Tax Increase on 4X4's Now spireling in to the caravan debate

26 Mar 2006

Quote by Shireen_Mids
But you are assuming that we have additional disposable income to fund these increases...
Some of us work on a tight budget and this sort of thing means that we have to re-evaluate our spending...
Not everyone has a bottomless pit of money you know :roll:

But if things are that tight you can save the extra cash by driving a large vehicle (4X4, sports car, luxury limo) a little slower (perhaps at 60 rather than 70). And it's not an attack on 4X4s - that's just a media portrayal - several 4X4s aren't hit - just the one's with big engines that pump out lots of pollution - as do large limos, sports cars etc.

26 Mar 2006

Quote by martie
But you are assuming that we have additional disposable income to fund these increases...
Some of us work on a tight budget and this sort of thing means that we have to re-evaluate our spending...
Not everyone has a bottomless pit of money you know :roll:

26 Mar 2006

Quote by Steve_Mids
But you are assuming that we have additional disposable income to fund these increases...
Some of us work on a tight budget and this sort of thing means that we have to re-evaluate our spending...
Not everyone has a bottomless pit of money you know :roll:

26 Mar 2006

The new tax band for "gas guzzlers" is band "G".
The VED is (diesel) and (petrol)
It only concerns vehicles registered AFTER 23 March 2006...ie: NEW ones.
Other than that, if your motor was in the previous top tax band, it goes up 25 quid.
Band A, no duty.
Band B, duty reduction of 35 quid
Band C, reduced by 5 quid
Band D, no change
Band E, apparently up 5 quid
Band F, up 25 quid

26 Mar 2006

Thanks jomu mate.
Made me go and do a hunt on Google and this is it from the geegee's mouth >>>>>>>>

This should cool things down a lot lol

very helpfull are DVLA. wink

Phredd

26 Mar 2006

Quote by jomu
The new tax band for "gas guzzlers" is band "G".
The VED is (diesel) and (petrol)
It only concerns vehicles registered AFTER 23 March 2006...ie: NEW ones.
Other than that, if your motor was in the previous top tax band, it goes up 25 quid.
Band A, no duty.
Band B, duty reduction of 35 quid
Band C, reduced by 5 quid
Band D, no change
Band E, apparently up 5 quid
Band F, up 25 quid

Tell me something I didnt already know.... rolleyes

26 Mar 2006

Oh FGS!
look! 4x4s?
stupidly expensive, stupidly polluting, big bloody cars. it has bugger all to do with anything other than the fact that are polluting monsters that in the main have no place on the road? hence the name "off road vehicles!"
my heart bleeds for BMW X5 owners having to pay an extra few bob a week, for the luxury of running some of the most un-environmentally friendly cars on the planet . . .
. . . . . cars that have a negative impact on the rest of us!
not to mention the impact on kids when you run into them on the school run! rolleyes

you want the damn things, all well and good, but some lifestyle choices, that we are all free to make, have to be paid for! :roll:
sorry if this sounds scathing . . . . but it is . . . . kind of?
neil x x x ;)

26 Mar 2006

Neil there is a place within society for vehicle such as 4x4's.... We know because we use one....
Until the government can show us a valid alternative there is no point in slapping taxes on these kind of vehicles just to try and get us to use more eco friendly transport.... rolleyes

Like Steve said earlier, show us a eco friendly vehicle that can tow a 1500cwt caravan that is affordable and we would consider it, until then we will continue to use such a vehicle.
Shireen
xxx

26 Mar 2006

Quote by neilinleeds
Oh FGS!
look! 4x4s?
stupidly expensive, stupidly polluting, big bloody cars. it has bugger all to do with anything other than the fact that are polluting monsters that in the main have no place on the road? hence the name "off road vehicles!"
my heart bleeds for BMW X5 owners having to pay an extra few bob a week, for the luxury of running some of the most un-environmentally friendly cars on the planet . . .
. . . . . cars that have a negative impact on the rest of us!
not to mention the impact on kids when you run into them on the school run!
you want the damn things, all well and good, but some lifestyle choices, that we are all free to make, have to be paid for! :roll:
sorry if this sounds scathing . . . . but it is . . . . kind of?
neil x x x ;)

I drive a 3.6 jag, i am not rich nor do i really give a toss about the planet but the fact is someone may have saved to buy their "gas guzzler" and are living on a shoe string to run it. i know i am but i have a car i've wanted for 25 years and by god i'll keep it no matter what. the road tax should either go back to what it was, the road fund licence and be used to keep roads in good condition( because they are shocking at the mo) or be added to fuel and the road tax scrapped.
jeff

26 Mar 2006

I drive a car that uses less petrol than the ;holier than thou' Toyota Prius electric hybrid... but under the new rules the tax is up from Â£70 to Â£100... where's the sense in that?
High time that the tax disc was replaced with an 'I've actually got insurance' disc.

26 Mar 2006

Quote by Steve_Mids
The new tax band for "gas guzzlers" is band "G".
The VED is (diesel) and (petrol)
It only concerns vehicles registered AFTER 23 March 2006...ie: NEW ones.
Other than that, if your motor was in the previous top tax band, it goes up 25 quid.
Band A, no duty.
Band B, duty reduction of 35 quid
Band C, reduced by 5 quid
Band D, no change
Band E, apparently up 5 quid
Band F, up 25 quid

Tell me something I didnt already know.... rolleyes

I just thought I'd repeat what the dvla site I gave further back said, since some seem on a hysterical mode.
I doubt that a budget is that tight that 25 quid will break the bank, just drive a few miles a day less.
You could always give-up the caravan, buy a smart car (or 1.4 diesel Fiesta) and stay in a hotel.

26 Mar 2006

I drive a 3.6 jag, i am not rich nor do i really give a toss about the planet but the fact is someone may have saved to buy their "gas guzzler" and are living on a shoe string to run it. i know i am but i have a car i've wanted for 25 years and by god i'll keep it no matter what.

precisely my point!
thanks for being soooo concerned with the rest of us, just so you can indulge yourself? why should i sympathise in any way, shape, or form, with YOUR choices, given the consideration you show everyone else???
you really, really WANT to drive it, don't you? well sorry, that's your choice! choices we make have consequences? if you don't like the consequences, choose something else? how is that OUR problem? but it becomes our problem doesn't it? whether you care or not?
sorry . . . but many stereotypes have become sterotypes PRECISELY because they are grounded in fact?
so emmissions are within EU limits? ok . . . so MPG is what? as opposed to a Peugeot 206 say? is it about half? so burning up twice as much fuel puts twice the emissions into our airspace doesn't it? older cars that fail their emmissions test when they go in for MOT are gonna be taken off the road at some point in the very near future, so that's a non-argument?
they are twice as polluting as the rest of those driving cars of a similar age? and those with dual fuel, electric motors, and 1100cc engines by comparison, are comparitively good for the environment, and the economy that is way too reliant on oil? a commodity growing scarcer by the day? we go to war to provide oil for stupidly polluting cars!??? mad

and they have a necessary application? like running 5 kids to school? well in my day, we had things called buses. that could transport about 70 kids in comfort? not sure what happened to them? dunno

and what do i see most of the time when we overtake a huge 4x4 throwing up god knows how much crap behind it on the M62? it has ONE person in it? hogging the road cos they're soooo much safer than the rest of the traffic, that they don't always see, cos they're sat a metre or so higher than the rest of us?
it makes my blood boil when people whinge about the tax hikes they pay on things they have ACTIVELY chosen to run as a lifestyle choice!?
neil x x x ;)

27 Mar 2006

shireen?
you will always find exceptions to the rule? but you know what?
i can drive for 100s of miles down any motorway you care to mention in the country, and you know how many 4x4s i'll see pulling caravans? well i could probably count 'em on the fingers of one hand? excepting Bank Holidays and race weekends, obviously? lol

;) in the grand scheme of things? hardly none at all? dunno

how many 4x4s will i see with a sole occupant? dozens and dozens, if not 100s?
SOME owners genuinely have a need for them . . . . the VAST majority run them cos they think they're trendy!!!
and as i said earlier . . . . we go to war to provide for those owners . . .
. . . . and people DIE! mad

huge apologies if i have no sympathy whatsoever for those who will now have to pay a mere TWO POUNDS A WEEK extra for THAT privelege! if that's all it costs them, well how dare they complain? perhaps they need to have a think about that IMO, before they whinge about an extra 100 quid a year?! rolleyes

neil x x x ;)

27 Mar 2006

Quote by neilinleeds
Oh FGS!
look! 4x4s?
stupidly expensive, stupidly polluting, big bloody cars. it has bugger all to do with anything other than the fact that are polluting monsters that in the main have no place on the road? hence the name "off road vehicles!"

Back to talking bollox already.....Well done.... rolleyes

27 Mar 2006

Quote by jomu
You could always give-up the caravan, buy a smart car (or 1.4 diesel Fiesta) and stay in a hotel.

You related to neilinleeds ????

27 Mar 2006

Right firstly i'd like to say apolagies if i've stirred up a hornets nest but then again the froum is about conversation and airing your views. But i'll have to admit it all seems to be getting a tad vicious. So I think it's about time we all agree to disagree, however i stilll think my first point is valid on how my choice of vehicle is more economical than running 2 or 3 vehicles. Whilst also I can relate to and apriciate steve_mids view of caravans and 4x4 due to the fact that for 3 months of the year they are the main stay of my buisness when it comes to servicing them and such, but more so that I myself and my father have both owned them and taken them as far away on holiday as Monaco, Italy, Spain and neadless to say France but whilst still enjoying weekend breaks with them in this country. My point is no matter what your view on caravans or a persons choice of car it's being an indivisual that makes us all differant. Whilst some may prefer a strictly planned couple of weeks in spain via your local travel agent, I myself and many others have for a long time prefered to do the spur of the moment aproach. Without this turning into the caravan apriciation thread i'll just say this. After a long week at work who can beat coming home and just deciding to throw some clothes in the caravan and go away for a few days biggrin

27 Mar 2006

Quote by sheddy
. Without this turning into the caravan apriciation thread i'll just say this. After a long week at work who can beat coming home and just deciding to throw some clothes in the caravan and go away for a few days

Thats nice to do as well....
Ours goes on pre arranged outings every weekend from Easter till the end of September...
So as you say.....Running another vehicle during the week just aint an option.

27 Mar 2006

As is my way, I have come up with a solution to solve the problem with the Ozone layer that should negate the need for increased tax.
I read somewhere that a major contributing factor is bovine gas. Now if we can send a man to the moon, surely it cannot be beyond the wit of mankind to ensure that all cows arses are fitted with catalytic converters?

27 Mar 2006

neilin leeds, sorry, it may have sounded like i was getting at you. I wasn't, it's just you used an argument that i've heard loads of times. I can't get a bus to work and i work daft shifts any way so i need a car that is capable of starting what ever the conditions and getting me to work in comfort. I also work bloody hard and pay a shit load of income tax so why should the goverment get any more of my money?

27 Mar 2006

Quote by jomu
You could always give-up the caravan, buy a smart car (or 1.4 diesel Fiesta) and stay in a hotel.

Hhhmmm..... Lets tot this up.....
Easter through to October the caravan goes out 95% of weekends.... 2 adults and 2 children staying in a hotel/B&B..... Yeah really good idea rolleyes

The caravan isn't just somewhere to rest our heads overnight, it is somewhere that the kids and I can go to during the day and shelter from the rain etc, make drinks/food and rest. Also bear in mind that many of the venues we go to dont have any hotels/B&B's nearby.... Also the caravan means that we can go on holiday...

Quote by neilinleeds
shireen?
you will always find exceptions to the rule? but you know what?
i can drive for 100s of miles down any motorway you care to mention in the country, and you know how many 4x4s i'll see pulling caravans? well i could probably count 'em on the fingers of one hand? excepting Bank Holidays and race weekends, obviously? ;) in the grand scheme of things? hardly none at all?

How many times do I have to repeat myself?? :doh: The fucking caravan weighs 1500kgs.... It needs a fucking big 4x4 to pull it!!!!!!...... :roll:
banghead

The caravan affords the kids and I the luxury of seeing Steve at weekends and means I actually get a social life.... There are far more damaging things to the ozone layer/environment but they think that by trying to get drivers to get smaller cars they will solve the problem.... Like fuck they will :roll:
I will also point out that if the government had thought to get off it's fat backside and do something years ago like other countries (USA and Australia to name but 2) then there wouldn't be the need to use scare monger tactics :roll: Australia banned CFC's 15 years before the UK did.... 15 years!!!!!!.....

Quote by neilinleeds
and as i said earlier . . . . we go to war to provide for those owners . . .
. . . . and people DIE!

I dont have a clue what this has to do with the arguement at all :dunno:
Shireen

27 Mar 2006

Quote by Happy Cats
As is my way, I have come up with a solution to solve the problem with the Ozone layer that should negate the need for increased tax.
I read somewhere that a major contributing factor is bovine gas. Now if we can send a man to the moon, surely it cannot be beyond the wit of mankind to ensure that all cows arses are fitted with catalytic converters?

Tis is much more like the tone we like to see at SH Towers rotflmao

:thumbup:

27 Mar 2006

got rid of our monster V6 job last year.......
bought an escort 1.6 and had a week all inclusive just the 2 of us , on the savings in petrol etc
sure...the poor thing struggles and has been known 2 `bottom out` on speed bumps when we got all our camping gear & the kids on board.........
but...............
2`s

27 Mar 2006

Quote by neilinleeds
they are twice as polluting as the rest of those driving cars of a similar age? and those with dual fuel, electric motors, and 1100cc engines by comparison, are comparitively good for the environment
neil x x x ;)

I agree with most of what you say... But I'd be interested to know just how efficent an electric motor is and how much of that electricity is generated at the expense of a more inefficent use of fuel... or in the case of full electric cars and trams and trains how much polution is created by the powerstations and how much of that electricity is wasted/lost transfering it to the trains/trams/cars when compaired to said transport generating the waste its self and if it is "cleaner" or only reduces the local polution at the expense of greater polution some miles outside of a city.
Mind you... from what I can gather watching the "megga" series by Chris Barry its more effecient to have a desiel generator create electricity which then powers an electric motor (or might have been to power/tourque reasons) as thats what they do with all the big powerd machines.... and I'm guessing the desiel electric motor trains... so perhaps we need to do something similar with cars?

27 Mar 2006

I'll stick with my trusty Golf diesel. It's old but it gets me from A to B with the minimum amount of fuss ( other drivers excluded of course ! ) and I'm quids in with my expenses ! :thumbup: innocent

28 Mar 2006

Quote by neilinleeds
shireen?
you will always find exceptions to the rule? but you know what?
i can drive for 100s of miles down any motorway you care to mention in the country, and you know how many 4x4s i'll see pulling caravans? well i could probably count 'em on the fingers of one hand? excepting Bank Holidays and race weekends, obviously? ;) in the grand scheme of things? hardly none at all?
how many 4x4s will i see with a sole occupant? dozens and dozens, if not 100s?
SOME owners genuinely have a need for them . . . . the VAST majority run them cos they think they're trendy!!!
and as i said earlier . . . . we go to war to provide for those owners . . .
. . . . and people DIE!
huge apologies if i have no sympathy whatsoever for those who will now have to pay a mere TWO POUNDS A WEEK extra for THAT privelege! if that's all it costs them, well how dare they complain? perhaps they need to have a think about that IMO, before they whinge about an extra 100 quid a year?!
neil x x x ;)

I do not see why a 4x4 is needed to pull a caravan. If anyone can prove it is then please do so.

28 Mar 2006

One of the next law's to come from the powers that be will be that a tow vehicle has to be a minimum of 25% heavier than the trailer or caravan you are towing..
I f your caravan is 1500kg then show me a car that can tow it that isn't either a 4x4 or mpv or large saloon car.
it's not about "chelsea tractors" its about towing safley on the road...
just a thought to all those complaining about pollution.. next time you buy your fruit and veg, look on the lable and see where it's been flown in from..!! i think i would rather run a 4x4 than a airbus.....if everyone bought local seasonall fruit and veg, we could all drive 4x4's and not worry...
raint over...lol

28 Mar 2006

Quote by
shireen?
you will always find exceptions to the rule? but you know what?
i can drive for 100s of miles down any motorway you care to mention in the country, and you know how many 4x4s i'll see pulling caravans? well i could probably count 'em on the fingers of one hand? excepting Bank Holidays and race weekends, obviously? ;) in the grand scheme of things? hardly none at all?
how many 4x4s will i see with a sole occupant? dozens and dozens, if not 100s?
SOME owners genuinely have a need for them . . . . the VAST majority run them cos they think they're trendy!!!
and as i said earlier . . . . we go to war to provide for those owners . . .
. . . . and people DIE!
huge apologies if i have no sympathy whatsoever for those who will now have to pay a mere TWO POUNDS A WEEK extra for THAT privelege! if that's all it costs them, well how dare they complain? perhaps they need to have a think about that IMO, before they whinge about an extra 100 quid a year?!
neil x x x ;)

I do not see why a 4x4 is needed to pull a caravan. If anyone can prove it is then please do so.
The weight of the caravan is 1500kg....
Weight of the average medium saloon car is 1650kg..
What is being towed is almost as heavy as what is towing.....
Not the safest way to do things...
Recomended fact is that caravan weighs no more than 85% of towing vehicle...
With my 4x4 weighing almost 2000kg is obviously going to be far safer..
Also most of our pitches are in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere so a 2 wheel drive saloon wont get very far across a field with 1500kg of caravan on its back in a wet muddy field now will it..

28 Mar 2006

Quote by Steve_Mids
The weight of the caravan is 1500kg....
Weight of the average medium saloon car is 1650kg..
What is being towed is almost as heavy as what is towing.....
Not the safest way to do things...
Recomended fact is that caravan weighs no more than 85% of towing vehicle...
With my 4x4 weighing almost 2000kg is obviously going to be far safer..
Also most of our pitches are in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere so a 2 wheel drive saloon wont get very far across a field with 1500kg of caravan on its back in a wet muddy field now will it..

And can you imagine the comments when you say sod to the safety aspect, I will tow the van with a saloon car, I will put myself, my children and others in danger, I will increase my impact on the emissions by getting this saloon car to tow at above its capability so it is puffing out smoke, and when I have an accident some bright spark will say "why didnt you get a 4x4"
We do tow with a normal car but only because our caravan is only 1300kg and the car is 1550kg, so it does have the additional power and weight to get out of difficulties should someone decide to over take too close and too fast (a lot of caravan accidents are caused by other irresponsible drivers, not the caravan or the caravan driver).
We have always had 4x4's because of the safety aspect, nothing at all to do with the 'vainity' aspect. Yes we use more fuel, yes we pay over Â£500 a year to insure the caravan, Â£150 service, and yes we spend an absolute fortune in this country during holidays and weekends away not ocunting the Â£17,000 to BRITISH industry when we bought the bloody thing. No one seems to think about the good that this is doing for the brittish ecconomy, surely a lot of 4x4 (aka caravan owners) already pay more than their fair share of tax to the government and to the ecconomy!

28 Mar 2006

Quote by Naughty Wigan Couple
And can you imagine the comments when you say sod to the safety aspect, I will tow the van with a saloon car, I will put myself, my children and others in danger, I will increase my impact on the emissions by getting this saloon car to tow at above its capability so it is puffing out smoke, and when I have an accident some bright spark will say "why didnt you get a 4x4"
We do tow with a normal car but only because our caravan is only 1300kg and the car is 1550kg, so it does have the additional power and weight to get out of difficulties should someone decide to over take too close and too fast (a lot of caravan accidents are caused by other irresponsible drivers, not the caravan or the caravan driver).
We have always had 4x4's because of the safety aspect, nothing at all to do with the 'vainity' aspect. Yes we use more fuel, yes we pay over Â£500 a year to insure the caravan, Â£150 service, and yes we spend an absolute fortune in this country during holidays and weekends away not ocunting the Â£17,000 to BRITISH industry when we bought the bloody thing. No one seems to think about the good that this is doing for the brittish ecconomy, surely a lot of 4x4 (aka caravan owners) already pay more than their fair share of tax to the government and to the ecconomy!

:thumbup:

28 Mar 2006

Quote by Naughty Wigan Couple
We have always had 4x4's because of the safety aspect, nothing at all to do with the 'vainity' aspect. Yes we use more fuel, yes we pay over Â£500 a year to insure the caravan, Â£150 service, and yes we spend an absolute fortune in this country during holidays and weekends away not ocunting the Â£17,000 to BRITISH industry when we bought the bloody thing. No one seems to think about the good that this is doing for the brittish ecconomy, surely a lot of 4x4 (aka caravan owners) already pay more than their fair share of tax to the government and to the ecconomy!

Can you explain to me how you are paying more than your fair share already please, I think I'm misunderstanding you.
Ta
Jas
XXX