with behaviour at a munch then that is not their fault. A munch, as defined, should not cause anyone problems.
A munch cannot really be compared to a private party. What is acceptable in someone's house is not acceptable at a public venue, even if it has been hired exclusively. If it causes offence, as it obviously has, the more extreme flirting should not be happening at a munch.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Calista
Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!

But Roger, the point is that every munch is advertised and depicted as a vanilla environment. People should respect that .. the organisers go a long way to stipulating this and yet people still use the excuse that it's an adult website get together therefore anything goes.
Because a few people can't respect the organisers wishes you're saying that those who don't want this shouldn't attend a munch becasue it's not their ideal situation. That's disrespectful.
The organisers may wish everyone to sit down for a tea party - we all know that isn't what happens and no amount of pretending is going to change that. The behavior of a lot of the regular and respected members of this site is not vanilla at munches - I could start going through a list but I have no intention of doing so, from what I have seen a large portion of the people on here don't want to behave in a completely vanilla way when they go out to a SH party and calling it a munch doesn't change that. We seem to be trying to pretend that we all behave like saints until we are behind closed doors - I'm sorry but life isn't like that.
By the way I am not talking about non-consensual behavior here - I have as much condemnation for that as anyone else and if anyone cannot take no for an answer then they do not have a place within the swinging community.
Roger the Dragon cool

9 Apr 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
I'm just a little concerned that the opportunity to tart, snog your friends, and dress up (at private functions) is now going to become an issue to over-compensate for those who seem to be incapable of maintaining bounderies. I'd hate to be read a riot act for expressing this side of myself at an event where this stuff never used to be a problem. If this is going to be the case, then of course I'd respect this, but I would be very disappointed to have to drop something which has played a great part in developing my confidence in myself.
Venusxxx

Put much better than me but I agree entirely!
Roger the Dragon cool

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
This doesn't for a moment change the fact that that NO means NO and anyone should be able to say "stop, I'm not happy with you doing that!" but it is everyone's responsibility to say something at the time if they are unhappy; just the same as it is everone's responsibilty to take no for an answer gracefully without acting like an idiot. At the end of the day we're all adults - we know life isn't perfect and we deal with the bumps along the way and move on.
Roger the Dragon

There are sooooooo many points that I want to reply to in this thread, but it would probably take me all night, so I'm just going to pick your up, sorry Roger kiss

I know that I come across on here, in the chatroom - and more than likely in real life - as a very confident person. I seriously doubt that anyone will argue with me on that point. Unfortunately, in this instance, nobody knows me quite like I do. The experience I'm going to relate didn't happen at a munch, so please don't try and twist my quote later. My point remains the same though and relates to the above quote.
I was in a situation where someone stuck his hands down my top and felt my nipples in turn. I was absolutely mortified, and had someone suggested beforehand that something like this might happen, my reaction would be "I'd slap his feckin face and tell him to get his hands off my tits!" (at the very least!!!)
However, when it actually happened, I stood there, outwardly calm, let him finish what he was doing, and then walked off.
Inside I was seething, ashamed that I'd allowed it to happen and not say anything. I have taken it up with the person since and told him it was unnacceptable and he has apologised.
The point I'm trying to make is that we don't necessarily react in the way we might think we would react, and if you suddenly and unexpectedly find yourself in this situation, it can come as quite a shock. None of us should be put in this position in the first place, whether we are in a one-to-one situation, at a munch, a party, a club, whatever. I know that things like this have happened at munches, although you could insert a different scenario, such as being snogged by someone you don't want to snog, having your bum groped by someone you don't particularly know.... the list goes on and on. What I'm trying to say is, people at munches sometimes DO read things wrongly, whether that be because of excess alcohol, peer pressure (yes, it still happens when you're way past being a teenager!!) or simply the fact that "it's a swingers party, we can get away with things like that" mentality.
I've wondered recently whether the wording of the definition of a munch should be altered to perhaps include something to show that sexual assaults will NOT be tolerated. For example - "attendance at a munch does NOT imply that physical contact of any kind is acceptable without complete mutual consent" or something like that. As a few people have said, the lines seem to have become blurred just lately, for whatever reason.
I still stand by my opinion that munches are the best way to meet other users of the site in a totally pressure free environment, and if they were to suddenly disappear I for one would be devastated. I'm one of the people that loves to sing badly (cheers NiL rolleyes

) and get completely PAAF, and if that offends anyone, then at least I'm safe in the knowledge that I haven't broken any laws.
The same cannot be said for anyone who thinks that being in the company of swingers means that they can snog and grope anyone they take a liking to, and if this thread means that munches return to being that safe place we all think of them as, then I for one will be a very happy person.
This is the longest post I've put on here for a very long time, and I really want to finish it by reiterating the fact that IMHO munches really are the best way (second to none!) of meeting people from the site, and the situation I described did NOT happen at a munch. I also think that the other situations mentioned on this thread are definitely the exception rather than the rule, and without exception I've always had a fantastic night at the 4 munches I've been to.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!

But Roger, the point is that every munch is advertised and depicted as a vanilla environment. People should respect that .. the organisers go a long way to stipulating this and yet people still use the excuse that it's an adult website get together therefore anything goes.
Because a few people can't respect the organisers wishes you're saying that those who don't want this shouldn't attend a munch becasue it's not their ideal situation. That's disrespectful.
The organisers may wish everyone to sit down for a tea party - we all know that isn't what happens and no amount of pretending is going to change that. The behavior of a lot of the regular and respected members of this site is not vanilla at munches - I could start going through a list but I have no intention of doing so, from what I have seen a large portion of the people on here don't want to behave in a completely vanilla way when they go out to a SH party and calling it a munch doesn't change that. We seem to be trying to pretend that we all behave like saints until we are behind closed doors - I'm sorry but life isn't like that.
By the way I am not talking about non-consensual behavior here - I have as much condemnation for that as anyone else and if anyone cannot take no for an answer then they do not have a place within the swinging community.
Roger the Dragon cool

Without meaning to sound rude ..... you are turning a Munch into foreplay for the after-munch party! Which goes back to Ice's point earlier.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wring with harmless flirting and friendly kisses, I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Tool
Well so far, this thread seems to span the entire spectrum of society...
It goes from people who don't swing, to people who swing but are shy, to people who are happy to play, but only when asked politely and only with people they know to people who love a snog and a grope and really don't mind!
We'll have to get the UN in to sort this one out.....

Firstly let me say I am a Munch newbie, but have attended other swinging events, so am not a complete scene Virgin. I think that Tool when he mentions "The entire spectrum of Society" is absolutely right. This site covers just that.
This whole thread has been absolutely gripping. I am headed for my first Munch, with great trepidation, as I will be meeting a whole new bunch of people, my mind will be focused entirely on making a good impression, and on meeting as many people as possible, just to put faces to names. I am treating this Munch as a way to make friends, to meet with new people. To become part of this (SH) community.
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak on this matter.
John

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Angel Chat
by reiterating the fact that IMHO munches really are the best way (second to none!) of meeting people from the site, and the situation I described did NOT happen at a munch. I also think that the other situations mentioned on this thread are definitely the exception rather than the rule, and without exception I've always had a fantastic night at the 4 munches I've been to.

Newbies and people who havent yet been to munches should read this statement because it is would be a shame for all the munches that are organised to get a bad name because of a few isolated cases.

9 Apr 2005

some times i wonder why mods still keep being mods!
Please tell me what are the good sides of being one dunno

we here all about how hard it is for you............ i agree............. i just don't no why you do it :dunno: ..........and also this tread about the difficulties at munches you have.....................I can really relate to it..and i do hope peeps take notice!
But why o why do you mod?
Debsxxxxxxxxxxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!

But Roger, the point is that every munch is advertised and depicted as a vanilla environment. People should respect that .. the organisers go a long way to stipulating this and yet people still use the excuse that it's an adult website get together therefore anything goes.
Because a few people can't respect the organisers wishes you're saying that those who don't want this shouldn't attend a munch becasue it's not their ideal situation. That's disrespectful.
The organisers may wish everyone to sit down for a tea party - we all know that isn't what happens and no amount of pretending is going to change that. The behavior of a lot of the regular and respected members of this site is not vanilla at munches - I could start going through a list but I have no intention of doing so, from what I have seen a large portion of the people on here don't want to behave in a completely vanilla way when they go out to a SH party and calling it a munch doesn't change that. We seem to be trying to pretend that we all behave like saints until we are behind closed doors - I'm sorry but life isn't like that.
By the way I am not talking about non-consensual behavior here - I have as much condemnation for that as anyone else and if anyone cannot take no for an answer then they do not have a place within the swinging community.
Roger the Dragon cool

Then if that is an honest description of what munches are about, it should be made clear to everyone who attends, and the description on the site should be changed. Then, only people who aren't offended will attend.
I'm not a puritan, I wouldn't be here if I was. I just think we should have clarity so that people know what they're getting into. It wouldn't put me off going, or snogging people who approved, I just think 'rules of engegement' should be made clear and stuck to.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
Here are my thoughts - unpopular though I'm sure they are!
At the end of the day this is a swinging site - sex may not be the only reason people are on here but it is the central theme that the site revolves about, friendship is important, so is socialising and having a laugh but sex is why the site exists in the first place. Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!
Roger the Dragon

I've shortened your post up a bit Roger as it's only this bit that I don't agree with despite it being true.......eh does that make sense? god why do I get into this loon

I am far from being a 'vanilla person' but I do know the difference in the behaviour expected of me or that I can expect to witness, when we go to a swingers club and get butt naked or when I pull on a Tuxedo and escort mrs davej to a summer ball.
It would seem from what you say that the only problem we have here, is that the vast majority of us, have misread what a munch is supposed to be. If thats truely the case and it's not the social gathering that I've been lead to believe it is supposed to be and that despite us all being members of a swinging site, we are incapable of seperating out one particular gathering type and the behaviour that goes with it, then I am happy to leave the munches to you and I suspect, an eventually dwindling band as the barriers come down. This saddens me cos like a lot of others I've enjoyed meeting people from the site through the munch idea, but....hey ho, aint gonna bother me a whole lot, but I do reckon you've a bloody good vehicle for folks to get to know each other and then perhaps move on. I just gotta niggling feeling that the wheels might eventually come off. dunno

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
Behavior at parties gets raunchy - it is always going to happen when you get a room full of liberated adults together, some of whom may have had a few too many driinks. If this is not your scene then a Munch, Party, Social whatever is never going to be your ideal situation - this isn't a vanilla site and it isn't full of vanilla people and no amount of pretending is going to change that!

I highlighted parties as we are not talking about "parties" in this thread we are talking about munches.... Completely different thing...

Quote by rogerthedragon
I could start going through a list but I have no intention of doing so, from what I have seen a large portion of the people on here don't want to behave in a completely vanilla way when they go out to a SH party and calling it a munch doesn't change that. We seem to be trying to pretend that we all behave like saints until we are behind closed doors - I'm sorry but life isn't like that.

Again I have highlighted the word party because this isnt about parties.... People can play to their hearts content roger at a "party" but a munch is a vanilla environment and if people dont want to behave then maybe THEY shouldnt attend.....

Quote by Calista
Without meaning to sound rude ..... you are turning a Munch into foreplay for the after-munch party! Which goes back to Ice's point earlier.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wring with harmless flirting and friendly kisses, I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

Agreed Calista
Shireen
xxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Calista
Without meaning to sound rude ..... you are turning a Munch into foreplay for the after-munch party! Which goes back to Ice's point earlier.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wring with harmless flirting and friendly kisses, I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

I am not turning a Munch into anything - I have been to 3 - all very different, but the behavior of a lot of people at them would certainly turn heads in an ordinary pub - this is despite all the threads saying how a munch is a completely vanilla environment. Maybe this suggests that there are actually a lot people who find the current level of behavior fine - if they didn't there wouldn't be a great long list of people wanting to turn up the next time. I don't quite see why we are worrying about it - if people didn't enjoy them as they are no-one would be going.
I agree that any idiots who are just along to try their luck with anyone should be shown the door just like they would be anywhere else but otherwise the raunchy behavior already exists - and it is not newbies who are doing it - it is being done by Mods and regular members, why pretend how innocent we all are?

Quote by Tool
Then if that is an honest description of what munches are about, it should be made clear to everyone who attends, and the description on the site should be changed. Then, only people who aren't offended will attend.
I'm not a puritan, I wouldn't be here if I was. I just think we should have clarity so that people know what they're getting into. It wouldn't put me off going, or snogging people who approved, I just think 'rules of engegement' should be made clear and stuck to.

I agree entirely - but I have to say that if the rules as they are now where strictly enforced I would not be attending any of the events that where called "Munch" and a lot of people would have been asked to leave from the previous munches I have attended.

Quote by davej
I've shortened your post up a bit Roger as it's only this bit that I don't agree with despite it being true.......eh does that make sense? god why do I get into this
I am far from being a 'vanilla person' but I do know the difference in the behaviour expected of me or that I can expect to witness, when we go to a swingers club and get butt naked or when I pull on a Tuxedo and escort mrs davej to a summer ball.
It would seem from what you say that the only problem we have here, is that the vast majority of us, have misread what a munch is supposed to be. If thats truely the case and it's not the social gathering that I've been lead to believe it is supposed to be and that despite us all being members of a swinging site, we are incapable of seperating out one particular gathering type and the behaviour that goes with it, then I am happy to leave the munches to you and I suspect, an eventually dwindling band as the barriers come down. This saddens me cos like a lot of others I've enjoyed meeting people from the site through the munch idea, but....hey ho, aint gonna bother me a whole lot, but I do reckon you've a bloody good vehicle for folks to get to know each other and then perhaps move on. I just gotta niggling feeling that the wheels might eventually come off.

The point I am trying to make is that the Munches are not Vanilla events at the moment and that certainly isn't stopping people queueing up to attend them. I haven't seen any lack of people signing up for the second Notts, Leicester and Essex Munches yet it is the first of each of these I am talking about. I don't think it is a dwindling band of people who want to attend munches/parties/whatever in fact a lot of people have commented that there are too many and are disappointed that they cannot attend more of them.
I am not talking about relaxing the rules - I am just saying that a lot of people don't play by them and a lot of the regulars know that but pretend it doesn't happen.
Roger the Dragon cool

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
I am not talking about relaxing the rules - I am just saying that a lot of people don't play by them and a lot of the regulars know that but pretend it doesn't happen.
Roger the Dragon

But does that make it right that some members are made to feel intimidated or - much worse - sexually assaulted? No. And that's why I personally feel that further clarification and enforcement is required.
I don't for a minute want munches to turn into a sedate tea party, but neither do I feel that anyone should be made to feel the way some members HAVE been made to feel at some munches, merely because they are members of a swingers' website.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
So what's gone wrong? This was never an issue a year ago.
Venusxxx

Perhaps that which was accepted, became expected. Big difference.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Angel Chat

I am not talking about relaxing the rules - I am just saying that a lot of people don't play by them and a lot of the regulars know that but pretend it doesn't happen.
Roger the Dragon

But does that make it right that some members are made to feel intimidated or - much worse - sexually assaulted? No. And that's why I personally feel that further clarification and enforcement is required.
I don't for a minute want munches to turn into a sedate tea party, but neither do I feel that anyone should be made to feel the way some members HAVE been made to feel at some munches, merely because they are members of a swingers' website.
This a bit of a different issue - there are two points here:
One is about acceptable consensual behavior - is it ok to get your tits out? Is it okay play with a blokes cock etc etc. All with consent of both parties but at a Munch.
The other is about sexual assault where someone is taking advantage of another person without their consent - this is behavior that is criminal and is unacceptable anywhere including swinging clubs, night clubs, private parties etc.
Confusing the two doesn't help - the first one is a question of morality and in my opinion a bit of fun. The second is completely different and I would have complete sympathy for anyone falling victim to it.
Roger the Dragon 8-)

9 Apr 2005

Well I can't speak for all newbies, but Munches in the way I perceived them (happy flirty New Years type environment) have helped me progress confidently into the swinging scene, and I think that is the purpose Munches are supposed to be serving.

I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

The above wouldn't have helped eased me into the scene.
The below has

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with harmless flirting and friendly kisses

Add a bit of pole dancing to that, and I'm as happy as a pig in shit :mrgreen:
Let's not encourage Munches to become too vanilla eh? Because to me, and many others, the whole point is explore the liberation. This goes up in stages, munches being the first.
Vanilla is a very ambiguous term, depending on which Vanilla event you choose to compare it too.
Venusxxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
Well I can't speak for all newbies, but Munches in the way I perceived them (happy flirty New Years type environment) have helped me progress confidently into the swinging scene, and I think that is the purpose Munches are supposed to be serving.
I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

The above wouldn't have helped eased me into the scene.
The below has

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with harmless flirting and friendly kisses

Add a bit of pole dancing to that, and I'm as happy as a pig in shit :mrgreen:
Let's not encourage Munches to become too vanilla eh? Because to me, and many others, the whole point is explore the liberation. This goes up in stages, munches being the first.
Vanilla is a very ambiguous term, depending on which Vanilla event you choose to compare it too.
Venusxxx
I have to agree, Venus.
Btw - can I nick your " (happy flirty New Years type environment) " It just seems a better description than my "wedding reception" wink

9 Apr 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
I'd not want to attend a munch where we all sat and talked quietly amongst ourselves, sipping cherry cola and being very british.

The above wouldn't have helped eased me into the scene.
The below has

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with harmless flirting and friendly kisses

Add a bit of pole dancing to that, and I'm as happy as a pig in shit :mrgreen:
Let's not encourage Munches to become too vanilla eh? Because to me, and many others, the whole point is explore the liberation. This goes up in stages, munches being the first.
Vanilla is a very ambiguous term, depending on which Vanilla event you choose to compare it too.
Venusxxx
Don't get me wrong, the NW2 munch was my first and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, I flirted, played, drank, met people and was more than happy to attend the club afterwards, even though I had no intention of playing necessarily. The Notts one I just felt that people were introducing themselves to my online flirty personality rather than me (not sure how to get round that one though) or were just overstepping the mark completely.
Pole Dancing definitely ... but when you can see the fact that the female in question in underwearless and pierced, then maybe that's a step too far (and this as far as I am aware has never occured at a munch it's just an example)!

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
The point I am trying to make is that the Munches are not Vanilla events at the moment and that certainly isn't stopping people queueing up to attend them. I haven't seen any lack of people signing up for the second Notts, Leicester and Essex Munches yet it is the first of each of these I am talking about. I don't think it is a dwindling band of people who want to attend munches/parties/whatever in fact a lot of people have commented that there are too many and are disappointed that they cannot attend more of them.
I am not talking about relaxing the rules - I am just saying that a lot of people don't play by them and a lot of the regulars know that but pretend it doesn't happen.
Roger the Dragon

Don't disagree with anything you've said Roger other than the remark that a lot of the regulars pretend it doesn't happen, thats why I'm posting in this thread. I for one am in the queue for the next Essex one and looking forward to it.
My point is that for the most part, munches are still a bloody good night out and broadly speaking fit the spec. so to speak. However, if you and others continue to chip away at the boundaries by accepting and perhaps promoting what wasn't previousely on the agenda, then you move the thing into a different arena which in my opinion, would be a backward step.
I will give you a prediction now, unless munches are better interpruted, someone is gonna get mightily offended at some stage in the future and someone is gonna end up with a thick ear, you watch people stay away if that sort of thing goes on.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by dambuster
Btw - can I nick your " (happy flirty New Years type environment) " It just seems a better description than my "wedding reception"

Be my guest lol

Venusxxx