Ok, so to start off the Friday Political Debate..
Is lifting opposition MP's the the sort of thing you could expect from a Mugabe style Government rather than "the mother of all democracies"?
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Stalinesque Britain
Quote by GnV
Ok, so to start off the Friday Political Debate..
Is lifting opposition MP's the the sort of thing you could expect from a Mugabe style Government rather than "the mother of all democracies"?
as an MP..he is privvy to information others of us are not....he signs the offical secrets act to state hr eill not release certain information. I have no time for this person who is quite obvviously a self publisist....should lose his right to be an MP.
Sex God
Quote by blonde
A "No shit Sherlock" moment...
:giggle: ^^^^^^ that really made me giggle
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
:lol2: I had a little old chuckle moment then too. However it does make you wonder what planet people are on sometimes though don't it
Quote by GnV
Ok, so to start off the Friday Political Debate..
Is lifting opposition MP's the the sort of thing you could expect from a Mugabe style Government rather than "the mother of all democracies"?
What really makes me laugh about this is, how many other times should a member of Parliament have been arrested, but not.
I think people have done worse than this and never been arrested. I do not know what has been leaked, but whatever it was was leaked for one purpose and one purpose only.....to be in the public interest.
I have heard that it is something to do with immigration. Well seeing as that is a hot potatoe subject, where zillions have been let in, another revelation is the last thing this Government needs.....sweep it inder the carpet Labour.
But of course this Government think we are all too silly to understand that.
As for being a democracy, is that the same democracy where you are forced to vote with your party, even though it may be against your own principles?
Democracy my arse.
What makes it worse is they apparently used anti-terrorism police to conduct the arrest and search! :shock: :shock:
As "call me" Dave said in his early day press confo.. "if they wanted to speak to him, all they needed to do was pick up the phone"!
In the meantime, some poor kid is being beaten to a pulp in their cot and the "executive" say that it's nothing to do with them!!
:roll:
I suppose one saving grace is that Damien Green is still alive.. maybe it wasn't the same team who shot poor old De Menzies
A parting shot from Sir Ian Blair perhaps on the day of his departure from the Met? Damien probably lit a bonfire and the smoke drifted over his gaff.
As "call me" Dave said in his early day press confo.. "if they wanted to speak to him, all they needed to do was pick up the phone"!
In the meantime, some poor kid is being beaten to a pulp in their cot and the "executive" say that it's nothing to do with them!!
:roll: I suppose one saving grace is that Damien Green is still alive.. maybe it wasn't the same team who shot poor old De Menzies
A parting shot from Sir Ian Blair perhaps on the day of his departure from the Met? Damien probably lit a bonfire and the smoke drifted over his gaff.
Sex God
HO Ho Ho! No it's not Christmas. I'd just love to hear the reverse indignation from the Conservatives if their Government business was leaked. In fact I've seen the witch-hunts when they were in power.
The fact is civil servants are employed to do the Government's business and to not blabber about it.
Anybody has the right to request information under the Freedom of Information Act and it can only be witheld for specified reasons - National Security - Commercial confidentiality etc.
MPs are privileged to be able to ask questions in the Commons - so obtaining the information by this means is questionable at best and probably reprehensible.
Serves him right and his sanctimonious performance at the interview is laughable. As a Shadow Minister he ought to know better. I'd sack him if I was Cameron.
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The fact is civil servants are employed to do the Government's business and to not blabber about it.
Anybody has the right to request information under the Freedom of Information Act and it can only be witheld for specified reasons - National Security - Commercial confidentiality etc.
MPs are privileged to be able to ask questions in the Commons - so obtaining the information by this means is questionable at best and probably reprehensible.
Serves him right and his sanctimonious performance at the interview is laughable. As a Shadow Minister he ought to know better. I'd sack him if I was Cameron.
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Quote by westerross
HO Ho Ho! No it's not Christmas. I'd just love to hear the reverse indignation from the Conservatives if their Government business was leaked. In fact I've seen the witch-hunts when they were in power.
The fact is civil servants are employed to do the Government's business and to not blabber about it.
Anybody has the right to request information under the Freedom of Information Act and it can only be witheld for specified reasons - National Security - Commercial confidentiality etc.
MPs are privileged to be able to ask questions in the Commons - so obtaining the information by this means is questionable at best and probably reprehensible.
Serves him right and his sanctimonious performance at the interview is laughable. As a Shadow Minister he ought to know better. I'd sack him if I was Cameron.
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Witchhunts there may have been but I don't remember any Labour politicians being arrested by counter terrorism police for receiving leaked information.
MPs may well be privileged to ask questions in the House but quite often the questions are only able to be asked as a result of leaked information. Damian Green only put into the public domain material that he thought was in the public interest.....and I for one hope that MPs continue to do this. The day when the government is unable to be held to account is the day we will truly be living in a Stalinesque Britain.
Don’t see the big deal in all this, if anything it just shows how low MP’s will go to try and get votes, and that’s all MP’s, Personaly in the present climate i would like to see them working together, but it seems brownie points really do come before the people of this once great country. When and how we go to war is also in the publics interest but that doesn’t mean all the details should be made public.
As for anti-terror police being involved, well it was government information that was leaked regardless of what it was? Although the same can be said for a few harmless protesters who decide to protest close to Westminster, so why is it now a big deal because its an MP? Should they be treated differently?
We can just call for another inquiry, while moaning about the economy at the same time, it seems that all us tax payers do is pay for inquiries but moan about the funding on other things. Seems as a nation we’re content with blowing our economy on the past rather than concentrating on the future?
As for anti-terror police being involved, well it was government information that was leaked regardless of what it was? Although the same can be said for a few harmless protesters who decide to protest close to Westminster, so why is it now a big deal because its an MP? Should they be treated differently?
We can just call for another inquiry, while moaning about the economy at the same time, it seems that all us tax payers do is pay for inquiries but moan about the funding on other things. Seems as a nation we’re content with blowing our economy on the past rather than concentrating on the future?
Quote by kentswingers777
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. I do not know what has been leaked, but whatever it was was leaked for one purpose and one purpose only.....to be in the public interest.
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no it was done by a person trying to raise his own profile...... fact is he is so far up his own arse he will have to stick a toothbrush up his backside to clean his teeth tomorrow
Sex God
Quote by Max777
The day when the government is unable to be held to account is the day we will truly be living in a Stalinesque Britain.
I understand what you're saying but that is why we have the Freedom of Information Act not the 'Let's leak what the civil servant feels indignant about Act'.
I can tell you without any hesitation that a leaky culture is the road to misinformation and ultimately ruin. And I include Governments in that - nearly all Gov'ts will leak information too - this is also pernicious.
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Quote by westerross
The day when the government is unable to be held to account is the day we will truly be living in a Stalinesque Britain.
I understand what you're saying but that is why we have the Freedom of Information Act not the 'Let's leak what the civil servant feels indignant about Act'.
I can tell you without any hesitation that a leaky culture is the road to misinformation and ultimately ruin. And I include Governments in that - nearly all Gov'ts will leak information too - this is also pernicious..
I understand what you are saying too Tune but you can't ask quetions about something you know nothing about......and let's face it, Governments of any persuasion will not volunteer information. Have you ever tried asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act? It's not as simple as you may think.
Quote by markz
rules are there for good reason
In my experience they're there to protect the arses of the people who created the rules in the first place
So now its god's fault........
God didn't create rules ........... SHE created the world in about a week! :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Quote by blonde
rules are there for good reason
In my experience they're there to protect the arses of the people who created the rules in the first place
So now its god's fault........
God didn't create rules ........... SHE created the world in about a week! :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Typical woman, always fucking rushing.
If God had been a bloke he'd have taken a fortnight and got it right!
Quote by Peanut
rules are there for good reason
In my experience they're there to protect the arses of the people who created the rules in the first place
So now its god's fault........
God didn't create rules ........... SHE created the world in about a week! :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Typical woman, always fucking rushing.
If God had been a bloke he'd have taken a fortnight and got it right!
proof he didn't create you then........ :roll:
Quote by markz
rules are there for good reason
In my experience they're there to protect the arses of the people who created the rules in the first place
So now its god's fault........
God didn't create rules ........... SHE created the world in about a week! :giggle:
Sam xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Typical woman, always fucking rushing.
If God had been a bloke he'd have taken a fortnight and got it right!
proof he didn't create you then........ :roll:
Wherever did you get the notion that he might have done? :roll:
Quote by deancannock
So then, lets see if we have got this right.. Damian Green telephoned the Acting Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police (or someone of similar standing) and demanded that he be arrested at his home by anti-terror police and that, as well as his home, his office in the Palace of Westminster be searched which requires considerable consent as it is a Royal Palace.
Or were you referring to someone else being so far up their own arse I wonder
On the other hand, Tony Benn is a Politician who really can be respected and even he is complaining of a "direct attack on Parliamentary democracy by the police".
Tony Benn is no "friend" of the Conservatives.
I know who's account I would rather settle on.
Sex God
Quote by Max777
The day when the government is unable to be held to account is the day we will truly be living in a Stalinesque Britain.
I understand what you're saying but that is why we have the Freedom of Information Act not the 'Let's leak what the civil servant feels indignant about Act'.
I can tell you without any hesitation that a leaky culture is the road to misinformation and ultimately ruin. And I include Governments in that - nearly all Gov'ts will leak information too - this is also pernicious..
I understand what you are saying too Tune but you can't ask quetions about something you know nothing about......and let's face it, Governments of any persuasion will not volunteer information. Have you ever tried asking for information under the Freedom of Information Act? It's not as simple as you may think.
If he's a Shadow Minister and he knows nothing about the subject then he should get the sack.
It is very easy to ask for information under the FoI Act. All you do is send a letter, or email even, to the relevant Minister saying "Under the Freedom of Information Act please provide..." If what you have asked is excluded by the Act that will be explained to you and you then have a opportunity to challenge that. The exclusions are very tightly drawn anyway.
Anyway that's not the point - he's an MP and a Shadow Minister so he has privileged opportunities to ask direct.
I will agree that the action taken by the police does seem to be draconian but then I don't know the nature of the material and I would guess that there is more in there that would be visible to the public at the moment.
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Quote by westerross
If he's a Shadow Minister and he knows nothing about the subject then he should get the sack.
It is very easy to ask for information under the FoI Act. All you do is send a letter, or email even, to the relevant Minister saying "Under the Freedom of Information Act please provide..." If what you have asked is excluded by the Act that will be explained to you and you then have a opportunity to challenge that. The exclusions are very tightly drawn anyway.
Anyway that's not the point - he's an MP and a Shadow Minister so he has privileged opportunities to ask direct.
I will agree that the action taken by the police does seem to be draconian but then I don't know the nature of the material and I would guess that there is more in there that would be visible to the public at the moment.
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Even a Shadow Minister will not be privy to Government Information if the Government does not release it.....and they are very unlikely to voluntarilly release anything that's potentially embarrassing. The information that was leaked was hardly a threat to state security... Home Office knew about licences for 5,000 illegal workers
Illegal immigrant working in House of Commons
List of Labour rebels against 42-day detention plan
Home Secretary's letter warning recession could lead to rise in crime.
All Governments will leak information when it suits them so what goes around comes around.
As to the Freedom of Information Act, I have actually made such a request and if "they" don't want to release the information they can find endless reasons why not to do so or release heavily edited versions so as to make it virtually worthless.
Sex God
Max, I don't believe everything I read in the newspapers and I'd be surprised if that's all that was leaked but we'll never know that so no more to said I guess.
Your experience of FoI is different to mine. I know they blank off things but that is usually to ensure individuals are protected under the Data Protection Act or that deleted info is excluded for another valid reason.
I agree Gov'ts leak info and I have already said that it is just as bad if not worse. So I'm glad we agree on one thing at least.
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Your experience of FoI is different to mine. I know they blank off things but that is usually to ensure individuals are protected under the Data Protection Act or that deleted info is excluded for another valid reason.
I agree Gov'ts leak info and I have already said that it is just as bad if not worse. So I'm glad we agree on one thing at least.
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Quote by westerross
Snip...
Anyway that's not the point - he's an MP and a Shadow Minister so he has privileged opportunities to ask direct.
I will agree that the action taken by the police does seem to be draconian but then I don't know the nature of the material and I would guess that there is more in there that would be visible to the public at the moment.
He needs to know what questions to ask in the first place.. hence the requirement for information behind the scenes - the stuff HMG would find embarrassing.
That's what his job is; after all, that's what most of the Labour front bench did when they were members of HM loyal opposition.
The fact he has been asking awkward questions proves that he is doing his job and that is the point that is galling the executive so much.
This is an abuse of power. Jaqui Smith is behind this without a doubt. She tried also to implicate the Mayor of London but he was too clever for that.
It is SHE who must accept responsibility for this imho and she should resign forthwith.
Tune, I am just concerned that this is a very worrying development and it does smack of a police state. It's also very hard to believe that the PM claims that neither he nor any ministers had any prior knowledge when Cameron, Boris Johnson and the Speaker were all given prior warning.
In a perfect world, there would be no leaks of any kind but then again, in a perfect world the government of the day would be open and honest.
In a perfect world, there would be no leaks of any kind but then again, in a perfect world the government of the day would be open and honest.
Quote by Max777
Tune, I am just concerned that this is a very worrying development and it does smack of a police state. It's also very hard to believe that the PM claims that neither he nor any ministers had any prior knowledge when Cameron, Boris Johnson and the Speaker were all given prior warning.
In a perfect world, there would be no leaks of any kind but then again, in a perfect world the government of the day would be open and honest.
What max777 said :thumbup:
