socials and private party guests lists approval

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Mal
I have also been away for the weekend and working during the day and without internet access for the last 24 hours. I also have a real life, so excuse me if I don't leap up and down to reply!!
On another note, Staggy, specifically, where you 'gave us 24 hours to respond', would that be in response to a PM not sent to a Mod, but to a Mods partner, because, as you said, you couldn't be arsed to find my PM button???? You say jump, we say how high? I don't think so!!
When I have time I'll respond to what this thread is about, but as Staggy brought this up obviously due to a significant personal event, could you PM ME the details so I'm not arguing the wrong cause?
By the way, my PM is at the bottom of any of my million posts if you get stuck on the spelling.
Off to work now.
Mal

mal there are mods than just yourself on here, the pm was sent originally to a mod followed up with a request for a response then a further half day waiting before i came on here, now if that mod could not give me the answer i wanted could it not have been discussed in the mods lounge, maybe even a "we are looking into this" response,
Nice quote there from a pm i sent to sarah, thats decent of you get your facts right before you try and make a fool of people mal or you end up being the fool, thats also a reason i couldnt be arsed to find YOUR pm button,
oh add smiley so its all nice and lovey shall i lol

i also said to sarah that it was just a chat i was having with her, nothing more ,the request to pass it to you was a side issue, as i thought you may have more insight than her,
once again the original pm was sent to a Mod . I know where your pm button is Mal so no need for the sarcasm fella .
Now what significant personal event are you on about Mal as once again your assumptions are all wrong, this has been on my mind for months , bought up again by the locked thread a few weeks ago and the recent meets that have / are happening at clubs, i wouldnt consider my self that important to want a rule changed to suit just me , but maybe because i started this thread you are blind to all those that have followed it up with similar thoughts.......your tone mal was rude in your post, i do not apologise now for making a post in the same taste as your own as you deserve it.
i dont want to send this question to you via pm Mal as there are far too many interested parties now and quite frankly it should be sorted out on an open forum as it can effect all members......the original point is made in post one of this thread , when you get back from your real life as you put it go and read that if you want to. If you dont then im sure some other moderator will or already has.
staggy

1 Nov 2006

My last comment about this:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/65788.html

1 Nov 2006

I am in no way wanting to appear inflammatory - as it's not my intention.
Can anyone define 'Social Event' please?

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Jags
My last comment about this:
http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/65788.html

to jags
i know the rules, the idea of this thread was to promote discussion as to why the rules apply and should they be changed , when this was bought up before the thread was locked prematurely , as you can see many people still dont fully understand the reasoning behind the rules, espeically where a private party is concerned, its a shame you feel you cannot contribute more to the discussion than here are the rules so tough jags, as you are part of the team that makes the rules for the site members benefit i rather hoped you could join in the discussion more than by saying here take it or leave it,,,,
to all other mods
can i suggest a relaxation of the rules where private parties are concerned , if the party organiser states clearly that it is a private party and does not fall under sh jurisdiction this will then allow people to invite friends from elsewhere , just like a club meet allows other site members to attend, it does make this site rather odd compared to others
it wouldnt be difficult to seperate private parties from socials and munches would it,
staggy

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Kiss
I am in no way wanting to appear inflammatory - as it's not my intention.
Can anyone define 'Social Event' please?

Social Event: something that happens at a given place and time, can be private or in a public place usually a bar or suchlike and alcohol beverages are served, available, or present.
Or
A vaguely specified social event: "A Party" "an occasion arranged to honorâ€
Iâ€™m also confused with this thread, as a social can be held in a public place and are allowed to be advertised in the forums, sometimes even with dates and actual location, the point being anyone can look at these forums without being a member that will also include previously banned members so in effect they can turn up anyway? if they do does the person who organised the event get a lifetime ban? Itâ€™s not been mentioned but this could also include the press and such like to attend the said event, The other point is these rules also come into effect for a member who has been banned (or currently banned should I say) for whispering uninvited in chat and if they are going to pose a threat then why is the said ban lifted after 24 hours? I also think this ruling should be changed and if anything only include permanently banned members from attending any such events ideally SH only socials/munches and should not include any private get together among friends whether it be a party or a trip to the local pub. It would also be good to see the forum section being a bit more secure and accessible only to members rather than anyone with an internet connection as that puts members more at risk than any single banned member will, thatâ€™s actually helping the said banned member along the way. Just my opinion though. smile

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
It would also be good to see the forum section being a bit more secure and accessible only to members rather than anyone with an internet connection as that puts members more at risk than any single banned member will, thatâ€™s actually helping the said banned member along the way.

Good point, but if the forums were made member only, then one of the shop windows of the site would be removed and possible paying punters wouldn't get their appetites whetted ... or is that my cynicism showing? Although a member only forum wouldn't really make the site much more secure since anyone can join, even banned members if they use a different isp and change their posting style.

1 Nov 2006

I organise a party. I advertise it on SH but I also invite friends from outside SH. If asked I provide moderators with a list of the usernames from SH and also, although this does seem to breach most people's sense of privacy, a list of the names of non-SH guests. As far as I can see I have broken no rules.
However, unbeknownst to me, one of my friends who is on the list is in fact banned member X. His/her former existence as a SH member has never been mentioned to me. After the party, one of the attendees, who knows member X, reports the fact that this person was at the party to a moderator and I face a permanent ban.
This seems a very odd situation to be in and one that is totally out of my control unless I limit my guest list to current SH members. Is this what the moderator team / admin wish me to do? If so, the rules surely need to be amended to say only SH members are allowed to be present at ANY event advertised on SH.

1 Nov 2006

Quote by DeeCee
what i find strange though is the plethora of hypothetical situations that have been suggested....... mostly by people who dont even hold parties........

Doesn't necessarily mean that people are bringing out the large wooden spoons....... just that without clarifiacation of what would happen in those hypothetical situations, could prevent people from choosing to advertise events on this site.
From my interpetation of the current rules, I feel that the only way to safeguard yourself as the host, is to advertise exclusively on SH, wether it's for a social, private party or private meet. Another possibility is to advertise it elsewhere (including word of mouth amoungst friends), but to insist that all attendees are members of this site. A downside to this could be that it could encourage previously banned members to re-join, with a different e-mail addy and IP address, then keep a low profile......... this could cause a major headache for the mods (esp if they have approved the guest list), and they would then have to decide if the host, or other attendees had deliberatley, broken the site rules.
I don't think that allowing the mods a list of usernames (from anywhere) is breaching the DPA, as it isn't personal information. The mods and admin couldn't gain personal details (name, address, phone number etc) from a username anyway. But, because of this it means that previously banned members could easily slip through the net, via this safety check; i.e Joe Bloggs might be banned here under the username "JoeBloggs", but if he is registered elsewhere and appears on a guest list as "Adifferentuser" then it wouldn't be picked up on. The hosts could be totally ignorant to the users previously banned status - especially if it was an old banning.
Les x

1 Nov 2006

Quote by couple_ne2000
I don't think that allowing the mods a list of usernames (from anywhere) is breaching the DPA, as it isn't personal information. The mods and admin couldn't gain personal details (name, address, phone number etc) from a username anyway. But, because of this it means that previously banned members could easily slip through the net, via this safety check; i.e Joe Bloggs might be banned here under the username "JoeBloggs", but if he is registered elsewhere and appears on a guest list as "Adifferentuser" then it wouldn't be picked up on. The hosts could be totally ignorant to the users previously banned status - especially if it was an old banning.
Les x

A very interesting point. But if, like me, you had to pay to use SH, my name, address, credit card details are listed somewhere. Maybe a banned member pre-takeover could rejoin without anyone noticing, but could a paying member be banned then pay again using the same name, address and bank details? Would the signup software allow that?

1 Nov 2006

if, lets say user, "imhavingparties645" were to hold a party at "staggies swinging club" and there just happened to be other parties going on at my establishment,and he advertised it on this site then has imhavingparties645 broken the aup, of course staggies swing club would be a very popular venue, with jaccuzi ,swing , dungeons, pony play and play rooms and whats more it could be free, well it could be couldnt it? or does Staggies swinging club have to charge to be acceptable?
"Staggies" of course would not be open to all and sundry, members of the club would be chosen, like some other swinging clubs do,
if you have rules can you allow grey areas, with such dire consequences?
Or should the rules be amended so "staggies" club never has to exist?
staggy
currently not owner of staggies swinging club but would like to from this point in time let it be known it could happen one day, lol

xx

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Kiss
A very interesting point. But if, like me, you had to pay to use SH, my name, address, credit card details are listed somewhere. Maybe a banned member pre-takeover could rejoin without anyone noticing, but could a paying member be banned then pay again using the same name, address and bank details? Would the signup software allow that?

It would certainly allow anyone banned before the take-over from re-joining. Other than that it would probably depend on the intelligence of the software used to take your credit card details. I would be very suprised if your personal details are held in a viewable database i.e. it is highly unlikely that the Mod/admin control panels would have a facility to block payments made from CC's registered to a specific name and address.
There are facilities to carry out credit card searches, which I've used when I worked for a Train operating company, and it is possible to link back to specific sale made using that card..... but, it was very time consuming, and couldn't be done automatically for security reasons.......... we had to ask permission from the customer to carry out the search too. It would be impossible to vet all join ups manually this way.
Les x

1 Nov 2006

Quote by couple_ne2000

A very interesting point. But if, like me, you had to pay to use SH, my name, address, credit card details are listed somewhere. Maybe a banned member pre-takeover could rejoin without anyone noticing, but could a paying member be banned then pay again using the same name, address and bank details? Would the signup software allow that?

It would certainly allow anyone banned before the take-over from re-joining. Other than that it would probably depend on the intelligence of the software used to take your credit card details. I would be very suprised if your personal details are held in a viewable database i.e. it is highly unlikely that the Mod/admin control panels would have a facility to block payments made from CC's registered to a specific name and address.
There are facilities to carry out credit card searches, which I've used when I worked for a Train operating company, and it is possible to link back to specific sale made using that card..... but, it was very time consuming, and couldn't be done automatically for security reasons.......... we had to ask permission from the customer to carry out the search too. It would be impossible to vet all join ups manually this way.
Les x
But it is possible - some online gambling sites don't allow multiple accounts, if you try to register again with the same credit card number and house address it won't let you. I think if you try to use a different card it still doesn't allow it because you have to type in the cardholders address so would show as duplicate.
Unless of course you asked your mate Bob down the pub to register for you, but I can't see that conversation happening too often. lol

Of course being a basic/non-member doesn't stop people reading the forums or turning up to venues and trying their luck, but it could go some way towards stopping anyone trying to worm their way in to getting an invite or finding out 'secret' venues etc.

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Kiss
But it is possible - some online gambling sites don't allow multiple accounts, if you try to register again with the same credit card number and house address it won't let you. I think if you try to use a different card it still doesn't allow it because you have to type in the cardholders address so would show as duplicate.

Actually, doesn't that well known auction site have the same facility........ only one sign up per household. It must come down to the payment software. But again that doesn't stop someone signing up if they have moved house since the banning, or from signing up with a card registered to business premises (for example we have multiple selling accounts on the auction site, one registered here, one registered to a business address and one registered to Den's mothers house). Also the new Pre-paid Mastercards would make it easier to do this, if they are accepted as a payment method.
Les x

1 Nov 2006

Quote by couple_ne2000

But it is possible - some online gambling sites don't allow multiple accounts, if you try to register again with the same credit card number and house address it won't let you. I think if you try to use a different card it still doesn't allow it because you have to type in the cardholders address so would show as duplicate.

Actually, doesn't that well known auction site have the same facility........ only one sign up per household. It must come down to the payment software. But again that doesn't stop someone signing up if they have moved house since the banning, or from signing up with a card registered to business premises (for example we have multiple selling accounts on the auction site, one registered here, one registered to a business address and one registered to Den's mothers house). Also the new Pre-paid Mastercards would make it easier to do this, if they are accepted as a payment method.
Les x
Very true. But I think if somebody is that determined they will carry on regardless trying to cause hassle etc.
Just thinking aloud I guess.
cool

1 Nov 2006

Quote by couple_ne2000

what i find strange though is the plethora of hypothetical situations that have been suggested....... mostly by people who dont even hold parties........

Doesn't necessarily mean that people are bringing out the large wooden spoons....... just that without clarifiacation of what would happen in those hypothetical situations, could prevent people from choosing to advertise events on this site.
i wasnt thinking people were bringing out the spoons....... just seems to me to be alot of brain power going into a no brainer...................

1 Nov 2006

Despite me saying it was my last comment last time I need to make two things VERY CLEAR!
Mods do not have access to the payment database or any database containing addresses, telephone numbers or any such other personal information. We only have access to the stuff you post on the forum or photo ads.
Secondly - no locations of socials are ever allowed to be posted on the open forum. Dates are, of course, necessary for the planning process but names of pubs and/or bars and/or clubs are NOT ALLOWED on the site and only every conveyed by PM for the confirmation of attendance.
Now, go tie yourselves in knots if you want but don't overlook those important points.
That was my last comment on this thread - again.

1 Nov 2006

Jags,
I wasn't aware that anyone was suggesting otherwise. The discussion was about signup software - which is fully automated.

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Kiss
Jags,
I wasn't aware that anyone was suggesting otherwise. The discussion was about signup software - which is fully automated.

I made this comment

I would be very suprised if your personal details are held in a viewable database i.e. it is highly unlikely that the Mod/admin control panels would have a facility to block payments made from CC's registered to a specific name and address.

which, although I said it was unlikely, could have made people question the issue.
Les x

1 Nov 2006

Quote by couple_ne2000
I would be very suprised if your personal details are held in a viewable database i.e. it is highly unlikely that the Mod/admin control panels would have a facility to block payments made from CC's registered to a specific name and address.
Les x

JUST making sure that this voice has been heard before the jungle drums start beating out a nonsensical tune!

1 Nov 2006

Ahhhh I see.

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple
Iâ€™m also confused with this thread, as a social can be held in a public place and are allowed to be advertised in the forums, sometimes even with dates and actual location, the point being anyone can look at these forums without being a member It would also be good to see the forum section being a bit more secure and accessible only to members rather than anyone with an internet connection as that puts members more at risk than any single banned member will, thatâ€™s actually helping the said banned member along the way. Just my opinion though.

And clearlng up this very confused post. NO LOCATIONS are included in forum posts and are always deleted if any idiot does try to post them. So, please make sure that you 1) get your facts correct and 2) report any social meet post or dogging post which DOES have a location in. We are happy to remove it, edit the post or, in the case of persisently idiotic people, remove the account.
Now, let's not confuse an already tottering thread.
rolleyes

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Jags
And clearlng up this very confused post. NO LOCATIONS are included in forum posts and are always deleted if any idiot does try to post them.
Now, let's not confuse an already tottering thread.

LMU has many people advertising to meet at clubs giving the date and location of the meet. Some of the larger club meets are on their second and third meets now and have never encountered a problem with the moderators.
eg : http://www.swingingheaven.co.uk/swingers-forum/viewtopic/88767.html
Those details are accessible to anyone with an internet connection as Fun Scottish couple said
Are you saying that, for these current rules, a social meet in a pub is treated as different to a meet at a club that may be being seen by many as a social because they do not intend to play, and therefore there is no reason to censor the details?

1 Nov 2006

Northwest-cpl are quite right.
If you / we / us, are going to Cupids or Liaisons or Xtasia on a certain date, we often put up a message saying "anyone else from this site going please say hello". Loads of people do that. Hard to see how it could work otherwise. Obviously you do that in th ehope that the people you meet from the site will either be good company socially or sexually. Often we meet people who are prolific forum posters and we feel we almost know them already. But someone might come across and say "Are you Geordiecpl?" (usually the accent is a giveaway). They might introduce themselves as JoeBloggs. How would we know if they had been banned or not?
John & Shel

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Jags

Iâ€™m also confused with this thread, as a social can be held in a public place and are allowed to be advertised in the forums, sometimes even with dates and actual location, the point being anyone can look at these forums without being a member It would also be good to see the forum section being a bit more secure and accessible only to members rather than anyone with an internet connection as that puts members more at risk than any single banned member will, thatâ€™s actually helping the said banned member along the way. Just my opinion though.

And clearlng up this very confused post. NO LOCATIONS are included in forum posts and are always deleted if any idiot does try to post them. So, please make sure that you 1) get your facts correct and 2) report any social meet post or dogging post which DOES have a location in. We are happy to remove it, edit the post or, in the case of persisently idiotic people, remove the account.
Now, let's not confuse an already tottering thread.
rolleyes

All i can say is thanks jags for taking the time to reply, and you haven't cleared anything up as this does happen as the link posted above shows and calling members idiots isn't helping this discussion either, there has been replies on this thread from 2 mods from this site and both have been sarcastic replies to say the least, so to tell me to get my facts right before posting is a bit premature on your part as these postings happen all the time on this site, i wouldn't have brought it up otherwise. sad

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Fun Scottish Couple

there has been replies on this thread from 2 mods from this site and both have been sarcastic replies to say the least, .

Shock, horror, probe !!!!!!!!!!
now there is a surprise!!!!!!!!
:giggle:
RWL
xx

1 Nov 2006

Rules?? What rules :shock:

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Jags
Despite me saying it was my last comment last time I need to make two things VERY CLEAR!
Mods do not have access to the payment database or any database containing addresses, telephone numbers or any such other personal information. We only have access to the stuff you post on the forum or photo ads.
Secondly - no locations of socials are ever allowed to be posted on the open forum. Dates are, of course, necessary for the planning process but names of pubs and/or bars and/or clubs are NOT ALLOWED on the site and only every conveyed by PM for the confirmation of attendance.
Now, go tie yourselves in knots if you want but don't overlook those important points.
That was my last comment on this thread - again.

so the meet at rios that sarah has arramged which is described as a social om the 11th of november is what exactly .........sorry sarah to highlight yours but it was the first one that sprang to mind, i know there have been plenty of others in the past.
We do it all the time with xtasia meets, no one picks us up on this, should we be picked up , if so why the difference, its still site members attending a location, what difference does it make that its not a pub but its a club, for instance , we see mal has drawn special attention to wishmaster, ill use him as an example myself, whats stopping him attending rios or xtasia and so on ,on any of the mentioned dates....
flawed reasoning again
wrats
xx

1 Nov 2006

seems this has already been noted by us fools that are mere members, oops sorry to repeat the point but it aint sinking in with the clever ones at the helm is it.
wrats
xx

1 Nov 2006

Quote by Jags

...but I arrange a 3some in the LMU, no list needed, and during the fun the woman slaps me â€“ wouldnâ€™t it be my word against the couples? Would there be any recourse? Could/would SH do anything?

Why would you not call the police and have the person charged with assault?
SH can only try to prevent situations occuring by not allowing the advertising of events to which previously banned members are expected to be in attendance or are waiting in the room downstairs in the same bar or some such other nonsense. If you don't choose to advertise your event here then SH will have no say in it no matter the outcome.
I know what you are saying Jags but this means that you are relying on the organisers admitting that a banned member is attending ... ie being honest. If you want people to be honest about this then surely threatening them with a ban is counter productive? If someone is honest, tells you about a banned member, advertises their party and other people can make their minds up .... or organiser is determined to advertise their party, know they risk a ban so doesn't admit a banned person is attending, people who otherwise wouldn't choose to go do so and find their personal safety compromised? (for example)
Personally I would rather the first example.
In a community that should put honesty first, I think all the threats of bans do is make people think "ok I won't tell anyone".
Not everyone who reads the forums is an idiot, but it does appear that SH are trying to treat people that way dunno

If appropriate warnings are given, the organiser is aware that some people may ask who and why the ban, and that some people may choose not to attend for their own reasons, surely it's a case of "caveat ēmptor" (couldn't think of a more appropriate phrase).
I thought that this had been agreed upon months ago :dunno: and that Munches and Socials had certain "guidelines" but private parties are at individuals discretion?
Cx

1 Nov 2006

i am due to attend a meet at chams on sunday which was advertised on site if i attend and a banned memeber is present am i likely to be banned also ????? if so why as i have done nothing wrong