Please dont take this wrong way...........

8 Jan 2005

I've read everyone's posts carefully and would just like to say that I have the utmost respect for everyones' views here, and of course in particular those of you ladies.
May I just reiterate my earlier view that it seems to be an issue that always has very individual circumstances, so no two situations will ever be exactly the same?
Isn't it so heart-warming to be able to have a serious debate here, click onto another thread and have a laugh and a joke, click the next one and find yet something else that takes you off in another direction etc., etc,.?(You know what I'm trying to say).
One big happy family and all that.....................xx
Swinging Heaven rocks! :lol2:

8 Jan 2005

Bang on Eagerslut, your right.

8 Jan 2005

I fell pregnant at 20 and I did consider a termination, but I didn't.
My opinion is that every woman has a choice to decide what is right for her and her circumstances at that time.
I know of several people who can had terminations and from their prospective, although it was right for them at that time in their life, their decision has haunted them since. That is something that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
Each to their own.

8 Jan 2005

Personally, I couldnt have an abortion. I dont think I could live with it on my conscience!!! Bu tI wouldnt condem someone who did it.

8 Jan 2005

I'm in full agreement with those who believe in the woman's right to choose. Years ago I spent several years working with children in care, in homes and day centres. Some of the kids I worked with were desperately unloved and unwanted, and ever since I've believed that ideally every child born should be a wanted child. Anything else really is a recipe for human misery. It is very alarming to read about this new movement for so-called "foetal rights" becoming popular, mainly in the States.
Mike.

8 Jan 2005

It is not something I could personally go through.. it was considered last time round (and ex tried to force that decision on me) I think that anyone who goes through it, whatever their reasons, must be a lot stronger than I could ever be. I do get very pissed off at the pro-life protesters who wait outside clinics giving women crap for going through it. I think that is the last thing they would need. A very close friend of mine went through an abortion 9 years ago and she's still 'raw' about it now. Every circumstance is different and in some it is for the best, and others its an 'easy way out'. Very difficult subject.

8 Jan 2005

Quote by MikeNorth
I'm in full agreement with those who believe in the woman's right to choose. Years ago I spent several years working with children in care, in homes and day centres. Some of the kids I worked with were desperately unloved and unwanted, and ever since I've believed that ideally every child born should be a wanted child. Anything else really is a recipe for human misery. It is very alarming to read about this new movement for so-called "foetal rights" becoming popular, mainly in the States.
Mike.

I was raised, not by the woman who gave birth to me, but by a woman who wanted me and loved me. Are you saying that because my genetic mother didn't love me I should have been killed? Is it your opinion that I should be disposed of because I represent what YOU define as "human misery"?
Looks like you're making a blanket judgement, but the fact is, circumstances alter cases.

8 Jan 2005

Ouch, and good point! Never afraid to confront the delicates as always Ice biggrin

Am a little concerned that this debate could trigger raw emotion among those here who have had to choose abortion, and still have to come to terms with it.
Let`s tread gently shall we?
Venusxxx

8 Jan 2005

Quote by VenusnMars
Ouch, and good point! Never afraid to confront the delicates as always Ice

Am a little concerned that this debate could trigger raw emotion among those here who have had to choose abortion, and still have to come to terms with it.
Let`s tread gently shall we?
Venusxxx

It's an emotive topic Venus, and I'm prepared for the backlash from those whose view differs from mine. We're not going to go to war over it and tomorrow we'll talk about something else. smile

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
Are you saying that because my genetic mother didn't love me I should have been killed? mis
.

I just want to make a couple of comments. Ice - your birth mother may have loved you so much that she gave you the best life she could, by letting someone else raise you. Now I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances and would not pry - I'm just offering another view. Yes, some children were given up because of lack of love/care/will but an awful lot more were given up for the exact opposite reason. Watch the documentary tomorrow on ITV and see for yourself.
On the abortion thing - my stand is pro-choice. What is right for one person is wrong for another and the choice should always be available. I would neither condemn nor comend a woman for whatever choice she makes. And neither should others.
:P

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Jags
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
WHAT JUDGEMENT FFS - you really are becoming a pain in the neck you know. I've had just about enough of your crass comments lately. Read what I said properly before you write such rubbish.
mad

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Jags
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
WHAT JUDGEMENT FFS - you really are becoming a pain in the neck you know. I've had just about enough of your crass comments lately. Read what I said properly before you write such rubbish.
mad

When the argument is lost, the abuse begins. rolleyes

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
Observation more like Ice Pie. Calm down.
I'm another member of this disposable society. Raised by the state from the age of 4. Societies shame. Not just cos folks fuck with their kids heads, but they fuck their kids too.
Obortion would have been the kinder choice I think.

8 Jan 2005

Brave man! lol

It would be nice if all cases turned out as happily as yours. The choice your birth mother made was good for you, and provided a childlesss couple with...um....you :shock:
OMG THOSE POOR PEOPLE!! wink

Seriously though, your point is a good one, adoption is an option which I feel should be made more accessable. The criteria prospective parents are expected to meet, are far more rigourous than those who can have their children naturally are expected to meet! Sometimes it can end in tragedy, when the birth mother demands her child back, and I wish there were an easy answer there too.
I`m going to give up now, I can`t compete with the damn cat!
Venusxxx

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Libra-Love
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
Observation more like Ice Pie. Calm down.
I am perfectly calm. Not my fault if others are losing their temper just because someone doesn't agree with them. dunno

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
WHAT JUDGEMENT FFS - you really are becoming a pain in the neck you know. I've had just about enough of your crass comments lately. Read what I said properly before you write such rubbish.
mad

When the argument is lost, the abuse begins. rolleyes

Not only the abuse!
now argue properly - where is the judgement?? Tell me so I can see it - I 'offered an opinion' .
Oh, saying you are a pain in the neck wasn't meant to be abuse/abusive, merely a personal observation. I can be much more abusive if necessary.
Now - where's the judgement?

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Libra-Love
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
Observation more like Ice Pie. Calm down.
biggrin

:D :D

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Jags
I know that I know nothing of your own personal circumstances

Probably best to keep your judgement to yourself then, eh?
WHAT JUDGEMENT FFS - you really are becoming a pain in the neck you know. I've had just about enough of your crass comments lately. Read what I said properly before you write such rubbish.
mad

When the argument is lost, the abuse begins. rolleyes

Not only the abuse!
now argue properly - where is the judgement?? Tell me so I can see it - I 'offered an opinion' .
Oh, saying you are a pain in the neck wasn't meant to be abuse/abusive, merely a personal observation. I can be much more abusive if necessary.
Now - where's the judgement?
You basically said that it's always right, that it's purely down to what the mother wants. That is a blanket judgement. What I'm saying is sometimes it's right and sometimes it isn't.

8 Jan 2005

In the sixtys it was socially unaceptable to be young unmarried mother and lot of young frighten girls were pressurised into adopion ,abortion by familys church general do gooders,
this dose not mean they did,nt love there child, and many spend years agoniseing over the choice they were forced to make, and both sometimes spend years trying to find each other, beleave as law stands at min only the child can contact the parent some have happy endings some don,t confused

:

8 Jan 2005

You basically said that it's always right, that it's purely down to what the mother wants. That is a blanket judgement. What I'm saying is sometimes it's right and sometimes it isn't.

No I didn't say anything like that at all.
I said that a birth mother may have given a child up for adoption BECAUSE she loved that child and knew that a better life was ahead than the one she could offer (well I used less words than that but that is the long version). I NEVER offered the judgement that it was right/wrong so please go and read what I said again.
rolleyes

PS in edit - and what is said in the post above this is totally correct.

8 Jan 2005

I agree with you Jags, many people love their child so much that they feel the only solution is to give them up for adoption. I really dont know which one would be the hardest to bear. If the child is aborted early, or carrying the child for 9 months, giving birth and possibly holding the child, then having it taken away poss never to be seen again. Then thinking what are they doing now? are they married have children of their own? What about the people who give up a child and then go on to have more children that are kept? How do you tell them they have siblings?
I truly have no idea, only my personal experiances.

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Jags

You basically said that it's always right, that it's purely down to what the mother wants. That is a blanket judgement. What I'm saying is sometimes it's right and sometimes it isn't.

No I didn't say anything like that at all.
You said you are "pro-choice". I find the pro-choice and pro-life arguments equally weak. They both fail to recognise that circumstances alter cases. Sometimes termination is necessary, and sometimes it is morally wrong. I speak as the father of a child who was disposed of for the sake of personal convenience and for no other reason. Nobody will ever convince me that there is any justification for that.

8 Jan 2005

Quote by honeyriderx
I agree with you Jags, many people love their child so much that they feel the only solution is to give them up for adoption. I really dont know which one would be the hardest to bear. If the child is aborted early, or carrying the child for 9 months, giving birth and possibly holding the child, then having it taken away poss never to be seen again. Then thinking what are they doing now? are they married have children of their own? What about the people who give up a child and then go on to have more children that are kept? How do you tell them they have siblings?
I truly have no idea, only my personal experiances.

Thanks. :P

8 Jan 2005

You know I love it when it takes me so long to write a post that by the time I`ve posted it I`m managing to ramble off in a completely different direction and so manage to avoid the traffic accident surprised

Like a doddering old lady me...
Now I`m definately not touching this one :shock:
Leave you guys to it, later.
Venusxxx

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie

You basically said that it's always right, that it's purely down to what the mother wants. That is a blanket judgement. What I'm saying is sometimes it's right and sometimes it isn't.

No I didn't say anything like that at all.
You said you are "pro-choice". I find the pro-choice and pro-life arguments equally weak. They both fail to recognise that circumstances alter cases. Sometimes termination is necessary, and sometimes it is morally wrong. I speak as the father of a child who was disposed of for the sake of personal convenience and for no other reason. Nobody will ever convince me that there is any justification for that.
Ah - that was different paragraph and was about abortion, not about being brought up by someone other than your birth mother. rolleyes

:roll: Argument went off on a tangent there Ice cos you quoted from the adoption paragraph.
The issue of abortion is a more emotive one and one for which I think there will never be a correct answer. I am going to opt out of that one - feeble, yes I admit it, but I can see all the views and sympathise with many.
Oh, and I really tried very hard NOT to make a judgement.

8 Jan 2005

:giveup: Too many raw nerves in this one I think. Sorry if I've upset anyone, think I'd better butt out now.

8 Jan 2005

Quote by Ice Pie
:giveup: Too many raw nerves in this one I think. Sorry if I've upset anyone, think I'd better butt out now.

8 Jan 2005

and they all lived happily ever after rolleyes

8 Jan 2005

Im far too offensive a person to discuss abortion , but I would say this that if my guess is right and the majority of SH members are between their thirties and forties then we should take note before we answer and wonder just how many of us would even be here if were not for teenage pregnancy .