I really do not want this to descend into a slanging match, however I again feel the need to respond to what has been said. I believe we all the right to our opinions, however I also reserve the right to try and change oyur mind If I think you are wrong. Without this none of us would have any rights at al, as we simply would have accepted 'our lot' so to speak.
Lets start with Gay Christians. No, (well if you even believe in him - I don't), Jesus did not hava special pink loin cloth, and what is the point of that comment, may I ask? The reason there is a specific gay christian movement is because of the teachings of and indeed the history of the church, (pick a church, almost any church), has been and remains homophobic. Why chooce your religion and then go to practice somewhere where you cannot be yourself, have to hide who you are and listen to sermons and rants about the ungodliness of gays. If you sincerely believe, as many christians do, that god loves us all, and you want to practice your faith, well then of course you set up your own, that not only gay people but also more tolerant and accepting christians also go to.
I think that some people here do not fundamentally understand the concept of oppression and how this differ from discrimination, and what the significance is. Oppression is something which is inherent in everyday society, has been there throughout history, is still here now, and is not simply to do with actual rights and legislation but also to do with attitudes and peoples place in society. Women have faces oppression as women - called sexism, LGB people have faced oppression as a result of their sexuality and Black and ethnic minority people have faced oppression as a result of their race/colour of their skin - called racism.
If you accpet this view point, and I do, then men canot face sexism, white people cannot face racism and straight people cannot face oppression with regards to sexuality. Now I don't mean that these people cannot be discriminated against and for those reasons, they of course can, but this is not oprression, this is discrimination - why - because it is not something which is absolutely inherent in society, for the most part these groups are the norm, the majority, hold the power balance within society, do not face day in day challenges only as a result of their sexuality/ethnicity/gender. They are not subject to stereotyping, do not face lesser treatment under law and haven't done either, do not face institutionalised, (ie it goes through every level of society from the police, to the media, to education, the workplace etc ) racism, sexism or homophobia - I hope this makes some sense, but if not I would be happy to meet and discuss this in person, as it rather a complex theory.
You talk about black people and self segregation - don't be absurd! Black poeple have not sought to segregate themselves from society, however it has taken many many years for them to gain any semblance of equal right under the law in this country, and even with those laws in place they are not equal. Still worse off in education, more likely to be stopped by the police, still targeted by groups such as BNP, still subject to attack, a young man was killed not so long ago in Liverpool you may remember - his crime - the colour of his skin! Talking about legal right is all well and good, but if there is not the mechanisms in place to enfoce these legal rights then they are no good to anyone. If the institutions that enforce these laws are themselves racist etc, then are they realy doing an effective job, and did it ever occur to you that legal equality does not give you eqal standing within society, not until every barrier has been smashed away, when we look at each other and see each other and not a skin colour / a sexuality etc then, legal equality isn't quite franky worth the paper it's written on!
There have been equal rights laws around gender and race since the 1970's - but are seriously trying to tell me that women and ethnic monorities are equal! Thats bull! Women still earn 2/3's of what men earn, still earn less for doing the same job, still face violence, a woman is sexually assualted something like avery two minutes in this country, women who press charges for /assualt are still subject to ideas of did she ask for it - what was she wearing etc, women are still under-represented in all institutions of society - law, workplace, parliament, judiciary, police etc. Black people and those from other ethnic minorities still face attack, prejudice, have to move from areas for fear of their lives, face horrific experiences in the workplace, are under-represented in all institutions etc - and they have had legal equality for years! Legal equality doesn't give you anything unless there are ways to enforce, and even then, I don't want something that is given and can be taken awat again, I want to see a societal change, where the legal is nothing but a back-up just in case!
If caucasian people demanded a special day there would be outrage - quite rightly so! I am caucasian and gave never been oppressed as a reslut of the colour of my skin! Yes I've had comments etc, but day in day out the majority of people I see are the same colour as me, on tv, in magazines, etc as it was very eloquently put by rodger - everyday is caucasian day, and so for the same reasons we don't need a special day for caucasian people, niether do we for heterosexuals or for men.
As a veteran equal rights campaigner, I would like to point out I have never asked for more than was my due! We don't want extra rights, we wanted the same rights, and once we have those, then we'll work on setling into society and taking our place alongside the rest of you, without fear, without intolerance and without discrimination. I am not settling for second best, I want the same rights, I don't want to not be attacked for my sexuality becasue a law says you can't, but because everyone recognises quite simply that its wrong! That is no more and no less than a heterosexual male or famale has, not just about the law but about society and attitudes.
By the way, incase your interested, the laws regarding a whole host of sexuality issues are extremely new, as I said about race and gender legislation - it came in in the 70's and we're still not there yet with regards to that, what makes you think legislation which has been in a for a few years will make huge difference straight away.
You say that "sexual orientation is not something that should confer special status upon a specific group of people as it then becomes detrimental to other people who don't belong to that dempgraphic section of society"
I never wanted, nor asked for special status. In all my campigning years, when I've marched and rallied, and met with ministers, and sent post cards and visited MP's, when I've been attacked when I've led and when I've followed, I have never once asked for more than was my due, and if you see that as being detrimental to other sections of society then so be it! But I would say one thing, as a campaigner, I was never going to settle for merely equality, I wanted and still want more for everybody! I don't want to be equal with men to earnm a shit wage in the same job, so I join with them and work to get an equal but higher wage for all, for example.
You say you 'don't give a shit' - well I do, and have dedicated my time, my life to chnaging this world, and ideas such as these in this thread do not help, but must be challenged, It won't be first time I hear then and it won't be the last! You did say that many women did sacrifice themselves and you respect that - did it never occur to you that so many of us still do, in one way or another - granted I've never thrown myself under a horse to propagate the equal rights agenda, but for me, my place in Pride is a liitle like that, as is it for the hundreds of thousands of lgb people who have a day where they can be out and simply be themselves!
Well another huge rant, and I'm sorry for it, but I will keep on posting as long as the views I don't agree keep appearing! That is afterall, my right!
anymore I'm such a tart.
