My friends and i were talking about Eastenders the other day and we got onto the subject of Demi, the teenage mother and how she kept her baby despite being so young. Now my friend said under no circumstances would she have kept the baby, nor would she let her daughter have kept the baby as well. Well from that we got onto the subject of termination. One friend said it was murder, one friend said it wasnt, and another was saying she would never do it, no matter WHAT the circumstances, who the father was, and how the baby was conceived.
So i was wondering what everyone elses views are on the subject. i do not under ANY circumstances want this thread to come into politics, outrage, full blown arguments and sniping, i've put a lot of effort into making it sound thoughtful and i dont want it spoilt by other people. so PLEASE think before you put an answer. thank you.
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Please dont take this wrong way...........
Sex God
I think it's one of those issues that can't be generalised about. In my opinion, the circumstances are going to be a very individual thing and the right and best thing to do will depend entirely on those circumstances.
(Being serious for once) :lol2:
(Being serious for once) :lol2:
Its a hugely emotive subject so may be difficult for it not to get personal.
My views are that each person should have the right to determine the own existence and that no one has the right to to take that away from you. If a termiantion is right for a particular person then so be it. I could never criticise someone for taking that decision. Having said that, in a previous relationship my girlfriend thought she was pregnant and was determined to have it terminated. I have to say that it was something I had huge problems dealing with. It was a false alarm and so I was spared having to. But It made me realise just how emotive a subject it is.
My views are that each person should have the right to determine the own existence and that no one has the right to to take that away from you. If a termiantion is right for a particular person then so be it. I could never criticise someone for taking that decision. Having said that, in a previous relationship my girlfriend thought she was pregnant and was determined to have it terminated. I have to say that it was something I had huge problems dealing with. It was a false alarm and so I was spared having to. But It made me realise just how emotive a subject it is.
Again it's one of those topics one can speculate about, but until you yourself are in that situation you don't really know how you would react.
Though I do believe in a woman's right to choose whether to continue with a pregnancy or not I have always believed that for me, personally, there would only ever be one choice. Keep it.
Until I found myself in that very situation.
I'm still at the *ignore it, it's all to raw* stage to even begin to anylise or dissect the rights or wrongs of my choice of a termination.
There's a baby I'll never get to meet.
Though I do believe in a woman's right to choose whether to continue with a pregnancy or not I have always believed that for me, personally, there would only ever be one choice. Keep it.
Until I found myself in that very situation.
I'm still at the *ignore it, it's all to raw* stage to even begin to anylise or dissect the rights or wrongs of my choice of a termination.
There's a baby I'll never get to meet.
Quote by Eagerslut9Spot on the there is to say.
I think it's one of those issues that can't be generalised about. In my opinion, the circumstances are going to be a very individual thing and the right and best thing to do will depend entirely on those circumstances.
(Being serious for once) :lol2:
although personally i am against terminations i do respevt that under some circumstances the lady would rather terminate and in some extreme cases i do appreciate that it is prob for the best
my one main concern RE terminations is that if they females decide to tell the father of the said child should he not get a say in the matter??? yes i know its her body but it wasnt possible with out him?
sorry just my views
my one main concern RE terminations is that if they females decide to tell the father of the said child should he not get a say in the matter??? yes i know its her body but it wasnt possible with out him?
sorry just my views
No matter what anyone says - the decision to terminate is NEVER an easy one - and one that stays with you for the rest of your life! I have had two terminations - and neither was easy!!.
Yes - the second was dicsussed with the father. We both felt that a termination was for the best.
a) I was living in one small room with hardly any income
b) he was married with a family.
I could NEVER have gone through chidlbirth and given my child up for adoption.
But I can tell you it was the HARDEST decision I ever had to make in my entire life.
But on that occasion at least I had the right to make the choice we both made.
My first termination was when I was young and at university. The father wouldn't have given a damn what happened - I can assure you. But that in that instance I didn't have a choice. Abortion was illegal in that country. I had a back street abortion and ended up almost dying.
Oh - and before anyone starts saying "2!!! Should've been more careful" - condoms were used on both occasions!!!
So - yes an emotive subject. All I can say is that it is my body & my life - and I have the right to decide over both. And only I will know just how hard a decision it is to make. I have often regretted both. But i also know that at the times I made those decisions - I made the right ones.
Yes - the second was dicsussed with the father. We both felt that a termination was for the best.
a) I was living in one small room with hardly any income
b) he was married with a family.
I could NEVER have gone through chidlbirth and given my child up for adoption.
But I can tell you it was the HARDEST decision I ever had to make in my entire life.
But on that occasion at least I had the right to make the choice we both made.
My first termination was when I was young and at university. The father wouldn't have given a damn what happened - I can assure you. But that in that instance I didn't have a choice. Abortion was illegal in that country. I had a back street abortion and ended up almost dying.
Oh - and before anyone starts saying "2!!! Should've been more careful" - condoms were used on both occasions!!!
So - yes an emotive subject. All I can say is that it is my body & my life - and I have the right to decide over both. And only I will know just how hard a decision it is to make. I have often regretted both. But i also know that at the times I made those decisions - I made the right ones.
Hmmmm. well I found myself pregnant at 16. I was given the option by my very loving parents of them bringing the baby up themselves and me going back to further education. I declined and ended up marrying the father and having a further 2 children with him, with 15 years of an unhappy marriiage thrown in for good measure. I couldn't possibly say now if my decision was right or wrong, it was just my decision at the time and it, and the following years of an abusive relationship, shaped the strong person I am today. I look at my daughter and my sons now and cant imagine life without them. But I wholeheartedly support a womans right to have a termination, if she so wishes. And she doesn't need an excuse., its her body to do with as she sees fit.
Sex God
I have extremely strong views on this, and some personal history.
All I'll say in here is that I believe there are circumstances in which it can be justified, and circumstances in which it cannot.
All I'll say in here is that I believe there are circumstances in which it can be justified, and circumstances in which it cannot.
I dont want this to sound flippant or detract from the subject matter to far, but i hope by reading some of these experiences etc that it will bring to the forefront that how important contraception is.
Today so many people think the reson to use condoms would be to prevent STD and think at least a pregnancy can be dealt with ( in what ever way that is, ie termination).
A warning to all men, if you think you/they should have a right in the decision of termination as it took two to concive then double protect and wear a condom, that's a easy desision, alot easier than deciding on terminations.
Before anyone jumps on me and says condoms and contraceptions are not 100% reliable i agree , but are you the ones who dont look both ways before crossing the road and dont wear seat belts in cars then complaine when knocked down etc? surely its easier to take precautions.
just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own, and this goes with the terminate or not aswell.
be happy , be safe and have fun xxxxxxxxx femxxx
Today so many people think the reson to use condoms would be to prevent STD and think at least a pregnancy can be dealt with ( in what ever way that is, ie termination).
A warning to all men, if you think you/they should have a right in the decision of termination as it took two to concive then double protect and wear a condom, that's a easy desision, alot easier than deciding on terminations.
Before anyone jumps on me and says condoms and contraceptions are not 100% reliable i agree , but are you the ones who dont look both ways before crossing the road and dont wear seat belts in cars then complaine when knocked down etc? surely its easier to take precautions.
just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own, and this goes with the terminate or not aswell.
be happy , be safe and have fun xxxxxxxxx femxxx
Hmm where to begin?...... I have sadly been in this very situation at the age of 16 and was advised by parents and Drs to terminate, But I have to say that not a day goes by that I dont think about the child that was. Now as the mother of a special needs child, I can FULLY understand many aspects of termination and EVERY case is differant. When pregnant with my last child I had a cvs test to see if this child had the same condition as my other and thankfuly it didnt BUT I can honestly say I have no idea as to what I would have done if it had. I totaly adore my children and being special makes my child the very person he is, I could never imagine him any different. So there really is no hard and fast rule and no one could every be critisied for their actions as I'm sure they are always fully though through.
So with that, I'll leave this as it is as I dont really know what else to say. A very sensitive subject.
So with that, I'll leave this as it is as I dont really know what else to say. A very sensitive subject.
This is one where I don't know where I sit, as others have said every situation is different so I will recant 2 situations from my youth. (Neither involving me directly, but I knew the parties involved)
In one the mother was advised by life, and chose an adoption option. From the moment of the birth until when I lost track of them they still live with that call, worrying, wanting to find the child, etc.
In the other very early on they chose termination, not pleasant, but a few years later she was back on with her life.
In one the mother was advised by life, and chose an adoption option. From the moment of the birth until when I lost track of them they still live with that call, worrying, wanting to find the child, etc.
In the other very early on they chose termination, not pleasant, but a few years later she was back on with her life.
As a male with a checkered history it is my belief that the woman with her partner has the right to choose.
However, should she choose the right to keep the child she should not expect the state to keep it, it is down to her family to provide financialy or she should offer the child for adoption.
I realise this sounds very victorian but some people feel that society owes them a living.
I do appreciate I will get a lot of stick from the lady members but Sue also agrees with this view along with lots of friends when itt is discussed
However, should she choose the right to keep the child she should not expect the state to keep it, it is down to her family to provide financialy or she should offer the child for adoption.
I realise this sounds very victorian but some people feel that society owes them a living.
I do appreciate I will get a lot of stick from the lady members but Sue also agrees with this view along with lots of friends when itt is discussed
My own view is that women should have the choice whether to go through with a pregnancy or not. It is an incredibly complicated matter, there are all kinds of circumstances which could make a pregnancy good or very bad news.
Very young girls I would discourage from having a baby but in the end it is their decision. I know a woman who had a child from and she is so messed up now that I feel it was wrong for her to carry on with the pregnancy but I'm sure she loves her child without any resentment. That doesn't sound exactly like what I am getting at, she was not wrong for having the baby, the situation was wrong for her mental health.
Disability in the child wouldn't be a valid reason for me, but would be in other peoples cases. There are way too many reasons for and against on this subject so I think the best thing would be for me to say that I am wholeheartedly pro-choice on this matter.
Very young girls I would discourage from having a baby but in the end it is their decision. I know a woman who had a child from and she is so messed up now that I feel it was wrong for her to carry on with the pregnancy but I'm sure she loves her child without any resentment. That doesn't sound exactly like what I am getting at, she was not wrong for having the baby, the situation was wrong for her mental health.
Disability in the child wouldn't be a valid reason for me, but would be in other peoples cases. There are way too many reasons for and against on this subject so I think the best thing would be for me to say that I am wholeheartedly pro-choice on this matter.
Another topic Denise, one where there is no answer. If you don't help you make the innocent child suffer, if you do help people abuse the system to get preferential treatment / housing.
I have seen this happen with a friend of mine taken in, used, then dropped when he was not earning enough to support his girlfriends drinking and clubbing. She now has a 3 bed house, 3 kids from different fathers and lives with her sister on benefits.
Then again what else can society do? We can't stand by and let the kids suffer, we can't even judge peoples motives for getting pregnant (yes it takes 2 to tango, but men can be duped into unprotected sex easy enough). No answers here, just more questions...
I have seen this happen with a friend of mine taken in, used, then dropped when he was not earning enough to support his girlfriends drinking and clubbing. She now has a 3 bed house, 3 kids from different fathers and lives with her sister on benefits.
Then again what else can society do? We can't stand by and let the kids suffer, we can't even judge peoples motives for getting pregnant (yes it takes 2 to tango, but men can be duped into unprotected sex easy enough). No answers here, just more questions...
Quote by DeniseBabe
I think its one of those topics where no one will see eye to eye, the way we think about such a subject seems to stem on what we have dealt with personally....... which is what makes us who we are today and i guess we are stronger people for dealing with the ups and downs we have incurred.
Hear hear
Like the original topic there is no answer for everyone, just a battle to find the solutions for a particular circumstance. Having seen two very different outcomes to situations where termination was an option for me, I can whole heartedly say that I am glad women have the choice. I have no regrets with the choices I made, and because the option was there I think it helped with the emotional side of things.
When I became pregnant at 19 my poor mum was devastated and begged me to consider a termination, but I was sure I wanted to see it through - 14 years on, one messy bedroom, smelly armpits and grumpy teenager later, I have! It has been difficult, as was the other decision I made, but having the option was the important bit.
Still think it's a thing to tackle even more at school level - I considered myself to be a reasonably well informed girl and I still tripped up. My boy is sooooo aware of 'the condom drawer' at home in an effort to drill 'planning families' in - just hope he is getting the right messages!
Shoves soap box back under bed, and gets back on bed where she belongs!
Kisses all
Cathy x
When I became pregnant at 19 my poor mum was devastated and begged me to consider a termination, but I was sure I wanted to see it through - 14 years on, one messy bedroom, smelly armpits and grumpy teenager later, I have! It has been difficult, as was the other decision I made, but having the option was the important bit.
Still think it's a thing to tackle even more at school level - I considered myself to be a reasonably well informed girl and I still tripped up. My boy is sooooo aware of 'the condom drawer' at home in an effort to drill 'planning families' in - just hope he is getting the right messages!
Shoves soap box back under bed, and gets back on bed where she belongs!
Kisses all
Cathy x
Quote by tallnhairy
Another topic Denise, one where there is no answer. If you don't help you make the innocent child suffer, if you do help people abuse the system to get preferential treatment / housing.
I have seen this happen with a friend of mine taken in, used, then dropped when he was not earning enough to support his girlfriends drinking and clubbing. She now has a 3 bed house, 3 kids from different fathers and lives with her sister on benefits.
Then again what else can society do? We can't stand by and let the kids suffer, we can't even judge peoples motives for getting pregnant (yes it takes 2 to tango, but men can be duped into unprotected sex easy enough). No answers here, just more questions...
So perhaps its the states right to remove those children and put them up for adoption, then some of the poor couples who cannot have children would get the opportunity.
It is strange that when it was regarded as not the done thing for girls to get pregnant before marriage there was less in the way of illigitamate pregnancy.
Very true accidents do happen but the fact is that there is more availability of contraceptives in its many different forms.
This still brings me back to the fact that abortion on demand should be the right of all females, with the proviso that should they not take this option the state should not be responsible for the family
I rue the day that mothers are forced to give up thier babies because they are not in a position to support them financially. Far too much of a terrifying thought to have someone `decide` whose being a leech and whose life has simply taken an unlucky turn. Better these mothers are offered training and jobs which offer childcare support, or even better, home employment.
Many mothers do manage to get access to education and training at the expense of society, but once they are out the otherside, also manage to give much back to society.
There is no easy answer.
Venusxxx
Many mothers do manage to get access to education and training at the expense of society, but once they are out the otherside, also manage to give much back to society.
There is no easy answer.
Venusxxx
Sex God
this is such a complicated issue, and whichever side you fall on, it feels wrong to advocate it . . .
a catholic education doesn't help here, and shitting myself at 17 not knowing which way we should go doesn't help either. thankfully that decision was made for us . . . the pregnancy ended before we had to make a choice. thank fuck. that was bad enough. and the mere thought that it was a relief to lose it was kinda tough!
at the end of the day, i have to trust that mother's know best . . and those mothers have the absolute right to choose just how far towards motherhood they go. to deny control over your own body, and the quality of life of mother and child, seems to deny the whole idea of responsible motherhood. the state has no role whatsoever in the choices here, and to attempt to legislate control of women's bodies for personal / religious belief is pretty damn sick.
the US is trying to go down the anti-abortion road again . . and yet in the same breath, it is bitching about supporting those mothers and children on welfare, which is kinda a consequence of denying that right to choose eh? icon_
it can only be a personal choice, no matter what.
oh . . and i'm really not sure that's true. sex was invented a damn long time ago, as was pregnancy! maybe society was just a bit better at covering it? look at the convents / homes for unmarried mothers / trips away to aunties elsewhere / workhouses / back street abortions etc etc etc. i doubt the statistics, if there were any, would support that argument!
n x x x
a catholic education doesn't help here, and shitting myself at 17 not knowing which way we should go doesn't help either. thankfully that decision was made for us . . . the pregnancy ended before we had to make a choice. thank fuck. that was bad enough. and the mere thought that it was a relief to lose it was kinda tough!
at the end of the day, i have to trust that mother's know best . . and those mothers have the absolute right to choose just how far towards motherhood they go. to deny control over your own body, and the quality of life of mother and child, seems to deny the whole idea of responsible motherhood. the state has no role whatsoever in the choices here, and to attempt to legislate control of women's bodies for personal / religious belief is pretty damn sick.
the US is trying to go down the anti-abortion road again . . and yet in the same breath, it is bitching about supporting those mothers and children on welfare, which is kinda a consequence of denying that right to choose eh? icon_
it can only be a personal choice, no matter what.
It is strange that when it was regarded as not the done thing for girls to get pregnant before marriage there was less in the way of illigitamate pregnancy.
oh . . and i'm really not sure that's true. sex was invented a damn long time ago, as was pregnancy! maybe society was just a bit better at covering it? look at the convents / homes for unmarried mothers / trips away to aunties elsewhere / workhouses / back street abortions etc etc etc. i doubt the statistics, if there were any, would support that argument!
n x x x
Thanks all for your well thought out replies, however, the point I am trying to put accross is that I believe in the womans right to choose but when that choice is made on financial grounds rather than any thought for the future of the child thats what I find difficult to hold with.
The state should always be there to support people whether they be male or female at the time of most difficulty in their lives not when they choose to have a child knowing that the state would pick up the cost. To me that is not responsible parenting. So my point was why should society do so.
This would free up more money for the people that require aid and therefore give them more to help them in there period of need
The state should always be there to support people whether they be male or female at the time of most difficulty in their lives not when they choose to have a child knowing that the state would pick up the cost. To me that is not responsible parenting. So my point was why should society do so.
This would free up more money for the people that require aid and therefore give them more to help them in there period of need
Quote by stevio
The state should always be there to support people whether they be male or female at the time of most difficulty in their lives not when they choose to have a child knowing that the state would pick up the cost. To me that is not responsible parenting. So my point was why should society do so.
This would free up more money for the people that require aid and therefore give them more to help them in there period of need
I choose to have my child because I could not face the idea of having an abortion, and for me a connection was there from the very beginning. I couldn`t, and wouldn`t chose abortion over the `good of the state`, and neither could I give up my child after the birth. I was never a single parent, but the principle remained the same, as neither of us were working at that time.
We haven`t `chosen` to be dependant on benefits, which we have for many years, most of which has been whilst there hasbeen a wage coming into the house. I just don`t think there is a workable way of distinguishing between those who are in genuine hardship, and those who choose to put themselves in that place. I certainly don`t think it can be judged upon whether a woman decides to keep her child.
Ok, nuff of this, bedtime for me
Venusxxx
I was adopted as a very young baby in the early 70s, had termination been as readily available back then I imagine there's a good chance I wouldn't be here now BUT I don't feel termination is a bad thing, it's just impossible to have a really informed viewpoint unless you're having to face that decision yourself.
These sort of discussions always seem to bring around the "womens right to choose but the father should have a say too" comments, but in reality I'm sure that a good number of men do have a say and agree termination is the right decision.
With regard to people relying on state funding, is it right to regulate or prevent people who don't have financial security from creating a family? I see the sense in people having a family that they can afford to support but who should decide what number of children is enough? Do we then decide that someone dying of lung cancer shouldn't be given financial and medical support because they chose to smoke? That kind of reasoning should be applied in all areas if it has to exist.
No easy answers to this, I certainly don't have them
Edit: I'm not sure that illegitimate children were rarer years ago (my birth mother had two), I just think they were given up for adoption more frequently so single/unmarried mothers were less common. There's a prog on this Sunday, think it's called Lovechild on C4, I have a feeling that will prove it to be the case.
These sort of discussions always seem to bring around the "womens right to choose but the father should have a say too" comments, but in reality I'm sure that a good number of men do have a say and agree termination is the right decision.
With regard to people relying on state funding, is it right to regulate or prevent people who don't have financial security from creating a family? I see the sense in people having a family that they can afford to support but who should decide what number of children is enough? Do we then decide that someone dying of lung cancer shouldn't be given financial and medical support because they chose to smoke? That kind of reasoning should be applied in all areas if it has to exist.
No easy answers to this, I certainly don't have them
Edit: I'm not sure that illegitimate children were rarer years ago (my birth mother had two), I just think they were given up for adoption more frequently so single/unmarried mothers were less common. There's a prog on this Sunday, think it's called Lovechild on C4, I have a feeling that will prove it to be the case.
