I simply cannot believe how easy it appears to lead portions of the great British public around by the nose.
I remember reading somewhere recently that on average one child per week is killed through neglect by it's parents/guardians in this country.
52 per year.
Since the Victoria Climbie case, which was 8? years ago, that's 516 children, if the average is correct.
How many of their names do you know? How many have been front page news? How many have had their names raised in parliment?
Ask yourself why you know so much about this one?
Wouldn't be anything to do with it being Haringey council would it? There of course wouldn't be any political agenda at work here.....would there?
Why do we never hear about the good work Social Services do, the children they potentially save from this type of things?
I would suggest unless there is evidence of serious personal negligence on the part of an individual, which has directly lead or contributed to the death of this child instead of the usual and far, far more likely failure of systems or communications, the witch hunt is stopped.
Does anyone really believe that a Social Worker, Police Officer or Doctor would leave a child in a place of danger, knowing that the child was at serious risk of harm or death with both full knowledge of what was going on and an alternative?
IF anyone really does believe that, I'd suggest a burning torch and a pitchfork would be suitable attire.
Do you know what?
If proven to be the case my comments and thoughts may very well change significantly.
That's not really the question I asked though is it?
Do you believe that's what gone on?
As I don't appear to be making any calls for a witch hunt before I am in possession of anything like the full facts, I don't have to answer that question.
Snap judgements and unsupported claims are fun aren't they? They do have a habit of biting you on the bum though.
So Kent, how many (without googling) of the 1 a week on average children killed by neglect in the last 8 years can you name? No more than 5 I'll bet. So if this is a regular occurence, does it not follow that Social Services and child protection failures are also a regular occurence? How come there's been nothing like the coverage of this then?
Another agenda. Using a dead child. Mind you, if prominent politicions see it as acceptable, whay should anyone else baulk at it?
(Edited to add further thoughts, My apologies)
Ok,
This is going off topic but I hope to illustrate my point.
The Omagh bombing, as I understand it, so many people died becuase the police officers evacuated people into the path of a second device. They were given specific information on a threat to one part of the town and acted according to set down procedures to minimise the threat to the public.
Unfortunately they were deceived by those responsible into evacuating into an area where a second, much larger device was waiting.
Now, were the police on the scene negligent and therefore responsible for those deaths, or did they act in complete good faith in accordance with set down procedures and fell victim to a deception?
Read the whole case on this childs Kent not just the bits that serve your purpose, injuries were masked, marks and bloodstains hidden, the parent gave every impression of working with Social Services
"30 July 2007: Injuries to Baby P's face and hands are missed by a social worker after the boy is deliberately smeared with chocolate to hide them."
Deception by the parent or Social Worker negligence?
"1 August 2007: The boy is examined at a child development clinic."
What was seen here? Anything missed? Or just put down to an unwell child?
"2 August 2007: Police tell the mother she will not be prosecuted after her case is considered by the Crown Prosecution Service."
CPS negligence or not enough evidence to support a prosecution? Do we proscecute without evidence now?
This woman was arrested numerous times, the child was removed numerous times;
"One of the key questions for the review into the Baby P case, and for the future of child protection, is whether services are still over-optimistic in believing a family can be trusted.
It is a hard balance to achieve, because taking a child into care has serious negative consequences and children's services will often work to keep a youngster at home even if they know there is a degree of risk.
Baby P, unlike Victoria Climbie, had been identified as at significant risk and was on the child protection register.
But the mother appeared co-operative and persuasive - sometimes volunteering information and seeking advice and help.
Police had not found enough evidence to pursue any criminal proceedings. And the decision was made to leave the little boy in the family home."
So go on Kent, what should have been done, not enough evidence to proscecute, a seemingly co-operative parent and the knowledge that removing a child from their family can have massive negative effects if not needed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing to have, in the real day to day world it's not available.
I cannot argue the points raised Staff.....no easy answers I suppose.
The mother has had another baby whilst in prison! It just gets worse.
From what I have read, the police are the only ones who had any brains in this case, they told SS NOT to return babyp to the mother several times.
The mother has had another baby whilst in prison! It just gets worse.
From what I have read, the police are the only ones who had any brains in this case, they told SS NOT to return babyp to the mother several times.
Like to echo staffs sentiments of this being a good debate. A really interesting read people :thumbup:
NN,
Do you have a link for this? Can't seem to find any information from my end and to be honest I cannot give you a reasonable answer without any information.
As i said, realistically, no one is going to save every single child, it is sadly impossible, because humans don't have the abilty to read minds. We can never know what is in the thoughts of another, therefore stopping every single person that means a child harm is whilst an admirable wish also an unrealistic one. So I guess we as parents in conjunction with child protection services and other agencies have to do the best we can, sadly as shown in this and other cases sometimes, with the best will in the world unsuccesfully.
This has indeed been a good debate. I did wonder about starting it as these kind of threads usually degenerate into a bickerung match. I am glad this one has not, as I think all of us agree that this case is very sad indeed.
I don't know why but this case has really stirred my emotions, a sort of subject that I usually just turn the page as it is too horrific to read.
The wheels are in motion and hopefully we will all find out why this happened, and who if anyone is to blame.
I would like to thank everyone for good points and comments made, and for the thread to have stayed on course. Long may it continue as I am sure this topic will survive a little longer.
i would bring charges against all concerned and the punsihment would be the same as what the poor baby suffered.
It would be the wake up call all social services need! The message would be clear!
Fuck up and you get fucked up!
This woman still has human rights? :shock: Astounding.
It just beggars belief.
I have read peoples comments on here, I have read so many newspaper articals, and seen the news programmes on the tv.
I have heard most of the arguements on both sides. But this artical and if people bother to read All of it, sums it all up for me. Everything this woman says is for me so accurate.
It is both from the heart and the head, and nothing will convince me this artical is inaccurate in any way.
