Proud to be British

23 Jun 2008

Yes, I am proud to be British. Not just English, not just Welsh, not just Scottish or just Irish, I have them all in a generation or so and yes Swedish too. I'm proud to be British, I may bask in her glory without ever having had to lift a finger to help her and I may hang my head in shame at some of her worst excesses, but on the whole she has made the world a better place today than it would have been without her, and that is something worth having a little pride in.
Besides, who’d want to be Johnny bloody foreigner anyway? loon

23 Jun 2008

Quote by wild rose and the stag
pride comes before a fall

Not in my dictionary :P

23 Jun 2008

Quote by

All the castles the English built in Wales!!

The Normans built castles in England as well, and we, England and Wales stood side by side in the Civil Wars of the mid 1600s to win back British freedoms.
I've corrected the quote, Travis - Tune said that, not me.

23 Jun 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history, in which the nation-state has become the preferred form of societal organization, however, by no means universal. Historians use the term nationalism to refer to this historical transition and to the emergence and predominance of nationalist ideology. Nationalism is closely associated with patriotism".
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy.
I cannot understand peoples " logic " when they claim to have no national pride. It is an identity, a belonging. If you watch the last night of the proms, which by the way some people would like to see banned, that instills great national pride. The whole Britishness.
Or the wearing of the poppy for rememberance day. People bring up the slave trade but that was 200 years ago when things were so different from today.I am proud now.
If peoples morals are so high, the very people who dont think they are British or English, then if we ever get a St. Georges day as a holiday they wont want to take it I gather? There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand. I take pride in my accomplishments and I take pride in any family member's. But pride in something someone did a couple of hundred years ago? No, why should I? That isn't to say I can't say what they did is a good thing, it's just not relevant to me personally, and even if it was does that mean I can't be proud of something good that happened to happen in another country?
Nationality is just an accident of birth, it's not something I had to work for, train for or struggle for. Once again I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.
So I'm neither proud or not proud, I just happen to be here in Britain.

23 Jun 2008

Quote by Peanut
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history, in which the nation-state has become the preferred form of societal organization, however, by no means universal. Historians use the term nationalism to refer to this historical transition and to the emergence and predominance of nationalist ideology. Nationalism is closely associated with patriotism".
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy.
I cannot understand peoples " logic " when they claim to have no national pride. It is an identity, a belonging. If you watch the last night of the proms, which by the way some people would like to see banned, that instills great national pride. The whole Britishness.
Or the wearing of the poppy for rememberance day. People bring up the slave trade but that was 200 years ago when things were so different from today.I am proud now.
If peoples morals are so high, the very people who dont think they are British or English, then if we ever get a St. Georges day as a holiday they wont want to take it I gather? There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand. I take pride in my accomplishments and I take pride in any family member's. But pride in something someone did a couple of hundred years ago? No, why should I? That isn't to say I can't say what they did is a good thing, it's just not relevant to me personally, and even if it was does that mean I can't be proud of something good that happened to happen in another country?
Nationality is just an accident of birth, it's not something I had to work for, train for or struggle for. Once again I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.
So I'm neither proud or not proud, I just happen to be here in Britain.
Strange....but of course your opinion. But am glad that most do not think that way. cool

23 Jun 2008

Quote by kentswingers777
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history, in which the nation-state has become the preferred form of societal organization, however, by no means universal. Historians use the term nationalism to refer to this historical transition and to the emergence and predominance of nationalist ideology. Nationalism is closely associated with patriotism".
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy.
I cannot understand peoples " logic " when they claim to have no national pride. It is an identity, a belonging. If you watch the last night of the proms, which by the way some people would like to see banned, that instills great national pride. The whole Britishness.
Or the wearing of the poppy for rememberance day. People bring up the slave trade but that was 200 years ago when things were so different from today.I am proud now.
If peoples morals are so high, the very people who dont think they are British or English, then if we ever get a St. Georges day as a holiday they wont want to take it I gather? There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand. I take pride in my accomplishments and I take pride in any family member's. But pride in something someone did a couple of hundred years ago? No, why should I? That isn't to say I can't say what they did is a good thing, it's just not relevant to me personally, and even if it was does that mean I can't be proud of something good that happened to happen in another country?
Nationality is just an accident of birth, it's not something I had to work for, train for or struggle for. Once again I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.
So I'm neither proud or not proud, I just happen to be here in Britain.
Strange....but of course your opinion. But am glad that most do not think that way. cool

Would it make it easier if I said I was human before I was British, so strictly speaking based on your 'rules' I should be proud of every human accomplishment regardless of which country provided it. This would therefore make national pride irrelevant and illogical.

23 Jun 2008

Quote by firelizard
Ahhh but Im not "glad to be" British either...I'm just glad to "be" the be being the operative word. I'm really not bothered about whether I'm British, French, Spanish or whatever. To me my nationality is just something I "happen" to be rather than anything I want or am proud or glad of.

totally spot on! If nationality or/and religous ethics/fervour vanished would there be peace?

23 Jun 2008

I'm proud to be british just not necessarily proud of the ppl who live in it or the choices goverment make on my behalf

23 Jun 2008

Quote by Peanut
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history...
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy... There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand ... I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.

Strange....but of course your opinion.
Would it make it easier if I said I was human before I was British, so strictly speaking based on your 'rules' I should be proud of every human accomplishment regardless of which country provided it.
I've had a think about this and I think part of the reason I do feel some kind of not-exactly-pride is very much what you're saying here. We're all connected. Britain isn't a random country you were born in, it's a part of you and you're a part of it and this collective consciousness of which you are a member was a massive part of what made you you and you are a tiny part of what makes it it. Nobody said this better than John Donne, himself of course another part of the collective personality of these sceptred isles:

Quote by John Donne
"No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee."
Meditation 17, from Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions, 1624.

(Apologies if that seems a bit pretentious/knobbish to be putting in literary quotes on a swingers' forum, but it's just that that's one of my favourite things that anyone has ever written and I thought it was actually kind of relevant this time. On a completely different note, how far removed is this from Th*tcher, in her role as Prime Minister for Christ's sake, saying "There is no such thing as society"? loon

)
Obviously Donne and Peanut were talking about the entire human species, but I feel that it also extends down to the levels of nation, region, city, community, family and self*. You have a right to feel some sense of pride in the achievements of your society, as much as you have a duty to hold its actions up to scrutiny and an responsibility to feel remorse for its transgressions. I feel that the same is true of the whole human species - we should feel proud that we've been able to build the pyramids, invent the lightbulb and cure all manner of diseases, in the same way that we should feel ashamed of the holocaust and the atom bomb, and the fact that people are STILL starving.
Not that we should go around constantly wringing our hands, but it's certainly wrong to say that the slave trade was 200 years ago and is nothing to do with modern Britain. If we're going to base any part of our individual or collective identities on good things our country did in the past then we have to also recognise the bad things.
Patriotism is (literally) a sense of allegiance to one's fatherland. Nationalism is something different and quite scary; Nationalism is "my country is always right and never wrong" or "all other countries are intrinsically inferior to my own" or "it's quite right and appropriate for my country to shit all over all the other countries because foreign people frankly don't matter". Let's not forget that Nationalism was the other ingredient in National Socialism (Nazism), that turned Socialism, an essentially noble and loving if a little simplistic and perhaps misguided idea, into something totally evil.
There's a thin line between Nationalism, which is potentially terrifying, and patriotism, which is probably not too dangerous as long as it doesn't cross that line. I think that the line probably is the ability to recognise that your country can be wrong as well as right.

Quote by Mr-Powers
Then perhaps we should be proud that we were one of the first if not the first to make slavery illegal within the British Empire,and that the Navy saved thousand of africans being shipped off to slavery, no one ever wants to bring that little fact up!

This is true, we were the first; and it wasn't just within the Empire, it was everywhere. As you say the Navy was sent out scouring the seas for slave ships. A bit counterproductive, unfortunately, as whenever the Union jack came into view over the horizon the slave ships would basically just chuck all the slaves overboard, but the intention was there nevertheless. Nobody ever does mention this and it was on many levels a good thing.
(Although, some historians have argued that it could be seen as a somewhat hypocritical attempt to prevent our rivals from using the same tactics we had used to make themselves as rich as we had by then become; in much the same way that the Americans are now trying to discourage the Chinese and Indians from using oil to make their economies powerful).

Quote by winchwench
....
Tomu-
Would you please have my babies?

:-) definitely! Oh hang on - having them might be difficult, but I'd certainly have a go at making some... I've always thought you're hot...
Apologies for lengthy and a bit pretentious post, I just got a bit carried away and I was supposed to be working...
_____________
*unless you're Roy Keane - when asked, "How did it feel to win the treble?", he responded "It felt kind of ok, for a couple of days, and then it wore off and I started thinking about the next game." Now there is a guy who has seriously taken to heart the meaning of Rudyard Kipling's poem "If". Probably.

23 Jun 2008

Quote by Mr_mrs_joy
I'm proud to be british just not necessarily proud of the ppl who live in it or the choices goverment make on my behalf

:thumbup: agree with that

23 Jun 2008

Quote by Peanut
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history, in which the nation-state has become the preferred form of societal organization, however, by no means universal. Historians use the term nationalism to refer to this historical transition and to the emergence and predominance of nationalist ideology. Nationalism is closely associated with patriotism".
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy.
I cannot understand peoples " logic " when they claim to have no national pride. It is an identity, a belonging. If you watch the last night of the proms, which by the way some people would like to see banned, that instills great national pride. The whole Britishness.
Or the wearing of the poppy for rememberance day. People bring up the slave trade but that was 200 years ago when things were so different from today.I am proud now.
If peoples morals are so high, the very people who dont think they are British or English, then if we ever get a St. Georges day as a holiday they wont want to take it I gather? There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand. I take pride in my accomplishments and I take pride in any family member's. But pride in something someone did a couple of hundred years ago? No, why should I? That isn't to say I can't say what they did is a good thing, it's just not relevant to me personally, and even if it was does that mean I can't be proud of something good that happened to happen in another country?
Nationality is just an accident of birth, it's not something I had to work for, train for or struggle for. Once again I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.
So I'm neither proud or not proud, I just happen to be here in Britain.
Strange....but of course your opinion. But am glad that most do not think that way. cool

Would it make it easier if I said I was human before I was British, so strictly speaking based on your 'rules' I should be proud of every human accomplishment regardless of which country provided it. This would therefore make national pride irrelevant and illogical.
You guys.... BOTH your opinions are valued and valuable, hope you divn't fall oot boot it like! lol

23 Jun 2008

Quote by jaymar
You guys.... BOTH your opinions are valued and valuable, hope you divn't fall oot boot it like!

No chance of that, at least not from this end. Discussions are discussions that's all smile

In any case, mine's more of a state of mind than an opinion. :lol:

23 Jun 2008

Quote by Peanut
You guys.... BOTH your opinions are valued and valuable, hope you divn't fall oot boot it like!

No chance of that, at least not from this end. Discussions are discussions that's all smile

In any case, mine's more of a state of mind than an opinion. :lol:
I love men's minds.... ask Steve! :rascal:

24 Jun 2008

Quote by Dizzy_DonnaCouple
the fact that we let every low life from other countrys (the ones that want to work are great but there are so many that come over and don't work)

See that's the problem with nationalism.
As soon as I saw the tread title I wondered how long it would be before someone would post shit like that above?
Page 2. Well done.
lonni xxx

24 Jun 2008

Quote by flower411
I'm 'proud' for want of a better word, of my heritage.
I am of Viking stock - from way back, Yorkshire born and a British Citizen.
I'm happy about all these things. To be honest - I'm more 'attached' to my Viking blood than to modern society. But that is probably cos I am seriously into history and that older period particularly.
I've heard that one should be willing to die for one's country. Stuff and nonsense - I may be persuaded to kill for it, at a pinch, but dying for something I will then not enjoy is pointless. I would (I believe) die for my family if that was the only option - but I can't honestly see any situation arising where that would be the only option.

Wasn`t there some General who said something along the lines of
" I don`t want you to die for your country....I want you to kill them bastards that are prepared to die for theirs ! " wink

Just for you flower.
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
George S. Patton

24 Jun 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

All the castles the English built in Wales!!

The Normans built castles in England as well, and we, England and Wales stood side by side in the Civil Wars of the mid 1600s to win back British freedoms.
I've corrected the quote, Travis - Tune said that, not me.I stand corrected, and ask your forgiveness, but it was poor editing, that has now been corrected. So please forgive me?

24 Jun 2008

I was born in London but have lived in Wales for 29 years yet I still feel English. When I'm in Wales, I feel English, when I'm in England I feel British, not through any sense of nationalist pride but a mere matter of fact, it's part of who I am and what made me 'me'.
There are things about this country I love and things that make me cringe and wish I was born elsewhere, it's difficult to tell how many of my values come from being brought up here, the society that formed my parents into the people they are is in a large part responsible for the way they brought me up.
I alsways laugh at the irony of people who stand on street corners shouting, 'down with the Government', when it's the very fact that they live here that allows them the freedom of speech to do it, in countless other countries they'd be shot. We offer humanitarian aid to those who need it (most of the time) but sometimes lack the ability to then stand back.
I sometimes liken our little island to a lifeboat (with regard to an earlier comment) but at some point even the sturdiest of lifeboats will start to flounder with too many people on board, especially if some of the rescuees don't help to row. But given that, I'd much rather be on a stricken lifeboat that helps as many people as possible than alone on an empty but still floating ship.
H.x

24 Jun 2008

Quote by jaymar
In all honesty I can't say that I've ever understood the logic of national pride.

Maybe this may help....
"Nationalism has had an enormous influence on Modern history, in which the nation-state has become the preferred form of societal organization, however, by no means universal. Historians use the term nationalism to refer to this historical transition and to the emergence and predominance of nationalist ideology. Nationalism is closely associated with patriotism".
I understand the history of it and the definition, it's the logic of it that escapes me.
I find the logic very easy.
I cannot understand peoples " logic " when they claim to have no national pride. It is an identity, a belonging. If you watch the last night of the proms, which by the way some people would like to see banned, that instills great national pride. The whole Britishness.
Or the wearing of the poppy for rememberance day. People bring up the slave trade but that was 200 years ago when things were so different from today.I am proud now.
If peoples morals are so high, the very people who dont think they are British or English, then if we ever get a St. Georges day as a holiday they wont want to take it I gather? There is a lot I do not like about the UK, but it is where I was born and brought up, it is part of my identity, and for that I am proud.
It's the logic of taking pride in the accomplishments of someone I've never met or known that I don't understand. I take pride in my accomplishments and I take pride in any family member's. But pride in something someone did a couple of hundred years ago? No, why should I? That isn't to say I can't say what they did is a good thing, it's just not relevant to me personally, and even if it was does that mean I can't be proud of something good that happened to happen in another country?
Nationality is just an accident of birth, it's not something I had to work for, train for or struggle for. Once again I don't see the logic in being proud of a random country that I was born in.
So I'm neither proud or not proud, I just happen to be here in Britain.
Strange....but of course your opinion. But am glad that most do not think that way. cool

Would it make it easier if I said I was human before I was British, so strictly speaking based on your 'rules' I should be proud of every human accomplishment regardless of which country provided it. This would therefore make national pride irrelevant and illogical.
You guys.... BOTH your opinions are valued and valuable, hope you divn't fall oot boot it like! lol

No bad feeling here at all. That is how it should be where people agree or not. EVERYONE on here has the right to have an opinion no matter who they upset in the process, as upset you will if your views are strong enough.
For me I dont like much about this country but funnily enough am proud of my Nationality. The last night of the proms is just so rousing, it is what can make this country so great at times, and others a crap country. :lol:

24 Jun 2008

In this day and age I am proud to be Australian....
That's not very helpful is it?? dunno

24 Jun 2008

Quote by Shireen
In this day and age I am proud to be Australian....
That's not very helpful is it??

:kick:

25 Jun 2008

Quote by H-x
I was born in London but have lived in Wales for 29 years yet I still feel English. When I'm in Wales, I feel English, when I'm in England I feel British, not through any sense of nationalist pride but a mere matter of fact, it's part of who I am and what made me 'me'.
There are things about this country I love and things that make me cringe and wish I was born elsewhere, it's difficult to tell how many of my values come from being brought up here, the society that formed my parents into the people they are is in a large part responsible for the way they brought me up.
I alsways laugh at the irony of people who stand on street corners shouting, 'down with the Government', when it's the very fact that they live here that allows them the freedom of speech to do it, in countless other countries they'd be shot. We offer humanitarian aid to those who need it (most of the time) but sometimes lack the ability to then stand back.
I sometimes liken our little island to a lifeboat (with regard to an earlier comment) but at some point even the sturdiest of lifeboats will start to flounder with too many people on board, especially if some of the rescuees don't help to row. But given that, I'd much rather be on a stricken lifeboat that helps as many people as possible than alone on an empty but still floating ship.
H.x

I like that, and it is true, all apart from the bit about the Government. Our history means they have little choice but to let us rant and rave....at least for the moment. So to ensure that we as a people are able to continue to say what we wish we must do just that say it as often and loudly as possible.
...and if what some say is garbage, that is the price of freedom of speech.
Travis