My thoughts on social gatherings.......

9 Apr 2005

Fuckin' 'ell - I've never felt so alienated as I do now. Surely there must be some basis to enable those who are uncertain about things to ease their way in. And I'm sorry Clare, Steve and Roger, that does not entail walking in to an event when people are snogging and groping. The definition of a munch is one that falls far short of that sort of behaviour (see Northwest_cpl's post). There's plenty of opportunity to extend that sort of behaviour in post munch consensual activities like parties.
I know a lot of people who know eachother want to get right down to it and that's fine but it should not obliterate the munch - it should be summat else!!

9 Apr 2005

Quote by rogerthedragon
there are two points here:
One is about acceptable consensual behavior - is it ok to get your tits out? Is it okay play with a blokes cock etc etc. All with consent of both parties but at a Munch.
The other is about sexual assault where someone is taking advantage of another person without their consent - this is behavior that is criminal and is unacceptable anywhere including swinging clubs, night clubs, private parties etc.
Confusing the two doesn't help - the first one is a question of morality and in my opinion a bit of fun. The second is completely different and I would have complete sympathy for anyone falling victim to it.
Roger the Dragon

There is a third point Roger, which kind of muddies the water a bit between the two you've highlighted, and that is the matter of people's expectations:
Because we are members of a sexually oriented site, some people think anything goes, anywhere, anytime.
Because we are members of a sexually oriented site, some people feel obliged to go along with whatever they think is required, and you just can't get around that by saying we're capable of saying no. Social acceptance is very important to a lot of people, and I know for a fact that there are those who will refrain from objecting to what they really don't want, rather than (in their eyes) risk causing offence or being ostracised for being a party pooper. Rushing up to someone and grabbing them before they have a chance to indicate their intentions, is not on because it gives them no chance to prevent it except by actually complaining, or even by using physical force to deter such advances. It is up to the person making the approach to make eye contact and give the other person a chance to respond.
Body language is very expressive, but not when you don't give the other person's body a chance to speak.
Ice

9 Apr 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
But Munches in the way I perceived them (happy flirty New Years type environment) have helped me progress confidently into the swinging scene, and I think that is the purpose Munches are supposed to be serving........ Let's not encourage Munches to become too vanilla eh? Because to me, and many others, the whole point is explore the liberation. This goes up in stages, munches being the first.
Venusxxx

Exactly my thoughts, a munch is a social night were everyone should feel comfortable to be able to 'flirt' openly just like you would do at an average New Years Eve Party. However, everyone needs to understand that it is still being carried out in a social environment.
With hindsight, I was probably too inexperienced when I organised the first Wigan Mini Munch but as far as I am aware, no-one had any problems with people flirting too outrageousely, and I hope that none of the appalling and inexcusable behaviour which has already been described, happened. If it did, then I am not aware of it, which I know is no excuse, but as an organiser, you can only be in one place at a time. You can only do so much 'policing' of what is or is not happening.
I am now getting slightly concerned about the forthcoming Wigan Munch, which is having a 'Back to School theme'. Is this giving people the wrong idea? I know that a lot of the dress will be fairly outrageous but will this give the wrong idea to people attending?
As already said, it all starts to make you think if organising a munch is actually worth it?

9 Apr 2005

My point is that for the most part, munches are still a bloody good night out and broadly speaking fit the spec. so to speak. However, if you and others continue to chip away at the boundaries by accepting and perhaps promoting what wasn't previousely on the agenda, then you move the thing into a different arena which in my opinion, would be a backward step.
I will give you a prediction now, unless munches are better interpruted, someone is gonna get mightily offended at some stage in the future and someone is gonna end up with a thick ear, you watch people stay away if that sort of thing goes on.

Very good post Davej with many good points. It is exactly how I feel about things.
I have taken my name off lists before now because I have heard that the security wasn't as tight as it should be, there were two people gunning for an argeument and were hoping the munch would be an ideal chance to 'sort things out' and I don't mean by brushing it under the table and forgetting about. I don't want to travel and be stuck in a strange city feeling so uncomfy that I return to my hotel room to avoid the fights. As Dave said, I'd stay away.
I for one go to a munch for a no pressure pissed up dance, sing and laugh. If I want to feel as if I am being groomed for sex in a social environment I shall go and sit in the television room in a swingers club and be assessed by every person that passes me as to whether I am good enough to shag or not.
When I posted about stopping swinging a few months back now, I was amazed how many people I thought were my social friends too suddenly were nowhere to be seen. Once the offer of a shag was removed certain people faded into the background. Does this mean that because I am no longer swinging that I can not attend munches?
I am NOT an object to be fucked, touched or passed around. I am a person and would treat others with that same respect. I don't just talk to the people I might want to play with but everybody else too.
Gem. x

9 Apr 2005

Quote by westerross
Fuckin' 'ell - I've never felt so alienated as I do now. Surely there must be some basis to enable those who are uncertain about things to ease their way in. And I'm sorry Clare, Steve and Roger, that does not entail walking in to an event when people are snogging and groping. The definition of a munch is one that falls far short of that sort of behaviour (see Northwest_cpl's post). There's plenty of opportunity to extend that sort of behaviour in post munch consensual activities like parties.
I know a lot of people who know eachother want to get right down to it and that's fine but it should not obliterate the munch - it should be summat else!!

can i then ask you a question.... it is all well and good you feeling like that and i am sorry that you do....but what is your solution? to stop people from snogging and groping because as roger pointed out, it is mainly the SH regulars doing it (that is about as far as me and roger are going to agree on this thread i think)
and as venus said earlier i feel sad that it has come to the stage when i feel that a) i am feeling like i may have to read the riot act to people and b)at the moment after this one if i want even run one of these again.....
i have suggest tightening up the munch definations and rather than reading the riot act, i may send everyone a copy of that in the pm i will send to people, as long as the defination isn't "up for debate" then hopefully that would solve the problem
sean xxxxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by little gem
Very good post Davej with many good points.
Gem. x

Was it.. :shock: fuck it, can you tell me by P.M. next time I've a reputation to keep rotflmao

9 Apr 2005

Here's a quote from this thread http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/19335.html (sorry Misschief) which took place before sexual harrassment was a concern. The discussion about bounderies etc didn't seem as blurred back then.

Quote by MISSCHIEF
Venus!!
Stop yer fretting!
You loved it ...... and certainly everyone else loved it! You had fun and were comfortable. Like you said, if you can read situations then you know when to and when not to etc. then go for it! :twisted:
So stop fretting and continue with your glowing
MissChief - on second pack of tic tacs

I was new enough to worry the next day (also bearing in mind this redface

), but in reality was sensible enough not to fuck it up. I think the majority of decent people would be. The point is, I was a newbie, and the freedom encouraged me to 'glow', and I had a lot of glowing to catch up on! :mrgreen:
Venusxxx

9 Apr 2005

I've just been reading this thread with some interest.
As a newbie (and after reassurance from db) I 've put my name down to attend the next Notts munch, if possible. However after reading this tonight I'm having second thoughts, although I'm a member here I'm still fairly shy and not outgoing in RL, so would probably be the 'one' in the corner at a munch holding everyones coats. redface

Never having been to any munches before I can't comment on the things that have been said, but think now that this topic has been discussed, it might make those people likely to act irresponsibly, be a little more thoughtful of others feelings now, and munches can get back to/carry on being the purely social events they were intended to be.

9 Apr 2005

As Tool has said, we would love to come to a munch. However we have been having a long discussion since reading this thread about whether we should or not.
Like Calista I have a history of domestic violence. That history has had the oposite effect on me and ensured that never again will I put up with anyone doing anything to me that I don't want them to. However I would still not want to have to put up with some of the behaviour mentioned in this thread, and nobody should have to.
My biggest concern regarding munches though is something different. It has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread but it was a scenario that concerned me from the first time I read about munches. As many people on this site have already met each other on numerous occasions there is a danger of the forums becoming cliquey. Generally this doesn't happen but I have seen threads that have become a discussion between regulars and full of 'in' jokes. On a message board I can ignore those threads but if a munch was to become a social gathering for a group of friends to the exclusion of all others I would walk out.
I still hope Tool and I will attend a munch some time soon, my attitude is give it a go, if we hate it we don't have to go to another. Having read through this thread I think Tool is more inclined to stick to answering ads rather than getting any more involved - I may have to do some persuading! It is a shame that, rather than munches being a way of introducing newbies to the scene, they are actually scaring us off!

9 Apr 2005

As most people would prefer these things weren't mentioned, it seems like the general opinion is I should keep my Gob shut! :gagged:
Roger the Dragon, 999 Not Out! cool

9 Apr 2005

Quote by little gem
My point is that for the most part, munches are still a bloody good night out and broadly speaking fit the spec. so to speak. However, if you and others continue to chip away at the boundaries by accepting and perhaps promoting what wasn't previousely on the agenda, then you move the thing into a different arena which in my opinion, would be a backward step.
I will give you a prediction now, unless munches are better interpruted, someone is gonna get mightily offended at some stage in the future and someone is gonna end up with a thick ear, you watch people stay away if that sort of thing goes on.

Very good post Davej with many good points. It is exactly how I feel about things.
I have taken my name off lists before now because I have heard that the security wasn't as tight as it should be, there were two people gunning for an argeument and were hoping the munch would be an ideal chance to 'sort things out' and I don't mean by brushing it under the table and forgetting about. I don't want to travel and be stuck in a strange city feeling so uncomfy that I return to my hotel room to avoid the fights. As Dave said, I'd stay away.
I for one go to a munch for a no pressure pissed up dance, sing and laugh. If I want to feel as if I am being groomed for sex in a social environment I shall go and sit in the television room in a swingers club and be assessed by every person that passes me as to whether I am good enough to shag or not.
When I posted about stopping swinging a few months back now, I was amazed how many people I thought were my social friends too suddenly were nowhere to be seen. Once the offer of a shag was removed certain people faded into the background. Does this mean that because I am no longer swinging that I can not attend munches?
I am NOT an object to be fucked, touched or passed around. I am a person and would treat others with that same respect. I don't just talk to the people I might want to play with but everybody else too.
Gem. x totally agree there we went to a munch and were talking to a couple who thought we were gona play with them ,we never and they aint talked to us since ,went to a social and was asked what we were into ,they were told,after social pms even beat us home ,with the same crap you get sent in emails,you know the same shit,right its a social ,a drinkm a dance its a night out ,just cause you have a laugh and fun with ppl dont mean ya want to shag them , and if persons think like that they are only thinking about one thing themselfs and thats very selfish so munches mini meets howay lets go for the just the social part if anythings gona happen lets take it back to your rooms homes wherever your staying

9 Apr 2005

Quote by fabio grooverider
can i then ask you a question.... it is all well and good you feeling like that and i am sorry that you do....but what is your solution? to stop people from snogging and groping because as roger pointed out, it is mainly the SH regulars doing it (that is about as far as me and roger are going to agree on this thread i think)

Ok I will ask this..... If you go to the pub on a saturday night, do you snog and grope the girls that you know in there??..... Then why should it be allowed at munches??.... Steve and I are thinking about organising a munch, if we continue with the idea it will be re-named a social party so that we can decide on the guest list to eliminate this sort of behaviour which in our minds is not acceptable...

Quote by westerross
Fuckin' 'ell - I've never felt so alienated as I do now. Surely there must be some basis to enable those who are uncertain about things to ease their way in. And I'm sorry Clare, Steve and Roger, that does not entail walking in to an event when people are snogging and groping. The definition of a munch is one that falls far short of that sort of behaviour (see Northwest_cpl's post). There's plenty of opportunity to extend that sort of behaviour in post munch consensual activities like parties.

You are not alone TE... trust me.... kiss

Shireen
xxx

9 Apr 2005

Uhuru, munches aren't cliquey at all; it's likely that some people will drift toward one another because they've met or even played before, but there are usually lots of people who haven't ever laid eyes on one another. The point is, for newbies and more experienced site members, to meet other swingers (whether it's to 'check them out' or to socialise in the company of likeminded folk).

9 Apr 2005

Roger, you might not like this.
As you know I wanted to go to your non-Munch get-together in a pub and was really disappointed when I couldn't because back problems prevented me making the journey.
However, when I later read the posts and read the 'Pished in Peterborough' thread I thought 'Thank god I didn't go'.
Because I wanted to meet up and chat - I really did - I want to at every Munch but I can't. Either because the music is to loud or because people don't talk to me.
But I didn't want to be part of a crowd that attracted attention - I didn't want to flash my tits in public. I love the action behind closed doors as you well know. But I may never go to another SH social function because of what happens.
Jezzay.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Alleyson
I've just been reading this thread with some interest.
As a newbie (and after reassurance from db) I 've put my name down to attend the next Notts munch, if possible. However after reading this tonight I'm having second thoughts, although I'm a member here I'm still fairly shy and not outgoing in RL, so would probably be the 'one' in the corner at a munch holding everyones coats.
Never having been to any munches before I can't comment on the things that have been said, but think now that this topic has been discussed, it might make those people likely to act irresponsibly, be a little more thoughtful of others feelings now, and munches can get back to/carry on being the purely social events they were intended to be.

Alleyson..... it's people like yourself and Tune Essence that worry me when I read a thread like this. Shit I know that came out wrong already, let me try to explain properly.
It worries me that people who have never been to a munch will read this and think "Omg they're all bloody perverts! I'm never going to a munch!" Let me try and put in perspective for you.
Before I went to my very first munch (last May in Manchester) I'd read all the definitions and other threads about the fact that it was a purely social meet in a vanilla environment and that no play would take place. In my naivete (sp?) I thought it was just "hardened swingers" saying that to entice newbies like me along, but that when I got there I'd be subjected to sights of people shagging on pool tables and in toilets and basically anywhere else I might look. Basically, I was terrified. I'd never been to anything remotely like it before and had no idea what to expect, despite the numerous threads and posts about munches and parties.
Reading this thread, all those fears come flooding back to me, and as a single female if I was to read this I'd never ever go to a munch because this makes it look as though anyone you smile at or even look at in the wrong way is likely to make a pass at you.
I say again - this is not the case.
There have been a fewisolated cases where people have overstepped the mark and behaved in a way that has made one or more people feel very uncomfortable, to the point where those people are now questioning whether they want to attend any further SH socials.
I'd like to think that this thread will highlight the problems and make sure that they are tackled - preferably to the point that this kind of situation will never arise again. I'm still very concerned that while this thread is entirely justified, it could serve to prevent some people from ever attending a munch.
I think that all of us as a communityshould make sure that nobody is ever put in a position where they feel threatened or out of their depth. Somehow, we need to find a way to keep that "New Years Eve party" feel, whilst also protecting ourselves and our fellow members from any kind of unwanted advances.
How we do that is actually beyond me dunno

9 Apr 2005

Good point you raise there, Jezzay, about the music. That's something that Chris and I have said before. You're wanting to chat but can't because the music's too loud confused

The mini-munches have been better in that respect; because people just turn up they are more social occasions (the Notts. and the Yorks. were in pubs on weeknights with no disco laid on) where you can actually have a conversation.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
can i then ask you a question.... it is all well and good you feeling like that and i am sorry that you do....but what is your solution? to stop people from snogging and groping because as roger pointed out, it is mainly the SH regulars doing it (that is about as far as me and roger are going to agree on this thread i think)

Ok I will ask this..... If you go to the pub on a saturday night, do you snog and grope the girls that you know in there??..... Then why should it be allowed at munches??.... Steve and I are thinking about organising a munch, if we continue with the idea it will be re-named a social party so that we can decide on the guest list to eliminate this sort of behaviour which in our minds is not acceptable...

shirleen.....
i am actually on your side in regards to this... which is why all the way thru this i have been asking for a better defination of a "munch" i was asking is there is a better soloution to this than to stop people snogging and groping as it is the SH regulars that are most guity of doing this... even if they have know each other for a while....and as i said before that was the only thing that me and rogerthedragon agree on in this situation...
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....
sean xxxxxx

9 Apr 2005

New post cos I'm actually a bit pissed and missed out the most important part rolleyes

When I got to my first munch, I was terrified. I clung to the bar, and as Fred Flintstone will testify, it took someone rather strong to prise my fingers from the bar so that I'd actually talk to people. Yes, I got very drunk, but I said the next day that I couldn't believe how normal the people there were. People that I could easily imagine being on the school PTA or colleagues at work. Nicepeople who made me feel at ease and welcomed me with open arms and made me feel at home. It's a very rare community is this one.
Yes, there have been some problems at munches, and some people have stepped way over the boundaries that exist for all of our comfort and safety. Let's not forget though, how many people these munches have brought together in a social environment. How many friendships have been forged.
I've had so many visitors over the last few weeks while I've been off sick from work. People have driven from London, Blackburn, Coventry, Staffordshire and the other side of Manchester, just to make me a cup of coffee, have a natter and then drive home. ALl of these people have been initially met at munches, and I can only think of 2 of those visitors that I've had anything more than social interraction with.
Munches are a fantastic way to meet new friends, whether they be purely social friends, friends that you end up shagging, or something else. Let's not let a few complete tw@s who can't read and understand the rules spoil that for newcomers please!!

9 Apr 2005

Quote by fabio grooverider
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....

So be it Sean, but Steve and I would like to ensure that people would know that they can come and know that there would be no "embarrassing" situations... That goes for Steve and I as well.... We may well be outgoing but I sure as hell dont want people grabbing me and snogging me just because they have conversed with me online....
Shireen
xxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....

So be it Sean, but Steve and I would like to ensure that people would know that they can come and know that there would be no "embarrassing" situations.

Nice to know that you can be objective about it Shireen. Will be reassuring for anyone who's a little concerned.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....

So be it Sean, but Steve and I would like to ensure that people would know that they can come and know that there would be no "embarrassing" situations... That goes for Steve and I as well.... We may well be outgoing but I sure as hell dont want people grabbing me and snogging me just because they have conversed with me online....
Shireen
xxx
OOO shooot Shireen :doh: .............. you have totally ruined me fantersise............ i was hoping i could pinch ya bum when we meet at a munch .o well Debs goes off and signs : wink

(
love ya
Debsxxxxxxxxxx kiss

9 Apr 2005

As a newbie , (oh gawd ere we go again) ...ok as a person with an interest in erotica and or just a sad deparate single man , my thoughts are changing from postings and general chat on this site. to maybe attending a Munch if invited sometime. Clearly there are those unenlightend ones who turn up with their own ideas about swinging or shall we say open "relationships" however I am starting to see that we are not just talking free easy sex here but more of a alternate society. To bore you a bit more I have among my other interests an interest in paganism which usually brings the same sort of illinformed comment such as "so you do nudie sex romps by moonlight and do strange things with chickens then eh ! eh ! ......cor ! er can I join?" to which the answer is usually well no but if you go away and do some serious study then : 1/ You will not look a complete pratt,2/You will meet interesting people who can develop your interest 3/ you may gain a whole lot more from the experience even if its not what you first thought! then you can join.....an enjoy nudie sex romps and..NO! NO! (Please ignore the last bit!)

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....

So be it Sean, but Steve and I would like to ensure that people would know that they can come and know that there would be no "embarrassing" situations... That goes for Steve and I as well.... We may well be outgoing but I sure as hell dont want people grabbing me and snogging me just because they have conversed with me online....
Shireen
xxx
Yet another valid point. And one which was covered in one of my recent social visits by a friend I've met at munches.
Part of the definition of a munch is that they are open to all groups of people from the site, whether that be singles, couples, trans, bi, gay, cd, erm......... and whatever other groups there are that I can't think of right now.
Anyway.......... I also know that the organiser of a munch has the right to refuse entry to a munch to certain individuals purely and simply because "they have a problem with this individual".
Whatever that problem might be, whether it's down to a member not having been a member for long enpugh, complaints from another member about that member's behaviour in the past or whatever, munch organisers CAN (as far as I understand it) say no to certain individual's invitation.
I personally think that this is open to abuse. I know of two people recently who have been made to feel that they are unwelcome because of either opinions that they have raised in the past , or someone else's views on them. I don't necessarily agree with either of the instances that I'm thinking of, but at the same time, it gives other munch organisers a precedent whereby they can refuse invitations to a munch purely on the grounds of past behaviours.
I'm beginning to confuse myself now, tonight is the first time in a month that I've had more than 2 glasses of wine to drink, but in my eyes, if a munch organiser has heard of someone behaving in an innappropriate manner, as long as they aren't discriminating against a particular group of people, the organiser has the final say on who gets an invite and who doesn't.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Angel Chat
New post cos I'm actually a bit pissed and missed out the most important part
When I got to my first munch, I was terrified. I clung to the bar, and as Fred Flintstone will testify, it took someone rather strong to prise my fingers from the bar so that I'd actually talk to people. Yes, I got very drunk, but I said the next day that I couldn't believe how normal the people there were. People that I could easily imagine being on the school PTA or colleagues at work. Nice people who made me feel at ease and welcomed me with open arms and made me feel at home. It's a very rare community is this one.
Yes, there have been some problems at munches, and some people have stepped way over the boundaries that exist for all of our comfort and safety. Let's not forget though, how many people these munches have brought together in a social environment. How many friendships have been forged.
I've had so many visitors over the last few weeks while I've been off sick from work. People have driven from London, Blackburn, Coventry, Staffordshire and the other side of Manchester, just to make me a cup of coffee, have a natter and then drive home. ALl of these people have been initially met at munches, and I can only think of 2 of those visitors that I've had anything more than social interraction with.
Munches are a fantastic way to meet new friends, whether they be purely social friends, friends that you end up shagging, or something else. Let's not let a few complete tw@s who can't read and understand the rules spoil that for newcomers please!!

I quite agree with that Ac the last two munches I 've been on have expaned my friends list and it to concerns me that this post is (although highlighting a problem with some incidents) putting people off attending what is a really good time.
Perhaps if newbies or people who want to go to a munch, but are wary, could approach those who have been here a while and have experienced munches before to meet up first and walk in with them and keep close until they feel comfortably then maybe this would go some way to reassuring them. I know this worked for me and easy, as a lovely couple on here did that for us.

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Shireen_Mids
if you wanted to do that with your social meet then i would fully support t l and i hope that i would still get an invite, but i am guessing that you would end up elimating half the people on SH that you actually like so much.....

So be it Sean, but Steve and I would like to ensure that people would know that they can come and know that there would be no "embarrassing" situations... That goes for Steve and I as well.... We may well be outgoing but I sure as hell dont want people grabbing me and snogging me just because they have conversed with me online....
Shireen
xxx
if that is the way and the road that you want to go down then i admire you for your convictions... but in essence in changing your munch into a meet, you can set the terms and condictions,
what i am deperatly trying to avoid is down the road it may come down to munch organiser to determine the extent to which the rules are applied.. and that is one thing i would rather not have, hence the tighening of munch defination.. or general giudelines for what we can and can't do in regard to behaviour..... if that becomes clearer at least we are playing by the same set of rules and you then have a clearer distinction between meet, munch and afterparty....
sean xxxxxxxxx

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Angel Chat
Anyway.......... I also know that the organiser of a munch has the right to refuse entry to a munch to certain individuals purely and simply because "they have a problem with this individual".
Whatever that problem might be, whether it's down to a member not having been a member for long enpugh, complaints from another member about that member's behaviour in the past or whatever, munch organisers CAN (as far as I understand it) say no to certain individual's invitation.
I personally think that this is open to abuse. I know of two people recently who have been made to feel that they are unwelcome because of either opinions that they have raised in the past , or someone else's views on them. I don't necessarily agree with either of the instances that I'm thinking of, but at the same time, it gives other munch organisers a precedent whereby they can refuse invitations to a munch purely on the grounds of past behaviours.

Angel it's great to see you posting again and I completely agree with you. Whether or not it's down to the wine but you've said much better, what I've tried to say and given up and deleted on more than one occasion.
I think the organisation of munches is open to abuse and it does concern me. The behaviour of certain individuals at munches, who have then gone on to arrange their own has really had me worried. I've been having this discussion with another in pm, but what can you do?
If you raise concerns you get shouted down and it's not down to the Mods/Mark to sort this out. the best thing is to either attend and hope for th bet or not go and have all and sundry pming to try to convince you to go or wanting to knwo the reasons.
Individuals can raise doubts about anyone and in effect get them banned from a munch/social event as well. I accept that organisers have a responsibility about this but what is likely to happen in a series of chinese whispers which may or may not spill out into the board/general spectrum.
I will also acknowledge that there are some impeccable decisions made and excellently organised Munches/Socail gatherings and although the organiser's have struggled with all kinds of stresses I haven;t attended a bad munch yet .. just one that I personaly wasn't comfortable at .. and that was nothing to do with the organisers.
C x

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Countess
Perhaps if newbies or people who want to go to a munch, but are wary, could approach those who have been here a while and have experienced munches before to meet up first and walk in with them and keep close until they feel comfortably then maybe this would go some way to reassuring them. I know this worked for me and easy, as a lovely couple on here did that for us.

This is a really good idea. I went to my first munch with WBB as my official "hand holder". Truth be told, we were both as terrified as each other, but now I'm fairly confident in saying that either of us would feel perfectly comfortable in attending munches as single females (ok, I know WBB doesn't actually fall under that category now, but you know what I mean)
For the record, if any single fems (who fulfil the munch criteria and haven't been to a munch before) want to talk to someone and have an official hand-holder, I'll happily take on that role for them - as long as they can prove to me that they are actually a fem and not some fly-boy looking for a way in lol

9 Apr 2005

Quote by Countess
Perhaps if newbies or people who want to go to a munch, but are wary, could approach those who have been here a while and have experienced munches before to meet up first and walk in with them and keep close until they feel comfortably then maybe this would go some way to reassuring them. I know this worked for me and easy, as a lovely couple on here did that for us.

Only problem with that Countess, is: what if the people they arrange to meet and go in with, are the type of people who do the uninvited grabbing/groping/snogging. You were lucky in that the couple you arranged to walk in with, were not that type of people. Others might not be so lucky and it's very difficult on here sometimes, to tell who the 'right' ones are.
Edited to say that I do agree with you in principle.

9 Apr 2005

Well bloody hell :shock: I never expected this much of a response
I can't pick out all the comments I would like to go back on because there are too many. But comments on the regulars and mods being as bad as everyone, true, I get my tits out anywhere rolleyes

from in the house to in Tesco's or a night club. That is my choice and I admitted that in my first post.
I put my hands down someone's trousers at the Peterborough social but only when invited. I snogged someone when invited.
To be sexually assaulted at a social gathering is just not on. Many have said that you'd just push someone away if that happened, tell the organiser or get security, well you have no flucking idea how you are going to feel until put in that position. I am infuriated that many seem to think it is that easy. I thought I would be strong enough to defend myself but I was too shocked and almost didn't believe what had happened. For some that has little confidence in themselves it can knock you for six and it is not always possible to know how to deal with it at the time.
It doesn't have stop you from enjoying the rest of the evening but when you wake up the next day disgusted at the situation you were put in, you feel like you won't be believed because you are a swinger.
I am not saying that we shouldn't snog people or grope if both parties agree. I am saying we have to seriously think about how far past flirting things are allowed to go. At the Notts munch I saw a BJ and a male "stroking" a male. My personal opinion is that this is a step too far. I know I've said I get my tits out anywhere so you might think I am contradicting myself but FFS you see that daily in the new papers or on a beach. I also think munches should get back into being an independent gathering away from parties. Having the option of wandering to one of a few clubs is fine but mixing them is blurring the edges way too much for my liking. It encourages people to get in the mood for playing later.
As for Roger's comments about people obviously still liking munches or people wouldn't be putting their name on the guest lists. I have had my name on the mini Leicester munch for a while, before the last social event I went to. I have yet to confirm, as with the Notts one and I have not put my name on any other SH event as yet.
I loved munches, I even arranged one fairly early when munches were becoming popular and I have been to a number of them now. I still do recommend them to newbie's and I will continue to do so because it is still the best way to meet people for future fun. I had enjoyed many SH events and thoroughly enjoyed meeting my friends and new people.
But

Quote by Ice Pie
Rushing up to someone and grabbing them before they have a chance to indicate their intentions, is not on because it gives them no chance to prevent it except by actually complaining, or even by using physical force to deter such advances. It is up to the person making the approach to make eye contact and give the other person a chance to respond.
Body language is very expressive, but not when you don't give the other person's body a chance to speak.

We have to get the balance right as to not alienate some members.
Dawn

9 Apr 2005

Quote by fabio grooverider
if that is the way and the road that you want to go down then i admire you for your convictions... but in essence in changing your munch into a meet, you can set the terms and condictions,
what i am deperatly trying to avoid is down the road it may come down to munch organiser to determine the extent to which the rules are applied.. and that is one thing i would rather not have, hence the tighening of munch defination.. or general giudelines for what we can and can't do in regard to behaviour..... if that becomes clearer at least we are playing by the same set of rules and you then have a clearer distinction between meet, munch and afterparty....

Actually Sean what we will be trying to do is to get back to the original definition of the munch as is set out on the site.... If this means we have to name it a social party rather than a munch so be it....
Just to follow on from what Angel said, we have no intention of allowing others to cloud our judgement on who can and cannot be invited... If anyone has any reason to object to someone attending then they had better have evidence as to the reason why... I have a fair idea who will be invited and who wont, but I am not prepared to say on open forum.
Shireen