Sex education..should it be left to secoundary school age?

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

Hey great to see you back postiong. I agree with lots of what you've posted Pink it makes a lot of sense and isn't 'wordy bollox' for sure. I recognise the need for sex ed and promote as such. What I mean by wordy bollox is the fact that age appropriate or the other examples are 'political' type answers. A straight question coming back with 'age appropriate 'gives no answer. It needs further explanation.
If i ask my sons school "when are you going to teach my son about sex education"
If they then come back with "when its age appropriate" I am no further forward surely?

Nope, it's a succinct way of saying something, rather than doing it in wordy bollox.
If you went to school and asked about the dates of sex and relationship education, you'd be told in which year group it will be taught. Clearly we all have to be prepared for earlier questions such as those asked of Buckingfabe, though - and be willing/able to answer them, just as parents do. In other words, give age-appropriate answers when necessary.
How about saying that they would be taught in year six - or between the ages of 10-11 or the like would be more useful to most I believe. I still think 'age appropriate' is avoiding a specific answer. Yes age-appropriate maybe succinct but succinct (after having to check up in the old dictionary because admitted i wasn't that sure of its full meaning) still leaves us no conclusion or result to the question asked
I like Minx have twin 11 year olds and we did go and find out how and what they were going to be taught about sex in school having been invited to the school to do so. I agreed with the school giving the sex - ed, though I admit the thought that excluding them may also be bad for them with their peer group was also a factor in our decision.
Spookily my boys had their first sex-ed lesson today and said the only thing they thought was interesting was that the cartoon reminded them of family guy? I will be asking the school though why the teacher told all the boys in the class to keep their hands off their penises, as told to me by my son, who may of told me in a context different from the teachers, but I will ask still.
I guess I like things to be more specific and positive, rather than the vagueness of these terms.
I wholly agree with the sentiments of age-appropriate given a more generalised debate, although when asked "Sex education..should it be left to secoundary school age?"
Age-appropriate does not fulfill the criteria of whats being asked.
I'm tying myself up in my own wordy bollox here ain't I lol

oh well i know what I mean I just wish I had the ability to elucidate as well as tomu, peanut or unc

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Lost

Hey great to see you back postiong. I agree with lots of what you've posted Pink it makes a lot of sense and isn't 'wordy bollox' for sure. I recognise the need for sex ed and promote as such. What I mean by wordy bollox is the fact that age appropriate or the other examples are 'political' type answers. A straight question coming back with 'age appropriate 'gives no answer. It needs further explanation.
If i ask my sons school "when are you going to teach my son about sex education"
If they then come back with "when its age appropriate" I am no further forward surely?

Nope, it's a succinct way of saying something, rather than doing it in wordy bollox.
If you went to school and asked about the dates of sex and relationship education, you'd be told in which year group it will be taught. Clearly we all have to be prepared for earlier questions such as those asked of Buckingfabe, though - and be willing/able to answer them, just as parents do. In other words, give age-appropriate answers when necessary.
How about saying that they would be taught in year six - or between the ages of 10-11 or the like would be more useful to most I believe. I still think 'age appropriate' is avoiding a specific answer. Yes age-appropriate maybe succinct but succinct (after having to check up in the old dictionary because admitted i wasn't that sure of its full meaning) still leaves us no conclusion or result to the question asked
I like Minx have twin 11 year olds and we did go and find out how and what they were going to be taught about sex in school having been invited to the school to do so. I agreed with the school giving the sex - ed, though I admit the thought that excluding them may also be bad for them with their peer group was also a factor in our decision.
Spookily my boys had their first sex-ed lesson today and said the only thing they thought was interesting was that the cartoon reminded them of family guy? I will be asking the school though why the teacher told all the boys in the class to keep their hands off their penises, as told to me by my son, who may of told me in a context different from the teachers, but I will ask still.
I guess I like things to be more specific and positive, rather than the vagueness of these terms.
I wholly agree with the sentiments of age-appropriate given a more generalised debate, although when asked "Sex education..should it be left to secoundary school age?"
Age-appropriate does not fulfill the criteria of whats being asked.
I'm tying myself up in my own wordy bollox here ain't I lol

oh well i know what I mean I just wish I had the ability to elucidate as well as tomu, peanut or unc
Typical boys eh? :lol:
Then boys turn into men and they carry on palying with them. Mind you...women say its where our brains are. :lol:

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Theladyisaminx
Can I ask would children that seem to be at a lower mental ability to reason as others at their age be taken out of the class while being taught this subject?
I fear not!

It depends really. If they are that far below, they wouldn't be in mainstream school anyway. Any child in mainstream school would be expected to be in the sex and relationship lessons. However, there are children who have been removed before now because they just wouldn't be able to cope with the information.

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Lost

Hey great to see you back postiong. I agree with lots of what you've posted Pink it makes a lot of sense and isn't 'wordy bollox' for sure. I recognise the need for sex ed and promote as such. What I mean by wordy bollox is the fact that age appropriate or the other examples are 'political' type answers. A straight question coming back with 'age appropriate 'gives no answer. It needs further explanation.
If i ask my sons school "when are you going to teach my son about sex education"
If they then come back with "when its age appropriate" I am no further forward surely?

Nope, it's a succinct way of saying something, rather than doing it in wordy bollox.
If you went to school and asked about the dates of sex and relationship education, you'd be told in which year group it will be taught. Clearly we all have to be prepared for earlier questions such as those asked of Buckingfabe, though - and be willing/able to answer them, just as parents do. In other words, give age-appropriate answers when necessary.
How about saying that they would be taught in year six - or between the ages of 10-11 or the like would be more useful to most I believe. I still think 'age appropriate' is avoiding a specific answer. Yes age-appropriate maybe succinct but succinct (after having to check up in the old dictionary because admitted i wasn't that sure of its full meaning) still leaves us no conclusion or result to the question asked

And that is what you would be told, as I said before (I've made it bold). The school wouldn't tell you that it was going to be taught at an 'age-appropriate' time. They would tell you when the formal teaching would take place. What Buckingfabe is referring to, was a younger child asking a question, out of the blue. That's what happens in the home and at school and you (or the teacher) would give a child an answer according to their age/how well you knew them - i.e., age-appropriate.

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Lost
I recognise the need for sex ed and promote as such. What I mean by wordy bollox is the fact that age appropriate or the other examples are 'political' type answers. A straight question coming back with 'age appropriate 'gives no answer. It needs further explanation.
If i ask my sons school "when are you going to teach my son about sex education"
If they then come back with "when its age appropriate" I am no further forward surely?

I think you are both right and wrong :-) When talking specifically, as in about your sons for example, it wouldn't be sufficient information. However as a general response as it was used in this thread it is, even though that is an ideal rather than an actuality.
It's simple enough to find out at what ages children in state schools receive sex education however. That is at KS3 (11 to 14) and KS4 (14 to 16) and it is a statutory subject in the National Curriculum.

10 Jul 2008

I am currently teaching sex and relationships ed to year 5 and this thread has been an interesting read! I'm sorry if I turn some of this into a rant!
I do think that sex ed needs to be taught in primary schools. Most of my class knew about sex before this topic was brought up in school, but they had very naive, childish views about it. Therefore, they need to be made more aware. Their bodies are changing, a number of girls within the yeargroup have started their periods this year. The children don't really know why they begin to have the feelings they do and there has been an increase in the amount of childish talk about boyfriends and girlfriends. Some parents are not comfortable discussing sex with their children and some children don't have parents they feel comfortable to ask those types of questions. When I was growing up I wasn't comfortable talking to my strict catholic parents about sex! So, teaching it in school means that all children receive some form of sex ed.
I agree with sex ed in primary schools, and I have no problem with teaching it. However there have been issues surrounding the teaching of it within my school. I am a newly qualified teacher (NQT) but have not been doing me induction this year due to being on a supply contract. When I agreed to take the post I was given I was told by the then assistant head, now dep head, that she would give me any support I needed. I was not told at that point that I would be expected to teach sex ed and I was never made fully aware of the school policies surrounding it. We have no school nurse, even for support, I have never had any sort of training on sex ed and noone seems to want to own up to being in charge of organising anything. At the start of the year, said dep head was science coordinator, now she is not, but the new science coordinator will nto be in post till sept, though she does currently work at the school. Dep head arranged meeting for parents to see videos, out of a 3 form entry school 3 parents raised concerns, all from my class. I spent 2 weeks trying to find out what school policy def was (all of which I don't really agree with), another week in and out with trips to hospital then eventually managed to get back to parents. Absolutely no support was given by the dep head. Every time i went to her I was basically told to deal with it. Noone really seemed to know what I should do. She's now not happy with me because I did deal with it and sent a letter to said parents, which wasnt sent via senior management office, but they hadn't seemed to care before! I'm sure the parents are filled with confidence!
My point is that while sex ed needs to be done around this age, there definitely needs to be some form of training given to those teachers who are going to be teaching it, and they need to be fully aware of the schools policies. This is where the problems have lay in our school. It is a sensitive issue, but is also a fact of life that children need to be aware of. It needs to be taught somewhere.
Sorry for my rant and probably not being very clear at all!
Strawbs

10 Jul 2008

Quote by splendid_
just for info. You would be incorrect in saying that it takes a man and a woman to make a baby.
It actually takes an egg and a sperm. There are many, many ways of bringing those together.
Also teaching children that sex happens within a loving relationship is pants too.(for those that do) What about sexual abuse ?
I know one person who was traumatised in sex ed. at school when she realised that what her mum had mysteriously referred to as love making was in fact something her uncle and brother had been doing to her for many years. She had a breakdown and attempted suicide.
Education about sex and biology etc should be happening all of the time and the teachers role should be supported by open minded holistic discussion from the parents.
One of my son's female friends is allowed around our house until 8pm. If he goes there they have to remain downstairs and he is not allowed upstairs at all, even to use the toilet. This is because her mother says 'he is a boy he may do something naughty to you' she has never elaborated on the 'naughty' thing. That gets my goat. Not just because she has misjudged her daughter's sexuality (she is gay) but because she thinks that young men are automatically perpetrators of 'naughtiness'. What sort of message is that ?

Grrrrr

Thats despicable Splen, I'd be furious. If she'd had a son, how would she have dealt with him? Not that long ago I found myself snapping at a woman in Asda who told her small son not to run off as "A bad man will get you" mad

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Unc
It's simple enough to find out at what ages children in state schools receive sex education however. That is at KS3 (11 to 14) and KS4 (14 to 16) and it is a statutory subject in the National Curriculum.

It's taught in primary schools as part of the PSHE curriculum, sex and relationships. Usually partly in year five, then more in year six.

Quote by strawberrytart
My point is that while sex ed needs to be done around this age, there definitely needs to be some form of training given to those teachers who are going to be teaching it, and they need to be fully aware of the schools policies. This is where the problems have lay in our school. It is a sensitive issue, but is also a fact of life that children need to be aware of. It needs to be taught somewhere.
Sorry for my rant and probably not being very clear at all!
Strawbs

There is training for teachers who will be delivering it. Our local authority produces a handbook of the courses available each academic year - look through it and find training for PSHE/sex and relationship education. Mention it as part of your performance management review, as a specific training need.
The school's policies should be available for anyone to view at any time.

10 Jul 2008

I am aware that policies should be available. The school that I am working at has been through the mill over the last few years and there's been a lot of pressure on, which is now, fortunately, sorted. The problem is that within all that they thought of nothing outside the stuff that needed to be on paper ready for Ofsted coming in. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and if I find myself in year 5 in the future I will be enuering that I have some training on sex ed after the experience I have had this year. In my situation it's been very difficult. I have made my concerns about the lack of support known to the senior management team and will be advising the teachers going into year 5 next year to make sure they have some training and know the exact protocl well in advance of anything happening, particularly as I know 2 of those are NQTs. The school just left me to it, gave me no support and expected me to deal with things. It worries me that things like this may well happen in other schools. Teachers can teach, and this should be the same for sex ed, but it is a sensitive area. I was not made aware that I would be teaching it in year 5, had I been a permanent member of staff from September and the school wasn't in the position is was, maybe that would have been different and I could have done something about it. The deputy head I mentioned was the teacher of the class I am in before I took over full time in Jan. She was the one who persuaded me to stay. I turned down a job with NQT induction, for a number of reasons, but partly because of this school. She promised she would support me if I needed anything. But this is the same person who I went to for advice about this and was told to deal with it. If NQTs are going to be expected to teach this, they need to be more aware of the training and support that is available to them.

10 Jul 2008

Quote by Freckledbird

It's simple enough to find out at what ages children in state schools receive sex education however. That is at KS3 (11 to 14) and KS4 (14 to 16) and it is a statutory subject in the National Curriculum.

It's taught in primary schools as part of the PSHE curriculum, sex and relationships. Usually partly in year five, then more in year six.
That's the bit I forgot to paste biggrin