Swinger or cheater?

23 May 2012

Quote by Trevaunance
Till death us do part in sickness and in health

While I agree with what you wrote I couldn't stiffle a wry smile at this line. I believe as part of the overall ceremony it reads 'in sickness and in health, foresaking all others, till death do you part'.
ironic eh wink

Well yea that bit too, and certainly at the weddings I have been to involving swingers that bit always causes a few smiles from the swinging guests, discreetly of course because the place is usually full of vanilla family and friends too, of course in this day and age I believe you can write your own vows so that bit probably gets left out, It probably wasn't a good bit to input into what I was saying, but if someone questioned me about that I would say we made our vows with mutual consent and we swing with mutual consent.
That said my wife does not approve of my swinging lifestyle so she never consented but I don't give a toss about that lol

and maybe I should add that though still married to her I havent seen her for over 15 years :wink: and became a swinger after that time.

23 May 2012

Quote by Inanna
It is really interesting to read so many different views on this question. We don't want to throw another opinion into the mix. But we will share a more general view about debates like this one.
In general in life, both of us try very hard not to judge other people - everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions. Without wishing to get too philosophical, we don't believe in the idea of a universal morality. We believe that everyone has their own unique moral code, which is developed by a combination of factors and experiences, including upbringing, social environment, social conditioning, life experiences, and a raft of other internal and external influences. It is human nature to surround ourselves with people who have similar moral codes to our own, and this inevitably shapes social morality and results in fascinating variations in morality across cultures. However, it is rare even for very close couples to share the exact same views on every moral question. It is impossible therefore to expect everyone to share the same opinion on a question like this.
Our view is that provided you make your decisions based on what you feel is morally acceptable for YOU, whether you are making decisions as a single, a couple or as one part of a couple (with or without the other's knowledge), who cares what anyone else thinks? We cannot live our lives based on what is right for others; we can only strive to do what is right for us.
In short, if you feel comfortable playing with someone who is in a relationship where their partner either doesn't know or does knows but doesn't want to play, then go for it. If not, then don't. Whether or not you consider this to be "swinging" seems pretty irrelevant - what matters is what is right for you. (And now for an opinion...) What is important is that we all try not to judge others based on what is right for us. After all, there are lots of people out there who would judge every single one of us for even being members of a site like this! We like to think that people on this site are pretty broad-minded and that this is the kind of environment where people can have fun without worrying about being judged.
Live and let live, people! :-)

23 May 2012

Quote by MidsCouple24
It is really interesting to read so many different views on this question. We don't want to throw another opinion into the mix. But we will share a more general view about debates like this one.
In general in life, both of us try very hard not to judge other people - everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions. Without wishing to get too philosophical, we don't believe in the idea of a universal morality. We believe that everyone has their own unique moral code, which is developed by a combination of factors and experiences, including upbringing, social environment, social conditioning, life experiences, and a raft of other internal and external influences. It is human nature to surround ourselves with people who have similar moral codes to our own, and this inevitably shapes social morality and results in fascinating variations in morality across cultures. However, it is rare even for very close couples to share the exact same views on every moral question. It is impossible therefore to expect everyone to share the same opinion on a question like this.
Our view is that provided you make your decisions based on what you feel is morally acceptable for YOU, whether you are making decisions as a single, a couple or as one part of a couple (with or without the other's knowledge), who cares what anyone else thinks? We cannot live our lives based on what is right for others; we can only strive to do what is right for us.
In short, if you feel comfortable playing with someone who is in a relationship where their partner either doesn't know or does knows but doesn't want to play, then go for it. If not, then don't. Whether or not you consider this to be "swinging" seems pretty irrelevant - what matters is what is right for you. (And now for an opinion...) What is important is that we all try not to judge others based on what is right for us. After all, there are lots of people out there who would judge every single one of us for even being members of a site like this! We like to think that people on this site are pretty broad-minded and that this is the kind of environment where people can have fun without worrying about being judged.
Live and let live, people! :-)

Absolutimon :thumbup: but I think the grey area comes about when people who are cheating are not upfront and honest about it therefore not giving those who don't want to be involved in it a chance not to be.
You're right-obviously, if you only want to play with genuine singles, genuine couples, and/or one part of a couple where the other person consents, it does make things difficult when someone is not 100% honest about their status. However, ultimately it is not possible to control the decisions and actions of others and there's only so much we can do to check that a person we are speaking to on the site is being genuine and upfront.
Also, like most things, there are degrees of honesty - what one person may consider to be dishonest, another may consider to be a white lie. And some people may feel that they have been as honest as they need to be on the site and that other information about their relationship or situation is nobody else's business. The different views (or moral codes) about what it means to be "honest" therefore magnify the difficulty in this grey area.
Ultimately, each one of us needs to decide the extent to which we feel comfortable to meet with and/or play with and/or communicate with any other person that we meet through this site. There are obviously things that can be done to try to confirm the status of the people we are interested in (and some people have explained in this thread what rules they have). But, short of demanding proof of ID and a marriage (or civil partnership) certificate, there's no guarantee that two people are actually a couple (and not two halves of two couples), and how does one ever know for sure that a person is single? And none of this deals with other things that may go against our own sense of morality (e.g. You could be meeting with a genuine couple where they appear to both consent, but one party is actually manipulating and controlling the other...)
For some people, the risk of unwittingly participating in "cheating" may be enough to put them off a site like this altogether. For others, it may be enough to follow their own rules and try their best.
There just are no black and white answer to questions of morality like this!
Lilith xx

23 May 2012

Quote by Inanna
Whether or not you consider this to be "swinging" seems pretty irrelevant

A well-written post, but I must note: swinging is meant to be based on openess and respect, not deceipt and manipulation. To those who congregate here strictly to get off, yes, this is irrelevant. But to those who come here to mix with kindred spirits, sharing on these basic tenets is paramount (forgive me for being idealistic, still a newbie after all). To me whether somebody can implement these successfully is not so important, as long as they aspire to it. But I don't want to affiliate myself with those that aggresively disregard these. Also as Mids said, the particular subset who misrepresents their situation removes from others the opportunity to make their own decisions regarding this.

23 May 2012

I think lots of people on SH secretly are in a relationship and they won't divulge that on here or to people on here and that's their perogative.
Yes, ideally you wouldn't want to be seen as in support of someone who is cheating on their partner. But we live in a world where lots of immoral things take place such as swinging (being one of them) how can you say cheating is immoral and you don't approve? when realistically swinging is not accepted (generally) and definitely not a moral thing to do (in a lot of peoples opinions)anyway for the most part. I say live and let live.
You would probably half the members on here if they were to have the condition to join that you aren't a "cheater" so what's next "people with children" shouldn't be allowed to swing either? it's just an observation: but we put people into categories and then judge them, common habit for us human beings! lol. We're the judge, jury and executioner to all of those who don't conform to our personal preferences. BUT, No one is perfect so who gave anyone the right to judge each other in this way? As far as I am concerned cheating isn't a very nice thing but it's none of my business whether someone does it or not and I am absolutely 100% certain that a lot of GUYS on here are cheaters but you'd never know because they're NOT going to tell you because they never want to get caught.
I am not disagreeing with the opinions expressed on here so far and please don't disect and analyse what I have said, it's merely an opinion.

23 May 2012

my opinion is that its cheating so dont make arrangements to meet them .. that said when we go to a club there is no profile to view and its rare that i get chatting enough to ask if they are in a relationship

23 May 2012

Quote by notquiteacougar
I think lots of people on SH secretly are in a relationship and they won't divulge that on here or to people on here
*snip* I am absolutely 100% certain that a lot of GUYS on here are cheaters but you'd never know because they're NOT going to tell you because they never want to get caught.
I am not disagreeing with the opinions expressed on here so far and please don't disect and analyse what I have said, it's merely an opinion.

Not just guys. Women cheat too.

23 May 2012

Quote by Freckledbird
I think lots of people on SH secretly are in a relationship and they won't divulge that on here or to people on here
*snip* I am absolutely 100% certain that a lot of GUYS on here are cheaters but you'd never know because they're NOT going to tell you because they never want to get caught.
I am not disagreeing with the opinions expressed on here so far and please don't disect and analyse what I have said, it's merely an opinion.

Not just guys. Women cheat too.
I meant guys in general meaning women and men! sorry should have made it clearer and said people!

23 May 2012

Quote by notquiteacougar
I think lots of people on SH secretly are in a relationship and they won't divulge that on here or to people on here and that's their perogative.
Yes, ideally you wouldn't want to be seen as in support of someone who is cheating on their partner. But we live in a world where lots of immoral things take place such as swinging (being one of them) how can you say cheating is immoral and you don't approve? when realistically swinging is not accepted (generally) and definitely not a moral thing to do (in a lot of peoples opinions)anyway for the most part. I say live and let live.
You would probably half the members on here if they were to have the condition to join that you aren't a "cheater" so what's next "people with children" shouldn't be allowed to swing either? it's just an observation: but we put people into categories and then judge them, common habit for us human beings! lol. We're the judge, jury and executioner to all of those who don't conform to our personal preferences. BUT, No one is perfect so who gave anyone the right to judge each other in this way? As far as I am concerned cheating isn't a very nice thing but it's none of my business whether someone does it or not and I am absolutely 100% certain that a lot of GUYS on here are cheaters but you'd never know because they're NOT going to tell you because they never want to get caught.
I am not disagreeing with the opinions expressed on here so far and please don't disect and analyse what I have said, it's merely an opinion.

So in my world insifnicant as it is to anyone else, cheating is morally wrong and swinging is fine, swinging in my world is doing anything you want with your partners consent, I am human, to be human in my opinion is to have a desire for more, I cannot be a cow and satisfied with eating just grass, I cannot be satisfied with only ever seeing my little corner of the field and never travelling to other fields to see what it is like, I cannot be happy with a little nest in a tree in the field I want a bigger nest with an extension for the family and a spare room for visitors and heating so I dont have to be too hot or too cold my nest has to make me comfortable all of the time, I want variety in my food, a better car, a better standard of living, variety in the places I see, no matter how much I have or experience I want more, that is why we no longer live in caves, we started with caves, then we wanted caves with windows, then we wanted caves with clear floors and no stones to step on, humans always want more always want better, always want variety, and to me swinging is just part of that, I love my partner but when it comes to sex I want more, I want variety and I want diversity, that is the human.

23 May 2012

Quote by notquiteacougar
I think lots of people on SH secretly are in a relationship and they won't divulge that on here or to people on here and that's their perogative.
Yes, ideally you wouldn't want to be seen as in support of someone who is cheating on their partner. But we live in a world where lots of immoral things take place such as swinging (being one of them) how can you say cheating is immoral and you don't approve? when realistically swinging is not accepted (generally) and definitely not a moral thing to do (in a lot of peoples opinions)anyway for the most part. I say live and let live.

You would probably half the members on here if they were to have the condition to join that you aren't a "cheater" so what's next "people with children" shouldn't be allowed to swing either? it's just an observation: but we put people into categories and then judge them, common habit for us human beings! lol. We're the judge, jury and executioner to all of those who don't conform to our personal preferences. BUT, No one is perfect so who gave anyone the right to judge each other in this way? As far as I am concerned cheating isn't a very nice thing but it's none of my business whether someone does it or not and I am absolutely 100% certain that a lot of GUYS on here are cheaters but you'd never know because they're NOT going to tell you because they never want to get caught.
I am not disagreeing with the opinions expressed on here so far and please don't disect and analyse what I have said, it's merely an opinion.

Ref the bit in bold. We all judge and we always will and it will continue to happen as it allows us a view on people. Yes I agree a lot of people see swinging as immoral and if they want ot judge me for it then fine I dont give a toss as it does not breach my own moral code. As far as we see it we made a decision together to partake in this lifestyle and by doing so we dont hurt anyone else. It could be argued that if we were outed it could cause issues for our families like our parents being judged for our upbringing or our kids being teased in school. However thats no different to someone comming out as being Gay is it? Her son is gay/a swinger, it must have been how she brought him up. His Dad's a swinger/likes to shag men, isnt that gross. The key difference in what we do is we do not set out with the intention of carrying out acts behind our significant others back. Thats why the two acts are completely different, one is about trust and communication the other is about deciet and covering up.

24 May 2012

Judgements are opinions so in giving an opinion we have ourselves made a judgement.
It's one of the reasons in any post of mine I really try not to put "Blah blah blah well thats in my opinion" As if using those words is shielding me from others judgements thus making my statements acceptable and not debateable to all regardless.
Earlier on in the thread someone mentioned about things being morally acceptable for you individually. what was failed to be mentioned is that in most scenarios I can think of there is a national morality, albeit it may be underlying, into which the populace in general abide by. If it wasn't for this then there would be chaos and we probably would not of evolved much from our origins.
Of course things do change as our acceptance or non acceptance of different issues arise, When these things do then it usually with the acceptance of what is right or wrong changing for an increasing amount of people until a point is reached at which the overwhelming majority view has changed and so what was wrong becomes right or vice versa.
At this point in time, swinging is socially unacceptable, as is cheating, so we swingers stand accused, as do cheaters, of being in the social wrong. There may well become a time when swinging becomes acceptable, I hope not, as then it wouldn't feel so deliciously naughty for Lost, The fact that swinging for my wife and I between us is an accepted practice, and hurts no one, and allows us to partake with other couples in the same situation or with singles (who are facilitators not swingers)that have no obligation to an unknowing another is what makes it slightly different from cheating. Cheating is by definition dishonest whereas swinging isn't and because of this dishonesty cheating will always be wrong and, to a lesser or greater degree, alien to the national morality

24 May 2012

Quote by Lost
Judgements are opinions so in giving an opinion we have ourselves made a judgement.
It's one of the reasons in any post of mine I really try not to put "Blah blah blah well thats in my opinion" As if using those words is shielding me from others judgements thus making my statements acceptable and not debateable to all regardless.
Earlier on in the thread someone mentioned about things being morally acceptable for you individually. what was failed to be mentioned is that in most scenarios I can think of there is a national morality, albeit it may be underlying, into which the populace in general abide by. If it wasn't for this then there would be chaos and we probably would not of evolved much from our origins.
Of course things do change as our acceptance or non acceptance of different issues arise, When these things do then it usually with the acceptance of what is right or wrong changing for an increasing amount of people until a point is reached at which the overwhelming majority view has changed and so what was wrong becomes right or vice versa.
At this point in time, swinging is socially unacceptable, as is cheating, so we swingers stand accused, as do cheaters, of being in the social wrong. There may well become a time when swinging becomes acceptable, I hope not, as then it wouldn't feel so deliciously naughty for Lost, The fact that swinging for my wife and I between us is an accepted practice, and hurts no one, and allows us to partake with other couples in the same situation or with singles (who are facilitators not swingers)that have no obligation to an unknowing another is what makes it slightly different from cheating. Cheating is by definition dishonest whereas swinging isn't and because of this dishonesty cheating will always be wrong and, to a lesser or greater degree, alien to the national morality

I don't disagree, this is where it defines that swinging is socially unacceptable where as cheating to the majority of people is imoral and wrong, there lies the difference.
However, I know many close friends and not so close friends who have cheated on their partner and I do not see myself as the person who should judge them. It's none of my business and I won't intefere and despite it still being wrong most people have a reason and of course should deal with that reason, instead of cheating.... or at least that's what I think anyway.

24 May 2012

Quote by Funlovers2009
In my opinion, you did the right thing.
Many singles on here are attached and are just after a bit of extra fun on the side. I would call that cheating.
If their partner knows, agrees and/or plays too, I would call that swinging.

I also agree with you.
Whats the difference between him going to a bar and meeting a girl, and him meeting someone here and not telling his partner?
I think he took it as well its my choice to go have fun, you are here just for the sex so it doesnt really matter what my background is.
There are a number of guys we have come across here in the same situation.
The only thing that i can say is good about these guys is the fact that at least they tell you, although saying that is he now not likely to mention it to someone else?
Once in a similar posotion we did ask our selves does it really matter if he is attached or not (obviously ignoring the moral factor)?

24 May 2012

For me, swinging is fundamentally about honesty. With that also comes respect...for yourself and other people.
Cheating, I would suggest, is very different from that. wink

24 May 2012

Quote by Lost
Judgements are opinions so in giving an opinion we have ourselves made a judgement.
It's one of the reasons in any post of mine I really try not to put "Blah blah blah well thats in my opinion" As if using those words is shielding me from others judgements thus making my statements acceptable and not debateable to all regardless.
Earlier on in the thread someone mentioned about things being morally acceptable for you individually. what was failed to be mentioned is that in most scenarios I can think of there is a national morality, albeit it may be underlying, into which the populace in general abide by. If it wasn't for this then there would be chaos and we probably would not of evolved much from our origins.
Of course things do change as our acceptance or non acceptance of different issues arise, When these things do then it usually with the acceptance of what is right or wrong changing for an increasing amount of people until a point is reached at which the overwhelming majority view has changed and so what was wrong becomes right or vice versa.
At this point in time, swinging is socially unacceptable, as is cheating, so we swingers stand accused, as do cheaters, of being in the social wrong. There may well become a time when swinging becomes acceptable, I hope not, as then it wouldn't feel so deliciously naughty for Lost, The fact that swinging for my wife and I between us is an accepted practice, and hurts no one, and allows us to partake with other couples in the same situation or with singles (who are facilitators not swingers)that have no obligation to an unknowing another is what makes it slightly different from cheating. Cheating is by definition dishonest whereas swinging isn't and because of this dishonesty cheating will always be wrong and, to a lesser or greater degree, alien to the national morality

You're absolutely right that there are things that are majority views on right and wrong in every society - nationally, internationally and also on a more local level. Probably the most obvious example of this is criminal law - there is a very close relationship between socially accepted morality and law in that context. Religion is another obvious example of shared morality becoming enshrined in a system of norms that many people choose to live their lives by. Our point earlier was merely that, alongside these more widespread moral norms are our own, internal moral norms, which we each develop individually. The social context in which we live is, of course, one factor that shapes our own personal sense of morality. Different people are influenced to different degrees by external factors like what is considered within society to be right or wrong. But, ultimately, each of us will make decisions based on what we believe is right or wrong.
We like what you say about hoping swinging never becomes socially acceptable though! It would definitely make it far less fun!! :-)
Lilith xx

2 Jun 2012

Quote by Toots
Now that is freaky or rather your comments are, jeepers.
For the purposes of your post only: If I was in a new relationship with you and you ''informed me of the websites you have profiles on'' and that you ''will remove the account or hide the profile whichever she prefers' and you would delete it' (profile i assume) 'in front of me or show it's been deleted'
Well I'd be heading for the hills, thankful of the lucky escape from a person that outwardly appears to want to control things right from the start and seems maybe a little possessive in their actions. I'd be dust and then some.
If a relationship to you means that you 'do not not cheat' then simply don't cheat ??? Why the need for all the drama? Your stated actions above would not demonstrate loyalty or trust but more your insecurity and perhaps more worrying a little bit of a control freakesque about you.
Trust is earned it isn't brought about by declarations of intent.

so you prefer to play the detective game, when you find out some months down the line that said partner has profile on x or y site, and would be dammed despite proof that said partner had not visited site since your union??
this is where YOU would take control of the relationship Toots!! making outlandish demands as to why and what
yours toots is a very control orientated scenario and im afraid TY was dammed if he did and even more dammed if he didn't
is trust earned from honesty or sweeping a dirty little secret under the carpet in the hope it isn't discovered dunno

2 Jun 2012

There is another way to look at it...which is neither right or wrong...you can decide.
Some people live in the past, some in the future. Things seem a lot clearer to me if you live in the moment...especially if that moment is 10minutes at a time lol

If you are a positive person then you'll be looking for good/fun times and if you are respectful then you'll aim not to hurt anyone.
I reckon if you add communication and honesty then anything is possible wink

2 Jun 2012

Quote by Derek_kelp
There is another way to look at it...which is neither right or wrong...you can decide.
Some people live in the past, some in the future. Things seem a lot clearer to me if you live in the moment...especially if that moment is 10minutes at a time
If you are a positive person then you'll be looking for good/fun times and if you are respectful then you'll aim not to hurt anyone.
I reckon if you add communication and honesty then anything is possible

that works for me, although some people might argue the case that you are indirectly hurting someone. The way I see it, if someone is going to cheat on their partner, they're gonna do it anyway, whether it's with you or AN Other, so if you wanna shag 'em, shag 'em.
Just don't get caught.

2 Jun 2012

Quote by Derek_kelp
There is another way to look at it...which is neither right or wrong...you can decide.
Some people live in the past, some in the future. Things seem a lot clearer to me if you live in the moment...especially if that moment is 10minutes at a time
If you are a positive person then you'll be looking for good/fun times and if you are respectful then you'll aim not to hurt anyone.
I reckon if you add communication and honesty then anything is possible

you are very right Derek live for the moment but you also need the future for things to look forward too
i for one never return to the past as its done and can't be changed
my ex was a little like toots in her approach to things there always had to be an angle,it always seemed like there needed to be a trap and she could never see things for what they was or the good intentions that where meant (no offence toots but reading what you wrote your a carbon for my ex )
with tyracers approach its an honest one but also a double edged sword do you tell any new partner especially a vanilla one, you have used dating sites (when you mean swingers) or do you tell them it was swingers sites or do you hang up your boots and hope they don't find out your grubby secret, knowing the devastation its likely to cause to any vanilla relationship should it come out
what was it men are from mars women are from Venus
it would be interesting to to reverse the roles and see how toots would manage the situation should she move into a vanilla relationship and how and if she would be honest and upfront enough to tell her now partner and in what way ?