Swinging irresponsibly and selfishly.

Sex God

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

Quote by naughtynymphos1
I agree with you ES my one and only rule is that i don't meet people who are playing away tho i have found out after that i have met 2 married guys who both told me they was single, i felt that these guys totally disrespected my rules as a swinger, swinging is not about saying what evers needed to get a 'shag' its about respecting other swingers and their own personal rules and limits and if someone as a swinger says they do not do something then i expect that to be respected, other wise we are not swingers we are all just after a easy shag, the respect of other is what makes us swingers and not just quick shag seekers surely
personally have no problem with married and cheating people, even tho i would not meet them and don't agree with it but what they do is their choice, what i do have a problem with is the ones who say they aresingle just to get a meet, no matter what ur back ground is be it single, couple, married and cheating or other wise swinging is about trust and respect and if you have none of that you have no place being here

In a nutshell and that's my entire point. Thank you NN hunni kiss

naughtynymphos1

Sex God

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

Quote by EagerSlut
I agree with you ES my one and only rule is that i don't meet people who are playing away tho i have found out after that i have met 2 married guys who both told me they was single, i felt that these guys totally disrespected my rules as a swinger, swinging is not about saying what evers needed to get a 'shag' its about respecting other swingers and their own personal rules and limits and if someone as a swinger says they do not do something then i expect that to be respected, other wise we are not swingers we are all just after a easy shag, the respect of other is what makes us swingers and not just quick shag seekers surely
personally have no problem with married and cheating people, even tho i would not meet them and don't agree with it but what they do is their choice, what i do have a problem with is the ones who say they aresingle just to get a meet, no matter what ur back ground is be it single, couple, married and cheating or other wise swinging is about trust and respect and if you have none of that you have no place being here

In a nutshell and that's my entire point. Thank you NN hunni kiss

your welcome, now when can i collect my shag lol

:lol:

duncanlondon

Sex God

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

of course, you're joking.
it wouldn't be right to think that all that was said to get a shag!
rolleyes

MandH

Sex God

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

phew!!!! ........ lots of people have said things that we would agree with 100%..
Fact is with what we are into as a couple we actually prefer players and married guys..... it generally saves on any potential complications, but we don't like married guys pretending to be single (we can normally suss them out, get them to be honest and then no problem)...
Before the internet how did swingers meet? .... clubs?, dinner parties?, and ad in the personal colunms??
The internet thing generally means we all "feel in one big happy family" even though most of us have never met and quite probably never will. Maybe what is needed is a health warning at the door before you enter......." Warning your emotions could be messed with unless you are very very careful and know what you are looking for"

Unknown User

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

Today the search button is my friend (for once) biggrin

Quote by PoloLady
We are all here to do what we are all here to do... the only real rules in my book are...
1 - Be honest with the people you come in contact with about what you want and why you are here.
2 - Be honest with yourself about why you are doing it.
3 - Only do what you are happy to do.

You can only be responsible for yourself!
Whilst ES may think I am blunt... I prefer straight talking wink

I agree 100% with Blokes post - this is no place for people with attachment issues to play at being emotionally detached. Sooner or later shit WILL happen.
I agree with Blue that people are indeed 'very sad' if they lie and deceive with intent just to get a sniff.
However, back to something in the original post... that 'these' deceivers are amongst us. Of course they are - someone being a 'regular' on the forum (or going to munches) means jack shit in terms of guaranteeing honesty.
The only person I have encountered to have not understood the word 'NO' (3 times) at a party was a 'regular' on the forum.
The only person to try and fuck me (without a condom) whilst I was asleep in someone's house was a 'regular' on the forum.
The people who have made me feel the most uncomfortable with over-familiarphysical contact when I have literally just met them for the first time and pretty much don't know them from Adam/Eve... yep you guessed it... regular users of the forum.
Have I ever been sent misleading photos to encourage me to meet someone from the forum - yes.
And the list goes on....
Is this sort of thing widespread - I don't think so. But it just goes to show wherever you are... you can bump into a (I so want to use the 'C' word) person which you would sooner have avoided.
Just because a 'username' is familiar to you and they write happy-clappy posts, both male and female are just as likely to be a complete tosser/bunny-boiler/user/deceiver/liar/whatever as any other person you may come across elsewhere.
To extend a quote from the X-Files.... the truth is out there, just don't assume it is going to be handed to you on a silver plate every time.

Unknown User

0 likes 23 Sep 2006

Quote by Scandal
Good thread Eager, I think you've done the whole forum a favour by raising this issue now.
I think this has been coming for some time, the forum has changed from what it appeared to be a few years ago. Although i think the site is better than it used to be before the takeover I think the Cafe in particular has got worse and I'll explain why. Before I do that though, I want to point out that what I say here is not aimed at any individual. Despite what anyone may think of me ( don't go there :scared: ) I always try to tell it like I see it, if people don't like that, tough, you can only live your life one way! If I have a disagreement with anyone I'll say it to your face, or cyberface in this instance i.e. in PM and no Dammie, I don't have a downer on the whole place, just some of the behaviour it induces.
I think there is a big lovvie thing going on, Polo is right when she says the advice given to newbies is to get yourself known on the forum and get your name down for a munch. Well I did that when I joined, enthusiastically joined in the banter and went to munches. However, what I found was that I wasn't achieving what I came here for. What was happening was that I was being drawn into a circle of forum and munch friends that I neither needed or wanted. I wasn't meeting people for recreational sex.
Alot of this was going on:
In my opnion and so very often, you see people posting 'thank you to all of my real friends here' type stuff. I'd seriously question this - are they your 'real' friends? Have you met them?

People were all of a sudden best mates but they were only forum mates. When I first googled Swinging I wasn't expecting to find a group of people who'd decided to start talking about their electricity bills or wars or their broken microwave and yet I was drawn into this.
On reflection, how bizarre!!! As the Cafe has developed it's the advice given to newbies BUT it's also the norm. Talk about your lecky bill, so what develops is something like, "I've got a 5 trillion pound lecky bill - what should I do" and the reply is this: Awww poor bless
passionkiss

:therethere: :laughabove: silly

hwoar:

:lickface:
and people feel comfortated, like they have real friends who really care about them, but really they want to get into their knickers, boxers or whatever else! wink

It's the way of the forum ...... and it goes on and on and on and on and on! and then people feel like they have comradeship and sympathy and all of a sudden all their spare time is spent on here going
:passionkiss: :therethere: :laughabove: :phwoar: :smackbottom: :hump: :worship: :kiss: :lickface:
and what happens ........ they feel let down when their cyber buddies turn out to be something else in real life!

What actually happens is that the site and the whole aim of being here in the first place can turn into it's opposite, hence:

Quote by Bloke2005
I think that anyone who is in a position to get emotionally hurt, jealous or just plain confused should delete their profile from the site now - this really isn't the place for marriage guidance or counselling of any shape or form and yet it happens so often - people both asking for and giving it...

If people fuck with other people's heads and life's that's unfortunate but it's life in the big city, my boss does it. But don't expect, just because you visit "Swinging Heaven"life to be any different from walking down the street. Here, she says it well and cos she's a sexy bird gets more cudos for saying it! :P

Quote by PoloLady
He was probably just following the advice of the 'softies' (for want of a better term).
How many times have you seen advice given to guys on how to gain the confidence of people ?
How many times have you seen people being given instructions on how to appear less predatory?
Oh that may not have been the intention of the advice but it all boils down to be little more that instruction on how to 'appear' to fit - It usually starts with "get yourself known on the forum and get your name down for a munch".
We are all adults here and make choices - some good , some shite.

I'm here for the ride with a few laffs along the way but I'm honest, really honest! But cummon folks, this is life! :wink:
My opinion for what it's worth :?
I didn't stand a hope in hell of putting it better my self :thumbup:

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

I've been trying not to post further on this issue. confused

At the end of the day if people are expected to play by certain rules (other than basic manners and respect), whether it be at a munch or in private, each person is responsible for making those rules clear. Not just the man, or the female or whatever. Men get hurt too, but does anyone feel it's worthy of a vendetta spanning two different websites? dunno

Has the female in question (let's be honest, this is what this is all about) expressed a wish that this be turned into a witch hunt with subterfuge and whispering gossip in the hopes that the male will be ousted permanently?
I canâ€™t believe that every single person on here has never inadvertently hurt somebody. How would we all view each other if we all knew each others mistakes and secrets â€“ however long ago they may have happened.
Whilst I am in no way discounting either of the two peoples feelings and thoughts on this matter â€“ it should be for them to sort out.
IN EDIT: If time wasn't a great healer then there wouldn't be some people on this forum now. The stuff I was told 'privately' when I first joined. Luckily I have the strength of mind to make my own judgements of people. Let's hope others do.
And yes this was a post and be dammed moment - and I fully intend to take any stick that may come my way.

EagerSlut

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Kiss
I've been trying not to post further on this issue.
At the end of the day if people are expected to play by certain rules (other than basic manners and respect), whether it be at a munch or in private, each person is responsible for making those rules clear. Not just the man, or the female or whatever. Men get hurt too, but does anyone feel it's worthy of a vendetta spanning two different websites?
Has the female in question (let's be honest, this is what this is all about) expressed a wish that this be turned into a witch hunt with subterfuge and whispering gossip in the hopes that the male will be ousted permanently? I canâ€™t believe that every single person on here has never inadvertently hurt somebody. How would we all view each other if we all knew each others mistakes and secrets â€“ however long ago they may have happened.
Whilst I am in no way discounting either of the two peoples feelings and thoughts on this matter â€“ it should be for them to sort out.
IN EDIT: If time wasn't a great healer then there wouldn't be some people on this forum now. The stuff I was told 'privately' when I first joined. Luckily I have the strength of mind to make my own judgements of people. Let's hope others do.
And yes this was a post and be dammed moment - and I fully intend to take any stick that may come my way.

I'd just like to make it clear that this is neither a vendetta spanning two different web sites, nor an attempt to oust someone. It's a warning and discussion about irresponsible swinging as the subject title says. There's nothing unusual about such topics being posted in more than one place so please don't anyone read into it anything more than that. Thanks.

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Well maybe that should have been made a little clearer? I am a member of 'over the road' and have read the entire thread. Some have mentioned in the thread itself on SS that they know 'who' the male is who is being talked about. If this is totally incorrect then why was that not pointed out? I've also had conversations in private with several members about this, and I can't believe that we've all got the wrong end of the stick - or are being allowed to anyway.
You admit you haven't been around on SH for a while EagerSlut, and I have no ill feeling towards you as I do not know you.
However I would ask you to question your motives for returning 'home' and posting this duplicate thread about the male that itâ€™s not really about. confused

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Kiss
However I would ask you to question your motives for returning 'home' and posting this duplicate thread about the male that itâ€™s not really about.

Knowing ES as I do, I would imagine that the whole thing is just to highten awareness that this sort of thing happens smile

Personally I know about someone in a similar position and I would dearly love to be able to name and shame but I cant... I cant even do it in PM either before you lot start PM'ing me :lol2: but it annoys the shit out of me that I cant warn people about this person sad

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Darkfire
can one of the Mods slap a 48 hour ban on me please?, yes, seriously :thumbup:

i think you had probably best do this to me at the moment too mad

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by earthchild
can one of the Mods slap a 48 hour ban on me please?, yes, seriously :thumbup:

i think you had probably best do this to me at the moment too mad

I must admit that comments like that really do intrigue me, whilst also bewildering me somewhat confused

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

its not in reference to anything someone has posted on the thread, more to stop me going off on a one through a very recent experience
ok maybe not ban me but tie me up and gag me rolleyes

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Shireen_Mids
However I would ask you to question your motives for returning 'home' and posting this duplicate thread about the male that itâ€™s not really about.

Knowing ES as I do, I would imagine that the whole thing is just to highten awareness that this sort of thing happens smile

Thanks Shireen, I repsect you viewpoint.
As I stated I don't know ES, so if anybody, if they know me or not, has a genuine issue with anything I've said I would ask you to please either air your view or send me a PM. I will always hold my hands up if I've made a mistake and am more than willing to have my mind changed.
:thumbup:

Jas_Tim

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by EagerSlut
I've seen it happen recently elsewhere but the person responsible is here as well. I'm sure he's not the only one so be careful.
I'm very angry about this because he totally abused the trust of a friend of mine and manipulated her to serve his own selfish ends.

I have to say Kiss has got a point - people are gossiping about it and asking who is it, etc. The bit I have quoted is what I feel makes it personal.
It may not have been intended as a dig at an individual, but the nature of both sites means that people are there working it out and discussing it.
From a general viewpoint I have to say Bloke's and Polo's summed it up pretty much as to how I feel on the subject.
Jas
XXX

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Kiss
As I stated I don't know ES, so if anybody, if they know me or not, has a genuine issue with anything I've said I would ask you to please either air your view or send me a PM. I will always hold my hands up if I've made a mistake and am more than willing to have my mind changed.
:thumbup:

I would sooner have an opinion and be damned than feel I had to sit and wait to be told what my opinion should be smile

All we can ever do is say things as we see them at the time. Having an opinion that differs from someone else's only means you are standing in a different place to them and looking at the same thing from another perspective. wink

Babe__n__a__biker

Warming the Bed

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

I think that this male should be outed so other females can ignore him and maybe the moderator or whoever could do something about known shits :!: Thanks for posting this this is good advice for new members and all in general.

Jas_Tim

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Babe-n-a-biker
I think that this male should be outed so other females can ignore him and maybe the moderator or whoever could do something about known shits :!: Thanks for posting this this is good advice for new members and all in general.

Not even a remote possibility - you are not allowed to name and shame on this forum.
Also you don't know both sides of the story, only those involved do.
I don't, so I'm certainly not willing to condemn anyone or make the situation worse for those concerned by making it even more public.
Jas
XXX

Jags

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Babe-n-a-biker
I think that this male should be outed so other females can ignore him and maybe the moderator or whoever could do something about known shits :!: Thanks for posting this this is good advice for new members and all in general.

ZERO chance of that happening here.

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

I must say Eager that even if it wasn't your intention, the 'jungle-drums' are sounding both here and over the road confused

Some members have even started to second guess who it might be in public ... some have even felt the need to announce that it's not them - this baflled and worried me a bit :?
The PM's are flying, the MSN messages are popping up in windows - peronoally I've ignored them, as I do any gossip, until I have facts that I can draw my own conclusions from :thumbup:
Like other's have already said, there's always two sides to any story and quite often, they are very, very different in this type of situation :?
Seriously though, despite the fact that I hate dishonesty in any shape or form I'm still amazed that people seem somewhat surprised that this happens here... rolleyes

It's like being on BDSM site and saying 'OMG, there's people that want to whip me here'... or a Football Forum and thinking 'Wow, those people are really passionate about that match last week'...
This is a Swinging site and it should come as no shock that people have sex with lots of people without having an allegiance to anyone inparticular... if people came here for love and romance then I'd suggest they go to or whatever it's called as they are likely to get very, very hurt :?
Again, not trying to offend anyone here as I think this is one of the best and most adult debates we've had here for a while biggrin

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Kiss
Thanks Shireen, I repsect you viewpoint.
As I stated I don't know ES, so if anybody, if they know me or not, has a genuine issue with anything I've said I would ask you to please either air your view or send me a PM. I will always hold my hands up if I've made a mistake and am more than willing to have my mind changed.
:thumbup:

I think we all read posts and read them from a personal point of view therefore seeing things differently... It's what makes the world go round biggrin

I respect your viewpoint too kiss

I suppose I am viewing this differently as I dont know who the person in question is, nor have I been party to any of the gossip/PM's etc, so I read it from a very detached perspective... I know it happens and sometimes it gets very very messy and vindictive sad

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by HornyLittleBlonde
Deecee
Just to clarify, when you say "This post" are you referring to the post that started the thread or the post you've quoted

sorry HLB for not coming back to this thread sooner... but ive just been looking at it an feel the need to clarify out that i was talking about the post that started the thread ( and the supplemantal ones encouraging it) I WAS DEFINATELY NOT taking offence with yours..... i totally agree with what you were saying........
moving on. i am amazed and slighlty concerned to have read that this isnt the only place this topic has been raised and that people are apparently "second guessing" who this person might be.......... scandalous when you consider that firstly.... we only have ES's viewpoint given as a 3rd party... possibly without the authority of the protaganists involved......... talk about a "witch hunt"!!!!!!
i fail to see how i myself might not have been a suspect in this scenario..........i hope i'm not......
i think the thread itself was totally wrong in principle...

Smokinjoe

Warming the Bed

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by HornyLittleBlonde
2) 2 people become fuck buddies. They have both agreed they're fuck buddies and see other people, do their own thing.

The female starts to want something more.
The male still wants to be just fb's
The signs of attachment start to show
The male starts dropping hints "you know I like you, but I'm not looking for anything serious"
The female thinks she can change him. She starts getting possessive.
The male bolts.
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
What follows is nothing short of a witch hunt

Precisely! A girl I met recently wanted us to be fuckbuddies....but I turned her down (imagine how hard that was for a single guy! you know what we're like!) for numerous reasons, chief of which is that there is bound to be some emotional attachment from one camp or the other, which will only lead to one of us being very hurt in the future. LIke you say, it may be that the female starts to want something more, to which I don't and it just gets messy. Or even vice versa to be honest. I don't care if the groundrules are laid down "We're just fuckbuddies, its just sex, nothing more", because long term things will change.
Best to be as honest as you can.

EagerSlut

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by DeeCee
i am amazed and slighlty concerned to have read that this isnt the only place this topic has been raised and that people are apparently "second guessing" who this person might be.......... scandalous when you consider that firstly.... we only have ES's viewpoint given as a 3rd party... possibly without the authority of the protaganists involved......... talk about a "witch hunt"!!!!!!
i fail to see how i myself might not have been a suspect in this scenario..........i hope i'm not......
i think the thread itself was totally wrong in principle...

I'm sorry that some people are STILL missing the point and referring to this thread as some kind of witch hunt. It's NOT a witch hunt. The trouble is that by referring to it as such and by posting in this manner they are in fact encouraging gossip. That was most certainly not the original intention.
There are no protagonists or combatants involved.
Everyone's entitled to their view but please.....let's keep a balanced perspective on this matter.
Thank you.
In Edit: If it's felt that it has run its course or is contributing to misinformed gossip then would a mod please lock it.

Unknown User

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by Smokinjoe
Precisely! A girl I met recently wanted us to be fuckbuddies....but I turned her down (imagine how hard that was for a single guy! you know what we're like!) for numerous reasons, chief of which is that there is bound to be some emotional attachment from one camp or the other, which will only lead to one of us being very hurt in the future. LIke you say, it may be that the female starts to want something more, to which I don't and it just gets messy. Or even vice versa to be honest. I don't care if the groundrules are laid down "We're just fuckbuddies, its just sex, nothing more", because long term things will change.
Best to be as honest as you can.

I understand what you are saying - and I am sure you didn't mean it to be such a sweeping generalisation that all 'fuck-buddy' situations end up with one party becoming emotionally attached.
I had one particular fuck-buddy for something like 15 years (on and off). We were very good friends and had great sex, but I can safely say that neither of us felt hurt at any point - not even when we cleared off to have normal relationships with other people and stopped shagging eachother.
I sometimes think people read more into some labels/titles had what they actually mean. Fuck-buddies/swinging partners - to me they are friends/acquaintances I happen to have sex with. The primary reason for the label to be applied is sex - accepting the label carries no other implications or commitments (it just mean I shag 'um more than once).
If a person chooses to only have one fuck-buddy/swinging partner that is their choice â€“ but it should not mean it is a prerequisite that if you make that choice the other party has to follow suit.
Me, I like having a few on the go at once (I like variety) though I tend to find 2 or 3 at a time is enough or it doesnâ€™t leave enough time to play the field a bit (if you know what I mean) wink

EagerSlut

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by varca
I'm thinking of people who "play the field" with the express intention of getting into as many girls' knickers as they can, either singles or in relationships. I'm not talking about people who are self confessed players and are upfront about their intentions.
I'm referring to the types who lie, cheat, flatter and manipulate in pursuit of their objectives, seemingly with no thought or consideration for the feelings, sensibilities and emotions of their targets or feelings of responsibilty about the damage and distress they can cause to those people.
They single out newbie single females for particular attention, viewing them as a soft and easy target.
Is this what swinging is really all about? I think not.
*****Doesn't happen on here? Don't you believe it.
I've seen it happen recently elsewhere but the person responsible is here as well. I'm sure he's not the only one so be careful.
I'm very angry about this because he totally abused the trust of a friend of mine and manipulated her to serve his own selfish ends.
I did think for a long time before posting this here but I'm happy to stand up for what I believe are swinging ethics. It's all about openess and honesty as far as I'm concerned.******

I'm sorry Eagerslut but from what I can see you put the cat amongst the pigeons. If you had left out the bits that I have asterisked in your original post, I think your post would have been taken in context and the rumour mill would now not be running on overdrive.
Well I'm not saying that you may not have a point and with hindsight I might have chosen my words slightly more judiciously to avoid that possibility but what is done is done and I stand by my reasons for posting. There is no need for a witch hunt, and rumours are not truths but gossip and since when has that never been around. Thanks for your comment though.

westerross

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

I have a very long post prepared off-line, which I doubt I'll post now 'cos most of the erudite utterances have been made about respect and trust.
But I've got to say that I think Kiss has a point in that it looks very much like a witch hunt - even if it ain't - only human nature innit.
.

duncanlondon

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Tune that might be interesting to read. cool

Eager has running the thread helped your friend in any way?

EagerSlut

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Quote by duncanlondon
Tune that might be interesting to read.
Eager has running the thread helped your friend in any way?

In the sense that there's been feedback from people who've experienced similar deception, yes, I think it's true to say it has.

Pete_sw

Sex God

0 likes 24 Sep 2006

Firstly to ES, darnned good thread, and very thought provoking. :thumbup:
What follows is not a criticism of your post, although as has been already said by you, perhaps the wording could have been revised because I can see many many people taking it personally, the rumour mill must be in full swing because I NEVER EVER get pmâ€™s about this sort of thing, even during the great SH witch hunt, I had no idea wtf was going on, and I think at the time I was probably the only one, but I have had PMâ€™s about this situation and to be honest, despite that, I still donâ€™t have a clue, dunno

and whatâ€™s more, donâ€™t want to! nuff said on that subject.
What I do take exception to however is thinly disguised comments like Scandal made about generalisation and off topic posts in the cafe, now Scandal you have been on this site for a long time, surely I donâ€™t have to guide you to the description of use of â€˜the cafÃ©â€™ ?
Yes of course we are all in here for casual sex, as was said, this is a swinging site ffs, its all about sex, but, some of us also like to make friends, some of us actually enjoy the banter, the interaction, the social side of the lifestyle.
My question is, if there are people out there who disagree with off topic posting, who disagree with people just bouncing off one another, WTF are you doing in the cafÃ©? The place to be for casual encounters is the LMU or DOGGING forums surely? There are hundreds if not thousands of people who post in those forums regularly who never come near the cafÃ© for that very reason.
In my humble opinion, for someone who has been such an interesting poster, and stalwart of the forums, to suddenly make comments like that is beyond belief and has truly shocked me.
Now to the topic.
Being the male part of a MF couple, I am very aware of the predatory nature of some people, in fact, those of you that remember us as Katy & John will know that we have been through the mill more than once.
The amount of guys that have contacted us pretending to be interested in MMF and been really nice, pretending to respect boundaries, gained our trust over long periods of time, and then sent Caron texts, e-mails, or PMâ€™s saying shit like â€œoh would love a 1 to 1 with you, are you up for itâ€ astounds me, just who the fluck do these guys think they are for a start? We have a stable 28 year marriage and these ppl think they are going to interfere with that? Get a fluckin life ffs.
The whole lifestyle invites predators, its like vultures around a carcass, itâ€™s sad yes, but it will never go away. I will subscribe to the advice given, either be very careful, or rethink your reasons for being here.